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Sp 01/shield or glock 19
- Thread starter Cmb1025
- Start date
You're right. And like it almost always is, the answer to hardware problems is training and deliberate practice.
I put in the work and started getting the accuracy and speed that I was used to with DA/SA pistols.
Aside from using a revolver for some IDPA matches, I plan on shooting nothing but my P-10s at least throughout all of 2021.
The 60-90 grit makes sense for a carry gun. Those match guns must stick to your hands like glue with 36 grit!
It takes skin off
And on top of the grit, I put this on the palm of my left hand and on the front of my right hand: https://www.amazon.com/GRRRIP-Enhan...&qid=1609812701&sprefix=grrrip,aps,197&sr=8-2
My advice would be to look real hard at the Walther line. They don't have as much aftermarket as a Shield and especially a glock, But, they are great guns and the trigger is easily the best striker fire trigger out there. They shoot great and make weight and size. Seriously, go shoot one.
I’m 110% a CZ fanboi and will whore my S2 to anyone who wishes to try it out. Last guy that tried it was a near instant convert.
In the competition world, CZ owners are the ones enjoying their $1,700 Tactical Sport's while savoring the view of $5,000 1911 owners having to disassemble and clean their magazines every time they touch the dirt, which is exacerbated by the additional mag changes to clear all their wonderful malfunctions.
I'd second this. My experiences with Walthers have been very positive, and they are very under-rated in the United States. The PPS (M1) was way ahead of its time as a compact single stack striker-fired 9mm and didn't get the attention that it deserved. While it had its quirks (really the only one was the horrendously designed backstrap/disabling lockout combination), that pistol still shoots better, conceals better, and has more features than the single stack compact 9mms that were released after it. Oh, and it handled 124gr +P like a champ. The PPQ was also ahead of the curve, and still has probably the nicest out-of-the-box trigger (and shortest reset) on a production striker pistol, which only got better as you put more rounds downrange.
It's kind of unfortunate, really, as Walther hits home runs with some of their pistols (the PPQ particularly), and then does boneheaded stuff when designing others (the non-ambidextrous safety on the CCP comes to mind) that really annoys people and ruins an otherwise good product that could have been great. That's probally why the aftermarket support is so sparse for Walther when compared to other brands.
I'll gladly choose to carry a Walther single-stack PPS M1 over any other compact single-stack 9mm on the market today, especially a Shield. The only real quirk that I found with the PPS is that the magazine springs are very stiff, and require down-loading to 5 rounds and cycling around 4 magazines worth through each mag before loading to capacity.
It's worth noting that the PPS is somewhat between a G19 and a P365 in size, but is nearly 1" thick, and doesn't suffer from the lack of "girth" issue that the P365 does concerning the grip (in the normal 365 and XL frames).
Couldn't agree more. I absolutely love my ppq, and ima hard core SA/DA guy that carries a sig pro 2022 and has many other SA/DA pistols. I almost always carry my sig pro because it's kind of the best of both worlds for me and I've done some stuff to it as well.
That said, I love the ppq and it's a real shame walther hasn't gotten more pub for what these done with striker fired pistols and triggers. The range of options in size ect for the Walthers + the triggers is just fantastic. I'd highly recommend if a striker fired pistol is what you want to carry. There isn't another striker trigger that compare and the walther shoot as well as any, seriously.
Well, I was debating for the last few days to add another Glock 19 to the family, or a P10C. This thread steered me to the CZ. I guess my only hang up was I have holsters and magazines coming out of my ears for the glocks, but the CZ porn/reviews pushed me over the edge.
Thanks
Thanks
IWB carry rules:
- Buy your pants one size too big.
- Have a proper belt.
- Find holsters that you're comfortable with.
- It's gonna feel a little weird at first. Just deal with it and your skin will adjust.
- Wear an undershirt no matter how hot it gets. If you served in the military this shouldn't be an issue.
Can't go wrong with the PPQ. The P99AS is nice but putting a RDS on it is a pain in the ass.
I'm 110% in on pistol optics so that matters to me.
The P10c will fit into Glock 19 holsters a lot of the time
This is good advice. Appendix IWB is the best carry method, don’t be afraid of it. Use a GOOD holster with a claw (ANR, Tier1, etc). Gun belts like the Blue Alpha Hybrid make a big difference.
I don’t ever wear an undershirt. I have Gadsden Dynamics gym shorts with belt loops that I use the Velcro inner belt of my blue alpha range belt in as a gun belt, and I run with my g45. No chafing or discomfort.
If you are used to the Shield, why not the M&P 2.0 compact? I went from glocks to M&Ps due to the grip angle, the M&P's just feel so much better.
I took advantage of the blue label program and have a 43X on the way, willing to give them another go with the SA 15rd mags.
Once 9mm comes back around at decent prices, I'd love to try a Shadow 2 in place of my M&P pro for steel challenge.
I took advantage of the blue label program and have a 43X on the way, willing to give them another go with the SA 15rd mags.
Once 9mm comes back around at decent prices, I'd love to try a Shadow 2 in place of my M&P pro for steel challenge.
I used to fall in the "grip feel" trap a lot.
Putting bullets on target in a measurable way (group sizes, splits, vertical deviation, etc) has taught me that what feels good in the store or during dry fire sometimes does not work well at all once the gun starts to jump around.
2020 has been kind of a breakthrough year for me in handgun shooting because of how much time and deliberation I've applied to it. I've become much better at evaluating the effect that subtle changes in grip shape, strength, and anatomical angles (wrists, elbows, shoulders, neck, etc) have on pistol shooting performance and it has made me more rigid in some ways and more flexible in others about what I like and don't like in a pistol.
Still have a long way to go and much to learn.
I shoot the gen 1 M&P pro well, with a apex kit and 21rd mags it is fast. If there is a better polymer gun out there, it hasn't been in my hand yet.
I'd like to try the 2.0 Pro but don't see shooting many comps this year due to ammo shortages.
I'd like to try the 2.0 Pro but don't see shooting many comps this year due to ammo shortages.
I'll add to this list, as it pertains to Appendix IWB carry, which makes larger guns all but disappear on people if you are remotely athletically built. I'm not a big dude, and I can appendix a G34 with an X300 no problem. I cannot perform the same magic with strong side IWB.
With appendix IWB, make sure that you deliberately and consciously holster your pistol, every single time. I cannot understate this enough, especially with striker fired pistols without exterior safeties or a way to perceive trigger travel. There are aftermarket parts (like the Tau Development Group "Gadget" - now called the SCD I believe) that will help solve this issue for striker fired guns (Glocks particularly), but nothing beats either an exposed striker (Walther PPSM1, P99) or a hammer (either DA/SA or otherwise) to help identify and mitigate such an issue. The penalty for learning by experience is particularly high, given how appendix carry rides for many. The solution is training, but an extra level of safety isn't a bad thing here either.
Another thing that you should invest in that is totally overlooked for IWB holsters in generally are good belt clips. I used to think that Discreet Carry Concepts clips were a bit of a fad, and then I tried them. They make a huge difference, and I am convinced that, for carrying life-safety equipment on a belt, they are the best clips on the market, period. They will grab to a belt and also to clothing equally well, and you can adjust the cant on them to dial everything in. I never thought that I would actually care about the belt clips that I would use, but I do, and these are the best that I've tried, and are low-profile and durable as hell.
This is the kind of subjective, non data driven absolutes that I used to believe and now shy away from.
If my USPSA experience this year taught me anything is that more and more it's the driver not the car.
Not worried about selling them. I was just thinking, between the wife, daughter, and myself, we have four glocks. So, we have some sort of magazine interchangeability going on, to a certain extent. A new brand of handgun would throw that off, and be an odd man out. But, I was probably just overthinking again. I tell you, that P10C felt great in the hands though. Much better than my block.
I don't think that you're overthinking this. If CZ had decided to make the P10C accept Glock mags, I bet that there would have been a legion of new CZ converts due to the amount of Glock owners there are out there with hundreds of dollars invested in Glock magazines alone. They didn't though.
Once you're invested in magazines for a particular pistol and particular caliber, many choose to make things logistically and financially simple.
Cz p10c is a great in between for both of those. It has one of the best triggers on a striker fire i have ever used and great height over bore axis. I have a 19x and love it but could see where it might not be the best carry gun depending on how big you are. I believe striker fire guns are the future and the rest is somewhat antiquated (don’t cry 1911 fan boys). But you cant go wrong with Glock or cz
Stock vs stock or tuned vs tuned, there isn't a single striker fired pistol that can equal, let alone best, a DA/SA.
Then it would not have the fantastic grip that it does. It would be wider and possibly longer (fwd to back) to fit the thicker Glock magazines.
Have you shot a Walther PPQ M1? As far as stock striker fired pistols go, I would go as far as to say this particular trigger is absolutely on par with many DA/SA guns.
That's a great point.
That is a unique opinion. Every police department and military in the world uses striker fire for a reason. All the super cool 3 gun guys use da/sa but that’s about it when it comes to actual professionals
No, not all of them do.
Striker fired pistols are easier for the lowest common denominator to deal with. That's about it.
Professionals, for the most part, deal with what they're issued and most don't even give much of a shit about shooting ability past passing their annual qual.
That's a bold statement. I'm pretty sure, and this is just what immediately comes to mind, that Czech Police still use a CZ 75 as their standard issue.
I disagree. I see the advantages of a da/sa in competition setting when you can carry with your hammer back, your life is not in danger and you can take advantage of the nicer trigger (that gap is small in regards to a stock p-10c). But for a duty setting it is not good because the variance in trigger pull weights. Consistency is key in shooting and shooting hammer pairs with two different trigger pulls is not consistent and that is why Leo and mil don’t use them anymore.
Definitely was a bit of an exaggeration. And this argument has been drawn out on every forum. I have owned DA/SA pistols and am not a fan. Most American military units that get to choose their sidearm rock Glock 19’s.
Police and military are usually the opposite of firearms experts. Remember how many departments switched guns because you have to pull the trigger to take the slide off a Glock.
There are great striker fired guns; the Walther Q5 trigger is probably better than my Cajunized SP-01T but I haven't played with them at the same time.
Top-tier striker guns don't touch top-tier hammer guns.
Nations that produce their own weapons tend to use them over other options, even if other options are better *cough* Czech Republic *cough*
Glocks are very reliable but the best Glock trigger is still just... meh.
Rifles are for fighting. Handguns are for concealing and convenience.
There are great striker fired guns; the Walther Q5 trigger is probably better than my Cajunized SP-01T but I haven't played with them at the same time.
Top-tier striker guns don't touch top-tier hammer guns.
Nations that produce their own weapons tend to use them over other options, even if other options are better *cough* Czech Republic *cough*
Glocks are very reliable but the best Glock trigger is still just... meh.
Rifles are for fighting. Handguns are for concealing and convenience.
First of all, in competition no one uses a DA/SA pistols in divisions where you can start cocked and loaded. I could say more but your statement tells me you don't really know how DA/SA pistols are used in competition.
Secondly, the importance of hammer pairs is vastly overrated in almost all situations outside of flexing for Instagram. Even in competition, which is something I do a lot of. In any case most cops and soldiers couldn't get 2 alphas on a USPSA target at 7 yards shooting .25 splits no matter what pistol you gave them.
Third, with a modicum of practice the transition between the first DA shot and the rest of them in SA is seamless.
LEO and most militaries use striker fired pistols because they are easier for the lowest common denominator to use.
You are a joke if you think the military units that carry Glock can’t get two alphas at 7 yards with a solid time. USASOC carries gen 3 MOS, which you can’t buy as a civi, and NSW carries gen 4 MOS with a threaded barrel. CAG carries gen 3 RTF2 17s and gen 5 mos 17. Those are some of the most elite military units in the world. And I’m sure they are great shooters lol. And they choose what they carry for a reason. Shooting paper targets for time With little jerseys on is different than choosing a weapon for real world applications.
The joke is your lack of ability to read for comprehension. I said most soldiers and cops. Not all soldiers and cops.
And what is with your gear queer strawman arguments? I can't buy a Gen 3 MOS? So the hell what? As if that meant anything.....
Sounds like you can't shoot a DA/SA pistol very well.
I don’t use them because they are antiquated in real world applications. I feel like that is hard for you to understand so I listed our most elite units and what they carry. Trying to discredit my shooting abilities doesn’t bolster your argument lol. If you want to run around in a jersey and shoot paper targets for time I’m sure da/sa are great. But there is a reason out most elite units switched from Da/sa to striker fired. “Shitty shooters can only shoot striker fired” isn’t a legitimate argument.
You mean HK. They are almost identical guns but HK has way more aftermarket, parts availability and HKUSA customer service is first rate.
Good Luck Getting replacement parts or anything other than 1 or 2 options for sights/holsters/ect from Walther.
What's your expertise in "real world applications" to make that statement?
What's the difference between a 1.75 sec draw with a striker fired pistol and a 1.75 second draw with a DA/SA?
There is no difference. You just think one is better and that’s your opinion. That just is not the opinion of PROFESSIONALS. I was a marine 0311. Not part of any elite unit but know people who are and trust their opinions over people who shoot paper targets and claim their antiquated technology is the best lol...
No, that's not what I mean. The HK vp9 is similar in size and looks but it's not the same gun. Not that I have anything against the vp9, it's fine, but it doesn't shoot like the ppq does. The ppq is by far the best shooting striker fired pistol among any production guns. Now the aftermarket options are limited with the walther guns for sure, but there's no issue in getting any replacement parts, not that I've needed them. Some like the vp9 feel better but I think most would agree that the ppq feels better in your hand. I have them both and many more pistols but I stand by what I said about the ppq shooting.
I agree with this. I've shot them side by side, and the VP9 is indeed a fine gun, but the PPQ is a better shooting gun, with a better trigger too.
I picked up a VP9 at a store a few days ago. That grip is a fucking soup sandwich.
This shop had display models tethered to a table. Right next to the VP9 was a gen 1 P-10C. The triggers were so damned close it was a wash. The CZ P-10 has a superior grip shape that actually fits the hand without all these weird bumps.
LOL.......
At least the PPQ has made inroads with national level shooters like Hwansik Kim. And Walther actually had a contingency program where you could make some cash if you won shit with it.
HK? I think you'd have better luck getting shit for your Steyr M9A1 or whatever the fuck they call it today.
Some of you live in a fairy tale world. I have run both for years and in many classes.
Walther makes toys, HK makes shit you take to war. Try getting parts for a ppq, try finding mags or any accessories.
The p10 is a joke and thats why no one bought or buys them.
Walther makes toys, HK makes shit you take to war. Try getting parts for a ppq, try finding mags or any accessories.
The p10 is a joke and thats why no one bought or buys them.
This “professional” (if you wish to call me that) chooses a DA/SA... but what do I know, just a regular dude. Was issued a G17gen4, but this is a superior handgun.
I think some of you need to go to some USPSA shoots with some Leo and military boys. Once you do it for awhile you realize 95% of them can’t shoot worth a damn.
it’s always funny to me. I was a (insert military branch or law enforcement branch here) and I know all of this. In my experience that means you most likely don’t know a thing that you think you do.
look at most police shootings. A ton of rounds fired from 10 different LEO’s and maybe a few hits in target. Accuracy by volume is areal thing lol.
it’s always funny to me. I was a (insert military branch or law enforcement branch here) and I know all of this. In my experience that means you most likely don’t know a thing that you think you do.
look at most police shootings. A ton of rounds fired from 10 different LEO’s and maybe a few hits in target. Accuracy by volume is areal thing lol.
