As the title says, which one would you purchase?? Gun will be used mostly at range. I have lots of other rifles and thought a semi 7.62 might be fun! The price difference will effect optics on said rifle. So tell which one you would prefer and why?
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I looked at both went with LMT. Both get good reviews. Price on LMT was main factor as all else seemed equal. I have come to like the barrel remove feature of the LMT - its helpful for maintenance. KAC may have better finish - Id like to have the integrated flush cups but that wasnt worth the money.
Your looking at two great products and your idea to use savings to be applied to your optic will give you the best return on investment. If you are buying a CounterSniper after purchasing KAC but will get a Premier for the LMT - go LMT.
Your decision may be based on what you can get your hands on as I think both are looking at year plus wait time.
Your looking at two great products and your idea to use savings to be applied to your optic will give you the best return on investment. If you are buying a CounterSniper after purchasing KAC but will get a Premier for the LMT - go LMT.
Your decision may be based on what you can get your hands on as I think both are looking at year plus wait time.
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I went LMT mostly due to cost. I don't buy people's complaints about the SR25 being bad. I mean, the level that Chris Kyle was talking about them not working as well (haven't hit that part of the book yet but that is the scuttle butt), I will never hit that extreme in my shooting life. Both are really nice, however, barrel removal is HUGE. It is so nice for cleaning, and I have not noticed a zero shift.
I went with the SR-25. WHY?? Because I found one that was available. I was not sure if my tOBR was going to make it to me before bad laws started happening (I'm in Connecticut).
Mike
Mike
LMT is built like a tank and you can swap the barrels. I'd save a little dough by going with the MWS, and throw some nice glass on there. You won't notice much difference if any in accuracy. I couldn't at least. But then again, you may be a better marksman than I am.
The question came off as if he had accessibility to both, at least to me. That being said, availability would obviously play a roll.
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Which ever one you can find. Personally, I'd pick up the LMT of the two due to price.
Personally, I thought long and hard about picking up an LMT while waiting on an OBR. You may consider doing the same if you're not happy with the LMT---perhaps order an OBR or GAP-10.
Personally, I thought long and hard about picking up an LMT while waiting on an OBR. You may consider doing the same if you're not happy with the LMT---perhaps order an OBR or GAP-10.
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LMT, I'm super stoked with mine. I've shot a SR-25 and while its a little bit lighter (about 9oz lighter I believe) I found the LMT to be slightly more accurate. I had trouble getting sub moa with the SR-25 ECC I shot, while the LMT went sub moa (10 shots) without issue.
<img src="http://buckjay.com/drop/lmt-mws-1.jpg" />
<img src="http://buckjay.com/drop/lmt-mws-2.jpg" />
<img src="http://buckjay.com/drop/lmt-mws-1.jpg" />
<img src="http://buckjay.com/drop/lmt-mws-2.jpg" />
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For sure !
Just a little more info, as I've played with both and own the lmt.
The sr25 is lighter, and has much softer recoil.
The lmt has lots of gas and no way to dial it down, not as good for suppressed use. The extra gas seems to add reliability unsuppressed though, I've literally never had a failure in my mws in 10,000 rounds !
The lmt with the cl barrel is on par with the sr for accuracy.
The lmt is more accurate with the ss barrel than the sr25.
The lmt barrel setup is great, easy cleaning, easy replacement of worn barrels, and the option to change calibers when you please. I actually have two barrels and two optics on qd mounts, a 20" ss + 6-24 scope for long range and a 16" cl + an eotech for three gun fun. Usually the zero comes back within 1 moa when changing both the barrel and optic as a pair.
G
Guest
Guest
I would buy whichever one you can find. I was waiting for my Christmas bonus in December so I could buy a SIG 716 then Sandy happened week before my bonus came. I couldnt find a 716, LWRC, or LMT MWS anywhere.
Ended up buying a POF USA P308 NP3 16.5" last week which arrives at my FFL Monday. Thank god I bought 10 Pmags for it in December at $25 a piece.
Ended up buying a POF USA P308 NP3 16.5" last week which arrives at my FFL Monday. Thank god I bought 10 Pmags for it in December at $25 a piece.
I have no experience shooting the KAC but it is crazy light. If you are only going to have one, this is prolly the way to go. I went with the LMT and am plenty satisfied though. I later bought a POF P-308 and both rifles cost the same as one KAC. The P-308 is pretty accurate and much lighter than it looks.
I have owned a KAC and it was a great rifle. Reliable, accurate, and turned lots of heads at the range. I will have another, someday. I have 2 of the SR-15's, and they are a big step up compared to other AR's. My brother had a boner for the LMT, but never pulled the trigger. They are a nice rifle for the money. Just hope you can find one. Best of luck, J
LMT, take the 1500-2000$ difference and spend it on a nice scope, shoot the shit out of it.
I've got a SS 16" barrel MWS. Sub MOA after I got my 2.5-10 NF sighted in. Haven't taken her too far yet (348y) but it was 3/4 MOA at that distance with the last 4 shots of the day. Get the LMT, you won't be sorry.
For the difference in price I didn't feel the SR 25 had enough of a performance- edge to justify the increase in cost. Spent the difference in price on a Nightforce 5.5-22X50 with ZS and HST.
V
vipers28
Guest
I fought this battle long and hard, finally I bought the KAC-well at least it's on order. I like the LMT for the ability to change barrels quickly, cal. etc but it wasn't enough to sway me. The cost around here went from $2600 to $3100 for the LMT. KAC is now offering 4 versions of the SR25 all at different price points. Kranzy did a great review of his and an OBR if you want to look it up. You can buy an KAC EC direct from Knights or Lawman's or the group buy on here from CM Decker, $3500 to $3900 seems to be the going rate and Gun Gallery had them for I think $3750. The type of shooting you are describing would lead me to recommend the EC versus the other models. I don't feel you will go wrong with an LMT, just my 2 cents. And to throw something else at you, have you considered the LWRC REPR? If not, give it a hard look, my buddies is off the shelf, works great. I have seen a couple of sweet shooting JP's as well lately.
I used to have a MWS with the 16" CL barrel and 18" SS 308 barrel. I bought mine to run more as a carbine or battle rifle. The MWS was just too heavy for that type of use to be practical for me. That barrel extension has a lot of weight to it! I even had the stock barrel cut/hider pinned to 16" and dimpled it, still not what I was looking for. Now keep in mind the British MoD use the MWS as a DM application and seems to be well liked. So there is definitely something to be said about that.
I ended up buying an ECC as it was a couple pounds lighter and had some features I liked that the MWS doesnt have (sand cut bolt carrier, LOVE the KAC offset sights, more QD sling sockets, longer ejection port, fact that the ECC is softer shooting IMO, better trigger IMO, URX 3.1 handguard, better flash hider ect)
As said earlier, the ECC and MWS with stock barrel seemed about the same to me accuracy wise, but the MWS with SS barrel is noticeably better. If you are just going to use it to shoot paper for groups at the range with quick follow up shots, go with the MWS. But I wanted something designed a little better for the battle rifle role. I would get rid of my truck before I sold my ECC. Absolutely love it.
I ended up buying an ECC as it was a couple pounds lighter and had some features I liked that the MWS doesnt have (sand cut bolt carrier, LOVE the KAC offset sights, more QD sling sockets, longer ejection port, fact that the ECC is softer shooting IMO, better trigger IMO, URX 3.1 handguard, better flash hider ect)
As said earlier, the ECC and MWS with stock barrel seemed about the same to me accuracy wise, but the MWS with SS barrel is noticeably better. If you are just going to use it to shoot paper for groups at the range with quick follow up shots, go with the MWS. But I wanted something designed a little better for the battle rifle role. I would get rid of my truck before I sold my ECC. Absolutely love it.
Choosing between the mws and the ecc is a tough decision. However, for a rifle to be used mostly at the range where Im sure accuracy is a major concern I would have no problem suggesting the mws. I have had mine since aug of '10 and have used the 16" cl and ss barrels, 20" .308 ss and 6.5cm ss barrels. Each of these barrels have given me great accuracy and easily allow me to run this rifle in a precision role.
I must preface the following pics iwth the statement that I am not a fan of shooting groups, these are mainly just shot at the beginning of a range trip to be sure everything checks out before getting started. Here are some groups out of my rifle:
16" SS barrel:
100yds- 175smk load
675yds- From today's range trip. 5 rds 175smk
20" 6.5cm barrel
100yds-140 amax 7rds. Part of a group to check suppressor shift.
500yds- 5rds 140 amax
If you are looking for precision the mws is a great choice. Having said all that though, I do have an ecc on order that I plan to run as a battle rifle and back up precision rifle so hopefully in a few months I can do a side by side comparison. The only negative about the lmt is the weight, but even that can be over come.
I must preface the following pics iwth the statement that I am not a fan of shooting groups, these are mainly just shot at the beginning of a range trip to be sure everything checks out before getting started. Here are some groups out of my rifle:
16" SS barrel:
100yds- 175smk load
675yds- From today's range trip. 5 rds 175smk
20" 6.5cm barrel
100yds-140 amax 7rds. Part of a group to check suppressor shift.
500yds- 5rds 140 amax
If you are looking for precision the mws is a great choice. Having said all that though, I do have an ecc on order that I plan to run as a battle rifle and back up precision rifle so hopefully in a few months I can do a side by side comparison. The only negative about the lmt is the weight, but even that can be over come.
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Thanks for all the great advice! I think I have more or less decided on the lmt. The lmt with the 260 barrel I believe will be a lot of fun!!
Next question , I have found full railed model and am curious what everyone's feelings are about the slick sided model? I would prefer the slick sided model I think. A little lighter , better hand hold, and I will never run any thing on the side rails. The bad part is my local dealer has one but it is not the slick sided model. So I am wondering about that?
Next question , I have found full railed model and am curious what everyone's feelings are about the slick sided model? I would prefer the slick sided model I think. A little lighter , better hand hold, and I will never run any thing on the side rails. The bad part is my local dealer has one but it is not the slick sided model. So I am wondering about that?
To be honest, I would buy that rifle no question. I am not one who thinks panic buying is necessary, but with lmt quoting a wait time well over a year it's going to be a long time before you get exactly what you want from lmt. If anything you buy the railed version now and down the road you might trade uppers or rifles with some one for the slick version.
I own a LMT Mws 20"SS 1/11.25 twist and absolutely love it. She's heavy, but I don't go running around the brush with it anyway. She's very accurate and reliable.
Although I am tossing around the idea of getting into a bolt gun and can't have both.(Wife says)...lol What to do?
Although I am tossing around the idea of getting into a bolt gun and can't have both.(Wife says)...lol What to do?
I own a LMT Mws 20"SS 1/11.25 twist and absolutely love it. She's heavy, but I don't go running around the brush with it anyway. She's very accurate and reliable.
Although I am tossing around the idea of getting into a bolt gun and can't have both.(Wife says)...lol What to do?
That is easy
I will trade you a bolt gun for your lmt
Or find a new wife! But that choice would depend on how you like your wife!
If you wanted to stay in 308 I have a very nice rem 700 AAC-sd in a very very nice APO mod 0 chassis
I have a Gen 1 LMT MWS, so I am going to endorse them 
You can not go wrong either way, but if price is going to affect your optic choices go with the LMT and the better optic. Honestly I never saw the nearly 2000 dollar difference in quality.
Good luck buying new (if your going out looking) my FFL is a LMT dealer and was just told in the last couple of weeks 42-48 months for orders placed then, and that up from 36 months back in early Jan.
You can not go wrong either way, but if price is going to affect your optic choices go with the LMT and the better optic. Honestly I never saw the nearly 2000 dollar difference in quality.Good luck buying new (if your going out looking) my FFL is a LMT dealer and was just told in the last couple of weeks 42-48 months for orders placed then, and that up from 36 months back in early Jan.
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The lowers are pretty much identical except for the ambi controls and a couple little things, the upper is where there are differences. I had the 16" CL, after shooting it, realized that I would probably not buy the 20" SS, an extra 100 FPS +/- wasn't a big deal to me, I'm just running a 1.5-6X on it. What was a big deal was the BUIS, ambi controls, suppressor ready, noticeably lighter than the MWS. Yes, I agree that you get to a point of diminishing returns re cost. But, what I sold the LMT for... made the diff in price moot. I posted these before, the more silver parts are KAC.
A nice touch is the swivel attachment point.
A nice touch is the swivel attachment point.
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now that is one bad ass set up!
I own a LMT Mws 20"SS 1/11.25 twist and absolutely love it. She's heavy, but I don't go running around the brush with it anyway. She's very accurate and reliable.
Although I am tossing around the idea of getting into a bolt gun and can't have both.(Wife says)...lol What to do?
Ok so I picked up a 16" cl barrel model yesterday 3100 I guess was ok since no one else had them around me.
Now on to the important stuff!! Where is all the good information on setting them up? What about info on barrel changes and such??
Also guys that are reloading for it, any good loads? And what are you loading off the lands and length for the magazine?
Last but not least! What other barrels are AvailAble?? I read about a 260 and just happen to have a few boxes of new Laura brass waiting to go! What about the 22-250? That would be real fun in the lmt!
Now on to the important stuff!! Where is all the good information on setting them up? What about info on barrel changes and such??
Also guys that are reloading for it, any good loads? And what are you loading off the lands and length for the magazine?
Last but not least! What other barrels are AvailAble?? I read about a 260 and just happen to have a few boxes of new Laura brass waiting to go! What about the 22-250? That would be real fun in the lmt!
They make an 16" Stainless, 18" Stainless, 20" Stainless and a 20" Stainless in .338 Federal
I have a 16" SS, a 20" SS and the .20" SS .338 Fed.
Check their web sight, sometimes they finish a run and place a few extras up there.
And a 13.5" in CL and SS
I have a 16" SS, a 20" SS and the .20" SS .338 Fed.
Check their web sight, sometimes they finish a run and place a few extras up there.
And a 13.5" in CL and SS
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Removing the barrel is easy.
Be careful snugging the bolts backup. Ive read more than a few posts where guys snapped the barrel bolts using the LMT wrench.
I use my Snap On tourqe wrench as I have more faith in it. I'm hypothesizing that the supplied wrench is fine but there are two issues when its used
1. LMT presets the wrench and tapes it at the 140 inch pound setting. This is a tourqe wrench no-no as it should be stored at 0.
2. Guys dont "excercise" the wrench before use. The wrench should be used to distribute lubrication before trying to tourqe a fastener. Issue 1 compounds the chance of error from failing to perform issue 2.
If you can order a couple spare bolts to have on hand you shouldnt need them but they are a spare I recommend. Trident1982 has done some great tests regarding the barrel removal/tourque settings/and impact on zero.
Be careful snugging the bolts backup. Ive read more than a few posts where guys snapped the barrel bolts using the LMT wrench.
I use my Snap On tourqe wrench as I have more faith in it. I'm hypothesizing that the supplied wrench is fine but there are two issues when its used
1. LMT presets the wrench and tapes it at the 140 inch pound setting. This is a tourqe wrench no-no as it should be stored at 0.
2. Guys dont "excercise" the wrench before use. The wrench should be used to distribute lubrication before trying to tourqe a fastener. Issue 1 compounds the chance of error from failing to perform issue 2.
If you can order a couple spare bolts to have on hand you shouldnt need them but they are a spare I recommend. Trident1982 has done some great tests regarding the barrel removal/tourque settings/and impact on zero.
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just another side note above and beyond using a nice wrench.... MAKE SURE the bolts and inside of the nuts are BONE DRY!! I use break cleaner on my bolts and q-tip w/cleaner inside of the nut to make sure they are 100% bone dry... absolutely NO oil, no nothing. if you don't do this, then you can have the best wrench in the world and the bolts will snap. Trust me on this.
If you want an LMT I would go with whatever you can find as their lead time is well over a year at this point. Two weeks ago I was in a similar dilemma; I really wanted an LMT MWS with a stainless steel barrel but couldn't find one anywhere. However, there was a chrome lined MWS listed on the Kentucky Gun Co website so I decided to order it figuring it's better to get a CL than to wait for a SS given that if a ban is implemented I'd be SOL all together. Well apparently I was beaten by somebody else because as soon I had entered all my info and clicked submit I was greeted with a pop up stating that my order could not be processed, please contact us. Needless to say I was frustrated but continued to search for the next few days with no luck. One night right before bed, on a whim, I decided to check Kentucky Gun Co once again and to my surprise they had another CL it stock. I typed quicker than I had ever before and luckily enough my order went through. As luck would have it, I received an email from Rainier Arms a day or two later notifying me that a SS MWS was avail. Well... that rifle lasted all of 2 minutes so I didn't feel bad at all about my purchase. If you can find one that is available do yourself a favor and pick it up.
Thank you
I did end up picking up one with 16" cl barrel and full rail hand guard. If any one has the smooth side and would be interested in trading the upper. I guess you can pull the barrel and bolt and change just the upper and rail?
There are some things I would like to find for the lmt. Not knowing much about gas guns can you all make some suggestions?
Magazines - will the sr-25 mags work in the lmt? I would like to also find a 10 round magazine for hunting.
I would also like to find a nice set of 45 degree offset hard sights. I found some KAC but no one has the is stock! And other makers of nice ones?
And can some one also suggest a good sling?
I did end up picking up one with 16" cl barrel and full rail hand guard. If any one has the smooth side and would be interested in trading the upper. I guess you can pull the barrel and bolt and change just the upper and rail?
There are some things I would like to find for the lmt. Not knowing much about gas guns can you all make some suggestions?
Magazines - will the sr-25 mags work in the lmt? I would like to also find a 10 round magazine for hunting.
I would also like to find a nice set of 45 degree offset hard sights. I found some KAC but no one has the is stock! And other makers of nice ones?
And can some one also suggest a good sling?
Congrats on your purchase! I have this sling and really like it. Adjustments are a breeze. http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-padded-sling
your best bet on getting a LMT is to sign up for email notifications on kentucky gun company..... same place I got my LMT from and would purchase from again. top notch service.
I choose the LMT. Got a 18" SS barrel and put a NF scope on it. Can't go wrong with LMT rifles. First class rifle you will be very happy.
M1A, I recently installed my 18 inch SS barrel and stepped down to 168 grainers. Now I'm looking for a load to shoot at 1000 yards with my SS barrel and I was under the impression that the SS barrel with the 1/11.25" Twist might have a hard time stabilizing the 175. From your pictures it looks like the SS barrel has no problem of stabilizing 175's. Just to be clear your SS barrel is a 1/11.25" twist correct? I haven't tried the 168gr at 1000 yards yet but from what I hear from Trident and many other people is that they don't even come close to matching the 175 @1k.
Also, Another plug here for Kentucky gun company. I bought my 16 inch CL for 2300 a while ago. Excellent service!!!
Also, Another plug here for Kentucky gun company. I bought my 16 inch CL for 2300 a while ago. Excellent service!!!
The 168 amax are what I run out of my ss 18" and 20".
They're more accurate than the 175 smk out past 1000 for me.
Running 44.1 grains of varget, 168 amax at 2.81 coal, lapua brass, br2 primer. 2650 fps.
Unlike the 168 smk, the amax will go transonic no problem.
They're more accurate than the 175 smk out past 1000 for me.
Running 44.1 grains of varget, 168 amax at 2.81 coal, lapua brass, br2 primer. 2650 fps.
Unlike the 168 smk, the amax will go transonic no problem.
Thank you for the reply. I'm very glad to hear that the Amax is doing so well. I will give those a try next time I reload. I just finished loading a bunch of 168 grain Nosler custom competition BTHP. They're almost identical to the matchKing. I have no idea how they shoot because this is the first time i used them. These were the only bullets I could find online and they were considerably cheaper than SMK's.
My barrel is indeed a 1/11.25" ss barrel. It has no problem stabilizing the 175 gr from what I can tell. I shoot the 175 only any more and have no problem stretching things out with the 175 Smk.
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