SR25 vs GAP 10 for long range precision?

[Fenix Mike]

Sold my LWRC REPR and likely going to let one of my Scar 17s go, and was considering one of these two (nothing else at the time, just really specifically looking at these two in 20 inch). Going by specs, they look quite similar other than the GAP having a fancy Seekins frame, and I really can't find any good comparisons between the two. Both seem to be 1/2-1 MOA guns, and good resale in case I don't like it. Im not a huge fan of the current Knights rail, but after working hard to get the REPR dialed and shooting well, I want something that shoots a bit better from the factory so I can really dial the hand loads and push it out.

By long range, I will be shooting 1100 yards with whichever one I get, I already have 178 gr bullets, powder and starting loads to see what they like, just need to figure out which rifle I want to invest in. I seem to change guns frequently, so I don't want to build one, knowing resale value doesn't exist, where as these, I will be able to sell when I'm done.

 

[FCS]

I'd go with a GAP for precision, longer range use on a regular basis. I've not owned an SR25 so I can not comment with first hand experience. I do have GAP-10 and it has not disappointed me.

 

[longshot2000]

I have heard many good things about the GAP-10. The Sr-25 is a fine rifle. For me, it shoots like a battle weapon, or a little better, but it is not precision tuned. My experience is just under 1 MOA, which gets the job done on the battlefield. I like the LMT MWS308 a little bit more, and find it is a tad more accurate than the KAC. I think LaRue OBR is also a great rifle.

 

[USMC 308]

Also unimpressed with issued SR25. I'd think GAP has a better likelihood of producing a better precision gas gun.

 

[FLIGHT762]

I have a first year production (1993) SR 25 and a 3 year old 22" GAP 10. The SR 25 is a 1 MOA rifle, can't get much better out of it. The GAP 10, however will shoot under 1 MOA consistently. GAP 10 is a much more accurate rifle. I don't know how well the current production SR 25's shoot, but this has been my experience.

 

[bigjake83]

I would strongly encourage you to look into a JP LRP-07 , and if your really going to reach out to 1100 yrds u'll want the 6.5CM, and since KAC doesn't make a 6.5 CM that leave you with GAP and JP.

​​​​​​ The Accuracy between the two will be identical with JP being more consistently accurate due to the fine-tuned equipment it comes with..

If you choose a GAP I would be patient and find one of the POF Style GAP-10's. When Gap changed over to the Seekins platform they lost a couple of critical aspects that are in my opinion invaluable such as a true monolithic top rail and the heatsink barrel nut..

 

[elfster1234]

Sold my LWRC REPR and likely going to let one of my Scar 17s go, and was considering one of these two (nothing else at the time, just really specifically looking at these two in 20 inch). Going by specs, they look quite similar other than the GAP having a fancy Seekins frame, and I really can't find any good comparisons between the two. Both seem to be 1/2-1 MOA guns, and good resale in case I don't like it. Im not a huge fan of the current Knights rail, but after working hard to get the REPR dialed and shooting well, I want something that shoots a bit better from the factory so I can really dial the hand loads and push it out.

By long range, I will be shooting 1100 yards with whichever one I get, I already have 178 gr bullets, powder and starting loads to see what they like, just need to figure out which rifle I want to invest in. I seem to change guns frequently, so I don't want to build one, knowing resale value doesn't exist, where as these, I will be able to sell when I'm done.

Id either get a JP if you have the money to burn OR have a custom mega with a low mass high pressure BCG group and bartlein barrel 5r 6.5 creedmoor with extra 2" gas with a low profile adjustable gas block

 

[Saf3sh00t3r]

I own a JP LRP-07, GAP10, LMTMWS, and Seekins SP10. That said, I've been behind an SR25, based on my experience with it...was not impressed. If you're looking to choose between the two, the GAP10 will be hard to beat...that is if you can deal with the wait.

You can go another route, get an SP10 from Seekins...contact Jeff Hayes at Riverbed for him to install a Bartlein once your barrel burns out. He worked for George at GAP and you will not see a difference between a GAP10 and that.

Anyway, for what its worth my two cents, get the GAP10. If you decide to go another direction get a JP-LRP07 suppressor ready package that is what I have now as my newest gun. Will be using it on the PRS Gas Gun Series matches. In fact the last top two winners at CORE used the JP-LRP07.

 

[Fenix Mike]

Sounds like the Knights will just be like the LWRC... a 1 MOA gun I had to work my ass off to get some decent groups in the .75 range once in a while, where as the GAP sounds more like a precision rifle.

As far as shooting 1100 yards, the LWRC REPR 20 inch would do it with my hand loads until I got bored and went home, never flinched or got too warm, it was just not as consistent as I wanted it to be for groups since it is a battle rifle. While id like to go to 6.5, I'm just not sure I want to tackle new brass, powder and bullets, then have to go get dies and such when I probably won't put steel out any further for a long time. It might be easier to get on my furthest target, but I haven't had a problem yet with 308 doing it (obviously 175+ to make it happen).

Ive looked at the JP stuff, and the associated price tag, too rich for my blood. The GAP is priced fine, I just hate the wait, and with summer coming I might just see if someone wants to trade one of my Scar 17s for a GAP 10 , then maybe order something fancy when it cools off.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[JSTARSZ]

While id like to go to 6.5, I'm just not sure I want to tackle new brass, powder and bullets, then have to go get dies and such when I probably won't put steel out any further for a long time. It might be easier to get on my furthest target, but I haven't had a problem yet with 308 doing it (obviously 175+ to make it happen).

I understand that very well as there is an up-cost to change into a different caliber, but I can say as a long time shooter of 308's and a new guy to 6.5mm Creedmoor, it is worth the cost. I shoot at a friends place that has out to 1200 yards with a 900 yard area. At the 900 yard line the 308 is there, but not totally consistent, depending on the wind; however, the 6.5mm Creedmoor bucks the wind well and the 900 yard line is almost boring. Step back to 1200 and the 308 is almost totally dead, and lucky to get hits, while the 6.5mm Creedmoor is still rocking the steel with authority.

Get a 6.5mm Creedmoor and don't look back.

 

[Fenix Mike]

I understand that very well as there is an up-cost to change into a different caliber, but I can say as a long time shooter of 308's and a new guy to 6.5mm Creedmoor, it is worth the cost. I shoot at a friends place that has out to 1200 yards with a 900 yard area. At the 900 yard line the 308 is there, but not totally consistent, depending on the wind; however, the 6.5mm Creedmoor bucks the wind well and the 900 yard line is almost boring. Step back to 1200 and the 308 is almost totally dead, and lucky to get hits, while the 6.5mm Creedmoor is still rocking the steel with authority.

Get a 6.5mm Creedmoor and don't look back.

Hah that has pretty much been the consensus... with the SR25 out of the picture, its a lot more likely I will have my eyes peeled for a heavy barrel GAP 10 in 6.5 or similar. I REALLY wanted a Knights, but it will likely just end up like the REPR where once the awesome factor wears off, I get bored with it.

To everyone again, is it the general consensus that the Gen 1 GAP rifles are any better or worse than Gen 2 ? Seen above was a comment that the Gen 1 receiver/rail setups were better, however that's the first ive been told to seek out a Gen 1 as opposed to avoid them unless its basically free compared with the newer Gen 2 stuff.

 

[chevytruck_83]

Precision shooting out to1100 yards with a 308 is a stretch even with a bolt action. Realistically 750 yards is the limit for high probability hits. If there's no wind you can stretch that out a bit further. If you want to shoot 1100 yards with any kind of precision you will need to go to something like the jp lrp-07 in 6.5 creedmoor and hand load. I personally decided that the dpms g2 sass is the best buy for the money for me. I want to shoot factory ammo and will be shooting at steel 750 and in. Only reason I didn't go with the jp precision is because semi autos are hard on brass. I'll save the reloading for bolt actions which I can get 20 or so reloads out of a case.

 

[Fenix Mike]

Precision shooting out to1100 yards with a 308 is a stretch even with a bolt action. Realistically 750 yards is the limit for high probability hits. If there's no wind you can stretch that out a bit further. If you want to shoot 1100 yards with any kind of precision you will need to go to something like the jp lrp-07 in 6.5 creedmoor and hand load. I personally decided that the dpms g2 sass is the best buy for the money for me. I want to shoot factory ammo and will be shooting at steel 750 and in. Only reason I didn't go with the jp precision is because semi autos are hard on brass. I'll save the reloading for bolt actions which I can get 20 or so reloads out of a case.

I disagree 100%. As someone who has been shooting to 1100 yards (1000 meters or 1094 yards to be exact) with multiple different 308 platforms for 6 years now, it isn't difficult at all, even with wind. My 13 inch Scar will hit 20 for 20 with every mag at 800 meters (875 yards) and 10/20 at 1000 meters, and with 16 inch, if its a 1 MOA gun or better, has no issue getting on at 1100 yards. The main limitation is factory lighter bullets, but even with FGMM 175s, most rifles have no issue at that range. My 20 inch REPR was a laser with 178 Amax hand loads, My HK MR762 would do 20/20 at 875 yards and 17/20 at 1100 (granted it was the load for my REPR that shot only average out of the HK, but it had a NF 2.5-10 power scope and did well for its setup), and if you want to get into bolt guns, I had a Remington 700P 308 26 inch and a Savage FCPR 308 24 inch that would go 10/10 until you ran out of ammo.

Would I drag a 16 inch 308 semi auto out to a long range competition with unknown variables, wind and little testing of my setup for 1100 yards? Probably not, but my spot never changes, we have nice thin air here and wind doesn't get much over 10-15 mph gusts usually. Some of the higher wind days I had to hold 3 mils for wind and still managed to get the majority on target, but that comes down to a proper setup rifle, quality scope, good ammo and of course, experience. 750 yards is boring for a 16 inch 223 gun with 55 gr pills, id hope youre pushing further with a 308, but im going for hits on torso steel, I don't care where on the steel they hit.

 

[chevytruck_83]

I disagree 100%. As someone who has been shooting to 1100 yards (1000 meters or 1094 yards to be exact) with multiple different 308 platforms for 6 years now, it isn't difficult at all, even with wind. My 13 inch Scar will hit 20 for 20 with every mag at 800 meters (875 yards) and 10/20 at 1000 meters, and with 16 inch, if its a 1 MOA gun or better, has no issue getting on at 1100 yards. The main limitation is factory lighter bullets, but even with FGMM 175s, most rifles have no issue at that range. My 20 inch REPR was a laser with 178 Amax hand loads, My HK MR762 would do 20/20 at 875 yards and 17/20 at 1100 (granted it was the load for my REPR that shot only average out of the HK, but it had a NF 2.5-10 power scope and did well for its setup), and if you want to get into bolt guns, I had a Remington 700P 308 26 inch and a Savage FCPR 308 24 inch that would go 10/10 until you ran out of ammo.

Would I drag a 16 inch 308 semi auto out to a long range competition with unknown variables, wind and little testing of my setup for 1100 yards? Probably not, but my spot never changes, we have nice thin air here and wind doesn't get much over 10-15 mph gusts usually. Some of the higher wind days I had to hold 3 mils for wind and still managed to get the majority on target, but that comes down to a proper setup rifle, quality scope, good ammo and of course, experience. 750 yards is boring for a 16 inch 223 gun with 55 gr pills, id hope youre pushing further with a 308, but im going for hits on torso steel, I don't care where on the steel they hit.

Just so we can all understand how good a shooter you are why don't you clarify what size targets you are hitting 100% of the time at 875 with a 13" barrel and 50% of the time at 1000. A 13" barell in 308 is more of a flame thrower then a long range gun.

 

[Bradu]

He said the air is thin so I'm guessing he's at higher elevation which would help out the ballistics a fair amount. It sounds like he knows what he wants for the caliber and I'm tired of reading everyone thinking the creedmoor is the greatest thing in the world.

 

[Fenix Mike]

Just so we can all understand how good a shooter you are why don't you clarify what size targets you are hitting 100% of the time at 875 with a 13" barrel and 50% of the time at 1000. A 13" barell in 308 is more of a flame thrower then a long range gun.

Its not even about being a good shooter. Believe it or not if you make your rounds correctly with a low SD, dial in the velocity properly into a calculator, and have a scope worth a damn, its not very difficult to make hits out to any distance you want. 168s give me a real hard time because they go transonic early, but 175s and 178s seem to float in pretty well. My hand loaded 178s stay supersonic to 1100 in a 20 inch barrel so they are very repeatable as long as you have your holds and elevation correct, with the scar it was more of a challenge because they are falling out of the sky, but the 178s are very stable, where as my 155 SMK loads just danced around it. Ive trained a lot of locals at my spot and had them on target at 700m within a couple hours of basic instruction, holdovers, etc. Hell, ive talked to local guys that make 1400 yard hits with 308 stuff on their bolt guns out at Cowtown... ive never tried shooting that far but apparently they have no issue doing so. Steel is 16x20 inch plates at the 700m, 800m and 1000m.
Welcome to make a trip out here and see for yourself... you wouldn't be the first one that said a 13 inch Scar cant do that and had to buy me a fancy lunch. Two people on this board have also been out there, and made hits with it as well.

Steel plates with a fresh coat of paint.
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i.imgur.com\/gHBuV72.jpg"}[/IMG2]

 

[Fenix Mike]

He said the air is thin so I'm guessing he's at higher elevation which would help out the ballistics a fair amount. It sounds like he knows what he wants for the caliber and I'm tired of reading everyone thinking the creedmoor is the greatest thing in the world.

Lower elevation, just thin air and heat... DA is usually 5500+ even though the actual altitude at that spot is about 2,000 feet or so. In the summer its even higher, but I really don't shoot much between april and October. I agree on the 6.5... im getting closer to trying it but id end up taking steel out to 1200-1300m for it. I don't see much of a challenge in using a 1400 yard round at 1100 yards any more than shooting 308 to 700 yards for the type of shooting I do. If I was actually shooting groups it would be another thing, but I just want torso hits...

 

[shane45]

I have an earlier OBR with XTRAN and LW barrel and I have an SR25 EMC. My better 5 shot groups at 100 seem to hover around .5 for the OBR and .6 for the EMC. Both have been utterly reliable with good ammo. EMC doesn't like weak ammo.

 

[Fenix Mike]

I have an earlier OBR with XTRAN and LW barrel and I have an SR25 EMC. My better 5 shot groups at 100 seem to hover around .5 for the OBR and .6 for the EMC. Both have been utterly reliable with good ammo. EMC doesn't like weak ammo.

My buddy has an OBR and likes it a lot, they just seem difficult to find in 20 inch, although I haven't seen many SR25s in 20 either unless they are $5500+. If I found a deal on one, I could see myself with one of those instead of a GAP, just not many for sale out there and I have a hard time waiting for guns when I order them.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Lower elevation, just thin air and heat... DA is usually 5500+ even though the actual altitude at that spot is about 2,000 feet or so. In the summer its even higher, but I really don't shoot much between april and October. I agree on the 6.5... im getting closer to trying it but id end up taking steel out to 1200-1300m for it. I don't see much of a challenge in using a 1400 yard round at 1100 yards any more than shooting 308 to 700 yards for the type of shooting I do. If I was actually shooting groups it would be another thing, but I just want torso hits...

When I was reading your posts I was saying he is really good with the 308, and you may well be, but with a DA of 5500' it makes more sense now. I live on the east coast where my DA is 500' normally or lower. It makes it dicey after 900 with DA's like mine. Looks like a beautiful area to shoot I am really jealous.

 

[Fenix Mike]

When I was reading your posts I was saying he is really good with the 308, and you may well be, but with a DA of 5500' it makes more sense now. I live on the east coast where my DA is 500' normally or lower. It makes it dicey after 900 with DA's like mine. Looks like a beautiful area to shoot I am really jealous.

Were blessed with a lot of federal land out here, so tons of long stretches to shoot. The valley I shoot in is 1550 meters at the furthest point, but there aren't any paths to get a vehicle or OHV on, so any maintenance to the steel has to be done by walking out.

 

[Fenix Mike]

When I was reading your posts I was saying he is really good with the 308, and you may well be, but with a DA of 5500' it makes more sense now. I live on the east coast where my DA is 500' normally or lower. It makes it dicey after 900 with DA's like mine. Looks like a beautiful area to shoot I am really jealous.

Its a cooler morning, but even then, its still flying at 1050 meters (1148 yards) before it goes transonic.

 

[chevytruck_83]

Its not even about being a good shooter. Believe it or not if you make your rounds correctly with a low SD, dial in the velocity properly into a calculator, and have a scope worth a damn, its not very difficult to make hits out to any distance you want. 168s give me a real hard time because they go transonic early, but 175s and 178s seem to float in pretty well. My hand loaded 178s stay supersonic to 1100 in a 20 inch barrel so they are very repeatable as long as you have your holds and elevation correct, with the scar it was more of a challenge because they are falling out of the sky, but the 178s are very stable, where as my 155 SMK loads just danced around it. Ive trained a lot of locals at my spot and had them on target at 700m within a couple hours of basic instruction, holdovers, etc. Hell, ive talked to local guys that make 1400 yard hits with 308 stuff on their bolt guns out at Cowtown... ive never tried shooting that far but apparently they have no issue doing so. Steel is 16x20 inch plates at the 700m, 800m and 1000m.
Welcome to make a trip out here and see for yourself... you wouldn't be the first one that said a 13 inch Scar cant do that and had to buy me a fancy lunch. Two people on this board have also been out there, and made hits with it as well.

Steel plates with a fresh coat of paint.
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i.imgur.com\/gHBuV72.jpg"}[/IMG2]

I would love to shoot there. Looks like a fantastic place to shoot. 16x20 is a rather large target. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. Bradu I'm not saying 308 is a bad round. I have a sako trg22 in 308 that shoots fantastic. I don't shoot it anymore because a savage of all things I had built into a 6.5 creedmoor shoots way better 750 and beyond. If your talented enough to make hits at 1000 with a 308 then you can make hits at 1400 with a 6.5 creedmoor. You cant argue with balliatics. If a 308 was even close to a 6.5 creedmoor would more guys use it in prs???

 

[Fenix Mike]

I would love to shoot there. Looks like a fantastic place to shoot. 16x20 is a rather large target. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. Bradu I'm not saying 308 is a bad round. I have a sako trg22 in 308 that shoots fantastic. I don't shoot it anymore because a savage of all things I had built into a 6.5 creedmoor shoots way better 750 and beyond. If your talented enough to make hits at 1000 with a 308 then you can make hits at 1400 with a 6.5 creedmoor. You cant argue with balliatics. If a 308 was even close to a 6.5 creedmoor would more guys use it in prs???

No one is saying it isn't a better round... I think just about everyone has proven it is superior in every way. Im pretty well vested in 30 cal and no opposed to 6.5CM, just depends what I can get my hands on. Rest assured, if I did decide to go that route, first thing id be doing is investing in more steel

As far as target size, its just a torso size... maybe not your average Hadji size, but pretty standard man size. I work with all mil guys and each of us fits that bill plus or minus an inch.

 

[Three57]

I have a 2012 20" SR25, I did a lot of testing, and found that it worked the best with Lapua brass and 175 SMKs. It didn't like Hornady 178s or Winchester brass. It probably could have, if I had played with longer seating depths. It is surprisingly easy on the brass, and shoots great. My loads could still be dialed in better, but any bad shots are all my fault and not the rifle. Maybe I got a good one, but this rifle shoots and it isn't going anywhere.
When it is time to rebarrel, I might move to the 6.5CM, but I am also heavily vested in the 308, hard to say if it would be worth the change, but it is a cool cartridge.

 

[Fenix Mike]

I have a 2012 20" SR25, I did a lot of testing, and found that it worked the best with Lapua brass and 175 SMKs. It didn't like Hornady 178s or Winchester brass. It probably could have, if I had played with longer seating depths. It is surprisingly easy on the brass, and shoots great. My loads could still be dialed in better, but any bad shots are all my fault and not the rifle. Maybe I got a good one, but this rifle shoots and it isn't going anywhere.
When it is time to rebarrel, I might move to the 6.5CM, but I am also heavily vested in the 308, hard to say if it would be worth the change, but it is a cool cartridge.

What did it shoot with factory ammo? I had people tell me the same with the REPR. On anything factory it was a 1 MOA gun at best, but with a few months of work and finding a solid hand load, I could get some good 1/2-3/4 groups mixed in with some that had a flyer here and there. I was just hoping to get a gun that starts Sub MOA so I can work it from there... uphill battle with an "average" rifle. Most of the 6.5 guns I see seem to be lasers, I just hate to order something with a 6+ month wait time because who knows what I want or will be into before it ships.

 

[Three57]

I was trying to find a load with Hornady 178s and Winchester brass for a long range course. I was never able to get anything I was happy with, so when the class arrived I used some HSM M118LR factory ammo they had available. I shot about 200 of those during the course with excellent results at all distances. I got home and instantly ditched the 178s and the winchester brass.
I also had really good results with some FGMM 175s that I had done a little bit of testing with.

 

[Three57]

These are 200 yard groups with my reloads. The rifle shoots better than I do.




Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[Fenix Mike]

I was trying to find a load with Hornady 178s and Winchester brass for a long range course. I was never able to get anything I was happy with, so when the class arrived I used some HSM M118LR factory ammo they had available. I shot about 200 of those during the course with excellent results at all distances. I got home and instantly ditched the 178s and the winchester brass.
I also had really good results with some FGMM 175s that I had done a little bit of testing with.

My best groups on the REPR was with 43.2 gr of Varget with Federal brass and 2.800 OAL, Federal primers. The same load was only average in my HK and Scar, still shot MOA, but it was great in the REPR. It would do 3 round groups fantastic, 5 round groups good most of the time, for fun I did a 20 round group and had a few flyers... could have been my fault, maybe not.

 

[Bradu]

I would love to shoot there. Looks like a fantastic place to shoot. 16x20 is a rather large target. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. Bradu I'm not saying 308 is a bad round. I have a sako trg22 in 308 that shoots fantastic. I don't shoot it anymore because a savage of all things I had built into a 6.5 creedmoor shoots way better 750 and beyond. If your talented enough to make hits at 1000 with a 308 then you can make hits at 1400 with a 6.5 creedmoor. You cant argue with balliatics. If a 308 was even close to a 6.5 creedmoor would more guys use it in prs???

My point is everyone gets that the 6.5's are better in every way and it's getting old listening to everyone trying to convince someone that it's the only way to go. But go ahead and keep beating that horse, we don't want it getting back up now do we. Some people including myself like the .308 round and if it does everything we need it to then why switch? $200 for dies, buying 3-400 pieces of brass, 8 pound jug of powder and a 1000 projectiles add up pretty quick when switching calibers.

 

[chevytruck_83]

Still worth it. haha

 

[30calDeath]

Hey Fenix Mike is that a 16" or 20" REPR?

 

[Fenix Mike]

Hey Fenix Mike is that a 16" or 20" REPR?

20 inch REPR, I had a 16 prior to that and couldn't get the velocity I needed to get to my targets and be consistent at 1100.

 

[Fenix Mike]

To finish the thread off, I ended up trading one of my Scar 17s for a LaRue PredatOBR... going to shoot it with the 308 barrel the rest of our "shooting season" (about 3 more weeks, then its over 100 degrees until October) then order the .260 Rem barrel from LaRue for it.

 

[30calDeath]

20 inch REPR, I had a 16 prior to that and couldn't get the velocity I needed to get to my targets and be consistent at 1100.

What was the farthest that you were able to make consistent hits with the 16" version?

 

[Fenix Mike]

What was the farthest that you were able to make consistent hits with the 16" version?

on a flawless day, 1100 yards with my 178 gr hand loads, but any slight gust of wind and that dropped it to 5/20 hits and would mostly pepper around the target. Thats where the 20 inch came in and wind or not, it was incredibly consistent. Unfortunately the next furthest steel is 875 yards, and so far any 308 I've taken out there can knock that one until I run out of ammo, even with decent wind pending its anything but ball ammo. The 168s (Hornady or FGMM) fly VERY well out of that gun, they are just limited to about 900 yards before they go subsonic and become impossible to "mortar" onto the steel. It didn't like 175 FGMM and had a hard time getting below 1 inch consistently, but it would do well with 155 SMKs with 47 gr of Varget that I loaded up without doing any real development.

Most on here love to hate on the REPR, but if you put the effort in, they are GREAT rifles! Soft shooting, incredibly reliable, they run very clean, still by far one of the sexiest AR10 platforms available, and I love the side charger. I have my eye on the new LWRC CSASS, but they dropped the side charger and likely didn't do much to make it any more accurate, so unless I hate the LaRue, I probably won't get another one unless I walk into a trade on a new 20 inch well in my favor, or they make something like a 6.5 CM / 260 Rem and I can get it under 1 inch consistently.

 

[30calDeath]

on a flawless day, 1100 yards with my 178 gr hand loads, but any slight gust of wind and that dropped it to 5/20 hits and would mostly pepper around the target. Thats where the 20 inch came in and wind or not, it was incredibly consistent. Unfortunately the next furthest steel is 875 yards, and so far any 308 I've taken out there can knock that one until I run out of ammo, even with decent wind pending its anything but ball ammo. The 168s (Hornady or FGMM) fly VERY well out of that gun, they are just limited to about 900 yards before they go subsonic and become impossible to "mortar" onto the steel. It didn't like 175 FGMM and had a hard time getting below 1 inch consistently, but it would do well with 155 SMKs with 47 gr of Varget that I loaded up without doing any real development.

Most on here love to hate on the REPR, but if you put the effort in, they are GREAT rifles! Soft shooting, incredibly reliable, they run very clean, still by far one of the sexiest AR10 platforms available, and I love the side charger. I have my eye on the new LWRC CSASS, but they dropped the side charger and likely didn't do much to make it any more accurate, so unless I hate the LaRue, I probably won't get another one unless I walk into a trade on a new 20 inch well in my favor, or they make something like a 6.5 CM / 260 Rem and I can get it under 1 inch consistently.

Awesome thanks for that info. I have the 16" version myself and am just starting to work up some hand loads since the snow and cold weather are finally on the way out. I have about 900rds of the moly 168 Amax's that I am going to load up. Today I bought a box of the 175 SMK with the "ballistic tips", first I've seen of those, I know I'm late to the party haha and a box of the Berger 185 Juggernaut's since I've heard these are the bees knees. Any load data or suggestions for those two bullets?

 

[Fenix Mike]

Awesome thanks for that info. I have the 16" version myself and am just starting to work up some hand loads since the snow and cold weather are finally on the way out. I have about 900rds of the moly 168 Amax's that I am going to load up. Today I bought a box of the 175 SMK with the "ballistic tips", first I've seen of those, I know I'm late to the party haha and a box of the Berger 185 Juggernaut's since I've heard these are the bees knees. Any load data or suggestions for those two bullets?

I will have to see if I have my targets around from when I was testing loads, there were two sweet spots using the 178 amax with one being 42.X grains, and the other being 43.2 that I ended up keeping for the velocity if youre using Varget. I went all the way to 44.0 grains, but anything above 43.5 wasn't picking up any velocity and started having some decent extractor marks on the brass. Other than flat primers, there weren't any pressure signs at 43.2 and SD was around 5-9 on the groups. I haven't tried the 185s, and I would have to dig up the 168 stuff. 155s I ran with 47 gr but never had time to chrono them as I only had 150 bullets and just loaded them because I had them. 175 and 178 load data is pretty close, but as always, start low and work up. I tried some CFE223 as well when I couldn't find varget for a while and it had some great velocity, I just couldn't find a solid number that would group as well as the varget, and it had pressure signs pretty quick.

Edit - had a few of my chrono sessions saved, this was 43.3g Varget, 178 amax, Federal primer, FC brass, 2.800 COAL. Altitude was true, not DA.

Created: 11/09/16 08:47
Description: Repr 20 inch
Notes 1: 43.3 gr varget 178 amax
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono(FT): 5.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.595
Bullet Weight(gr): 178.00
Temp: 80 °F
BP: N/A inHg
Altitude: 2400.00
# FPS
10 2529
9 2523
8 2531
7 2545
6 2547
5 2546
4 2533
3 2532
2 2532
1 2523
Average: 2534.1 FPS
SD: 8.9 FPS
Min: 2523 FPS
Max: 2547 FPS
Spread: 24 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.1
True MV: 2536 FPS

 

[californiasushi]

Thanks for the info. Isn't the 178 amax a g1 bc of .495?

 

[Fenix Mike]

Thanks for the info. Isn't the 178 amax a g1 bc of .495?

I don't remember, I pulled it off Hornadys site, but its no longer on there as the 178 ELD is up now... I checked my ballistics app and it does show .495 on there, so may have just fat fingered it in my cell phone when I was entering data. Its pretty irrelevant for chrono purposes anyway since I don't use that software for anything except FPS and recording data.

 

[30calDeath]

I will have to see if I have my targets around from when I was testing loads, there were two sweet spots using the 178 amax with one being 42.X grains, and the other being 43.2 that I ended up keeping for the velocity if youre using Varget. I went all the way to 44.0 grains, but anything above 43.5 wasn't picking up any velocity and started having some decent extractor marks on the brass. Other than flat primers, there weren't any pressure signs at 43.2 and SD was around 5-9 on the groups. I haven't tried the 185s, and I would have to dig up the 168 stuff. 155s I ran with 47 gr but never had time to chrono them as I only had 150 bullets and just loaded them because I had them. 175 and 178 load data is pretty close, but as always, start low and work up. I tried some CFE223 as well when I couldn't find varget for a while and it had some great velocity, I just couldn't find a solid number that would group as well as the varget, and it had pressure signs pretty quick.

Edit - had a few of my chrono sessions saved, this was 43.3g Varget, 178 amax, Federal primer, FC brass, 2.800 COAL. Altitude was true, not DA.

Created: 11/09/16 08:47
Description: Repr 20 inch
Notes 1: 43.3 gr varget 178 amax
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono(FT): 5.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.595
Bullet Weight(gr): 178.00
Temp: 80 °F
BP: N/A inHg
Altitude: 2400.00
# FPS
10 2529
9 2523
8 2531
7 2545
6 2547
5 2546
4 2533
3 2532
2 2532
1 2523
Average: 2534.1 FPS
SD: 8.9 FPS
Min: 2523 FPS
Max: 2547 FPS
Spread: 24 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.1
True MV: 2536 FPS

Thank you.

 

[Strykervet]

GAP and KAC have the exact same guarantee. Less than 1MOA; could be .99MOA and still pass though.

Differences are these: GAP will use a standard receiver set, KAC uses their proprietary receiver set --full ambi, all built into it. Both use cut rifle barrels. GAP uses a standard gas block while KAC uses a new proprietary gas block that slides over the barrel and has a locknut that threads onto the barrel itself in front of the gas block. The GAP uses it's own rail system or one they prefer. KAC comes with either keymod or m-lok, your choice, or you can always buy a rail and change it out but it'll be heavy. The new KAC rifles dropped some weight with the new tubes (one piece designs, are awesome) and they only use SOPMOD stocks now. This bothered me at first, but I only use SOPMOD stocks on my carbines anyway, figured I'd give it a shot before I bought the KAC fixed stock... Turns out I LIKE the SOPMOD on a 20" 7.62 rifle! Comes with tons of shit, I put a USO scope on it for the time being and an Atlas bipod and PEQ and called it a day. Oh, I bought more mags, got 10 or so and the can to fit it, but still waiting on the can. The KAC comes with a 2stage trigger I figured I'd have to change (the GAP comes with a Geissele) but turns out the KAC 2stage trigger ain't nothing to snot at, so I decided to leave it all stock. It's the only rifle I have that is 100% stock, but if I have to buy more AR's I'll be using KAC now that I know their triggers are good and all their new rifles have the new full ambi lowers with SOPMOD stocks. Nothing to change.

KAC makes good shit that is both accurate and reliable. They have always been my go-to for parts and most of my stuff uses their tubes or sights or rails. GAP makes a good rifle, one like I'd probably make actually, but with a different rail, backup sights, etc. That'd all be KAC.

Only other possible choices would be the new FN rifles (but I only know they look cool, may have a 1MOA guarantee) they are modified, accurized SCAR17's. The other one I considered was the HK 7.62, but since you can't get the G28 configuration, why bother spending more for it? It's also shorter (I wanted 20") and costs more than KAC or GAP to get basically what I didn't really want. For a gas piston operated 7.62 AR, the HK is really the go-to maker IMO. KAC is the go-to for DI rifles, hell, they invented it.

95% of your accuracy from any AR platform will have to do with the barrel, period. A fine cut rifle is what I prefer, but I don't snot at Lijla button rifle barrels either. With KAC or GAP, you'll be getting a cut rifle barrel. I think FN and HK use chrome lined hammer forged --stronger and they can be damn accurate, just not generally known to be as accurate as the cut rifle SS barrels.

KAC makes one 16" model, the lightest one, with a thinner barrel profile and it has chrome lined cut rifling. Which is damn rare and best of both worlds I guess.

For prices and CS, it was hard to beat KAC. Now I know some of you are laughing at that last line, but I actually know a guy there that I deal with as well as a few other contacts at KAC, and I get spot on CS. As a disabled vet, I get discounts and they even opened a military account for me. They've traded in TRASHED parts for NIB ones, shit run over by tanks and my fault. Never let me down, in or out of service. They do take their time putting orders together, but hey, rather 'em do it right than hurry it up and fuck it up. Besides, what's another week, you been waiting this long?

If I have to take something untested into a fight or I need to depend on it, then KAC is also my go-to. I expect their shit to work right out of the box with nothing more than a loaded mag and a spray of CLP on the BCG, and it can generally hold off on the CLP for a while. Their new receivers were the big game changer and what puts them in front for me now, 5.56 or 7.62.