Springfield 7prc accuracy issue.

[BRC351]

New member, but long time SH follower. So here is the run down. I got a brand new springfield Armory waypoint 7PRC with the BSF Carbon Barrel, mounted in a brand new ADM mount, with a brand new NF NXB 4-32 with tremor 3 reticle. Mounted and torqued everything as should be, took it out and got it sighted in and zeroed in 12 rounds, with my final zero group measuring .269inch. I then took it to 902yards and shot about a 5inch 3 round group.

At about round count 25/30, my accuracy started to go out the window. I'm now avarageing anywhere from a 2 inch to 5 inch group. This is all with factory Horandy 180grain ELD-Match ammo. I have contacted both Spring Armory and Nightforce, they have both been super helpful, easy to deal with, and will be sending both the scope and rifle back to their respective manufacturers.

With all that being said, has anyone see this thing happen before and/or what does the group think could be happening?

First picture is initial zero, 2nd. 3rd, 4thpick is rounds on steel at 902 yards, 5th

picture is current grouping, and final picture is rifle.

 

[Shoots 700's]

Loose action screws?

 

[BRC351]

Sorry, should have mentioned, action screws are all tight, scope base is tight, and it has 110 rounds down the barrel.

 

[ForgeValley]

Check the muzzle brake? Have another rifle you can check the scope on?

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Did you clean it? That cartridge is hot. With a dirty powder, you could have a carbon ring already, or maybe just a barrel full of funk.

 

[BRC351]

Check the muzzle brake? Have another rifle you can check the scope on?

Muzzle break is tight no issues there, I have not tried another scope. I don't really want to take one off my MPA or Proof gun, if I don't have too.

 

[BRC351]

Did you clean it? That cartridge is hot. With a dirty powder, you could have a carbon ring already, or maybe just a barrel full of funk.

I have cleaned it several times (carbon only, no stripping out the copper). Even with a clean barrel the accuracy problem is still there. Shot 40 rounds yesterday on a clean barrel same issue (no better or worse as the gun got dirty). Went home, cleaned it again and Shot 20 rounds today same issue. I took everything off, checked the scope for signs of it moving in the mount no issues there. Scope base is tight, cleaned the bore and chamber, going to send scope and rifle back tomorrow.

 

[FuhQ]

Your GPS is just redirecting your route...

 

[Shoots 700's]

Scope base?

 

[BRC351]

Scope base?

Everything tight and torqued to spec.

 

[Terry Cross]

I have not tried another scope. I don't really want to take one off my MPA or Proof gun, if I don't have too.

Why in the world would you walk right past an opportunity to remove 50% of your possible problem?
You have contacted NF and are planning on sending them a scope for inspection but you have no clue if the scope if the culprit?

If somebody returned my product without any clue that the product has problems, I would be aggravated.
I get "customer service" and all of that but those guys are constantly wasting tons of time and resources trying to be nice. Please don't be that kind of customer.

Spend a few minutes to move one of your proven scopes onto the Springfield and get it to the range again.
You don't even have to re-set your turrets. You might even be on paper good enough to shoot a couple of groups without even having to touch your turrets.

You will know in the first couple of groups whether the scope is the issue.

.

 

[lizzardking308]

How bad is the copper fouling?

 

[AccuSol-ERN]

Ditto to Terry.....

Also, check the lot numbers on the ammo.

I have absolutely given up on Hornady "Match" ammo.......especially 7prc. I've seen multiple instances of Hornady Match 7prc go ES of 120fps for 20rnds and visually off COAL.

If you can, grab a box of federal terminal ascent hunting ammo. This ammo has shot well for me, at least consistent enough to tune and prove the rifle can shoot without fully working up a load.

Obviously nothing beats 180hybrid and h4831sc in 7prc though.

Step 1. I recommend stripping the copper out of it, check for carbon ring, and shoot federal ammo. Step 2. Confirm your scope.

I have "solved" a shit ton of accuracy issues with cleaning and good ammo.

Factory ammo has improved in the last 20yrs, but reloading is the way.

Ern

 

[ShtrRdy]

Did you change lot numbers on the ammunition? I've experienced 3-shot group going from 1/4 moa to 1 moa when using Hornady match ammo from different lots. That was in a 6mm Creedmoor with the 108 gr ELD-M.

 

[fdkay]

Sounds like a fairly heavy shooting schedule.
If it's not shooting at ten rounds, it's likely not going to shoot at 40.
Are you sure you haven't burned out your throat already?
Have you checked to see what your jump is?
If it was on the edge of being too long at the beginning, when it was shooting decent, it wouldn't take long to wear the throat, especially if you were getting the barrel really hot.

 

[FuhQ]

Your GPS is just redirecting your route...

I guess nobody got the “waypoint” joke…

 

[FuhQ]

Obviously nothing beats 180hybrid and h4831sc in 7prc though.

I’d be willing to bet that a Berger 195 Elite Hunter backed by IMR 7977, H1000, or StaBall HD would be a much better combo being that it’s a magnum cartridge. H4831 is WAY too fast of a powder for anything larger than an ‘06 based cartridge, IMO.

 

[Terry Cross]

The issue that the OP is experiencing is not caused by the ammo.

 

[AccuSol-ERN]

It will be interesting to see what the root cause is. I went back and looked at the pics.....there are a couple bughole groups in there. Without knowing more specifics it can be anything......including shooter.....haha.

I have seen groups like that from ammo though. Had a 7prc that shot that bad or worse with Hornady CX......but bugholed with federal ammo and tuner brake.

Ern

 

[FuhQ]

It will be interesting to see what the root cause is. I went back and looked at the pics.....there are a couple bughole groups in there. Without knowing more specifics it can be anything......including shooter.....haha.

I have seen groups like that from ammo though. Had a 7prc that shot that bad or worse with Hornady CX......but bugholed with federal ammo and tuner brake.

Ern

Not to be “that guy”, but I’ve read so many of these threads, and heard so many of these same reports from guys who bought one, or were sent one to review… The general consensus is that the issue is engraved on the side of the receiver…They should have stuck to 1911’s.

 

[BRC351]

To answer a few questions in the above replies. The gun has less than 120 rounds down the barrel over the course of about 4 or 3 shooting days each of approximately 2/3 hours. I took precautions of not heating the gun and just hammering out rounds. I will be reloading (once I can find MLR Primers) using Stallball and berger bullets. I have no hard feelings towards springfield or NF, they both have been easy to talk to and more than willing to do whatever is asked.

I have also taken care to clean the barrel each time (I heard about the carbon ring issue on the 7prc). My local gunsmith (who builds high end precision rifles) is also at a loss for what it could be. His recommendation was the scope or something being loose.

I am going to 1 more time take everything off, remount everything, and try different ammo.

I appreciate everyone's continued comments and input.

 

[AccuSol-ERN]

Not to be “that guy”, but I’ve read so many of these threads, and heard so many of these same reports from guys who bought one, or were sent one to review… The general consensus is that the issue is engraved on the side of the receiver…They should have stuck to 1911’s.

Sure, but explain the shoots great then goes to shit. Seems like the more likely culprit is something is loose, severely fouled, bad scope, or bad ammo.

To the OP, keep this thread updated as you figure it out. Out of respect, the manufacturers not at fault in this should be recognized accordingly.

Ern

 

[FuhQ]

Sure, but explain the shoots great then goes to shit. Seems like the more likely culprit is something is loose, severely fouled, bad scope, or bad ammo.

To the OP, keep this thread updated as you figure it out. Out of respect, the manufacturers not at fault in this should be recognized accordingly.

Ern

Shitty barrels. I had this happen with a $2,000+ Weatherby Accumark back in 2012 after about 75 rounds… Shot sub-MOA, then at around shot #75, I was suddenly getting grapefruit sized groups. Gunsmith scoped it, barrel was caving in and had developed over 10 tight spots. Called Weatherby, they refused to warranty their fuckup. Traded it back to the dealer I bought it from, and lost my ass on it.

 

[BRC351]

For the record, I have nothing bad to say about SA or NF. I plan to keep the rifle even if it's bad, I will just have a bartlein barrel put on it. I just sent a fierce twisted rival 6.5prc back because of a short chamber. They have been absolutely amazing to deal with. I sent them pictures and videos of what was happening and they were all about getting it fixed. I understand lemons slip out and I'm not going to get upset about it (unless the manufacturer refuses to fix the problem). So far my MPA 6.5prc and Proof MTR 6.5PRC have been absolutely amazing.

Once I find out what the issue is, I'll definitely let everyone know.

 

[BRC351]

So I think I have narrowed it down to the scope. I took everything off, remounted and torqued everything took it out and shot it just now. I have labeled the groups in order of shots. After the first group I went down .1mil and right .1mil, then shot the 2nd group into one hole (but it went high and right). I then went down .2mil and left .1mil and shot the 3rd group, I then went down .1mil and shot the bottom hole of group 4, I then went up .2mil and shot the top hole of group 4. So it seems the scope will hold zero, but the adjustments are not accurate. Why or how this happened I don't know. As group 2 shows the gun will still shoot a tight group, so I think there is an issue with the scope. Thoughts or ideas?

 

[fdkay]

Hmmm, almost like the highly reputable gunsmith that told you your problem was your scope might have been right.

 

[BRC351]

Hmmm, almost like the highly reputable gunsmith that told you your problem was your scope might have been right.

If your intent was to be sarcastic, 1. I never ruled out the scope or rifle, 2. I fully acknowledged it could be either, and in the effort to save time because I'm working on a shortened timeline due to elk season approaching, I wanted to cover both potential problems. So I'm not sure what your comment adds to the discussion.

 

[fdkay]

If your intent was to be sarcastic, 1. I never ruled out the scope or rifle, 2. I fully acknowledged it could be either, and in the effort to save time because I'm working on a shortened timeline due to elk season approaching, I wanted to cover both potential problems. So I'm not sure what your comment adds to the discussion.

If you would have replaced the scope and tested again as recommended, You would have your answer already and wouldn't need to keep guessing. It would have proven that either the scope was or wasn't the problem. Good luck to you, I do hope you get it sorted in time for your hunt (not sarcasm).
I'm the king of shit that comes loose, even if it has loc tite, and I get frustrated with trying to diagnose problems.
NF might have a loaner if the repairs are going to run into your timetable.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Do you have another scope on a different rifle you could use for the hunt while Nightforce evaluates your NX8?

 

[BRC351]

Do you have another scope on a different rifle you could use for the hunt while Nightforce evaluates your NX8?

I don't but nightforce will have it back before rifle season. Thankfully it's bow season for now..

 

[FuhQ]

I don't but nightforce will have it back before rifle season. Thankfully it's bow season for now..

But what if it's not the scope...? Then you have a properly functioning scope, but not the rifle... If you diagnose now whether it is or is not the scope by putting another known good scope on it, then you can eliminate the variable before your NF even arrives.

For the record, I'm betting it's the barrel. I've heard of this issue with the Waypoints quite a few times before...It's not a new issue if you talk to folks at the small local gun stores (not the big box stores that could care less). I have heard rumor (don't know if it's true or not) that because of the proliferation of these issues with the tensioned barrels, they are going to start building them with actual carbon-wrapped barrels (like Proof & Christensen barrels). I wouldn't get my hopes up, but that's just a rumor I heard about the new barrels.

 

[Ronws]

Something I have learned recently, especially in our summer time. The action can get warm. The actual chamber will be warm. So, after a few rounds, the wisdom is to not load the round and close the bolt until ready to fire in order to fire before the powder has a chance to heat up.

 

[LongRangeAggie]

Just curious, any update on your rifle?

My experience with BSF barrels was shit (two 224V carbon AR barrels). Awful accuracy and only got worse with heat. I don't think they have it down like Proof or Bart does.

 

[BRC351]

Hey yea got both rifle and scope back about 3 weeks ago. Springfield said there was not issues with the rifle, Nightforce said the tracking was fine but there was a issue with the parallax (nothing that would cause an issue like I was having). Went ahead and got a set of nightforce ultra duty 6 screw rings, mounted everything back up and zeroed it.

The gun will shoot sub half MOA 5 shot groups, however it's cold bore shot is significantly off and not predictable and when it warms up, it will shoot all over the place. I don't think BSF has the carbon barrel down like proof, but it's also a hunting gun and not made for rapid and successive shots.

There is also a very significant shift in group size and location after cleaning the barrel of carbon only. As long as I stay around 10 rounds of fire and let it cool it will hold sub moa. Here is a 5 shot group (it only registered 4 shots) of a load I worked up with 180 eld-m, 67 grains of Staball HD, and FGMM magnum primers. I wanted more velocity, but it's also only a 24inch barrel so I'm not to upset.

 

[FuhQ]

Hey yea got both rifle and scope back about 3 weeks ago. Springfield said there was not issues with the rifle, Nightforce said the tracking was fine but there was a issue with the parallax (nothing that would cause an issue like I was having). Went ahead and got a set of nightforce ultra duty 6 screw rings, mounted everything back up and zeroed it.

The gun will shoot sub half MOA 5 shot groups, however it's cold bore shot is significantly off and not predictable and when it warms up, it will shoot all over the place. I don't think BSF has the carbon barrel down like proof, but it's also a hunting gun and not made for rapid and successive shots.

There is also a very significant shift in group size and location after cleaning the barrel of carbon only. As long as I stay around 10 rounds of fire and let it cool it will hold sub moa. Here is a 5 shot group (it only registered 4 shots) of a load I worked up with 180 eld-m, 67 grains of Staball HD, and FGMM magnum primers. I wanted more velocity, but it's also only a 24inch barrel so I'm not to upset.

Damn... That's super slow... I think you can get more out of it than that by swapping to a faster powder. I guess StaBall HD is a tad on the slow side for the PRC/7mmRM/.300WM sized cases. I'd try some IMR 7828 SSC or H1000, if you can get your hands on some. Some other good ones to try would be Alliant Reloder 25 or 26, and Vihtavuori N565 or N170.

That 2,775 is really slow from a 7 PRC. I'm getting only 12 FPS less from a 7mm SAW with a 20" barrel using 47.5 grains of StaBall 6.5 and Berger 175 Elite Hunters... With an ES of 24.6 and SD of 8.5...

 

[BRC351]

I can definitely get faster, I had some loads up in the 2900s but accuracy was not there. This load while being slower, was the best grouping.

 

[FuhQ]

I can definitely get faster, I had some loads up in the 2900s but accuracy was not there. This load while being slower, was the best grouping.

Try some IMR 7828 SSC. It's always worked well for me in the 7mm RemMag, and even in my '06 based cartridges. Good velocities, and relatively temp stable.

 

[AccuSol-ERN]

H4831sc is money in the 7prc.....especially in shorter barrels.

H4831 has never won any drag races.......but holy hell it has been consistent for me in anything I have used it in from long barreled 260rem match rifles to 338winmag hunting rifles and barnes TTSX.

Ern