Springfield Waypoint bad groups troubleshoot help?

[boosted]

Hi all,

I just took my new Springfield Waypoint in 6.5 with the carbon barrel to the range for the first time today... Not impressed! For a gun that guarantees 0.75 MOA, my example was hovering around 1.5 MOA. This is after 100 rounds of Norma 143 Match ammo. Not a good showing when my 16" Scar 17 was consistently putting down 0.75 MOA in between my Springfield frustration!

At this point, I doubt it's the ammo, although I could be wrong as this is the only ammo I've shot through the rifle. At the range, I checked the scope rings, and mount—all were at the same torque spec I initially tightened them down to.

I suspect that the free-floating (or lack thereof) may be the issue. Everything looks good from the outside, but it's possible the barrel is coming into contact with the stock during firing.

I took the barreled action off the stock and found what looks like the slightest bit of rubbing. It's very hard to capture this on camera, but there is a very slight rub mark right along where the forend sits. The carbon sheen really covers it up.

Could this be the culprit? Is this worth sending it back to Springfield for their warranty fix? Or would y'all find a gunsmith to diagnose the issue first?

 

[Bacarrat]

Have you tried different ammo?

 

[b6graham]

If you only tried one ammo theyre probably going to tell you to try a couple more.

Based on the Prime 130 which is norma with a golden target you'd think it would shoot well. But there's basically zero info on the 143GT. And sometimes barrels just really hate some bullets

 

[Mordamer]

The picture of the barrel defect is certainly not the cause of your 1.5 inch groups. Get better ammo.

 

[huntnh]

Loose the Norma and grab some hornady precision hunter and match none of my guns have liked Norma

 

[Trigger Monkey]

I thought it was just me, my Bergara HMR and Bartlein barreled Remington 700 both didn't like Norma 6.5 CM Golden Target.

 

[boosted]

Quick update: it's not an ammo issue. I took it to an indoor 100-yard range and shot the only other ammo I could find. These god-awful groups were shot with Aguila 140gr. Not match ammo, but not bad ammo. I shot 3 groups between 1.5 to 5+ MOA. All shots were made using a lead sled to limit possible human error. On the 5+ MOA group, I'm inclined to think it was just a flyer, but the shot didn't feel like any issues on my end.

I shot one more group with the Norma 143gr GT and it performed about where it did yesterday.

Although I don't know what's wrong with it yet, this gun should have never left the factory. Now the fun part—dealing with Springfield's customer service!

 

[TheOE800]

If you only tried one ammo theyre probably going to tell you to try a couple more.

Based on the Prime 130 which is norma with a golden target you'd think it would shoot well. But there's basically zero info on the 143GT. And sometimes barrels just really hate some bullets

That was the basis on which I bought the 143gr; my experience with the 130gr was very positive. Hope I don’t come to regret it.

 

[Mordamer]

Quick update: it's not an ammo issue. I took it to an indoor 100-yard range and shot the only other ammo I could find. These god-awful groups were shot with Aguila 140gr. Not match ammo, but not bad ammo. I shot 3 groups between 1.5 to 5+ MOA. All shots were made using a lead sled to limit possible human error. On the 5+ MOA group, I'm inclined to think it was just a flyer, but the shot didn't feel like any issues on my end.

View attachment 7859933View attachment 7859935View attachment 7859944

I shot one more group with the Norma 143gr GT and it performed about where it did yesterday.

View attachment 7859940View attachment 7859941View attachment 7859942

Although I don't know what's wrong with it yet, this gun should have never left the factory. Now the fun part—dealing with Springfield's customer service!

You used garbage Aguila ammo to determine it wasn't the ammo causing a problem? That doesn't seem logical.

 

[Mordamer]

Get Hornady 140 ELD-M match or Federal Golf Medal 130 Berger ammo.

What scope and is it new?

 

[Mordamer]

Also, run a dollar bill between the barrel and stock. If it clears from the action to end of stock then lack of free float isn't your problem.

 

[powdahound76]

Lead Sled......
I can shoot accurate rifles and loads pretty darn well.
when I have tried a lead sled (just to see what was up) and my groups doubles in size, at least for me. Cannot get behind it like shooting off a sandbag or bipod with rear bag

Its a 6.5 creed, not a light weight 45-70 single shot with a Grizzly load.
Shoot off a sand bag or bipod.

also, I know its a carbon barrel, but I dont shoot my light hunting rifles in 5 shot groups. just 3.

Personally, would try to shoot 4-5 kinds of good ammo before running down anything else. Tougher now, but doable.
Or handload for it, which is best of course.

 

[clark33]

Like most mentioned above, try some hornady match, berger, fgmm or prime ammo. Also, like mentioned, if you can't slide a dollar bill down between the barrel and the stock I'd personally get some fine grit sand paper and just sand the stock down little by little where it's making contact until it was floating.

I'd try everything before shipping it back, good match ammo, swap scope, check action screws, rail screws etc.

 

[powdahound76]

Sell that fancy thing and buy a tikka…..

Best advice you gonna get.

Used T3 stainless in .308 with VXII scope. $500.
Hornady Black 155 AMAX (used to be $18/box.) 2800 fps from 22” barrel.
3 shots, .7”
Has done better a time or two and thats my average.

 

[Ranchhand]

Check your scope, rings and base.
Just my first impulse.

 

[boosted]

If any other match ammo was available, I'd be trying that first. But the Aguila stuff is the only stuff I could find. While its not match ammo, its not 5 MOA ammo.

It's a Leupold Mk5HD on Spuhr rings. Not new, but its in brand new condition. All the rings, mount, and action are torqued to spec.

It passes the dollar bill test just fine. I can actually squeeze two bills in there. Obviously, the barrel moves around under fire, which is where I think the rubbing on the bottom of the barrel is coming from.

 

[Ranchhand]

Not trying to be a smart ass here. Is everything still torqued to spec? Like you checked every screw?
Stuff comes loose.

 

[boosted]

Not trying to be a smart ass here. Is everything still torqued to spec? Like you checked every screw?
Stuff comes loose.

Yes, everything is torqued to the manufacturer's recommended spec. I double-checked it all at the range after firing, and nothing had loosened.

 

[JS8588]

A data point suggesting it isn't you

 

[Trigger Monkey]

A data point suggesting it isn't you

I wouldn't use that video to draw any conclusions on the rifle, mainly because the shooter even states at 16:38 "Maybe that's cause I suck" as a reason he didn't quite get 3/4" groups.

For every one of those videos where they aren't getting the performance they believe they should be getting there are those that show the Waypoint performing quite well.

 

[boosted]

Tried a different scope on the rifle today. No difference in performance. That narrows down one big variable. Damn this is frustrating!

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Uhhh, so you tried a decent match ammo which may have just not liked, and then you tried absolute garbage ass ammo and made it worse by putting it in a lead sled and you’re saying it’s certainly the gun.

Get a couple different boxes of known good ammo and have someone else that’s a good trigger puller shoot it too. Not in a POS lead sled.

 

[boosted]

Uhhh, so you tried a decent match ammo which may have just not liked, and then you tried absolute garbage ass ammo and made it worse by putting it in a lead sled and you’re saying it’s certainly the gun.

Get a couple different boxes of known good ammo and have someone else that’s a good trigger puller shoot it too. Not in a POS lead sled.

That's much easier said than done when there isn't any ammo on shelves or online. I shot just a few groups with the lead sled and didn't notice any appreciable difference in the rifle's performance from the firing I had done the day prior. So no, the lead sled isn't the cause of the shitty grouping. I shot the rifle today from a concrete bench with a bag using a different scope that I know works, and it performed identically.

Thanks for your input.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

That's much easier said than done when there isn't any ammo on shelves or online. I shot just a few groups with the lead sled and didn't notice any appreciable difference in the rifle's performance from the firing I had done the day prior. So no, the lead sled isn't the cause of the shitty grouping. I shot the rifle today from a concrete bench with a bag using a different scope that I know works, and it performed identically.

Thanks for your input.

So wait until you can get some different ammo to shoot before blaming the rifle.

 

[boosted]

So wait until you can get some different ammo to shoot before blaming the rifle.

The rifle has a .75 MOA guarantee with match-grade ammo. I got 1.5-2+ MOA with quality match grade ammo and much worse with plinking ammo. All the online reviews show much, much better results with similar ammo quality. I'm not gonna wait a few months for other match ammo to show up on shelves before troubleshooting and contacting the manufacturer. 2 MOA with quality match ammo is out of the realm of "the rifle just doesn't like it" for a gun with .75 MOA guarantee.

 

[blackblue]

If any other match ammo was available, I'd be trying that first. But the Aguila stuff is the only stuff I could find. While its not match ammo, its not 5 MOA ammo.

It's a Leupold Mk5HD on Spuhr rings. Not new, but its in brand new condition. All the rings, mount, and action are torqued to spec.

It passes the dollar bill test just fine. I can actually squeeze two bills in there. Obviously, the barrel moves around under fire, which is where I think the rubbing on the bottom of the barrel is coming from.

It's 5 moa ammo in that rifle, 2 choice of ammo isn't a adequate test, I've bad rifles buckshot a couple choices and ragged hole the next, my current creedmoor is 1.5 with american gunner and holes touching with a cobbled together 147 eld hand load.

 

[Captrjc]

Op, what was your cleaning procedure before shooting the rifle?

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Federal has GMM on their website right now. Order a few boxes and try that.

 

[USNavy06]

I take it you don’t reload? I worked up a load of H4350 with 41.5 grs and a Hornady 143 eld-x and it’s 1/2” groups.

 

[eastexsteve]

The rifle has a .75 MOA guarantee with match-grade ammo. I got 1.5-2+ MOA with quality match grade ammo and much worse with plinking ammo. All the online reviews show much, much better results with similar ammo quality. I'm not gonna wait a few months for other match ammo to show up on shelves before troubleshooting and contacting the manufacturer. 2 MOA with quality match ammo is out of the realm of "the rifle just doesn't like it" for a gun with .75 MOA guarantee.

Call Springfield and ask them what ammo they use to proof-test their rifles. Use that ammo.

Troubleshooting a new gun is a pain. But, if you don't, you are in for some long waits and a heck of a back-and-forth shipping bill if you don't do everything to take yourself out of the equation.

I've seen a lot worse than a 2 MOA spread from guns that don't like a particular ammo.

 

[spife7980]

The rifle has a .75 MOA guarantee with match-grade ammo. I got 1.5-2+ MOA with quality match grade ammo and much worse with plinking ammo.

And what every single person is telling you is that you haven’t actually tried any ammo that anyone but you call good. Garbage in, garbage out. You are seeing that first hand.

 

[boosted]

Op, what was your cleaning procedure before shooting the rifle?

I followed BSF's recommended procedure to the T. Solvent and bore brush to clean the barrel out, followed by patches until they came out clean, followed by patches with lubricant. I did this before firing the rifle and in between each of the 5 rounds for the first 20 rounds.

 

[Milf Dots]

Unfortunately, Springfield Armory is just a name and trademark owned by a family who bought the Springfield name when that historical company shut down. Many think it's been the same company all along- it's not.

I'd almost be willing to bet money you'll never see five round groups at a hunny under 1.05 inch- regardless of ammo. My two cents.

 

[jbell]

I followed BSF's recommended procedure to the T. Solvent and bore brush to clean the barrel out, followed by patches until they came out clean, followed by patches with lubricant. I did this before firing the rifle and in between each of the 5 rounds for the first 20 rounds.

Followed by lubricant? Are you not drying the bore before shooting it?

 

[boosted]

Followed by lubricant? Are you not drying the bore before shooting it?

I passed a dry patch through the barrel after the lubricated passes.

 

[shootertom]

Hi all,

I just took my new Springfield Waypoint in 6.5 with the carbon barrel to the range for the first time today... Not impressed! For a gun that guarantees 0.75 MOA, my example was hovering around 1.5 MOA. This is after 100 rounds of Norma 143 Match ammo. Not a good showing when my 16" Scar 17 was consistently putting down 0.75 MOA in between my Springfield frustration!

At this point, I doubt it's the ammo, although I could be wrong as this is the only ammo I've shot through the rifle. At the range, I checked the scope rings, and mount—all were at the same torque spec I initially tightened them down to.

I suspect that the free-floating (or lack thereof) may be the issue. Everything looks good from the outside, but it's possible the barrel is coming into contact with the stock during firing.

I took the barreled action off the stock and found what looks like the slightest bit of rubbing. It's very hard to capture this on camera, but there is a very slight rub mark right along where the forend sits. The carbon sheen really covers it up.

Could this be the culprit? Is this worth sending it back to Springfield for their warranty fix? Or would y'all find a gunsmith to diagnose the issue first?

Here's my suggestion, use the warranty.

I recently purchased one as well the barrel was touching the stock. I called them to set up a repair and thus far they have been very responsive. Yours looks like it may be a barrel and stock replacement and shows visual defects.

On mine they covered return shipping (as they should), I received a response via email letting me know they have it and it would be repaired and returned to me within 2-4 weeks. That was 2 weeks ago, so I am hoping to see it within the next two. This is the first factory rifle I've purchased in a long time, so it was disappointing that it had a defect. I think the price was reasonable compared to custom rifles, but $2300 is still a lot of money and I would expect the fit and finish to reflect that.

 

[boosted]

Here's my suggestion, use the warranty.

I recently purchased one as well the barrel was touching the stock. I called them to set up a repair and thus far they have been very responsive. Yours looks like it may be a barrel and stock replacement and shows visual defects.

On mine they covered return shipping (as they should), I received a response via email letting me know they have it and it would be repaired and returned to me within 2-4 weeks. That was 2 weeks ago, so I am hoping to see it within the next two. This is the first factory rifle I've purchased in a long time, so it was disappointing that it had a defect. I think the price was reasonable compared to custom rifles, but $2300 is still a lot of money and I would expect the fit and finish to reflect that.

Good to hear you've had a positive experience so far. I spoke to one of their tech people in the repair department and he told me that the gun shouldn't be performing as it has with the ammo I used. It's in the mail back to them at the moment.

Did yours pass the dollar bill test? Let me know what they end up doing for you!

 

[shootertom]

Good to hear you've had a positive experience so far. I spoke to one of their tech people in the repair department and he told me that the gun shouldn't be performing as it has with the ammo I used. It's in the mail back to them at the moment.

Did yours pass the dollar bill test? Let me know what they end up doing for you!

i haven’t gotten it back yet. It should be here in the next two weeks so I’ll let you know.

 

[BoJangles]

I just bought one in 6.5PRC and it is shooting 1/2 MOA out of the box.

Did you clean it and make sure there is NO residual lubricant in the barrel? I have had the exact same problem with one of my Bergaras and after a thorough cleaning, it was shooting lights out. Good luck. Hope you get it sorted out. I think it is a great gun.

 

[boosted]

I just bought one in 6.5PRC and it is shooting 1/2 MOA out of the box.

Did you clean it and make sure there is NO residual lubricant in the barrel? I have had the exact same problem with one of my Bergaras and after a thorough cleaning, it was shooting lights out. Good luck. Hope you get it sorted out. I think it is a great gun.

Thanks for the input!

Glad to hear your copy is performing as advertised. Yes, I did dry the barrel out after putting lubricated patches through it. My rifle went back to Springfield—one of the repair techs I spoke to said there's no reason it should be performing as poorly as it is with the ammo I shot through it. I'll post an update with whatever repairs they end up doing when I get the rifle back.

 

[shootertom]

Just a quick follow up on my warranty work that Springfield did. As a quick reminder, the barrel was touching the stock along the left edge.

Here's the experience:

• Called Springfield and explained the issue - they immediately issued and RMA and sent me a pre-paid shipping label
• About a week after shipping I received and email saying they received it and I should expect it back in 2-4 weeks.
• 5 weeks went by and I hadn't heard anything so I called. They already had the rifle done and I had missed their email. It had taken them about 2 weeks.
• What they did: they replaced the stock, bottom metal and action screws.
• They then quickly shipped it to me after my call, it took two days to get to me from the time of the conversation.
• HOW IS IT NOW? The new stock aligned perfectly with the barrel and they properly torqued everything.

All in all, I wish I didn't have to send a $2300 rifle back for warranty repairs right after purchasing. With that being said, the customer service is among the best I've ever experienced. In fact, I would argue its easer than dealing with a custom shop who might not have access to replacement parts in a timely manner. (Almost all my rifles are customs, so I do appreciate the work they provide.)

This coming week ill work on trying a few different loads, 130 Eld-m, 143 Eld-X and 130 Sierra game changers. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

 

[boosted]

Just a quick follow up on my warranty work that Springfield did. As a quick reminder, the barrel was touching the stock along the left edge.

Here's the experience:

• Called Springfield and explained the issue - they immediately issued and RMA and sent me a pre-paid shipping label
• About a week after shipping I received and email saying they received it and I should expect it back in 2-4 weeks.
• 5 weeks went by and I hadn't heard anything so I called. They already had the rifle done and I had missed their email. It had taken them about 2 weeks.
• What they did: they replaced the stock, bottom metal and action screws.
• They then quickly shipped it to me after my call, it took two days to get to me from the time of the conversation.
• HOW IS IT NOW? The new stock aligned perfectly with the barrel and they properly torqued everything.

All in all, I wish I didn't have to send a $2300 rifle back for warranty repairs right after purchasing. With that being said, the customer service is among the best I've ever experienced. In fact, I would argue its easer than dealing with a custom shop who might not have access to replacement parts in a timely manner. (Almost all my rifles are customs, so I do appreciate the work they provide.)

This coming week ill work on trying a few different loads, 130 Eld-m, 143 Eld-X and 130 Sierra game changers. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Glad to hear the experience with their customer service was so positive! Mine has been very similar so far although I was quoted 2-4 weeks and will probably be closer to the 5-6 week mark by the time I get it back. Let us know how the rifle shoots once you test it out for yourself!

 

[shootertom]

Glad to hear the experience with their customer service was so positive! Mine has been very similar so far although I was quoted 2-4 weeks and will probably be closer to the 5-6 week mark by the time I get it back. Let us know how the rifle shoots once you test it out for yourself!

I sure will, I should be able to make it out this week. I'll keep you posted.

 

[boosted]

Quick update: The rifle has been at Springfield for 5.5 weeks right now. They estimated 2-4 weeks, but so long as it's fixed properly I don't really care if it's an extra week or two over the estimate.

They tested the rifle, and sure enough, it performed the same way it had when I was behind it. That is, not meeting their 3/4 MOA guarantee. They replaced the barrel on it, retested, and it met their standards. The rifle is shipping to me this week.

Glad I didn't follow some other members' advice on trying every ammo out there before blaming the rifle!

 

[ShtrRdy]

Thanks for the update. I hope it shoots really well for you when you get it back.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

I’ve been shooting a SA Waypoint in 6 CM the past couple weekends and I think it’s been good. 30 round aggregate ES at 100 yards was .84” with Hornady Match and Precision Hunter. 1/2 of the 5 shot groups hit their accuracy guarantee. This gun is a loaner but I wouldn’t mind it in my collection.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I’ve been shooting a SA Waypoint in 6 CM the past couple weekends and I think it’s been good. 30 round aggregate ES at 100 yards was .84” with Hornady Match and Precision Hunter. 1/2 of the 5 shot groups hit their accuracy guarantee. This gun is a loaner but I wouldn’t mind it in my collection.

Is yours the CF barrel version or SS?

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Carbon barrel

 

[shootertom]

I had finally gotten the chance to shoot mine and the results are lack luster. I’ve tried hornady 130 elem, 143 eld x, 140 match and Sierra 130 game changers. I can’t seem to get below 1 moa. This is also using h4350 and varget in combination with hornady and lapua brass. I’m about 80ish rounds in and it just hasn’t found a happy place. I already did one warranty for the stock and I’m thinking now I’ll have to do another for the barrel or sell the rifle and cut my losses. So if anyone has experience with a barrel replacement, please share your experience.

 

[Milf Dots]

I had finally gotten the chance to shoot mine and the results are lack luster. I’ve tried hornady 130 elem, 143 eld x, 140 match and Sierra 130 game changers. I can’t seem to get below 1 moa. This is also using h4350 and varget in combination with hornady and lapua brass. I’m about 80ish rounds in and it just hasn’t found a happy place. I already did one warranty for the stock and I’m thinking now I’ll have to do another for the barrel or sell the rifle and cut my losses. So if anyone has experience with a barrel replacement, please share your experience.

Don't let SA off the hook- hold them accountable. After they fix it is the time to dump it.