Advanced Marksmanship Speed Drop - Colby Hodnett

[seansmd]

Folks,

I was listening to the PRM Podcast with Colby Hodnett who at the very end introduced Speed Drop, a way of getting very quick elevation data which seemed similar to me as the wind speed method shared on these forums for MPH of your gun for wind holds.

This is what I believe to understand as he described it, he did it quick.

create a table for your gun:

300	1.1 (real dope)	(300/100)- 1.1=1.9
400	1.8	2.2
500	2.3	2.3
600	3.6	2.4 - Find the largest number
700	4.7	2.3
800	5.8	2.2
900	7.0	2.0

He then goes on to explain to find the largest number and then your acceptable quick action error margin, say 0.2, and use that as your Speed drop number. The third column will start small grow and then shrink again. He says to use the largest number for your gun.

edit: Random target yardage given to you that you need quick dope for
770 yards
770/100=7.7
7.7-2.2=5.5 elevation which is spot on for my 6.5CM


This may be known to many here, but was new to me, and seemed interesting, and quick if someone rattled off a distance, 630 yards, 4.1 elevation.

A couple of questions:
1) this seems to break out around 1k yards, but he explained this for when you don't have time to look at your dope, outside your memorized dope, 300+ yards, and inside a range where you wouldn't have time to use your process. Is there a simple next chunk of math that works out at distance, similar to the MPH wind?
2) At the end he mentioned dialing below your zero, and having your reticle holds line up perfectly, I didn't follow this but I think it would be dial some number below your zero, and then if you have 720 yard target you would hold 7.2(which would deviate from your dope) which would be quick. You would leave your turret dialed below zero, and hold all yardages (divided by 100, 720/100=7.2). Did I hear this correctly, does it make sense?

Not sure if Colby has a hide account.

Precision Rifle Media

www.precisionriflemedia.com

 

[stello1001]

I'm still trying to figure out what "find your largest number" means and why or how you got 770 yards and everything that follows...

 

[seansmd]

I'm still trying to figure out what "find your largest number" means and why or how you got 770 yards and everything that follows...

I edited above, let me know if that clarifies, again I am not sure I fully understand what he was trying to convey, and this is my attempt to translate and ask for smarter folks than me to clarify.

 

[stello1001]

Got it!!!

So the 770 is a given for a random target then...

Hopefully someone that knows this whole thing can come in and get things clear. Like you, now I'm curious to find out lol!!!

 

[seansmd]

Got it!!!

So the 770 is a given for a random target then...

Hopefully someone that knows this whole thing can come in and get things clear. Like you, now I'm curious to find out lol!!!

did you listen to it? fast forward to the end.

 

[Lowlight]

I didn't listen but the Army uses a Rapid Target Engagement Drill where you determine the rifle's number, most use 10, then you look at the hasty mil range of the target and the difference between that number and 10 is mil hold.

it's probably a variation of that, but I won't listen, they usually talk in circles and actually make things harder than they need to be.

You can estimate 1 Mil with a 308 per 100 yards from 300 to about 800. So each new 100 yards you simply add a mil

But they work the 12" and 20" target size for this, During the Gathering, the Army Schoolhouse demonstrated this.

Most of their stuff is lifted from the Army, to begin with.

 

[AIAW]

Oh yeah, the same stuff that they've spurted all the way back to "how to use your Horus reticle" articles. Making the tards think they were subtensioned somehow special.

How to Use the H58 Reticle By Todd Hodnett

Horus Reticle The Horus reticle is a patented grid system replacing the 40-year-old archaic mil-dot shooting method. The Horus reticle is an optically precise uniform grid etched on glass. The er…

horusvision.wordpress.com

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Todd wrote about this method back a few years ago. I have no idea where he got it, but I spent way more time than I probably should have with it.

Here is what I tumbled to...

The first 500 yards of a rifles trajectory is about 90% dependent on that rounds velocity. I don't need a "system" out to 500 yards. Tell me your velocity, and I'll give you a come up.

Todd's system doesn't work real well at 500 and in, because differences in BC don't matter all that much.

What his method does do, is assign a number to the part of the trajectory from 500 to that part where it enters transonic. This is where (angularly speaking) the ratio of drop stays relatively consistent to the additional yardage. So say, with something like a creed, from about 500-900 yards.

Within this range, your round has an average number like 2.4 (IIRC for the creed) that when subtracted from your yardage/100 (835 yards would be 8.35) will put you within a tenth or two of your actual drop.

Once a round gets into transonic it starts falling off the table so to speak, and the method falls apart.

So this method is really only necessary or applicable to that relatively small portion of the trajectory between midrange and transonic.

 

[seansmd]

Todd wrote about this method back a few years ago. I have no idea where he got it, but I spent way more time than I probably should have with it.

Here is what I tumbled to...

The first 500 yards of a rifles trajectory is about 90% dependent on that rounds velocity. I don't need a "system" out to 500 yards. Tell me your velocity, and I'll give you a come up.

Todd's system doesn't work real well at 500 and in, because differences in BC don't matter all that much.

What his method does do, is assign a number to the part of the trajectory from 500 to that part where it enters transonic. This is where (angularly speaking) the ratio of drop stays relatively consistent to the additional yardage. So say, with something like a creed, from about 500-900 yards.

Within this range, your round has an average number like 2.4 (IIRC for the creed) that when subtracted from your yardage/100 (835 yards would be 8.35) will put you within a tenth or two of your actual drop.

Once a round gets into transonic it starts falling off the table so to speak, and the method falls apart.

So this method is really only necessary or applicable to thar relatively small portion of the trajectory between midrange and transonic.

@Skookum thank you, that is what it seemed, he said 300 and out, but when I looked at my data it was a bit farther out. Sounds like I captured what he was saying, value is much more limited than the MPH for wind holds.

 

[Hawkguy29]

I’ve used speed drop and it’s very effective. No need for any ballistic solver after you do the math!

 

[Jack Master]

I finally listened to this podcast. This system is interesting, and it does work.

Here is the chart I used to choose what range this method can be applied to my 6.5 Creedmoore. The valid range of use is increased or decreased by choosing a higher or smaller factor. This also changes how accurate you are at the middle and edges of the range. My top factor is 2.6 (In Heavy box), I choose a factor of 2.5. This will put me 1/10th (.3MOA) low at the center of the range and 1/10th (.3MOA) High at the edges of the valid range. If I wanted to stretch the valid range of this method I could choose a 2.4 factor. this will make me 2/10ths (.7MOA) high in mid range and the same low at the edges of the range. This is "choosing the amount of acceptable error" Colby talks about.

2.5 Factor
Valid Range = 425 to 825 yards

2.4 Factor
Valid Range = 325 to 900 Yards

I added the MOA column to the charts to better understand the limitations of the method. If we apply this to Target shooting (not a military application) the targets are usually in the 1 to 2 MOA. I wanted to stay below 1/2 MOA for my use, this is how I choose the 2.5 to the factor I will use. 2.5 is also an easy number to do the head math.
And, Don't forget density Altitude will effect this factor as well. If your DA has a big change, you'll need to alter you factor.

One thing I noted from the podcast was Colby's comments about this works best for higher BC bullets after 300 yards. After working the numbers I see how this is true. I don't own a 6mm but would be interested to see how well it works for that speedy caliber. Your valid range will certainly get larger. I would also be interested in seeing how this works for larger calibers like the 338 pr 300prc. The longer flatter shooting calibers will also add more valid range.

I think this method is meant for a hasty quick dial or hold number, and if time is available, may not be our best option but it sure is valid if you had to use it.

 

[seansmd]

I finally listened to this podcast. This system is interesting, and it does work.

Here is the chart I used to choose what range this method can be applied to my 6.5 Creedmoore. The valid range of use is increased or decreased by choosing a higher or smaller factor. This also changes how accurate you are at the middle and edges of the range. My top factor is 2.6 (In Heavy box), I choose a factor of 2.5. This will put me 1/10th (.3MOA) low at the center of the range and 1/10th (.3MOA) High at the edges of the valid range. If I wanted to stretch the valid range of this method I could choose a 2.4 factor. this will make me 2/10ths (.7MOA) high in mid range and the same low at the edges of the range. This is "choosing the amount of acceptable error" Colby talks about.

2.5 Factor
Valid Range = 425 to 825 yards

2.4 Factor
Valid Range = 325 to 900 Yards

View attachment 7200835

I added the MOA column to the charts to better understand the limitations of the method. If we apply this to Target shooting (not a military application) the targets are usually in the 1 to 2 MOA. I wanted to stay below 1/2 MOA for my use, this is how I choose the 2.5 to the factor I will use. 2.5 is also an easy number to do the head math.
And, Don't forget density Altitude will effect this factor as well. If your DA has a big change, you'll need to alter you factor.

One thing I noted from the podcast was Colby's comments about this works best for higher BC bullets after 300 yards. After working the numbers I see how this is true. I don't own a 6mm but would be interested to see how well it works for that speedy caliber. Your valid range will certainly get larger. I would also be interested in seeing how this works for larger calibers like the 338 pr 300prc. The longer flatter shooting calibers will also add more valid range.

I think this method is meant for a hasty quick dial or hold number, and if time is available, may not be our best option but it sure is valid if you had to use it.

@Jack Master this lines up with what I heard, and he did mention the benefit being for a hasty quick dial. I appreciate you going through the data and creating the charts.

 

[Jack Master]

2) At the end he mentioned dialing below your zero, and having your reticle holds line up perfectly, I didn't follow this but I think it would be dial some number below your zero, and then if you have 720 yard target you would hold 7.2(which would deviate from your dope) which would be quick. You would leave your turret dialed below zero, and hold all yardages (divided by 100, 720/100=7.2). Did I hear this correctly, does it make sense?

Here is a chart to change your Dials so you can hold your yardage. This only works in the effective range zone. You'll still need your charts or memorized data above or below the effective zone. With a flatter shooting 6mm this is less of an issue.

1. Keep your rifle and scope zeroed at 100yards.
2. Slip your caps so your 100 yard zero lines up with your Factor (2.5 for me)
3. In the effective range of this method, Dial your Yardage. At ranges above and below the effective range you'll need to reference your charts.

Here is a chart for what my scope would read - Dial Setting
You'll see in the 425 to 825 yard range I am one 1/10th high or low from the yardage number.

 

[seansmd]

Here is a chart to change your Dials so you can hold your yardage. This only works in the effective range zone. You'll still need your charts or memorized data above or below the effective zone. With a flatter shooting 6mm this is less of an issue.

1. Keep your rifle and scope zeroed at 100yards.
2. Slip your caps so your 100 yard zero lines up with your Factor (2.5 for me)
3. In the effective range of this method, Dial your Yardage. At ranges above and below the effective range you'll need to reference your charts.

Here is a chart for what my scope would read - Dial Setting
You'll see in the 425 to 825 yard range I am one 1/10th high or low from the yardage number.

View attachment 7200873

So you would slip your turret down 2.5(-2.5 @ your 100y zero), this was the part that I couldn't connect?
I think I have it backwards

 

[Jack Master]

So you would slip your turret down 2.5(-2.5 @ your 100y zero), this was the part that I couldn't connect?
I think I have it backwards

I think we would slip our turret up +2.5 rather than down.
Shooting 100 yards - Dial reads 2.5
Shooting 600 Yards - Dial reads 6.0
Shooting 734 Yards - Dial reads 7.3

Maybe for the faster, hotter, flatter cartridges this changes. I am not sure.
Colby talks about 100 = 1 mil, 200 = 2 mil Etc... but I can't get that math to work out in any way.

 

[seansmd]

I think we would slip our turret up +2.5 rather than down.
Shooting 100 yards - Dial reads 2.5
Shooting 600 Yards - Dial reads 6.0
Shooting 734 Yards - Dial reads 7.3

Maybe for the faster, hotter, flatter cartridges this changes. I am not sure.
Colby talks about 100 = 1 mil, 200 = 2 mil Etc... but I can't get that math to work out in any way.

HAHA! I knew I had it ass backwards, that makes perfect sense.

 

[Milf Dots]

Here's what will work for ME: Once I put together a precision rifle, I'll get training from Frank, I'll study and practice THAT, and then I'll know WTF I'm doing.
Until then, if I'm on any future game show such as 'Sniper of Fortune', I'll use a "life line" to contact Lowlight and Co. when a question stumps me!

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Here is a chart to change your Dials so you can hold your yardage. This only works in the effective range zone. You'll still need your charts or memorized data above or below the effective zone. With a flatter shooting 6mm this is less of an issue.

1. Keep your rifle and scope zeroed at 100yards.
2. Slip your caps so your 100 yard zero lines up with your Factor (2.5 for me)
3. In the effective range of this method, Dial your Yardage. At ranges above and below the effective range you'll need to reference your charts.

Here is a chart for what my scope would read - Dial Setting
You'll see in the 425 to 825 yard range I am one 1/10th high or low from the yardage number.

View attachment 7200873

It's just turning your standard turrets into a very half assed BDC in my opinion. A piece of masking tape and a sharpie would be easier use, and more precise to boot.

But the primary reason this exists, is that it is an attempt at making the author of it look smart to noobs.

 

[Jack Master]

It's just turning your standard turrets into a very half assed BDC in my opinion. A piece of masking tape and a sharpie would be easier use, and more precise to boot.

But the primary reason this exists is that it is an attempt at making the author of it look smart to noobs.

I totally agree the masking tape would be easier and more accurate. I hadn't really thought of it but it sure makes more sense.

 

[Luke]

This math stuff makes my head hurt...I use a Sharpie and either write my come-ups on the side of my stock, or on one of those PVC patches that are sold in the SniperHide PX. Significantly faster than trying to do even basic math when you're in a hurry. Once you use your come-up chart a few times you memorize them and it become second nature.

 

[hlee]

Someone on this site once said- to paraphrase- if you’re doing math behind the rifle, you’re doing it wrong. But, I can’t, remember, who...

 

[M8541Reaper]

Guys, no one is doing the math in the field. If they are, they aren’t on the glass for blood. This, as with all other speed/field methods, are jumping off points to establish your actual data for when you are shooting for blood/money.

Each instructor and shooter has their own twist on things, so there’s hundreds of ways to skin a cat but each can only lead to one of two results...a hit or a miss. Pick the one that gets the hit, makes sense, and that you can do without the aid of reference.

This is nothing more than another tool for your toolbox so don’t overthink it or get flustered.

Learn as much as you can, master what works for you, memorize your home DOPE, and have fun.

?

 

[Lowlight]

Here is a great rule of thumb with no math

308 = 1 Mil every 100 yards from 300 to 800

6.5 Variants = .8 Mil every 100 yards from 300 to 900

I just go up, .8 mil up and you are good

or if you have a factory 308, just add a mil

 

[Changed]

That kid sounds just like his dad. I couldn't make it through the show. ”One meal at 300 meters. Left two meals for a 15 mile-n-ehr.”

I can’t stand listening to Kirk fumble through interviews. It would be a great show if he did just an hours worth of research. Seems like he goes in blind ever time; no show prep at all.

 

[opus56]

I listened to the podcast as well and worked out a constant for my rifle. For me, the math lines up from 650yds to 1200yds. So it's a simple subtraction problem that is accurate to within .1 mils for my set up.

@The_Count - I have to agree with you though on Kirk's interviewing skills (or lack of skills). Unless the guest is someone I really want to hear from, I just skip his podcast. A little prep would sure go a long way for him.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I listened to the podcast as well and worked out a constant for my rifle. For me, the math lines up from 650yds to 1200yds. So it's a simple subtraction problem that is accurate to within .1 mils for my set up.

You have a single number that works for you from 650 to 1200 and keeps you within 0.1 mil? I would be very interested in knowing that load and number and your altitude.

 

[opus56]

RL-16 - 43gr w/ 140 ELDM's in Lapua brass with CCI-450's going 2915 @ 5013' @ 65F. 6.5CM, 24" Proof barrel. My constant is 3.3.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

RL-16 - 43gr w/ 140 ELDM's in Lapua brass with CCI-450's going 2915 @ 5013' @ 65F. 6.5CM, 24" Proof barrel. My constant is 3.3.

Running your numbers in JBM it looks like:
600, 3.0mils---3 difference
700, 3.9mils---3.1 difference
800, 4.8mils---3.2
900, 5.7mils---3.3
1000, 6.8mils---3.2
1100, 7.9mils---3.1
1200, 9.0mils---3.0

You would be better served by 3.2 according to JBM.

Your combination of altitude, bullet and speed, are literally the best case, "Goldilocks" scenario to make this work. It doesn't work nearly as well for almost any other combination.

When I was playing with this a couple years ago, I was searching for the combo that would make this work best. I found that something like the 6.5x284 at 5,000ft would be optimal for this to work. You happen to have that exact equivalent.

Good shooting.

 

[opus56]

Yeah, I was going between 3.2 and 3.3. 3.3 lined up better w/ the data I pulled from the 4DOF app I usually use. For sure if the altitude or temp changed significantly, the constant wouldn't line up nearly as well.

 

[LastShot300]

Why we should use this? A simple dope chart will do this right and in a split second.

 

[kthomas]

Why we should use this? A simple dope chart will do this right and in a split second.

It's for people too lazy to build and print dope charts yet ambitious enough to go through this goat rope of an exercise.

 

[seansmd]

It's for people too lazy to build and print dope charts yet ambitious enough to go through this goat rope of an exercise.

To be fair that is not what he presented it as, he cleary stated when you don't have time to go to your dope this is his quick method. Right, wrong, or whatever he did not poistion it as an alterntive to dope.

 

[Lowlight]

My question, can you do it, or use it, sans data or do you need data to figure out the constant?

I think what is being said is, when you have to solve for the constant, using verified data, that is what makes it lazy

Can you get this to work minus any data, understanding we need to verify everything eventually, but how do you know it will work and under what conditions

The best example is the weaponized math, it is designed to be used on the range to establish data but gives you a starting point sans data, how accurate it becomes is a factor through verification, but we know it is super close.

 

[LastShot300]

I'm having a hard time to figure out when a shooter, either civvy or mil/LEO wouldn't have enough time to build a proper dope chart and verify it running the established and proper procedures, and even without the verification phase the dope chart if based on solid numbers will serve very well and better than any voodoo-DIY hand-brewed "math"

 

[seansmd]

My question, can you do it, or use it, sans data or do you need data to figure out the constant?

I think what is being said is, when you have to solve for the constant, using verified data, that is what makes it lazy

Can you get this to work minus any data, understanding we need to verify everything eventually, but how do you know it will work and under what conditions

The best example is the weaponized math, it is designed to be used on the range to establish data but gives you a starting point sans data, how accurate it becomes is a factor through verification, but we know it is super close.

I think the analogy is to the wind speed but not as consistent. both require you to have dope, both are a short cut when you don't have time to look up your dope. It seems very limited to me and glad to hear the discussion and verification on what it is, and more importantly what it isn't.

I was just commenting that he wasn't overselling it, he presnted it as a shortcut, not a replacement.

Doesn't seem valuable to me.

 

[seansmd]

I'm having a hard time to figure out when a shooter, either civvy or mil/LEO wouldn't have enough time to build a proper dope chart and verify it running the established and proper procedures, and even without the verification phase the dope chart if based on solid numbers will serve very well and better than any voodoo-DIY hand-brewed "math"

If you listened to it he refers to your real dope as the baseline. He is not positioning this as an alternate to proper dope, this is a shortcut built off of your proper dope.

 

[Jack Master]

This is a tool. It's something new to learn. Its an easy way to quickly calculate dope for a lot of yardage without having to memorize you chart. Sure, if you have a chart you'll use it, we are not trying to replace that. Why the po-poing? If you don't like the method, don't use it.

What is your dope for 582 yards? Do you know yours? Well, I can quickly figure mine if I needed. Maybe it's needed in conversation with a buddy off the line.

How about a totally blind stage at a match? It could be just as quick to figure dope for 582, 730 and 820 without having to get a damn kestral out, or even a drop card from your backpack. Tie this in with the mph wind method and I'm free from data sheets out to 825 in my case.

Its meant for QUICK shots where distance did NOT give you time but you may still get the opportunity. It does not replace your dope cards, but it's another tool in the box.

@lowlight
This is only based on trued dope. This is not a system used unless you've verified it. It's not the same idea as weaponized math.

 

[_Windrider_]

Todd wrote about this method back a few years ago. I have no idea where he got it, but I spent way more time than I probably should have with it.

Here is what I tumbled to...

The first 500 yards of a rifles trajectory is about 90% dependent on that rounds velocity. I don't need a "system" out to 500 yards. Tell me your velocity, and I'll give you a come up.

Todd's system doesn't work real well at 500 and in, because differences in BC don't matter all that much.

What his method does do, is assign a number to the part of the trajectory from 500 to that part where it enters transonic. This is where (angularly speaking) the ratio of drop stays relatively consistent to the additional yardage. So say, with something like a creed, from about 500-900 yards.

Within this range, your round has an average number like 2.4 (IIRC for the creed) that when subtracted from your yardage/100 (835 yards would be 8.35) will put you within a tenth or two of your actual drop.

Once a round gets into transonic it starts falling off the table so to speak, and the method falls apart.

So this method is really only necessary or applicable to that relatively small portion of the trajectory between midrange and transonic.

TH has never had an original thought in his life.

 

[Lowlight]

@Jack Master

i have shot stages in a match and cleaned it in a fast time, this was at Altus

They had targets from 300 to 800 with no ranges given, no ability to range and a time limit that really didn't let you use the turrets. I dont recall if the stage said no dialing but we did not dial dope

I held .8 mil every new target, I put 300 yards on the rifle prior, and they held .8 for my 6.5 out to 800 and it worked 100%

Add a mil, add a mil, add mil, per every 100 yards for a 308, problem solved

 

[_Windrider_]

@Jack Master

i have shot stages in a match and cleaned it in a fast time, this was at Altus

They had targets from 300 to 800 with no ranges given, no ability to range and a time limit that really didn't let you use the turrets. I dont recall if the stage said no dialing but we did not dial dope

I held .8 mil every new target, I put 300 yards on the rifle prior, and they held .8 for my 6.5 out to 800 and it worked 100%

Add a mil, add a mil, add mil, per every 100 yards for a 308, problem solved

But did you hit the 300 yd target?

 

[Lowlight]

I did because it was a 45% IPSC LOL

It's the tiny poppers that mess me up

 

[opus56]

It's just like any other tool...use or don't. If you do, great, share your experience, if not, move on.

 

[Lowlight]

What would be the situation where you don’t have access to your data and it mattered ?

if I am working, I’m on a two way Range I would have my wrist commander - as my line depends on it

if I am at a competition I would consider this the most basic match prep

hunting pretty the same, if I bothered to exercise my legs that much I want the data at my finger tips

maybe in the early days - but today how many ways do we attach our data to either us or the rifle

if I am scrambling from one target to another a wrist commander is too easy to glance at - so I am lost on the why ?

it’s necessary to true so I have data

it’s necessary to ethically hit shit so I want my data

it’s important in competition so again what is the thinking ?

I showed up without it ?

 

[VVhoisJohnGalt]

What would be the situation where you don’t have access to your data and it mattered ?

if I am working, I’m on a two way Range I would have my wrist commander - as my line depends on it

if I am at a competition I would consider this the most basic match prep

hunting pretty the same, if I bothered to exercise my legs that much I want the data at my finger tips

maybe in the early days - but today how many ways do we attach our data to either us or the rifle

if I am scrambling from one target to another a wrist commander is too easy to glance at - so I am lost on the why ?

it’s necessary to true so I have data

it’s necessary to ethically hit shit so I want my data

it’s important in competition so again what is the thinking ?

I showed up without it ?

Rifle season this year I was hunting a big public piece that is mostly woods but found myself out in a big swamp. Crawled up in a tree hanging off limbs to glass the swamp over the alders 800yd+ line of sight.

I was using my hunting rifle with very similar load to what I shoot in my competition rifle. Spotted a good buck at 550. Phone was in my pocket under 3 layers of clothing (cold and sleeting) and no way to access fairly quick to get exact drop. I don’t have a dope sheet on the rifle since there is rarely a time when we shoot over 200yds.

So I used my “average drop number” which seems very similar to how this speed drop thing works. Take the yards minus average and that is the hold.

Took my shot after estimating wind hold and he humped up and ran 60yds before expiring from a double lung shot.

I think thespeed drop thing is just something nice to know...the concept is what is interesting and helps. I don’t know or shoot anywhere near as much as you guys that are trashing this system. I think you guys just know way more than the average person and don’t understand how the concept can help an average shooter. Just another tool in the bag.

But there are definitely situations where the average shooter/hunter can use things like this. I wouldn’t have taken that shot if I didn’t know I would hit within a couple inches. Glad I knew the concept or I wouldn’t have shot a really nice buck.

 

[Mormegil87]

I carry three types of data with me to matches. My kestrel, a dope card/wrist coach and my phone. I like redundancy. I'm switching over to 6GT this year and have a dedicated data book set up that will include the SH truing pages and the new wind rose and come up sheets from weaponized math. Hopefully get the kestrel, my hard data and 4DOF to all line up relatively close. I'll just have to do the work on the front end to save the headache on the back end.

As far as Kirk's interview style when I'm on the show. I prefer to just shoot the shit like the old buddies we are. We usually just talk about my match prep and all the gear I've gone through. So usually it's nothing technical. That being said I can't listen to the Hodnett interviews. Mainly because it's Hodnett.

 

[LawnMM]

Every time I see the name Hodnett I think:

"Here comes another solution in search of a problem"

Dope is stupid easy to come by. Print charts in JBM for free, use apps for free, use a Kestrel and it'll solve for the distance using live data!

I'm supposed to use this when I haven't bothered to print a chart, didn't download an app or my phone is dead, and I never spent the money on a Kestrel...AND there's some urgency to take a shot past 500yds that threatens me personally AND prevents me from taking the 3 seconds to consult an alternative method already mentioned.

When the hell is that happening? How you could be on a two way range without a basic drop chart for fast reference is beyond my ability to comprehend.

Hence, a Hodnett solution to a non existent problem.

 

[308pirate]

Put me in the "how the fuck is this even remotely useful" group.

 

[308pirate]

I finally listened to this podcast. This system is interesting, and it does work.

Here is the chart I used to choose what range this method can be applied to my 6.5 Creedmoore. The valid range of use is increased or decreased by choosing a higher or smaller factor. This also changes how accurate you are at the middle and edges of the range. My top factor is 2.6 (In Heavy box), I choose a factor of 2.5. This will put me 1/10th (.3MOA) low at the center of the range and 1/10th (.3MOA) High at the edges of the valid range. If I wanted to stretch the valid range of this method I could choose a 2.4 factor. this will make me 2/10ths (.7MOA) high in mid range and the same low at the edges of the range. This is "choosing the amount of acceptable error" Colby talks about.

2.5 Factor
Valid Range = 425 to 825 yards

2.4 Factor
Valid Range = 325 to 900 Yards

View attachment 7200835

I added the MOA column to the charts to better understand the limitations of the method. If we apply this to Target shooting (not a military application) the targets are usually in the 1 to 2 MOA. I wanted to stay below 1/2 MOA for my use, this is how I choose the 2.5 to the factor I will use. 2.5 is also an easy number to do the head math.
And, Don't forget density Altitude will effect this factor as well. If your DA has a big change, you'll need to alter you factor.

One thing I noted from the podcast was Colby's comments about this works best for higher BC bullets after 300 yards. After working the numbers I see how this is true. I don't own a 6mm but would be interested to see how well it works for that speedy caliber. Your valid range will certainly get larger. I would also be interested in seeing how this works for larger calibers like the 338 pr 300prc. The longer flatter shooting calibers will also add more valid range.

I think this method is meant for a hasty quick dial or hold number, and if time is available, may not be our best option but it sure is valid if you had to use it.

Why on earth would I go through all that trouble when JBM spits out my dope without all this bullshit?

These Hodnett dudes should get together with that Rex dumbass and form a training company.....for retards.

 

[seansmd]

OK, some of you guys are funny as shit. Clearly some of you didn't listen to this or take the time to understand how it was presented. I don't know this guy, or care if he is an idiot. Many have answered with detail that it is somewhat accurate and not very useful. Thank you.

1) was not presented as an alternative to dope, actually he said you need accurate dope to find the "number"
2) it was presented as a method to use when you CANT get to your dope. As the hunter highlighted above, had his dope, was in a position he couldn't get to it, and I believe his target moved, etc. I, as a new shooter, could envision writing down the wrong dope on my wrist coach. and shooting over or under a target, clarifying the distance and quickly in my head seeing my error.
3) new shooters like me don't yet have dope committed to memory, and can be quickly in the ball park for a 670 yard shot without the benefit of going to my dope.

Like Lowlights method for 308, and some other methods shared here, these shortcuts, especially for new shooters are helpful in building confidence in the drops for a given gun/ammo. 670 yards, 2.2(my number) off of 6.7, 4.5, my DOPE is 4.4 quick in my head my dope verification. send it, or why did I write down 2.4, shit hold over and send it.

I get this guy might be like Rex and nails on a chalkboard to most of you, and I am not arguing that. But it is a quick math in your head to verify your dope.

 

[308pirate]

OK, some of you guys are funny as shit. Clearly some of you didn't listen to this or take the time to understand how it was presented. I don't know this guy, or care if he is an idiot. Many have answered with detail that it is somewhat accurate and not very useful. Thank you.

1) was not presented as an alternative to dope, actually he said you need accurate dope to find the "number"
2) it was presented as a method to use when you CANT get to your dope. As the hunter highlighted above, had his dope, was in a position he couldn't get to it, and I believe his target moved, etc. I, as a new shooter, could envision writing down the wrong dope on my wrist coach. and shooting over or under a target, clarifying the distance and quickly in my head seeing my error.
3) new shooters like me don't yet have dope committed to memory, and can be quickly in the ball park for a 670 yard shot without the benefit of going to my dope.

Like Lowlights method for 308, and some other methods shared here, these shortcuts, especially for new shooters are helpful in building confidence in the drops for a given gun/ammo. 670 yards, 2.2(my number) off of 6.7, 4.5, my DOPE is 4.4 quick in my head my dope verification. send it, or why did I write down 2.4, shit hold over and send it.

I get this guy might be like Rex and nails on a chalkboard to most of you, and I am not arguing that. But it is a quick math in your head to verify your dope.

You being a new shooter, you might want to listen when really experienced professionals like Lowlight say this system is mostly a meritless gimmick