Tripped, fell and bought this a couple days ago. Always wanted a Trapdoor and this is the nicest one I’ve ever run into.
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Springfield Trapdoor, Model 1888 rod bayonet rifle
- Thread starter Skunk
- Start date
Man we used to be capable of making beautiful things.....
I hope you plan to shoot it!!
Beautiful!
Sirhr
Beautiful!
Sirhr
Range Report Required....and what are you going to do with all those pop-tops?
We still are. Just that people are too cheap to pay for it. Walmart disposable crap in bulk is favored over quality that will last a lifetime…
Sirhr
How does the rifling look at the muzzle? If it's still sharp, you have a shooter. Realize that they cleaned those rifles from the muzzle with a steel ramrod.
So there is a lot of ramrod wear at the muzzles on most of these rifle. I've shot these rifles before with black powder loads that I made up for my Sharps. The trapdoor rifles belonged to some friends.
They had some really nice specimens and you would be surprise at how well they will shoot.
Another amazing fact is that they knew what spin drift was back then. Look at how the sliding bar is canted in the Buffington rear sight!
So there is a lot of ramrod wear at the muzzles on most of these rifle. I've shot these rifles before with black powder loads that I made up for my Sharps. The trapdoor rifles belonged to some friends.
They had some really nice specimens and you would be surprise at how well they will shoot.
Another amazing fact is that they knew what spin drift was back then. Look at how the sliding bar is canted in the Buffington rear sight!
- Nov 3, 2010
- 9,717
- 20,449
My friends dad growing up had one of these. He let us shoot it as much as we wanted. Very cool rifle, good snag and happy shooting
- Nov 3, 2010
- 9,717
- 20,449
Funny, I was talking to a guy at the gunshow about this very thing yesterday. How it’s all about the cheap maybe get two uses from it and I’m happy generation.
All this stuff has been known almost since the beginning of shooting... And what makes it such an amazing pursuit. You and a precision machine against physics. That is all. No excuses, no alibi's. Either beat physics. Or fail. One of the great cerebral sports.
But rifling, spin drift, repeating mechanisms, gain twist, bimetal/composite barrels, staged charges, supported barrels, hex rifling... it's ALL old technology being rediscovered. I keep saying it... but we are in a golden age of firearms design. And those willing to look backwards and think outside the box are going to revolutionize ballistics in the next 20 years. And lots of it is happening RIGHT HERE on SH. Whether overtly or because the 'forum' brings together people, ideas and customers/competitors willing to pay for these advances in a way that deer hunters and USG small arms program managers won't.
Want to look at where the cool future stuff is coming from, look back 150 - 200 years. Or in the case of gain twist... about 500 years to Nuremberg. It was primitive, but it was understood.
I was not aware that the sight was graduated for spin drift... but that is very cool!
Once again, the Vintage Thread is where all the cool stuff shows up!
Sirhr
The bore of this rifle looks perfect. I mean, no shit, brand new. The rifle must’ve stood in somebody’s closet for 120yrs or something. Even the bayonet/bore rod shows very little finish wear.
A better shot of the rear sight…. Like on the 1903 Springfield, precise, but I can’t imagine trying to engage in combat with such a sight!
It will be fired for sure!
A better shot of the rear sight…. Like on the 1903 Springfield, precise, but I can’t imagine trying to engage in combat with such a sight!
It will be fired for sure!
Attachments
Well, remember that the 'long ranges' were not for seriously aimed fire. They were for what was called 'beating' fire. Virtually using the rifle as a mortar a long way away. If you had a whole bunch of soldiers lobbing rounds into an artillery position or even an earthwork, they could drop projectiles in from a very high arc. If you were an artillery crew, and suddenly you had 200 guys dropping .45 bullets on you like rain at the rate of 4 - 5 shots a minute each... then you could drop 1000 rounds into a gun pit -- or behind an earthwork or into a trench -- all at once. That did damage.
The British machine gunners did the same thing out to 2500 yards A whole battery of Vickers at 600 RPM, all firing at the same points behind the German Lines could create steel rain that could kill a lot of men and damage a lot of gear. Not to mention what it did to horses, mules, supply wagons, headquarters tents, quartermaster wagons, etc.
Not all of these sights were made for close-in (300 yards or less) infantry engagements. Lots of volley fire doctrine existed right into the 20th Century.
Sirhr
PS. Imagine your Trap Door against 2000 mounted Sioux... who had repeating rifles and arrows. And were coming at you from every direction. If you have never walked Little Bighorn... it's something anyone should do. It's the only National Cemetery where the graves are laid out where men fell. So you can actually track the battle.... right down to the 'one's and two's' who were killed and stripped trying to escape the "kessel." And for those who accuse Custer of dereliction for not bringing the Gatling guns... Try walking the battlefield. Then Imagine pulling carriage-mounted Gatlings through the wallows, streambeds, arroyos, etc. Not possible. Geographic Determinism... it's the Annales School of military history. Which is that geography determines history. Very true!
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They should have listened to the Crow scouts. They warned of the amount of Lakota in the camp.
As I said before, your 1888 Trapdoor is in a lot better looking condition than mine. The leade in my barrel is badly worn, but it still shoots well with hand loads.
I've had really good luck with Laser Cast 405g bullets. Shooting clay birds at 100 yards, I can hit them more often than not. I've also won a few offhand Vintage Rifle Matches with them.
I've had really good luck with Laser Cast 405g bullets. Shooting clay birds at 100 yards, I can hit them more often than not. I've also won a few offhand Vintage Rifle Matches with them.
I need to get some projectiles. All I currently have are 525gr Postell bullets for my Shiloh Sharps.
For this, I’d like to duplicate the original government 500gr load.
There were both I believe. The crows and Lakota still have bad blood to this day over them helping the blue coats. The latest Jocko podcast is excellent on a historical perspective of the Indian wars of the plains.
405g bullets are the heaviest offered by Laser Cast. I thought most issued 45-70 Government loads were 405g.
If you are going to shoot 300 yards and farther, 500g or 525g bullets may be the way to go. I don't know what chamber pressures you would see, but the Trapdoor does not respond well to higher pressure loads.
Great looking rifle. Good luck with it!!
We shoot the lyman heavy bullet with 11 gr of unique the powder is held in place by a quarter inch thick piece of floral foam pressed in on the powder. Cleans up real easy shoots like mad
Have fun with the rifle!
We shoot the lyman heavy bullet with 11 gr of unique the powder is held in place by a quarter inch thick piece of floral foam pressed in on the powder. Cleans up real easy shoots like mad
Have fun with the rifle!
I'm trying to find the original report on the Sandyhook tests from Springfield Amory but haven't had any luck.
Here's a link to the PDF of an article on those tests. It is well worth the read. Try not to get too aroused when you read that the tests were conducted a whopping 3,500 yards. That's not a typo. You read it correctly; 3,500 yards.
First prize goes to the person who can find a copy of the original Springfield Amory Report.
Here's a link to the PDF of an article on those tests. It is well worth the read. Try not to get too aroused when you read that the tests were conducted a whopping 3,500 yards. That's not a typo. You read it correctly; 3,500 yards.
First prize goes to the person who can find a copy of the original Springfield Amory Report.
Buffalo Arms will have the correct M1881 500gr Bullet.
www.buffaloarms.com
With the 405 gr bullet the Buffington sight won't work properly. Get this book:
Amazon product ASIN 157579019XYou'll want softer lead than most modern bullets are made with.
The .405 were only used until 1881 after the tests at Sandy hook showed that the heavier bullets shot "flatter" at distances past 200. I know I have a pdf of that report somewhere. I'll post it when I can find it
With as good as the condition is on your trapdoor I'd bet that there is little to no muzzle erosion from cleaning it.
.450
.450" Diameter 520 Grain round nose hand cast lead bullets 20-1 alloy SPG Lube for 44-90 Sharps Bottle Neck etc., Black Powder Muzzleloaders etc.
www.buffaloarms.com
Amazon product ASIN 157579019XYou'll want softer lead than most modern bullets are made with.
The .405 were only used until 1881 after the tests at Sandy hook showed that the heavier bullets shot "flatter" at distances past 200. I know I have a pdf of that report somewhere. I'll post it when I can find it
With as good as the condition is on your trapdoor I'd bet that there is little to no muzzle erosion from cleaning it.
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