Someone set me straight on barrels

[lwnemesis]

I had to rush and buy a AR-10 last year before a law took effect and got myself an Aero M5E1 18" in .308 because I could not find or afford something better.

It came with a BA 18" 4150 CMV heavy profile barrel. I still have not taken the gun out to the range to try it. While fondling the gun and playing with it I decided that I don't like the balance of the rifle and the weight of the barrel. Its 52.5oz. This led me to start researching and looking at different lighter barrels. Then I started looking at other threads on the accuracy of BA barrels and started wondering if I should get something better. I am currently looking at a Criterion 18" Hybrid barrel. The barrel has to be .750 journal size and rifle length gas so that I can reuse the existing gas block and tube.

https://criterionbarrels.com/products/large-frame-ar/m118lr-308-win-7-62x51-nato/dpms-pattern-308-hybrid-barrel-rifle-gas-nitride/?v=7516fd43adaa

My primary goals are to reduce the weight, the Criterion is 12oz lighter, and improve accuracy to something like a DMR vs just a battle rifle. So my question is this. Having never shot the rifle am I being dumb in wanting something better? The gun is already at 14lbs+ with scope.

 

[_Windrider_]

Shoot it with the barrel you got and see how it does before you go spending money on something you may not need

 

[WasNH4X]

If it were mine...... I'd clean barrel , buy a box each of 168 & 175 Fed. Gold medal Match. Group a couple 5 rd groups of each bullet, see how it shoots / groups. Being new.... I'd clean barrel after each 5rd group . It's yo cat ,skin it as you see fit.

 

[Ernest 5.56]

It would be good to find out what you have before making changes.

As far as the weight it depends on your use case for the rifle.

What scope and furniture do you have?

 

[Runnineh]

Shoot it until you know it's garbage. BA has a win some/lose some rep. Put a couple hundred rounds through it to make sure. No reason to spend on another barrel without knowing if it's bad. Also, what are you looking for realistically? Minute of man or fly's wings. If it's the latter, you already chose poorly, don't dump more into it.
That said, when it comes down to it, build what you want if it makes you happy.

 

[lwnemesis]

I know I chose poorly as far as accuracy is concerned but the tight timeframe and the lack of funds did not allow for anything better at the time.

The rifle has a Burris XTR III 3.3-18 on it, Magpul SL stock and a Wilson Combat TTU single stage trigger. Also added a RifleSpeed Adjustable gas block since I will be shooting suppressed too.
I don't need it to be super accurate but somewhere around 1MOA would be fine. I knew what I was getting into when I bought it and don't expect a miracle. That why I mention DMR accuracy and not battle rifle accuracy. So if I get 1.5 MOA out of it I could live with it but would rather get closer to 1MOA. Doubt I would dip below 1MOA.

 

[ut755ln]

I know I chose poorly as far as accuracy is concerned but the tight timeframe and the lack of funds did not allow for anything better at the time.

The rifle has a Burris XTR III 3.3-18 on it, Magpul SL stock and a Wilson Combat TTU single stage trigger. Also added a RifleSpeed Adjustable gas block since I will be shooting suppressed too.
I don't need it to be super accurate but somewhere around 1MOA would be fine. I knew what I was getting into when I bought it and don't expect a miracle. That why I mention DMR accuracy and not battle rifle accuracy. So if I get 1.5 MOA out of it I could live with it but would rather get closer to 1MOA. Doubt I would dip below 1MOA.

Just my opinion but 1 MOA is super accurate. It is effectively hitting a 10 inch circle at one thousand yards.

 

[lwnemesis]

Just my opinion but 1 MOA is super accurate. It is effectively hitting a 10 inch circle at one thousand yards.

So you think my expectations are bit too high? What would you expect an Aero M5 to shoot out of the box? 2-3MOA?

 

[Ronws]

If it were mine...... I'd clean barrel , buy a box each of 168 & 175 Fed. Gold medal Match. Group a couple 5 rd groups of each bullet, see how it shoots / groups. Being new.... I'd clean barrel after each 5rd group . It's yo cat ,skin it as you see fit.

I have a Windham Weaponry R16SFST-308 with the 4150M barrel and I have been pleased with its accuracy and it seems to like the 168 gr (of another brand besides Federal.)

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I had to rush and buy a AR-10 last year before a law took effect and got myself an Aero M5E1 18" in .308 because I could not find or afford something better.

It came with a BA 18" 4150 CMV heavy profile barrel. I still have not taken the gun out to the range to try it. While fondling the gun and playing with it I decided that I don't like the balance of the rifle and the weight of the barrel. Its 52.5oz. This led me to start researching and looking at different lighter barrels. Then I started looking at other threads on the accuracy of BA barrels and started wondering if I should get something better. I am currently looking at a Criterion 18" Hybrid barrel. The barrel has to be .750 journal size and rifle length gas so that I can reuse the existing gas block and tube.

https://criterionbarrels.com/products/large-frame-ar/m118lr-308-win-7-62x51-nato/dpms-pattern-308-hybrid-barrel-rifle-gas-nitride/?v=7516fd43adaa

My primary goals are to reduce the weight, the Criterion is 12oz lighter, and improve accuracy to something like a DMR vs just a battle rifle. So my question is this. Having never shot the rifle am I being dumb in wanting something better? The gun is already at 14lbs+ with scope.

FWIW, that Criterion barrel is 2lb 6.50z, not 2.65lb. The 18" is only 2oz heavier than the same 16".

 

[Coffee_and_Pipes]

If you’re just shooting it from the bench or prone, that weight isn’t going to hurt you. If you find yourself carrying it around all the time, or you want a run-and-gun setup, it might be a different story.

Since you probably wouldn’t get much money from pulling the barrel and selling it, you might as well shoot it and see if you even like shooting the rifle. Some people don’t enjoy shooting large frame semis, so it might be worth exploring before you commit to spending more money on it.

 

[lwnemesis]

Good point. Unfortunately I am stuck with the rifle as WA state laws wouldn't allow me to buy any new semis. They have those "evil" features that make the bullets fly faster

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Good point. Unfortunately I am stuck with the rifle as WA state laws would allow me to buy any semis. They have those "evil" features that make the bullets fly faster

Buy the Criterion and don't spend one second trying to find out if the BA shoots.

 

[Coffee_and_Pipes]

If this is the only one you can have, then sure, get a Bartlein in the caliber, length, and profile that you like. Part of my thinking, and I probably didn’t make it clear, is that shooting the rifle as-is will help you start to form an opinion of what you like.

In the meantime, do a little updating on the résumé, and start thinking about less restrictive places to live. If it’s the Starbucks that’s keeping you in the area, they’ve expanded a little in the last few years.

 

[MK20]

Pull the BA and sell it.

Buy the 18" criterion.

Move on with life.

 

[Ronws]

Good point. Unfortunately I am stuck with the rifle as WA state laws would allow me to buy any semis. They have those "evil" features that make the bullets fly faster

Good thing you don't have a 9 mm. That will blow a lung right out of the body.

 

[ironpony52]

Shoot it it maybe very accurate, you will not know until you do. I had a .357 magnum revolver the was supposed to be a piece of crap. The one I got I could hit a quarter at 25 yards, super accurate.
Shoot it first.

 

[Ronws]

Shoot it it maybe very accurate, you will not know until you do. I had a .357 magnum revolver the was supposed to be a piece of crap. The one I got I could hit a quarter at 25 yards, super accurate.
Shoot it first.

Reminds of me a state firearm commission I had to do in 1984 (carrying a firearm on duty in uniform.) S&W Model 19 K Frame .357 Magnum with nickel plating and ivory oversized grips for my big hands. .38 Special 127 gr pills. I shot a 145/150 in 30 rounds.

That was a sweet gun, it made about 5 ragged holes in the IPSC at 50 feet. So, while shooter fundamentals are paramount, a quality tool helps so much more.

 

[AccuSol-ERN]

If you can drive an ar10 pretty good, I have seen some dogshit barreled ones shoot surprising well. As a matter of fact I ended up with 3 PSA (one 6.5creed and two 308win) and all of them shoot .75 or under with ammo tuned to the rifle........no need to change anything. They all have the makings of a junk barrel......off-center chambers, machine marks in the bore, etc.

You just never know until you shoot it.

Ern

 

[hlee]

I know I chose poorly as far as accuracy is concerned but the tight timeframe and the lack of funds did not allow for anything better at the time.

The rifle has a Burris XTR III 3.3-18 on it, Magpul SL stock and a Wilson Combat TTU single stage trigger. Also added a RifleSpeed Adjustable gas block since I will be shooting suppressed too.
I don't need it to be super accurate but somewhere around 1MOA would be fine. I knew what I was getting into when I bought it and don't expect a miracle. That why I mention DMR accuracy and not battle rifle accuracy. So if I get 1.5 MOA out of it I could live with it but would rather get closer to 1MOA. Doubt I would dip below 1MOA.

I know I chose poorly as far as accuracy is concerned but the tight timeframe and the lack of funds did not allow for anything better at the time.

No, you don't. All you know is that you found some reports of poor accuracy on the internet. You already bought the barrel. Shoot it. A couple of boxes of ammunition are way less expensive than buying a new barrel.

I don't need it to be super accurate but somewhere around 1MOA would be fine.

1 MOA is a high bar for a gas gun. Yes, they can shoot substantially better than that. But, consider that the venerable M110 was held to a 1.3 MOA accuracy standard, with match ammunition.

 

[ut755ln]

So you think my expectations are bit too high? What would you expect an Aero M5 to shoot out of the box? 2-3MOA?

I would try it with different grain match ammo. Put it in a sled or use a bipod and bag and see what kind of groups you can print. I think the SASS and CSASS were both excepted with something like 1.5 MOA.

 

[lwnemesis]

This is why I asked to be set straight on this. I have unrealistic expectations that need to be tempered down a notch. I'll try it out the way it is and see what happens.

 

[Tiribulus]

This one is a 16 in. 556 BA Hanson barrel. 5 rounds of crap X-Tac 55 fmj-bt. at 100 yards.

 

[45-90]

Don't like the weight then ya gotta change things.
I have a bunch of 308s and 1 weighs in at 6 lbs 2 oz 16" fluted barrel and is very accurate with 168 eldm at 2756 fps, 5 shots will hit 1/2" at 100 yds.
It has titanium bolt carrrier, titanium muzzle brake, carbon fiber 1 oz hand guard, and magnesium upper reciever. Everything else was so light I added a few ounces for something heavier than a pencil barrel.

But I did own the 308 win BA barrel, and it was not very accurate, but did pretty well with one load, the 168 gr match bullets.
Try it to see if the accuracy is acceptable, to you.
The weight savings starts with a lighter fluted barrel, but gets more expensive as you move into titanium, and magnesium parts.

 

[bfoosh006]

If you can buy the Criterion still.. in Washington, buy It.

You will always wonder if you should have.

That said... your current barrel might shoot fine.

 

[rdinak]

This is what you seek. The price is worrying me and my barrel shoots fine.

Lothar Walther barrel

 

[BCP]

The gun is already at 14lbs+ with scope.

There are people lugging around 16-18lb semi autos on this site.

I would shoot it first.

If you want lighter weight then it's a bit of everything. Different stock choice, shorter/lighter barrel, lighter scope mount, lighter optic but it won't be as fun to shoot off a bench or bipod.

 

[lastshot12]

Pull the BA and sell it.

Buy the 18" criterion.

Move on with life.

If weight is primary concern I will go this route as well get the 18" criterion.

 

[tucaz]

i dont understand why you don't go shoot it and find out?

you’ve had it a year and its unfired but you’re all spooled up about accuracy that you havent tested.

go buy some fgmm and find out. cheap ball fmj isn't going to cut it, in any barrel.

 

[hlee]

i dont understand why you don't go shoot it and find out?

you’ve had it a year and its unfired but you’re all spooled up about accuracy that you havent tested.

go buy for fgmm and find out. cheap ball fmj is going to cut it in any barrel.

Some people think that every thing they read on the internet is true.

 

[Billiam1211]

My AR10 started it's life out the same as yours - bought an M5E1 upper with their 18-inch barrel. It shot ok, really for what it was and the price point it wasn't bad in hindsight. The 18-inch BA barrel was probably around 1.5 MOA average if I'm being completely honest. Since then, I've lost my mind trying to get extreme precision out of my M5E1. What I learned was I probably should've just bought a JP LRP-07, GAP-10, SP10, Wilson Combat or something similar right from the start. At this point I've tried 5 or 6 different types of barrels looking for that one that shoots. I currently have an upper being built by Craddock Precision... the chasing of the dragon continues.

Just be real about what accuracy potential you truly need, and I'd go ahead and shoot the factory barrel and see how it performs. BA is hit or miss, I've had a few barrels that shot extremely well from them - it just depends who's on the shop floor that day.

 

[ZA206]

Another relevant question is if the OP can even shoot an AR10 sub 1 MOA. If he can’t, it may not matter about his barrel choice.

 

[ut755ln]

Another relevant question is if the OP can even shoot an AR10 sub 1 MOA. If he can’t, it may not matter about his barrel choice.

I was kind of touching on this. To me, 1 MOA on a gas gun is fantastic because that is kind of where my personal skill level collides with the equipment I own and use.

 

[Ronws]

I was kind of touching on this. To me, 1 MOA on a gas gun is fantastic because that is kind of where my personal skill level collides with the equipment I own and use.

I also think 1 MOA on a gas gun would be great and I, like you, think a lot of it has to do with skill level. So, maybe some people misrepresent their time in service.

For example, Ryan Cleckner carried a .300 WM in the Rangers.

Nicholas Irvin carried an SR-25 in the Rangers.

I wonder if it had to do with primary duties. Irving claims he was given the nickname "the Reaper" for having the most confirmed kills in a deployment. 33. Of course, there are many more deaths. Confirmed means they investigated afterward to identify the downed target. An SR-25 is a gas gun.

As opposed to Cleckner's bolt gun. Also, Cleckner does not talk about how many kills. He only mentions things he learned in action based on strategic or what he called, tactical shooting. For example, the .300 WM resists wind deflection a little more than the .308 mostly because of velocity. So, out to a couple of hundred yards, no farther than about 400, I think, he would dial elevation for distance and then hold left or right edge of target zone into the wind. He was not trying to hit an X or pierce the ear lobe of a gnat. He was trying to put some "ouch, damn it!" into a target about the size of an IPSC. He has stated that he would likely not win a PRS or sharpshooting competition. But given him a proven 1 MOA rifle and he will more than likely hit the target at 1,000 yards.

So, do we call BS on Nicholas "The Reaper" Irving? Especially after he said you just be near a .50 BMG zinging by and it would rip your arm off?

 

[TonyTheTiger]

So, do we call BS on Nicholas "The Reaper" Irving? Especially after he said you just be near a .50 BMG zinging by and it would rip your arm off?

Yes.

 

[Ryewhiskeybent]

I was kind of touching on this. To me, 1 MOA on a gas gun is fantastic because that is kind of where my personal skill level collides with the equipment I own and use.

Yep. PSA rifle with 16in CHF mil spec barrel. As purchased except for an ALG ACT trigger. This is load dev with 60gr midway 2nds(Vmax) with LC brass. 5 shots, barely over MOA. I’m running with it. Not worth my time or components to chase it any further. Minute of critter out to 300 or so works for me.

 

[Genesis1984]

Buy the Criterion and don't spend one second trying to find out if the BA shoots.

This is asinine. Ive had bad luck with BA, and run a ton of criterion, but its rediculous to suggest he has anything to gain without trying what he has. Considering he hasnt shot it yet, hes clearly not a high volume shooter, and may be.seeved quite well with his particular barrel. If it doesnt shoot? Your out nothing but time, and "maybe" a hundred in ammo he can recoup selling the replacement ba barrel (remember, ba has a stupid 1 moa guarantee)

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Your out nothing but time, and "maybe" a hundred in ammo he can recoup selling the replacement ba barrel (remember, ba has a stupid 1 moa guarantee)

Nothing but the one thing you can never get back.

I have any old Savage barrel on my shelf. If you want it I'll send it to you to see if you can get it to shoot 1/4 MOA.