Rifle Scopes Spotter decision.

[hydro556]

I am looking for opinions/advice from some of you guys who are blessed with the opportunity to use some of the best spotters available.

I currently have, and like, a Kowa TSN 822. I want to know if there is substantial upgrade when comparing it to the following.

Zeiss 85MM FL spotter
Kowa 882 Prominar
Optolyth


Others?

I have spoken to people I trust on the subject, and was told the Prominar Kowa takes a back seat to no one when it comes to spotting scopes.

Use is 99% at the range, in good conditions, trying to spot 308 holes as far and well as possible.

The TSN822 I have now does the job, but can nearly tripling the price get me a more effective tool for my needs?

 

[pj68]

Re: Spotter decision.

556,
You have a GOOD spotter there. I always say" If it ain't broke why fix it?"
If your spotters doing the job keep it. Save your money. Just my .02

SOTA

 

[hydro556]

Re: Spotter decision.

I am just wondering if I can increase the range at which I can discern bullet holes.

 

[sailhertoo]

Re: Spotter decision.

I would like to hear some opinions too.

I'm in the market for a good scope.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Spotter decision.

Better glass will always resolve better, so the achromatic/Flourite Kowa's will do better than the standards.

That said, seeing bullet holes in paper is largely a function of the paper, the lighting, and the target backing.

 

[hydro556]

Re: Spotter decision.

I agree with everything you said, Sobr. But given the same parameters, will the Prominar resolve bullets holes at longer ranges than my current spotter?

 

[Tims]

Re: Spotter decision.

Hydro, try using Shoot and See targets at long range.

 

[padronanniversary]

Re: Spotter decision.

better yet, get a wireless cam. I just set them up for up to 300 yards with small dell mini. My baby monitor even can work at that range

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Spotter decision.

Should, but how much longer range under the same conditions may be expensive to find out. May run onto the law of diminishing returns.

You may consider going to an Fclass or LR Highpower match, chat the folks with nice glass up and see if you can peek at a target frame at distance....

 

[steve123]

Re: Spotter decision.

I looked through an 883 prominar recently and was awestruck!Yes they are superior to look through than all the other high end glass!The definition was almost unbelievable.I could see dust and spider webs on the lights in the NRA show that I could not even discern with the other scopes.



Steve

 

[soreloser]

Re: Spotter decision.

have you looked at the USO spotter?

 

[palma]

Re: Spotter decision.

USO does NOT have good glass in their spotter.

 

[HuDisCo]

Re: Spotter decision.

Have you considered the Spotter 60?

Mil-Spec, Rubber Armored, Illuminated FFP reticle, Sealed and nitrogen purged case, hardpoint attachments for accessories.

Folded path design allows 10cm of periscope usage and a slower optical system that takes greater advantage of the fluorite crystal objective lens.

 

[pinzmann]

Re: Spotter decision.

Are these "Spotter 60" in stock anywhere? Whose selling them?

 

[HuDisCo]

Re: Spotter decision.

http://hudisco.com/dealers.htm

 

[M21tactical]

Re: Spotter decision.

Nice spotters. But at $5k a pop, that's a little to rich for me. SWFA and Bear Basin has them.

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: Spotter decision.

Personally for shooting at a long distance it is cheaper and easier to just buy / make a steel target and get yourself a rattle can of white paint. You'll be able to see splash with a Tasco....

Wanna see just how tight your shooting? Set up a paper target right next to the steel and check / tape when you repaint or pack up.


Just me.

Good luck

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: Spotter decision.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">USO does NOT have good glass in their spotter. </div></div>

Interesting. What specifically did you note? What were you comparing it to?

I *think* I remember reading about fussy eye relief but not about glass quality.



Good luck

 

[KHOOKS]

Re: Spotter decision.

I had a chance to use the Spotter 60 last weekend. I can say no other spotter I've used will even compare to it. We had a pouring down rain and you could still spot 308 holes at 440 yards on 30 power and on 60 power could see them even better. Just a amazing spotter buy oncee cry once you will not find better out there. Until you look thru one you won't beleive the clarity.

 

[M21tactical]

Re: Spotter decision.

Mo_Zam_Beek,
I totally agree with you on this one. In real world situations mirage is usually the limiting factor. I spent a weekend shooting out to 960 yds. and the mirage rendered many spotters to low powers (including a nice Zeiss). The good glass at low power is still nice, but the mirage tends equalize them. As you say with most spotters you can see the splash on the steel fairly well at distance.

 

[HuDisCo]

Re: Spotter decision.

M21,
You have touched on a critical point that separates spotters, and riflescopes for that matter. Resolution and magnification are not the same thing. This is what really separates the field. Having a higher quality low power image is much more important than lots of magnification with no detail. In less than ideal conditions (bad mirage especially), 30x is about the most magnification that you can reasonably expect to use. This is where the Spotter 60 excels. Lowlight has spent a significant amount of time behind the Spotter and can back me up on that. It is during adverse weather and lighting when the difference really becomes apparent.

 

[Dogtown]

Re: Spotter decision.

Still, that's a tough one to justify costwise, being roughly twice as much as what's considered a top shelf spotter, unless of course you're risking your life with it. Still, I'm in the market for a new spotter and the Hensoldt is pretty slick.

 

[HuDisCo]

Re: Spotter decision.

Dogtown, I can appreciate the difficulty of justification. Not everyone needs a Spotter60, but if you ever get a chance to play with one, it will be apparent where the extra money is invested.

 

[Dogtown]

Re: Spotter decision.

Oh no doubt, I believe it. Value is far more important to the hobby shooter than the .mil or LEO shooter, which is why I mentioned "unless you were risking your life."

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Spotter decision.

Nathan is correct about the Spotter 60, it goes beyond "risking your life" quality, it's really without equal, and in our opinion worth every bit of the price tag.

I have compared it against my Zeiss 65 and I can say, having used my Zeiss 85, both with fixed and variable eye pieces, the Spotter 60 with its built in magnification is better than both which ever way you go, fixed or variable.

Honestly I haven't stopped using it since it arrived, and will be using it again tomorrow and Sunday. For someone like myself who spends an exorbitant amount of time behind a spotter, like 5 days a week, for about 6 hours a day, its a life saver. And believe me, before this I religiously relied on the Zeiss line of sport optics, but the Spotter 60 buries them both.

I have also compared it to an Optolyth 80mm and, again, no comparing it, especially in high heat, high mirage situations... the Spotter 60 at 20X is incredible in the worst possible conditions. It averaged well into a 100 many times while using it, and the mirage is a killer, not only do see everything, you see everything including the actual bullet and the fragments as they splash. I can tell you without hesitation between the mirage and wind here, when people during the Sniper's Hide Cup were calling "impacts" on and around the target, I was able to see 75% of them were wrong about their calls, because they were trying to discern dust plumes and not the actual impact, where the Spotter 60 let me see the bullet enter the dirt before the dust rose, among other things.

Does everyone need it, probably not, but every professional should be using it, as well anyone looking to upgrade and they want to separate their spotter from the line of Sport Glasses out there, in that context I can tell you its worth it and its an upgrade from the usual suspects.

 

[hydro556]

Re: Spotter decision.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tim1071</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hydro, try using Shoot and See targets at long range. </div></div>


I use shoot and see's. And they are awesome. On good days I have spotted 308 groups out to 400 yards. Single hits are not terribly difficult to see, but groups can be impossible. I will think I missed the target entirely until I get down there and realize that the shot was part of the group. And I am not implying that the groups are outstanding. I mean 3/4moa groups. It is difficult to see a hole unless it is completely surrounded by black.

Probably wishing for too much, but I would love to be able to consistently spot groups at 400 and beyond. I just like nice glass, too.

 

[hydro556]

Re: Spotter decision.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M21 Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice spotters. But at $5k a pop, that's a little to rich for me. SWFA and Bear Basin has them. </div></div>

Agreed. No way I can spend 5K. Additionally, if it isnt on Scotts website, I am unlikely to buy it. Lot of money to throw out there and I know if I buy it from Scott, I cant lose. I will end up satisfied.

Not implying otherwise with any other vendor, but I have a history with Scott.

 

[hydro556]

Re: Spotter decision.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I looked through an 883 prominar recently and was awestruck!Yes they are superior to look through than all the other high end glass!The definition was almost unbelievable.I could see dust and spider webs on the lights in the NRA show that I could not even discern with the other scopes.



Steve </div></div>

I havent seen one yet, but everything I have heard was positive. It seems like it may be the best value.

I dont for a second doubt Hudisco about the $5K spotter, just dont think I can justify it. Hard enough to consider $2.5K

 

[ptd]

Re: Spotter decision.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HuDisCo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you considered the Spotter 60?

Mil-Spec, Rubber Armored, Illuminated FFP reticle, Sealed and nitrogen purged case, hardpoint attachments for accessories.

Folded path design allows 10cm of periscope usage and a slower optical system that takes greater advantage of the fluorite crystal objective lens. </div></div>

Wow. Custom reticle on request as well.

-pd

 

[sailhertoo]

Re: Spotter decision.

For shooting F Class, what lens do y"all recommend for reading wind/mirage? Varable power? fixed power? wide angle?

I"m thinking I may get a Kowa 833.

 

[flims]

Re: Spotter decision.

has anyone taken any photos or videos through the spotter 60?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Spotter decision.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flims</div><div class="ubbcode-body">has anyone taken any photos or videos through the spotter 60?</div></div>

I have, it's not very good though because I don't have a point and shoot camera and my lenses are a bit aggressive to get a clear picture.

I have some video too, and I will post it, but I think the video camera limits some of the quality to be honest as it doesn't have a manual focus and you're held to what the video camera shows.

But I will be back in Town on Tuesday I will see about getting the video up.