Some people probably shouldn't have a CCW permit

[jcann]

I live in a state that is very gun friendly and we have the option to carry open or concealed which I take advantage of. Some of us who do carry in my state are pretty damn stupid.

Case in point, my son and I were in a battery store Saturday morning to get a new battery for his lap top. An older man and his wife come in and the old gentleman pulls his Glock out from his holster and asks the store clerk if he has a battery that will work for his sure fire light that’s attached to it. You can imagine what was going through my mind when I saw him pull his pistol.

 

[kraigWY]

I agree some people shouldn't have CCWs but what scares me more is WHO gets to decide.

 

[WxWatcher]

I was at Sam's Club the other weekend. I saw a guy (prob. late 40's) wearing a belt and holster made for cowboy action shooting....leather, loops around the belt for individual cartridges....and was carrying some chrome plated POS semi-auto 9mm in it. Every step I could see that gun bounce and shake in the holster it was so ill-fitting. And the icing on the cake was 9mm ammo in the loops around the belt. I REALLY wanted to talk to him about weapon retention in holsters but had my 2 year old son with me and as I turned to keep my son from wandering off I lost sight of the guy. Plus if he decided to be a dick, I didn't want that to be in front of my son.

 

[remiglockoholic]

I was at a local gun store a few years back and this gun had two glocks "concealed" with 33rd mags in each. I thought to myself by the time he pulls one much less both whoever he's "protecting" himself from would have infused his body with lead.

 

[SMM123]

I live in a state that is very gun friendly and we have the option to carry open or concealed which I take advantage of. Some of us who do carry in my state are pretty damn stupid.

Case in point, my son and I were in a battery store Saturday morning to get a new battery for his lap top. An older man and his wife come in and the old gentleman pulls his Glock out from his holster and asks the store clerk if he has a battery that will work for his sure fire light that’s attached to it. You can imagine what was going through my mind when I saw him pull his pistol.

I think that if more people were not so paranoid about guns, such an innocent display of a firearm, and subsequent legitimate request for help, would not be viewed in such dim regard. The state may be gun friendly, but what about the people being friendly about guns?

 

[siscoe308]

In my open carry state (Wyoming) it is common to see people exercising the right. I always get a chuckle at the people you see carrying. Attitude and Demeanor make a huge difference. I.E. in the local Walmart, we pasted two guys with handguns, the first was a mid 40's well dressed rancher type with the full-sized 1911. The second a 30's guy in a dirty Hanes Tshirt with a mid sized Sig. The GF (who has her Kimber Solo in her purse 24/7) commented on that how the white T-shirt guy made her uncomfortable. I asked if she felt the same about the rancher, she hadn't noticed. Same store, similar sized weapons carried in exact same spot, one made her think twice and the other past by without drawing attention. Interesting that one screams 'I HAVE A GUN' and the other is invisible.

 

[Gunga]

I was in the Cracker Barrel restaurant after church yesterday when a guy walked to his table with an OWB holstered Glock on his right hip. No one seemed to care. This is in north Georgia. The only person that was watching the guy as he took his seat was the restaurant manager and I think he was just worried someone coming off of the interstate that is from out of our area would make a fuss.

 

[jcann]

I think that if more people were not so paranoid about guns, such an innocent display of a firearm, and subsequent legitimate request for help, would not be viewed in such dim regard. The state may be gun friendly, but what about the people being friendly about guns?

I’m not paranoid of firearms, never have been. It doesn’t bother me to see someone openly carrying either. What does make me nervous is some jerk pulling his pistol in a “battery store” to ask for a battery for his surefire light. If he would have done it in a gun store I probably would not have cared. He probably doesn't know he was in violation of state CCW law when he did so and my first instinct was to place my hand on my firearm and protect my son.

A legitimate request one would think would be to remove the surefire light before you come into the store and ask for help. That doesn't scare the clerk, the customers, or paint gun owners in a bad light.

 

[eli polite]

It all about how people think. Some one with common sense would have taken the battery out in the car so there would be no need to draw a fire arm in a store that does not specialize in sell such things.. How often do you think the cleark in the store has a guy drawing a hand gun while aproching the counter? The last time he was robbed!

 

[HD-Ghost]

I have this issue come up as a CCW instructor. Since I don't do this for a living, I can be selective in whom goes thru my classes. But our State sets up requirements, and as long as a paying customer meets these, they are qualified and most instructors will take their money. Unfortunately, common sense is no longer common.

 

[buggsb]

I think that if more people were not so paranoid about guns, such an innocent display of a firearm, and subsequent legitimate request for help, would not be viewed in such dim regard. The state may be gun friendly, but what about the people being friendly about guns?

Interesting point. If he handled it safely, didn't point it at anyone, kept his finger off the trigger, and possibly informed the clerk of his intentions prior to drawing, then there should have been no issue. Of course it would have been more polite to just bring in the light, however SMM123's point that the anti's have left us so uptight and paranoid that we're starting to think like them a bit.

 

[SMM123]

I’m not paranoid of firearms, never have been. It doesn’t bother me to see someone openly carrying either. What does make me nervous is some jerk pulling his pistol in a “battery store” to ask for a battery for his surefire light. If he would have done it in a gun store I probably would not have cared. He probably doesn't know he was in violation of state CCW law when he did so and my first instinct was to place my hand on my firearm and protect my son.

A legitimate request one would think would be to remove the surefire light before you come into the store and ask for help. That doesn't scare the clerk, the customers, or paint gun owners in a bad light.

He is only seen as a jerk because we have grown accustomed things like this not happening. Your defensive "instinct" is proof of this phenomenon.

As for being "in violation of state CCW law," we should all bow to the all powerful state and their restrictions upon our Natural Born Rights to follow their rules instead of those granted to us by birth and protected by the Constitution. But hey, "shall not be infringed" obviously means something entirely different, as when a cop tried to convince me that I could not exercise my Rights (carrying and displaying a rifle) on private property, because "it scares people." Yes, "shall not be infringed" now means "we will infringe whenever we feel like it, except when we don't, and there is nothing you can do about it because we have brainwashed most everyone and they agree with us, because that's democracy - two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner - and if you don't like it, we'll infringe on more of your Rights until you submit or die."

So yes, we should all submit to something less than mediocrity when exercising our Natural Born Rights, because it scares people. However for me, I choose option 2. I will agree that some people should not have a CCW permit; no one should have a CCW permit since it is obviously unconstitutional, with or without a ruling from the supreme beings in DC.

 

[skeeterIII]

Anyone who shoots at roads signs not knowing if a car is about to come around the bent or not knowing where the round will go makes me almost in favor of gun control. There are some people who are just too stupid to own a gun. I never seem to see them going this which is a good thing.

 

[SMM123]

Anyone who shoots at roads signs not knowing if a car is about to come around the bent or not knowing where the round will go makes me almost in favor of gun control. There are some people who are just too stupid to own a gun. I never seem to see them going this which is a good thing.

I sometimes wonder how our country even made it through the first 150 years when there was ZERO gun control. How did the average citizen make it through any given day knowing that anyone could own, carry, and use a gun? It had to have been mentally exhausting to live under such a constant threat of dying at the hand of some madman doing random horse-by-shooting through the neighborhoods.

Everyone is obviously entitled to their own asinine thoughts, but if I were going to institute gun control, it would only be on those people who were for gun control. That goes the same for any types of controls a person thinks should be restricted - just restrict yourself and leave the rest of us alone. Otherwise, get accustomed to living life and realize that you are far more likely to die from a car accident, cancer, heart disease, or by falling than a gun shot wound.

Check yourselves. We live in the land of the free, and the home of the brave. Well, at least I try to live as free as I can, and I am brave enough not to worry about an average citizen shooting me, even if he/she is armed and no smarter than a bag of hammers.

 

[KYpatriot]

NO ONE should have a ccw permit.

I guess we need a separate pocket for our free speech card, and our right to assemble card, and don't even think of attending a church without your religion card (assuming of course you passed your tolerance training first).

If you don't want to get searched for no reason make sure you have paid for a 4th amendment warrants required card.

If you do get charged with a crime you better hope you have applied for and been granted your 5th Amendment privileges card, otherwise a judge can summarily pass judgement and sentence you upon a mere accusation, you will be required to give evidence against yourself. Also don't forget that without your 5th amendment license the government can take any of your property at anytime with no compensation.

Of course they may not even bother with a judge if you don't have proof of your 6th amendment certification. The police can just arrest you and you never see the light of day again, or they could export your case from Nebraska to California where they have that judge they really like there.

If you think a trial by jury of your peers is more fair than a single man passing sentence, then I highly recommend a 7th amendment permit. Just take the course, pass the test, and pay the fee.

Then again assuming they even bother with convicting you of a crime, you better hope your yearly 8th amendment privileges certification has been renewed otherwise you could be flogged forty lashes with a cat-o-nine tails and fined one million dollars for jaywalking.

Finally none of that may matter if you haven't paid a fee to invoke your 9th and 10th amendment privileges, otherwise all matters not pertaining to the previous permitting process mentioned in the previous eight amendments will be handled in accordance with the sole discretion and total authority of the federal government.

 

[hondo1312]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
One of the best posts I've ever read on any forum. When I get to my desktop, I'm "liking" it.

Thank you, KYpatriot.

 

[Strykervet]

CCW is "shall issue" here in WA and it's great because I don't have to beg, find a radical judge or be a good 'ole boy. I've only seen a couple public fuck ups. Generally they'll get called out, somebody will let 'em know that leaving a pistol on a table in front of a Starbucks by the front door while reading a paper is bordering brandishing, if not brandishing itself. Or that no, that open carrying with no retention in public, while legal, isn't a good idea. Be a good neighbor, in other words! Don't be mean, just try to unfuck problems or your neighbor when you see 'em and when you can. It's being a good citizen.

 

[JaysonF]

I open carry everywhere and no one has ever said anything. I've noticed a second look by some people, but there's never been any issues. I don't dress like I'm straight out of a trailer park though, so that might have something to do with it. I've seen scummy open carry guys, and every one of them have worn those "universal holsters" made of nylon. The ones that hold a mag in front of the gun. Even I second look that, so I'm sure uncomfortable people must.
I've never seen any of the open carry people with rifles though.
My phantom holster is in the mail right meow...

 

[RedBull6]

My CHL expired before I had a chance to renew it, which forced me to go through the class again. Even though I qualified to skip the "weapon proficiency" portion due to military training, I decided to check out the private range. Who passes up some trigger time, right? 10 shooters on the line at a time shooting from single digit yards at a man size target. There was a woman two lanes from me, small framed and aproximately 60 years old. She was there with her husband. Both had high dollar pistols that looked brand new, but both appeared uncomfortable with them. She was shooting a compact 1911 .45. At 7 yards, she could not keep her rounds on the scoring part of the target, and was actually missing the paper altogether. Horrible/non existant grip, and she visually feared the recoil every time she snapped the trigger. I was concerned for my safety and finished the stages, unloaded and made safe and stepped back from the firing line, just to keep an eye on her. She passed and she is now a card carrying CHL holder.

Lesson learned--if my CHL expires again, skip the "proficiency" portion and send in my range score card instead.

 

[17874]

My CHL expired before I had a chance to renew it, which forced me to go through the class again. Even though I qualified to skip the "weapon proficiency" portion due to military training, I decided to check out the private range. Who passes up some trigger time, right? 10 shooters on the line at a time shooting from single digit yards at a man size target. There was a woman two lanes from me, small framed and aproximately 60 years old. She was there with her husband. Both had high dollar pistols that looked brand new, but both appeared uncomfortable with them. She was shooting a compact 1911 .45. At 7 yards, she could not keep her rounds on the scoring part of the target, and was actually missing the paper altogether. Horrible/non existant grip, and she visually feared the recoil every time she snapped the trigger. I was concerned for my safety and finished the stages, unloaded and made safe and stepped back from the firing line, just to keep an eye on her. She passed and she is now a card carrying CHL holder.

Lesson learned--if my CHL expires again, skip the "proficiency" portion and send in my range score card instead.

Sad part is a decent instructor could fix that relatively fast. She was a safety issue on the line and they should have at the very least fixed her grip. Then maybe worked on trigger control.

 

[RedBull6]

Sad part is a decent instructor could fix that relatively fast. She was a safety issue on the line and they should have at the very least fixed her grip. Then maybe worked on trigger control.

Correct and I thought about that at the time, however this was not really an "instructional" course. It was a "proficiency/qualifying" course. For all I know the other 6 folks I was not keeping an eye on were the same or worse, keeping the two instructors busy.

 

[REPRFZJ80]

He is only seen as a jerk because we have grown accustomed things like this not happening.........

NO ONE should have a ccw permit.

I guess we need a separate pocket for our free speech card, and our right to assemble card, and don't even think of attending a church without your religion card (assuming of course you passed your tolerance training first)........

Both spot freaking on posts. Very well said.

I was just having a very similar conversation on a local (Utah) forum about open carrying. I swear the Cali / New York thought processes are infecting more and more every day. It is truly sad.
Seems to be that most are okay with inalienable actually meaning, while camping, alone at home, or where no one might be made "uncomfortable"...

Its like calling our great nation a democracy. Or saying "well the SCOTUS ruled"..... Makes my eyes cross.... But I guess people are more interested in the latest Honey Boo Boo...

I’m not paranoid of firearms, never have been. It doesn’t bother me to see someone openly carrying....

and my first instinct was to place my hand on my firearm and protect my son.

Based on your reaction it seems like you are paranoid of them.... Also maybe you should not throw stones in that glass house of yours. You getting all twitchy and ready to draw down on someone who was merely getting batteries.... Shit man. You were far more of a danger to those around you then the guy buying batteries.....

 

[JackRipper]

Lucky bastards. Here, in California, we don't have open carry and conceal carry is a pain in the ass to get and only a selective few. I would love to GTFO of this damn state but I can't afford to move at the moment.

 

[jcann]

He is only seen as a jerk because we have grown accustomed things like this not happening. Your defensive "instinct" is proof of this phenomenon.

No, my defensive instinct is not derived by this. It’s derived from my belief that the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Protected by the Constitution

Here lies the folly to your “protected by the Constitution”, natural rights that are granted and codified by man on a piece of paper are no longer “natural rights” because this would imply they can also be revoked and under such circumstances they would be reduced to privileges. I think we can all agree this is slowly happening.

Natural rights (Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness) as the framers saw it are derived by their Creator. Anything derived by their Creator presupposes a Creator and are not an instrument of man but the Creator. Therefore one must believe in a Creator to hold such faith to Natural Rights. If not, Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness boils down to nothing more than survival of the fittest which in turn brings laws and regulations.

Mods, if this is in violations to standing rules of this forum, I stand convicted to accept my punishment. Furthermore I agreed and willfully accepted to have my First Amendment rights restricted in part as to privileges on this forum.

 

[SMM123]

No, my defensive instinct is not derived by this. It’s derived from my belief that the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked: who can know it?



Here lies the folly to your “protected by the Constitution”, natural rights that are granted and codified by man on a piece of paper are no longer “natural rights” because this would imply they can also be revoked and under such circumstances they would be reduced to privileges. I think we can all agree this is slowly happening.

Natural rights (Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness) as the framers saw it are derived by their Creator. Anything derived by their Creator presupposes a Creator and are not an instrument of man but the Creator. Therefore one must believe in a Creator to hold such faith to Natural Rights. If not, Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness boils down to nothing more than survival of the fittest which in turn brings laws and regulations.

Mods, if this is in violations to standing rules of this forum, I stand convicted to accept my punishment. Furthermore I agreed and willfully accepted to have my First Amendment rights restricted in part as to privileges on this forum.

My intent was not to turn this into a political discussion. Politics are nothing more than tyranny by majority vote, and that is not something for which I approve.

My overall point was that we, as gun advocates, cannot ever vilify another gun owner, even if they are stupid, incapable, or otherwise scary looking. As with anything in life, we must live knowing that danger lurks around every corner, and as righteous individuals we are each ultimately responsible for our own well being, and that of our children. We should attempt, when prudent, to educate those who are obviously having difficulty, and realize that most will never take our advice.

But to openly suggest that a person should not be allowed to keep and carry simply because that person makes us uncomfortable is fraught with peril. People drive their cars dangerously millions of times per day, yet we do not seek to have them condemned. We know it is fact, and will continue to be fact so long as cars and drivers exist. We naturally drive more defensively, but carry on with our day without railing about their stupidity. It should be the same with firearms, especially considering you are exponentially more likely to die from an idiot driver than an idiot gun owner. Idiots exist - they drive cars, work with tools, run heavy equipment, raise children, and carry firearms. We should simply move on and not focus on the firearm any more than anything else.

 

[MLC]

I was at a party a couple years ago and the hostess found out that a guest was carrying concealed.
Both were drunk.
I didn't know about it until a 40S&W went off 15' behind me.
She'd convinced him to shoot a potted plant along their fence.
Guests were parked behind the fence and there was a driveway and a house on the other side of the cars.
I could care less about contemporary derivations of the second amendment when someone is being reckless with firearms.

 

[Sensai]

"Some people probably shouldn't have a CCW permit "

I agree, but, the "how to fix it" is the question. Some people say "more control, more control, more control". Well consider something that we have a great deal of control over, vehicle ownership and operation. We require training, testing, registration and licensing for vehicles. How's that working out? Well, we lose thousands of lives and millions of dollars each year to vehicle "accidents". Accidents, that's the catch all phrase that we use to include any happening involving vehicles. It matters not that a great many are committed by operators who are incapacitated by drugs, including alcohol. A large number are "road rage" incedents. An increasing number are actual "homicde by vehicle". But they're all "accidents". I suppose that we should just start calling any and every occurance of a bad nature envolving firearms an "accident". I'm not implying that governmental control of vehicles actually causes all this death and mayhem. It just doesn't appear that it serves any purpose other than revenue collection. What in the blue blazes makes anyone think that tighter control of firearms will do anything more for firearms "accidents" than it does for vehicle "accidents". Maybe if we just woke up and realized that everyone doesn't have the best intentions, some people are actually not nice. Allow the average person to protect themselves from the miscreants, and either put the bad guys behind bars or just get rid of them. That's a topic for another time, though.

 

[KYpatriot]

MLC the point is another regulation or law does not stop stupidity and never will. Your party guest has nothing to do with the Second Amendment. His actions were reckless and unlawful whether we have CCW or not.