Something is wrong with my M1A

[pmclaine]

When I first bought it everyone was telling me "You have to buy X".

X ranged from "Coast Guard Compensators", Unitized gas cylinders "Make sure its the USMC style", National Match piston, National Match sights, "Make sure you do a tilt test, it will never shoot if anything is rubbing".

I kind of just wanted a standard issue GI representation gun. My hopes were it would hold 4 MOA as a field grade M1A.

Somethings is decidedly wrong with my rifle.

I think its doing what everyone told me it would not do without certain things.....

1 - 9 and 3 -10s before I adjusted dope Down 1 MOA, Right 1 MOA. Than it shot 4 more 10s and 12 X.

Should I get the unitized gas cylinder? Will the Coast Guard compensator help?

 

[lash]

Yeah, that sucks. You should probably get rid of that one right away and buy what all of the cool kids are using. I’ll help you dispose of it if needed... ?

Just trying to help out. ??

 

[truck1]

Like your M49 spotter.

 

[JMGlasgow]

What distance was that shot at?

 

[Defender3]

Nice!

I always thought an M1A was a 2MOA rifle, 1.5 MOA with good ammo and 1MOA with good ammo, a properly fitted stock a NM flash hider, etc.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Long ago when my son was 12 he an I went to the local range in Dade City Fla. He had been shooting for about 2 years. We arrived to find a M14 expert shooting prone at 100yds getting ready for a match. When the son put my 14 in the rack he came over an started to talk to him an preceeded to tell him everything that was wrong with it. Long short the son fired 20 rds the group was centered on target with a 1.5" group. All the while I was watching an listening. Once the range was cold we all walked down to the targets, bullet holes don't know how to lie. I just said, you know if I knew your better, I'd let you shoot this rack gun at your match this weekend, or the boy here could just enter under your name. His groups (3) were in the 2.5-2.75" range, but he was the expert with his home built match gun,... Could be a match M1A was not up to a rack Winchester M14 that day, don't know,...

 

[Skunk]

Your magazine definitely show signs of stunted growth!

 

[pmclaine]

What distance was that shot at?

100 yards. SR-1 Target reduced for use at 100.

Ten ring = 3.35
X ring = 1.35

 

[pmclaine]

Your magazine definitely show signs of stunted growth!

Its Irish and it was cold.

 

[Duc]

You NEED a State of the Art Plastic stock. It will make you shoot better...(PS send me that left over piece of firewood)

 

[deltawiskey]

Might as well throw it in a box with your M40 and send them my way
DW

 

[Harleystoo]

So, are we being facetious?
If you're really looking for "expert" advice, talk to an AR owner.

 

[RTH1800]

OK, You forced my hand. Breaking out the '14 this week and shooting a few groups!
Lovely rifle and clearly a great shooter. BTW, That old LC match ammo won't do either. You need Berger bullets, Lapua brass, neck dies. Simply won't do at all.

 

[Random Guy]

Here's how one can confirm that one has middle-aged eyesight that has kind-of been going south for the past couple of years:

100 yard target with replica NM M1A, match handloads and a 8" 'Dirty Bird' target. Shoot a 99-5X with a horizontal spread of 2.0" and vertical spread about 3.7" (or 2.7" if you subtract the flyer at 6 o'clock)

...Then take the same rifle, same target, very similar handload, but using a well-used cheap 1967ish Tasco 3-9x scope with an old Basset mount. Shoot a 100-6x with 9 out of the 10 rds showing a nice 1.3" cluster (or 1.7" extreme spread with flyer at 3 o'clock)

...not sure what to do about that outside of Lasik eye surgery, but there you have it: Diagnosis is middle-aged eyesight that now requires tri-focal glasses...but I'm still having fun at the range and esp when I use optics, so that's what counts.

FWIW, here's the retro/replica build of a 1967 NM M14 using a circa 1977 SAI M1A. (The 1967 dated M118 ammo is for display purposes).

 

[Hobo Hilton]

First of all, there is nothing "Wrong".... You have a good weapon.

Spend some time here reading and absorbing the info....

M14 Forum
m14forum.com

 

[pmclaine]

Here's how one can confirm that one has middle-aged eyesight that has kind-of been south for the past couple of years:

100 yard target with replica NM M1A, match handloads and a 8" 'Dirty Bird' target. Shoot a 99-5X with a horizontal spread of 2.0" and vertical spread about 3.7" (or 2.7" if you subtract the flyer at 6 o'clock)

View attachment 7263372

...Then take the same rifle, same target, very similar handload, but using a well-used cheap 1967ish Tasco 3-9x scope with an old Basset mount. Shoot a 100-6x with 9 out of the 10 rds showing a nice 1.3" cluster (or 1.7" extreme spread with flyer at 3 o'clock)

View attachment 7263373

...not sure what to do about that outside of Lasik eye surgery, but there you have it: Diagnosis is middle-aged eyesight that now requires tri-focal glasses...but I'm still having fun at the range and esp when I use optics, so that's what counts.

FWIW, here's the retro/replica build of a 1967 NM M14 using a circa 1977 SAI M1A. (The 1967 dated M118 ammo is for display purposes).

View attachment 7263390

I need to get a good dominant eye prescription lens in these...

My street lenses are not perfect for front sight clarity.

 

[pmclaine]

OK, You forced my hand. Breaking out the '14 this week and shooting a few groups!
Lovely rifle and clearly a great shooter. BTW, That old LC match ammo won't do either. You need Berger bullets, Lapua brass, neck dies. Simply won't do at all.

Holding you to posting some pics of some fine M1A......

 

[jbell]

That is a very good shooting rifle for sure, but let’s not discount the shooter. Great job!

 

[pmclaine]

That is a very good shooting rifle for sure, but let’s not discount the shooter. Great job!

I cheat my ass off.

Look at all the bags.

That rifle should be shot standing like a man not squatting like.......well whatever.

 

[sandwarrior]

When I first bought it everyone was telling me "You have to buy X".

X ranged from "Coast Guard Compensators", Unitized gas cylinders "Make sure its the USMC style", National Match piston, National Match sights, "Make sure you do a tilt test, it will never shoot if anything is rubbing".

I kind of just wanted a standard issue GI representation gun. My hopes were it would hold 4 MOA as a field grade M1A.

Somethings is decidedly wrong with my rifle.

View attachment 7261716

View attachment 7261717

View attachment 7261718

I think its doing what everyone told me it would not do without certain things.....

View attachment 7261719

1 - 9 and 3 -10s before I adjusted dope Down 1 MOA, Right 1 MOA. Than it shot 4 more 10s and 12 X.

Should I get the unitized gas cylinder? Will the Coast Guard compensator help?

I'm pretty sure you need to send it to me and we can get those flyers fixed up for ya! ? ?

I might be going your way quite possibly this summer and perform surgery on your rifle at your home range? We'll get her all fixed up for ya. It might take a few hundred rounds.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

BTDT, exactly. The only thing I did to my 1996 'Loaded" M1a with stainless midweight (likely Douglas) barrel was to glassbed the stock according to an interpretation of the NRA Garand Reprint, and feed it 175SMK at 2.815" OAL, Fed Match Brass, Fed Gold Medal Primer, and 42.2gr of IMR-4064.

It performed to National Match spec.

You are a Fortunate Dood.

Greg

 

[NukeMMC]

Went Distinguished with the M14 in 1993. Shot it at 1000 at Interservice at Quantico in 1991 and Perry in 1994. Shot single lugged M14 DMRs in 1993-1995 for Security. 2 of the 5 DMRs we had were wood-stocked, no-lug early versions with ART2 scopes and SAK medium weight barrels. They would shoot the LC-84 and WRA-60 M80 ball ammo we used for practice and rough zeros into 2" groups at 300 yds off sandbags. Always will have a soft spot in an old cold Chief's heart for the M14. First SSBN I was on had M14s for issue rifles in late 80s. 2 of which had operable selectors. They could hit a 5gal milk carton in the water most of the time at 100-ish yds with M80 ball from the sail of a sub on the surface (cork in a bathtub) once sighted in.

 

[Random Guy]

Shot single lugged M14 DMRs in 1993-1995 for Security. 2 of the 5 DMRs we had were wood-stocked, no-lug early versions with ART2 scopes and SAK medium weight barrels.

Welcome back. I tried my best to build replicas of both of those rifles (top and bottom in the pic). Top rifle has a 1993 dated USN marked heavy Barnett barrel, and rear lugged receiver. Although the wood stocked M21 has a 1983 dated General Dynamics medium weight barrel and not a SAK, but I like it nonetheless. (Middle rifle is an US Army XM25 replica).

Thanks again for chiming in on your first person experience, much appreciated(!).

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

The only thing wrong with that rifle is it's in your gun safe and not mine. Nice looking rifle you have there.

 

[sandwarrior]

First of all, there is nothing "Wrong".... You have a good weapon.

Spend some time here reading and absorbing the info....

M14 Forum
m14forum.com

...He said to pmc. Not know who pmc is.... ....?

 

[Lug Nut]

Long ago when my son was 12 he an I went to the local range in Dade City Fla. He had been shooting for about 2 years. We arrived to find a M14 expert shooting prone at 100yds getting ready for a match. When the son put my 14 in the rack he came over an started to talk to him an preceeded to tell him everything that was wrong with it. Long short the son fired 20 rds the group was centered on target with a 1.5" group. All the while I was watching an listening. Once the range was cold we all walked down to the targets, bullet holes don't know how to lie. I just said, you know if I knew your better, I'd let you shoot this rack gun at your match this weekend, or the boy here could just enter under your name. His groups (3) were in the 2.5-2.75" range, but he was the expert with his home built match gun,... Could be a match M1A was not up to a rack Winchester M14 that day, don't know,...

Indeed.

My 80’s vintage, Winchester barreled, rack grade M1A, shoots like the OP’s.

Amazing, the barrel has some good size rust pits between the gas port and muzzle and still shoots really well.

I’ll never “tune” it.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

You NEED a State of the Art Plastic stock. It will make you shoot better...(PS send me that left over piece of firewood)

I put a plastic stock on mine and it would not fire three shots without jamming...

Went back to wood stock... shot like a typewriter... never jammed since.

State of the art... right!

 

[eastexsteve]

Should I get the unitized gas cylinder? Will the Coast Guard compensator help?

The unitized gas cylinder will help accuracy immensely. Also, make sure your gas cylinder doesn't need to be shimmed. So will a good stock bedding job. NM sights will help once you really learn how to shoot those peeps. They can be tricky in different lighting conditions. Even just putting on a NM front sight blade will help. For now, start playing with different ammo. Start with the inexpensive M80 and go from there. The best shooting M80 in either of my guns is the PMC X-TAC. This ammo advertises as "no steel." But, one of my guns is a SA National Match, and it doesn't shoot M80 much better than 2 MOA. But, it shoots M118LR like a laser beam. There is a reason a NM model costs more. There is a difference, and it's all about the accuracy. But, that doesn't mean you can't do a few things to yours to tighten it up.

 

[pmclaine]

The unitized gas cylinder will help accuracy immensely. Also, make sure your gas cylinder doesn't need to be shimmed. So will a good stock bedding job. NM sights will help once you really learn how to shoot those peeps. They can be tricky in different lighting conditions. Even just putting on a NM front sight blade will help. For now, start playing with different ammo. Start with the inexpensive M80 and go from there. The best shooting M80 in either of my guns is the PMC X-TAC. This ammo advertises as "no steel." But, one of my guns is a SA National Match, and it doesn't shoot M80 much better than 2 MOA. But, it shoots M118LR like a laser beam. There is a reason a NM model costs more. There is a difference, and it's all about the accuracy. But, that doesn't mean you can't do a few things to yours to tighten it up.

I'll get right on it.

 

[Son of Dorn]

Personally I think you OUGHT to get something to fill in the selector notch in the stock.

But that's just an aesthetics thing.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

I would love to have an M14.
Congratulations and enjoy.

 

[AManWearingAHat]

Something is definitely wrong with that rifle, send it my way for evaluation so you can get it off your hands.

Great shooting friend. Id love to add one to my safe one day. A shooting coat, an M1A and a pile of .308 makes for a very fun day.

 

[pmclaine]

Personally I think you OUGHT to get something to fill in the selector notch in the stock.

But that's just an aesthetics thing.

Bought one of the Hawks selector kits.

Didnt seem to fit right.

Only spent a short time working on it, possible my receiver is one of those with a little more beef so as to prevent the lip edges from fitting correctly.

I may look at it again some day but again its only aesthetic.......manscaping for the man rifle.

 

[BEJ762]

Bought one of the Hawks selector kits.

Didnt seem to fit right.

Only spent a short time working on it, possible my receiver is one of those with a little more beef so as to prevent the lip edges from fitting correctly.

I may look at it again some day but again its only aesthetic.......manscaping for the man rifle.

You might need to take a file to the front area of the selector bar. The area that connects to the charging handle. They do require you to fit them.

 

[pmclaine]

You might need to take a file to the front area of the selector bar. The area that connects to the charging handle. They do require you to fit them.

I filed the "locator" nubby off, had to relieve an angle at the rear to ensure no interference, sat in the wood good but something was off when I lowered the receiver.

Almost seemed like I need to "thin" the length of the connector bar.

A pass with the mill I dont own and a trip to someplace that parkerizes seems like too much effort for looks.

What I need to do though is change out my sight cover spring for a NOS I got from Amherst and zero up my sights, maybe add some paint marks.

Sight loosened up on me last shoot trying to get a 300 zero.

Functional stuff.

And more linseed oil, never enough wood rubbin'

 

[smoothy8500]

Almost seemed like I need to "thin" the length of the connector bar.

The connector and mounting bracket need to be moved "outboard" a bit more. It may require relieving the bracket or inside the stock to get it to clear the side rail of the receiver. Sometimes it needs clearance where the connector is at the front of the receiver. The M1A has a wider side rail than the original M14 receiver to support the op-rod.

 

[nesikabay]

Yeah, that sucks. You should probably get rid of that one right away and buy what all of the cool kids are using. I’ll help you dispose of it if needed... ?

Just trying to help out. ??

What he said 2nd in line if you sell it

 

[Random Guy]

I filed the "locator" nubby off, had to relieve an angle at the rear to ensure no interference, sat in the wood good but something was off when I lowered the receiver.

Almost seemed like I need to "thin" the length of the connector bar.

A pass with the mill I dont own and a trip to someplace that parkerizes seems like too much effort for looks.

They can be a pain to fit and install, all depends on frame rail width and stock dimensions. Since you have the parts, there is one more option that you might consider if you want to fill just the area at the selector switch cut-out: Cutting the connector rod just in front of the selector lock parts. Attached is what I am considering using on my pending M14 EBR build as my SAI frame rail is already flush up against the edge of the SAGE chassis and I don't think installing the full connector rod will be easy or look right given it will be hanging off the chassis for the full width of the rod. (and I don't want to machine the frame rail down to USGI width).

Pictures explain it better. First picture shows the shortened/"stubby" USGI connector arm that was re-parked after shortening. Last 2 pics show how much thicker a commercial M1A frame rail is relative to a de-milled USGI M14 heel - there is real estate w/ the M14 heel to allow the connector rod to fit more flush against the chassis. Same kind of issue applies with some wood stocks, depending on how thick or thin they are in that area. On a fat McMillan M1A stock there is plenty of room for the faux connector rod set-up.

Note: If you cut your connector rod down to the "stubby" version it will still fill the hole in the stock, but you'll need a 1/2" long thin finishing nail or similar to attach the "stubby" connector arm to the wood stock. You could re-park the stub, or maybe just get away with cold-bluing the exposed metal where the arm was cut-off. Anyhow, you have a nice rifle and thought I'd mention this option, since I'm trying to fit one of these to my SAGE chassis.

 

[Son of Dorn]

Bought one of the Hawks selector kits.

Didnt seem to fit right.

Only spent a short time working on it, possible my receiver is one of those with a little more beef so as to prevent the lip edges from fitting correctly.

I may look at it again some day but again its only aesthetic.......manscaping for the man rifle.

I have a Fulton dummy switch on mine. No connector bar, so I didn't have to deal with that. Kinda wish I'd found that one before I got the Fulton but I don't think there's any changing it now. Still looks good.

 

[pmclaine]

They can be a pain to fit and install, all depends on frame rail width and stock dimensions. Since you have the parts, there is one more option that you might consider if you want to fill just the area at the selector switch cut-out: Cutting the connector rod just in front of the selector lock parts. Attached is what I am considering using on my pending M14 EBR build as my SAI frame rail is already flush up against the edge of the SAGE chassis and I don't think installing the full connector rod will be easy or look right given it will be hanging off the chassis for the full width of the rod.

Pictures explain it better. First picture shows the shortened/"stubby" USGI connector arm that was re-parked after shortening. (Last 2 pics show how much thicker a commercial M1A frame rail is relative to a de-milled USGI M14 heel - there is real estate w/ the M14 heel to allow the connector rod to fit more flush against the chassis. Same kind of issue applies with some wood stocks, depending on how thick or thin they are in that area. (On a fat McMillan M1A stock there is plenty of room for the faux connector rod set-up).

Note: If you cut your connector rod down to the "stubby" version it will still fill the hole in the stock, but you'll need a 1/2" long thin finishing nail or similar to attach the "stubby" connector arm to the wood stock. You could re-park the stub, or maybe just get away with cold-bluing the exposed metal where the arm was cut-off. Anyhow, you have a nice rifle and thought I'd mention this option, since I'm trying to fit one of these to my SAGE chassis.

You Sir, are a man of experience and exceptional taste.

 

[Son of Dorn]

They can be a pain to fit and install, all depends on frame rail width and stock dimensions. Since you have the parts, there is one more option that you might consider if you want to fill just the area at the selector switch cut-out: Cutting the connector rod just in front of the selector lock parts. Attached is what I am considering using on my pending M14 EBR build as my SAI frame rail is already flush up against the edge of the SAGE chassis and I don't think installing the full connector rod will be easy or look right given it will be hanging off the chassis for the full width of the rod.

Pictures explain it better. First picture shows the shortened/"stubby" USGI connector arm that was re-parked after shortening. (Last 2 pics show how much thicker a commercial M1A frame rail is relative to a de-milled USGI M14 heel - there is real estate w/ the M14 heel to allow the connector rod to fit more flush against the chassis. Same kind of issue applies with some wood stocks, depending on how thick or thin they are in that area. (On a fat McMillan M1A stock there is plenty of room for the faux connector rod set-up).

Note: If you cut your connector rod down to the "stubby" version it will still fill the hole in the stock, but you'll need a 1/2" long thin finishing nail or similar to attach the "stubby" connector arm to the wood stock. You could re-park the stub, or maybe just get away with cold-bluing the exposed metal where the arm was cut-off. Anyhow, you have a nice rifle and thought I'd mention this option, since I'm trying to fit one of these to my SAGE chassis.

I've been wondering how the faux switches would work with an EBR chassis for a while. I'm curious to see how it all works out for you.