Someone with QuickLoad

P

Pinecone

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 21, 2013
1,699
9
#1
I would like something run through QuickLoad, but I am not ready to buy it myself yet. :)

I finished my OCW workup and came up with this load:

Lapua Brass (53.8 grain water volume, not measured but from another thread)
Federal 210M Primer
Sierra 175gr Match King
43.5 grs Varget
COAL - 2.860"
2600 fps out of my Remington 700 (factory PS-1)

The next highest node would be at 44.8 grains of Varget. I was wondering what the velocity would be at this higher node.

Thanks.
 
#3
Let's see, they expect me to buy a $150 program for one run to get an idea of something? And do not offer an sort of trial?

And want to stop ANY sharing of use or data from their program.

Well, they just lost a sale. I was going to eventually buy it, but with an attitude like that, nope.

I will just load up 5 rounds and take them to the range next time and shoot them over my chronograph.

VERY short sighted of the developer.
 
#4
Pinecone said:
Let's see, they expect me to buy a $150 program for one run to get an idea of something? And do not offer an sort of trial?

And want to stop ANY sharing of use or data from their program.

Well, they just lost a sale. I was going to eventually buy it, but with an attitude like that, nope.

I will just load up 5 rounds and take them to the range next time and shoot them over my chronograph.

VERY short sighted of the developer.
Click to expand...

I am inclined to agree, but it is their program.

Good luck working out the data.

Looking at my spread sheet, for some reason my data jumps from 44.4 to 45 Gr Varget and a mean velocity of 2675 fps from a 24" 5R barrel for the 45Gr loads. Lapua brass and 175 SMK, CCI 200 primer, COAL 2.855".

44.8 Gr Varget with a Hornady 178 Gr Amax, Lapua, CCI 200 - 2658 fps. Only node I found was much lower and not great - Further W/U needed

Lapua Varget, Berger 175OTM, 44.8 Gr Varget - 2601 fps. Decent node at 44 Gr, but velocities were all over the place on all loads that day. Will work up further.
 
#5
Pinecone said:
Let's see, they expect me to buy a $150 program for one run to get an idea of something? And do not offer an sort of trial?

And want to stop ANY sharing of use or data from their program.

Well, they just lost a sale. I was going to eventually buy it, but with an attitude like that, nope.

I will just load up 5 rounds and take them to the range next time and shoot them over my chronograph.

VERY short sighted of the developer.
Click to expand...

No. They expect you to buy the program if you thing it's worthwhile to buy. There is enough info online to be able to make an informed decision about the program without having others run loads for you. For someone running several different loads in several different rifles, the programs pays for itself in the time and money saved on load development.

By the way, the trial is on this webpage:
quickload quicktarget software

IIRC, the demo is limited to .308 with some proprietary powder, but it's plenty to get a feel of how the program runs. Now stop bitching, and go shoot something.
 
#8
bh-ltr said:
The demo is kinda worthless. Lets you see how the program works but allows you no ability to determine any sort of accuracy.
Click to expand...

It's a demo... that's what it's supposed to do. They worked hard to build it, it makes sense to expect people to pay before they use it. Considering the niche aspect of their market segment, I think it's not unreasonable at all. Free demos work great for games and toys, but this is a different category.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk 2
 
#10
jephthai said:
It's a demo... that's what it's supposed to do. They worked hard to build it, it makes sense to expect people to pay before they use it. Considering the niche aspect of their market segment, I think it's not unreasonable at all. Free demos work great for games and toys, but this is a different category.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

A fully functioning demo that works for a few days would allow someone to actually use it determine accuracy and still yet provide impetus to purchase it for further use. The demo lets you see what it will tell you but gives you no way to determine how closely it matches your actual results which is what I would like to see before paying for it.

~Brett
 
#12
rduckwor said:
Have they built a web download option yet or do you still have to wait for them to mail it to you?

RMD
Click to expand...
Nope, snail mail.

It's worth the $150. And like others have said, the computations are very close to real world data. My only complaint is the powder list could be more up to date.
 
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#13
Been a long time user of QL but really wish they would be quicker to update their program with new powders and bullets. Not to mention they should offer a secure download option. Heck, what I'd really like to see is a subscription based website that is constantly updated for an annual fee. That would be the ultimate.
 
#15
rduckwor said:
I am inclined to agree, but it is their program.

Good luck working out the data.

Looking at my spread sheet, for some reason my data jumps from 44.4 to 45 Gr Varget and a mean velocity of 2675 fps from a 24" 5R barrel for the 45Gr loads. Lapua brass and 175 SMK, CCI 200 primer, COAL 2.855".

44.8 Gr Varget with a Hornady 178 Gr Amax, Lapua, CCI 200 - 2658 fps. Only node I found was much lower and not great - Further W/U needed

Lapua Varget, Berger 175OTM, 44.8 Gr Varget - 2601 fps. Decent node at 44 Gr, but velocities were all over the place on all loads that day. Will work up further.
Click to expand...

Actually, I was going to chrono the loads as I shot the OCW test, but when I arrived at the range, I was missing one of the stands for the chrono (Oehler 35P). So I only was able to chrono the 43.5 grain load when I was testing bullet seating depth.

Thanks for the info. It looks like I might expect about 60 - 75 FPS for the higher node.
 
#16
I agree with most here by saying either buy it and enjoy the benefits...or load up 50 more test rounds and head back to the range.

It's useful, unique, and $150...in a sport/hobby where half of everything you need is in the 4-figure category...

And I bought it because I would feel like a d-bag asking a guy who DID buy it to waste his time running a load on the software he paid for. Just sayin'...
 
#17
The only thing preventing me from buying the program is the website not having an download option for the software or updates, it's the 21st century for crying out loud.
 
#18
I am not going to buy the program for ONE use.

I was planning on buying later. But with the attitude of the company, nope.

And why load up 50 rounds? I can load 5 and chrono. Heck, for what I want to know, ONE round would be fine.
 
#20
This is turning into a bash QuickLoad thread since the OP couldn't get his answer. ;)

So I'll jump on board.......I haven't purchased QuickLoad because:

1: Their price point is too high for what you get... $150 for a "single, home user" software package....it's not enterprise grade software, they do not have 24/7 phone technical support, it does not come with an enterprise license meaning you can have it installed on any PC you own and any user allowed on your PC can use it. $50 is the appropriate price point for home use software that does not offer free upgrades or immediate 24/7 technical support or volume licensing.

2. The interface looks like it was written for Windows 98...unless they updated and not updated their website, here's what they show on their website: Untitled Document

3. I click on buy now and It takes me to a page that says to call them.

4. The main page says If I want to use a previous version on Win 7 I have to send in the CD in order to get an update for Win 7...oh, for an additional $15.95 + S/H...and so forth...you'll see it. This tells me that my $150 does not buy me upgrades for the life of the product. I imagine they want you to send the CD in to prove that you own the software and to keep piracy down???

5. Their website looks like something I wrote in 6th grade.
 
#21
thrusty said:
This is turning into a bash QuickLoad thread since the OP couldn't get his answer. ;)

So I'll jump on board.......I haven't purchased QuickLoad because:

1: Their price point is too high for what you get... $150 for a "single, home user" software package....it's not enterprise grade software, they do not have 24/7 phone technical support, it does not come with an enterprise license meaning you can have it installed on any PC you own and any user allowed on your PC can use it. $50 is the appropriate price point for home use software that does not offer free upgrades or immediate 24/7 technical support or volume licensing.

2. The interface looks like it was written for Windows 98...unless they updated and not updated their website, here's what they show on their website: Untitled Document

3. I click on buy now and It takes me to a page that says to call them.

4. The main page says If I want to use a previous version on Win 7 I have to send in the CD in order to get an update for Win 7...oh, for an additional $15.95 + S/H...and so forth...you'll see it. This tells me that my $150 does not buy me upgrades for the life of the product. I imagine they want you to send the CD in to prove that you own the software and to keep piracy down???

5. Their website looks like something I wrote in 6th grade.
Click to expand...

Best damn 150$ I ever spent. No offense Thrusty. To each his own. But I was literally amazed first time I used it because it was 5 fps off. I wish I had QL a long time ago because I wouldn't have freaking stock
Piles of powder and less cash in my wallet.
 
#22
And another thing. You guys are bitching about 150$. I don't know about you guys but that's freaking chump change in the scheme of things. It tells you what's gonna work and what's not gonna work. I think knowing ballistic efficiency of a load is worth 150$. And also where do you think BERGERS MANUAL came from.... I'll give you a hint ... It starts with a Q
 
#23
[MENTION=43855]Aimsmall55[/MENTION] No offense taken. I haven't used the software - so these are just personal/professional opinions...however, I would pay $150 for it if I knew it was coming with lifetime updates/upgrades and full technical support 24/7 and licensing that didn't screw the user. ;)
 
#24
bh-ltr said:
Hrm. I don't get how it can be I've seen greater than 2% variance in MV from one 20" barrel to another.

~Brett
Click to expand...

Muzzle velocity is a function of more than just powder charge and barrel length. The biggest key variables you are forgetting are chamber dimensions and what QL refers to as "start pressure". Chamber dimensions are accounted for by measuring fired case capacity from that particular rifle. A higher case capacity upon ignition obviously results in a larger expansion chamber and reduced pressures and velocities. Varying chamber dimensions can easily account for 100+ fps of variance between barrels of the same length shooting the same load. If you had done some research and looked at the demo, you would understand this concept already. This is part of what differentiates QL from other data sources. It calculates based on your individual rifle, brass, seating depth, bullet dimensions, bullet coatings, etc.
 
Last edited:
#26
Temp9 said:
Muzzle velocity is a function of more than just powder charge and barrel length. The biggest key variables you are forgetting are chamber dimensions and what QL refers to as "start pressure". Chamber dimensions are accounted for by measuring fired case capacity from that particular rifle. A higher case capacity upon ignition obviously results in a larger expansion chamber and reduced pressures and velocities. Varying chamber dimensions can easily account for 100+ fps of variance between barrels of the same length shooting the same load. If you had done some research and looked at the demo, you would understand this concept already. This is part of what differentiates QL from other data sources. It calculates based on your individual rifle, brass, seating depth, bullet dimensions, bullet coatings, etc.
Click to expand...

I did look at the demo but I was in the boat of well if none of these things are real then it didn't interest me as much. I don't change things enough to want to spend the time reading the manual to figure it out enough. I just run an OCW get a load that gives me pressure independance and shoot the shit out of it. The only thing I was interested in testing was what I'd get if I was to go to a 24" or 26" over my current 20" tube. However that being said I think I could put up with 24" but 26" would be too much of a pain. Especially whenever I threw the suppressor on.

~Brett
 
#27
Aimsmall55 said:
Best damn 150$ I ever spent. No offense Thrusty. To each his own. But I was literally amazed first time I used it because it was 5 fps off. I wish I had QL a long time ago because I wouldn't have freaking stock
Piles of powder and less cash in my wallet.
Click to expand...

Same here Aimsmall.

Some of you guys are cracking me up..."well, I've never actually USED the software, but here's my opinion on why it sucks..." LOL

Seriously though, it's great. If you buy it, you're likely to agree. And give Ed a break, he's a good dude (a veteran too), and he'll take the time to talk with you if you have questions.
 
#28
Ok so I'll bite. I recently did some reloading testing where I needed to change primers.

I shot an old load and got a MV of 2580.

shot the same load with a new primer and got 2601

Shot the new primer with 0.2g less powder and got 2577

Ok so now I see that 0.2g of powder made a 24fps difference in my 20" barrel.

What I'd like to know is if I was to add 0.2g more would I gain yet another 24fps? I'd first be curious to see if QL would show the 24 fps delta that I already know to be fact. If someone is willing to look at if this is accurate I'd be willing to share all information necessary via PM. If then I get a prediction based on the simulation of what +0.2 grains would provide I'd load up 10 and shoot them over my MagnetoSpeed to prove things out. This is what I'd call an acceptable demo and if I was able to see accuracy in this type of test I'd be 100% on board. I'd drop my 150 bucks, spend the time to learn the tool, and recommend it when opportunities arise.

I know that this is asking a lot and honestly don't expect any responses. However I'm interested enough to take any measurements needed to perform this test. Even taking water volumes of pre and post fired cases if need be.

~Brett
 
#29
Temp9 said:
Muzzle velocity is a function of more than just powder charge and barrel length. The biggest key variables you are forgetting are chamber dimensions and what QL refers to as "start pressure". Chamber dimensions are accounted for by measuring fired case capacity from that particular rifle. A higher case capacity upon ignition obviously results in a larger expansion chamber and reduced pressures and velocities. Varying chamber dimensions can easily account for 100+ fps of variance between barrels of the same length shooting the same load. If you had done some research and looked at the demo, you would understand this concept already. This is part of what differentiates QL from other data sources. It calculates based on your individual rifle, brass, seating depth, bullet dimensions, bullet coatings, etc.
Click to expand...

Ok I've got the demo on my box now (which actually runs under Linux in Wine). I don't see how I'm supposed to find this information out from the demo. I can change the numbers for case dimensions and what not but why would I? I'm looking at a fake bullet that I have no basis in reality for, fed but a fake powder that has no basis in reality.

Granted I can go in and type in different numbers and see what changes. But, I don't understand how that really informs me about the application and how I would really use it. I mean it at least lets me know that when I tweak numbers that things change. That is something I already knew it would do. I'd like to test it against some empirical data and prove it out in my real world situations. Even if its not absolutely accurate if it could provide accurate relative deltas that would still be quite valuable to me.

However with the demo not having any sort of manual or any sort of real powders and bullets its kinda not all that useful to demonstrate what you would get to see. Considering that the application is one that most users would spend a decent bit of time using; I think a better demo would be one with at least some popular powders and bullets. Lets say for for example, 308 168 and 175 SMKs and Varget. This is something that I'd say most users of the application have real data on. Then allow the user to use the application for 15-20 minutes before it times out and exits. Furthermore, you could disallow the opening and saving of files (which seems to already be in place). That would allow you enough time to actually use the thing for a bit and verify numbers, but still provide good incentive to buy the application.

Another way to do it could perhaps be to give full access to all the powders and bullets (or limited still). But, only allow 10-15 calculations to be run before it times out and won't run on that PC any more. I also think that the manual should be included with the demo so that people can more easily research the idea of purchasing the application.

Right now it looks like an application written as quickly as possible, with the cheapest looking interface possible, backed by a website that is poorly formatted and looks like its from the mid 90's. I'd like for it to be a good deal for me. But, based on what is provided to check things out, it doesn't appear to be for me. I honestly went into it trying to justify spending 150 bucks on it but based on what I was provided for a demo I can't get there. It would still just be a leap of faith and at the moment I'd rather spend that money on reloading components based on what I've seen so far.

~Brett
 
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#30
pucker said:
Same here Aimsmall.

Some of you guys are cracking me up..."well, I've never actually USED the software, but here's my opinion on why it sucks..." LOL

Seriously though, it's great. If you buy it, you're likely to agree. And give Ed a break, he's a good dude (a veteran too), and he'll take the time to talk with you if you have questions.
Click to expand...

$150 to get a piece of software that tells you theoretical data is a bit high to me...I don't need to USE the software to form that opinion. Besides, if I buy the software and don't like it, do I get a full refund? Is the demo completely unlocked for 30 days so that I can use it as if it were the full version and experience all its greatness? Isn't the demo's functionality restricted/limited? I have absolutely no problems with Ed personally or professionally...I have a problem with the cost. ;)
 
#32
Quickload is an excellent piece of software. It's not the end all and be all of reloading, but for a numb-nuts like me it is an extraordinary reference. If you're to cheap to buy QuickLoad, the Reloader's Nest website is the next best thing.
 
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