Re: Sons of guns -Red jacket making new machine guns ?
That 'modified thompson' being tested screamed of dremel work.
That 'modified thompson' being tested screamed of dremel work.
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Suppressors Sons of guns -Red jacket making new machine guns ?
- Thread starter Zevdogs
- Start date
Re: Sons of guns -Red jacket making new machine guns ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cooper623</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cooper623</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Also, they were shooting armor piercing tracers in broad day light in a field. This is pointless since you could shoot ball ammo to the same effect and in fact really stupid because it increases the risk of killing something that you didn't mean too (like any dwelling within at least 4 and half miles which could very likely exist) but i dont know about where they shoot so i cant really judge. </div></div>
I'm very curious how shootin AP-T makes a round more lethal than ball... or where you're getting this "at least 4 and a half miles" figure. Sounds to me you are not very well versed in lethal effects of AP ammunition or the drop of a .50bmg round. </div></div>
my point is that it penetrates more so therefore at extreme distances it could penetrate something that ball would not. i know its a long shot but it is a slightly increased risk for no gain and therefore doesn't make since. obviously they are both equally as lethal but the AP is designed to pierce armor (what a shocker) and therefore will penetrate more (hopefully i dont need to prove that one to you) . As for the 4.5 miles, obviously you cannot aim parallel to the ground and do this because of the drop but the .50 caliber round is capable of traveling this distance. I'm sorry let me correct myself, according to jbm ballistics, a 750 grain hornady a max bullet with a MV of 2700 fps fired at a 37.5 degree angle in 59 degree weather with 29.92 HG of pressure will travel 4.8465909 miles, which is a little farther than i quoted. now i cannot speak to how lethal this would be at this range but why dont you stand 4.5 miles away and let me shoot at you with the muzzle raised 37.5 degrees and you let me know if you think that that is a good idea or something that people should be doing on TV where they are representing people like us. Again as i said in my original post, i dont know where they shoot so i cant judge but it is stupid to add the additional penetrating abilities onto the .50 bmg round for simple target practice THAT IS WHAT I WAS GETTING AT. I do know what I am talking about so watch it before you go around trying to correct me. </div></div>
Well, I fire M8 API out of my M107 because aside from Mk211 it is the most accurate round readily available through the military. It also makes a nice flash when it hits hard surfaces making spotting hits easy.
Lethality has nothing to do with a round being built and designated as armor piercing. And an AP round simply has a hard penetrator inside of it- it is no more lethal on flesh than FMJ. Furthermore, at that range AP or FMJ it doesn't really matter because with the projectile's energy, it's not going to penetrate much either way.
You yourself said it, 37 degree angle above plane... What the fuck are you shooting at with that angle? An ME 109?
I can also read off the side of a box of .22 long rifle where it says "warning, dangerous over 1 mile"... However, possible it may be, it's not much in the realm of reality.
edit:
AMax has a considerably higher BC than AP-T, API-T or anything of the sort, so bump that angle up a bit...
Yeah, if someone hits me with a .50 from 4.5 miles away, and it somehow retained the energy and hit me in the right spot to kill me... it's just my time.
You have really got to extract your head out of your ass and come to terms with what would be considered the very outer limits of the most unlikely scenarios.
Instead of bitching about the perceived danger (for which you are either wholly unrealistic about, or just having total lapse in brain function), how about simply saying "mentioning firing armor piercing ammunition on national television isn't really the best kind of attention we as a community want." Plastering <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">bullshit</span></span> about a .50 being lethal to 4.5 miles with AP ammo on the web, available to anyone who searches ".50 armor piercing sniper" is doing nothing but perpetuation a severely misunderstood conception by many outside of our community (and apparently inside of our community too).
edit to the edit:
my ballistic calculator will only go to 3000 yards or about 1.7 miles and at that range M8 API has 936fpe... Only slightly more than a .41 Magnum. And you're not even half way there...</div></div>
When you say AP is more "lethal" you need to get some info first.
Amax has a higher B.C. than AP. It is a little higher number than it actually is but it is still higher.
At the end of 3 or more miles the velocity is going to be subsonic and unstable. AP is more lethal than ball because it has a higher B.C. than ball because its penetrator is denser than lead so it will go farther supersonic than ball. After sub sonic it is just a matter of getting hit by a 700 grain piece of metal going friggin fast. 800 FPS is 587 MPH. Can you say ouch? As to penetration, at that speed neither would do any expansion so they would both act like ball.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cooper623</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cooper623</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Also, they were shooting armor piercing tracers in broad day light in a field. This is pointless since you could shoot ball ammo to the same effect and in fact really stupid because it increases the risk of killing something that you didn't mean too (like any dwelling within at least 4 and half miles which could very likely exist) but i dont know about where they shoot so i cant really judge. </div></div>
I'm very curious how shootin AP-T makes a round more lethal than ball... or where you're getting this "at least 4 and a half miles" figure. Sounds to me you are not very well versed in lethal effects of AP ammunition or the drop of a .50bmg round. </div></div>
my point is that it penetrates more so therefore at extreme distances it could penetrate something that ball would not. i know its a long shot but it is a slightly increased risk for no gain and therefore doesn't make since. obviously they are both equally as lethal but the AP is designed to pierce armor (what a shocker) and therefore will penetrate more (hopefully i dont need to prove that one to you) . As for the 4.5 miles, obviously you cannot aim parallel to the ground and do this because of the drop but the .50 caliber round is capable of traveling this distance. I'm sorry let me correct myself, according to jbm ballistics, a 750 grain hornady a max bullet with a MV of 2700 fps fired at a 37.5 degree angle in 59 degree weather with 29.92 HG of pressure will travel 4.8465909 miles, which is a little farther than i quoted. now i cannot speak to how lethal this would be at this range but why dont you stand 4.5 miles away and let me shoot at you with the muzzle raised 37.5 degrees and you let me know if you think that that is a good idea or something that people should be doing on TV where they are representing people like us. Again as i said in my original post, i dont know where they shoot so i cant judge but it is stupid to add the additional penetrating abilities onto the .50 bmg round for simple target practice THAT IS WHAT I WAS GETTING AT. I do know what I am talking about so watch it before you go around trying to correct me. </div></div>
Well, I fire M8 API out of my M107 because aside from Mk211 it is the most accurate round readily available through the military. It also makes a nice flash when it hits hard surfaces making spotting hits easy.
Lethality has nothing to do with a round being built and designated as armor piercing. And an AP round simply has a hard penetrator inside of it- it is no more lethal on flesh than FMJ. Furthermore, at that range AP or FMJ it doesn't really matter because with the projectile's energy, it's not going to penetrate much either way.
You yourself said it, 37 degree angle above plane... What the fuck are you shooting at with that angle? An ME 109?
I can also read off the side of a box of .22 long rifle where it says "warning, dangerous over 1 mile"... However, possible it may be, it's not much in the realm of reality.
edit:
AMax has a considerably higher BC than AP-T, API-T or anything of the sort, so bump that angle up a bit...
Yeah, if someone hits me with a .50 from 4.5 miles away, and it somehow retained the energy and hit me in the right spot to kill me... it's just my time.
You have really got to extract your head out of your ass and come to terms with what would be considered the very outer limits of the most unlikely scenarios.
Instead of bitching about the perceived danger (for which you are either wholly unrealistic about, or just having total lapse in brain function), how about simply saying "mentioning firing armor piercing ammunition on national television isn't really the best kind of attention we as a community want." Plastering <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">bullshit</span></span> about a .50 being lethal to 4.5 miles with AP ammo on the web, available to anyone who searches ".50 armor piercing sniper" is doing nothing but perpetuation a severely misunderstood conception by many outside of our community (and apparently inside of our community too).
edit to the edit:
my ballistic calculator will only go to 3000 yards or about 1.7 miles and at that range M8 API has 936fpe... Only slightly more than a .41 Magnum. And you're not even half way there...</div></div>
When you say AP is more "lethal" you need to get some info first.
Amax has a higher B.C. than AP. It is a little higher number than it actually is but it is still higher.
At the end of 3 or more miles the velocity is going to be subsonic and unstable. AP is more lethal than ball because it has a higher B.C. than ball because its penetrator is denser than lead so it will go farther supersonic than ball. After sub sonic it is just a matter of getting hit by a 700 grain piece of metal going friggin fast. 800 FPS is 587 MPH. Can you say ouch? As to penetration, at that speed neither would do any expansion so they would both act like ball.
Re: Sons of guns -Red jacket making new machine guns ?
Not sure if you're replying to me, but I didn't say AP is more lethal- actually just the opposite- it is NOT more lethal. Both rounds will perform the same on flesh and the AP looses it's penetration advantage as velocity decreases.
We are in-fact saying the same thing...
Not sure if you're replying to me, but I didn't say AP is more lethal- actually just the opposite- it is NOT more lethal. Both rounds will perform the same on flesh and the AP looses it's penetration advantage as velocity decreases.
We are in-fact saying the same thing...
