Staball Match

[357Max]

Thanks MK. Makes sense now. Will do definitely.

I just posted this in the other Staball Match thread. Take a look.
Match is a terrible powder choice for 6.5C

@TryLikeHell - In addition to buying a paper back manual, you can download Gordon's Reloading tool for free. Be warned though, garbage in garbage out. You need to get a good fundamental understanding of reloading before you'll be able to safely utilize a simulation like Gordon's.

Staball hd and match

@TxWelder35 i don't have any pressure signs, 25 was just where i stopped. Coincidentally I was hoping to be around 2850. Per the Hodgdon data I'm where I should be. I'll explore this 25gr area more.

www.snipershide.com

 

[MK20]

Thanks MK. Makes sense now. Will do definitely.

This is what you need.

10 bucks.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1025893046?pid=903310&utm_campaign=Books,%20Videos%20&%20Software%20-%20Books&utm_content=903310&adlclid=11e1c121661f1679b9a6a2c64c617a4c&utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=bing&utm_term=4584894776053357&adlclid=ADL-ed21ff94-bfb6-4a7e-a3e5-f925cd1afafd

 

[TryLikeHell]

I just posted this in the other Staball Match thread. Take a look.
Match is a terrible powder choice for 6.5C

@TryLikeHell - In addition to buying a paper back manual, you can download Gordon's Reloading tool for free. Be warned though, garbage in garbage out. You need to get a good fundamental understanding of reloading before you'll be able to safely utilize a simulation like Gordon's.

Staball hd and match

@TxWelder35 i don't have any pressure signs, 25 was just where i stopped. Coincidentally I was hoping to be around 2850. Per the Hodgdon data I'm where I should be. I'll explore this 25gr area more.

www.snipershide.com

I've got quite a few 143 ELD-X bullets, what powder would you recommend ? Just saw your reply thanks!

 

[MK20]

There are a bunch of suitable powders. I sent you a PM cause it looks like you need a quick spin up on the whole reloading thing and you will be GTG.
The book will tell you which powders will work well.

 

[357Max]

I've got quite a few 143 ELD-X bullets, what powder would you recommend ? Just saw your reply thanks!

For that weight class my favorites are H4350, RL16, & N555. These are all extruded powders. Staball 6.5 is also appropriate but will most likley have larger SD's, at least in my experience.

 

[MK20]

Update.

Reloaded a batch of stuff today. Same as before.

Temp testing begins tomorrow.

5 rounds in each jar. Laser temp scanner.

5 rounds will stay behind the stove overnight at about 105 deg

The other 5 rounds will stay on the bench at room temp.

The last 5 rounds will stay in the freezer overnight.

I'll post up tomorrow with results.

 

[MK20]

UPDATE:

Frozen rounds
5 deg F
2794 fps

Room temp rounds
60 deg F
2786 fps

Heated rounds
150 deg F
2860 fps


Looks like this powder is a winner, gents.

Fast, temp stable to a high degree, meters well, USA made, so availability should be good, and reasonably priced considering the current market.

Hodgdon, get ready to make a shitload of this stuff because you will sell all of it.

 

[MK20]

And for those who will freak a bit at the fps gain with the warm powder, even Varget will start to climb a bit at temp over around 80 fps.

I heated that ammo until it was almost too hot to touch. For your ammo to get that hot you would have to put it out in the sun for a while in Helmand Province in the summer.

Some FPS gain is unavoidable even with the best powders.

 

[6.5SH]

And for those who will freak a bit at the fps gain with the warm powder, even Varget will start to climb a bit at temp over around 80 fps.

I heated that ammo until it was almost too hot to touch. For your ammo to get that hot you would have to put it out in the sun for a while in Helmand Province in the summer.

Some FPS gain is unavoidable even with the best powders.

It was 0.82 fps per degree from 60 to 150 degrees, that is outstanding for a ball powder.

 

[beetroot]

Burn rate wise this is pretty close to Varget by looks of things?
Was there a more temp stable version of the OG StaBall also?

 

[6.5SH]

Burn rate wise this is pretty close to Varget by looks of things?
Was there a more temp stable version of the OG StaBall also?

Slightly slower burning than Varget, slightly faster than CFE 223 by the chart and Hodgdon's statements in the 2023 manual.

StaBALL 6.5 was the first in this line and is more temp stable than traditional ball powders. Not heard of a change to make it even more so.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Slightly slower burning than Varget, slightly faster than CFE 223 by the chart and Hodgdon's statements in the 2023 manual.

StaBALL 6.5 was the first in this line and is more temp stable than traditional ball powders. Not heard of a change to make it even more so.

That's right. It's 6.5staball, and it is pretty good temp stability for a ball. Then the new 6.5staball Match and 6.5Staball HD. Looks like the 6.5S Match is really good temp stability

 

[CK1.0]

UPDATE:

Frozen rounds
5 deg F
2794 fps

Room temp rounds
60 deg F
2786 fps

Heated rounds
150 deg F
2860 fps


Looks like this powder is a winner, gents.

Fast, temp stable to a high degree, meters well, USA made, so availability should be good, and reasonably priced considering the current market.

Hodgdon, get ready to make a shitload of this stuff because you will sell all of it.

This is good info, thanks.

I've shot a shitload of StaBall 6.5, and from my experience, its Achilles heel is cold temperatures... as it warms up its MV rises with temperatures fairly linearly, but in the cold, it can be an unpredictable shit show lol.

This Match stuff looks to be significantly more temp stable down there.

 

[alamo5000]

I’m testing it with 69 & 77 SMK’s and TMK’s in 223.

Hogdon doesn't have load data for the 69gr. Once you get some results with that bullet please tag me or otherwise let me know. Interested in results.

 

[MK20]

That's right. It's 6.5staball, and it is pretty good temp stability for a ball. Then the new 6.5staball Match and 6.5Staball HD. Looks like the 6.5S Match is really good temp stability

It is Staball Match, not 6.5 Staball Match

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

It is Staball Match, not 6.5 Staball Match

Oh is it? Ok, thanks.

 

[6.5SH]

Hogdon doesn't have load data for the 69gr. Once you get some results with that bullet please tag me or otherwise let me know. Interested in results.

The book does list data for a .224 70 gr SPR SP.
Start 23.0 gr @ 2605 fps, Max 25.3gr Compressed @ 2889 fps

Oddly enough those are the same charge ranges as the 75 gr JLK VLD
Although there is clearly a typo in the book (and online...) for the velocity.
They list 3246 fps for the 23 gr load and 2850 fps for the 25.3 grain, that clearly isn't right nor reversed.

 

[alamo5000]

The book does list data for a .224 70 gr SPR SP.
Start 23.0 gr @ 2605 fps, Max 25.3gr Compressed @ 2889 fps

Oddly enough those are the same charge ranges as the 75 gr JLK VLD
Although there is clearly a typo in the book (and online...) for the velocity.
They list 3246 fps for the 23 gr load and 2850 fps for the 25.3 grain, that clearly isn't right nor reversed.

I just looked online on the reloading center and the data isn't there (yet). Eventually they will update that side of things. I don't have that particular manual so thanks for sharing.

 

[beetroot]

Slightly slower burning than Varget, slightly faster than CFE 223 by the chart and Hodgdon's statements in the 2023 manual.

StaBALL 6.5 was the first in this line and is more temp stable than traditional ball powders. Not heard of a change to make it even more so.

Thats what I thought was the case, at the inital announcement I thought they were re-doing the OG StaBall.
Nice to have another good option to Varget.

 

[357Max]

Follow up to my post #40 from the range today.

I8" Proof with Vltor A5 H2 bi-pod/bag.

Previously with Mk262 clone loads I'd only shot 3 shot groups checking speeds & looking for workable loads.
Best were

Staball Match
25.1 2772 / 3.6 / .822" No bolt lock on empty
25.4 2804 / 11.5 / .819" No bolt lock, no swipes, no flow. Will try at 25.7
Accurate 2520
25.1 2735 / 6.0 / .464" Bolt lock
25.4 2786 / 10.0 / .175" Bolt lock. Nothing ugly on brass.

Today I shot 5 shot groups & tweaked loads a bit hoping to get a little better accuracy from the match & succeeded. Hopefully SD's will improve with fire formed brass & GM205AR or cci #41 primers.

Changed OAL from 2.255 to 2.265. Still using all virgin 223 IVI Ruag primed brass.
77 SMK Staball Match
25.2 2737 / 16.4 / .535" Locked back on last round. Brass GTG. Still faster than the Black Hills 77.

Also Confirmed my gun just plain likes Accurate 2520 better with these MK262 loads.
77 SMK @ 2.255 Acc 2520
25.3 2758 / 10.3 / .368" Lock back & brass GTG.

 

[ma smith]

The 64K question now is what happens with pressure level when speeds get to 2800-2820, not as a target speed, but as a headroom for say unexpected ES of 80 or a round cooking off in the chamber, etc.

 

[MK20]

The 64K question now is what happens with pressure level when speeds get to 2800-2820, not as a target speed, but as a headroom for say unexpected ES of 80 or a round cooking off in the chamber, etc.

Well, considering that I took my 2800 fps load and cooked it to 150 deg and fired it fine I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[ma smith]

Well, considering that I took my 2800 fps load and cooked it to 150 deg and fired it fine I wouldn't worry too much.

Agreed, I think this is the main takeaway...

So these results look quite promising.

Cheers.

 

[Kiba]

Any chance you might be able to repeat your hi temp testing at maybe 100-110f instead of 150f?

Reason I ask is I sometimes shoot in 100-110f weather in the summer. Can't say I've been shooting when it's 150f outside, lol. Be nice to see the velocity change from 5f to 110f which covers pretty much the entire temp range I would carry the ammo in and shoot in.

Your 150f test does simulate a warm chamber or leaving the ammo out in the sun on a hot day though, and that temp stability looks really good overall.

 

[MK20]

Any chance you might be able to repeat your hi temp testing at maybe 100-110f instead of 150f?

Reason I ask is I sometimes shoot in 100-110f weather in the summer. Can't say I've been shooting when it's 150f outside, lol. Be nice to see the velocity change from 5f to 110f which covers pretty much the entire temp range I would carry the ammo in and shoot in.

Your 150f test does simulate a warm chamber or leaving the ammo out in the sun on a hot day though, and that temp stability looks really good overall.

I can do that here in a day or two.

 

[FNG1001]

how does it compare to h4350? those results will potentially turn a lot of reloading on its head.

 

[Kiba]

how does it compare to h4350? those results will potentially turn a lot of reloading on its head.

Too fast for that, staball 6.5 is closer to the burn rate of H4350.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

I heated that ammo until it was almost too hot to touch. For your ammo to get that hot you would have to put it out in the sun for a while in Helmand Province in the summer.

Some FPS gain is unavoidable even with the best powders.

Where we live (in Louisiana) and where our son lives (in northwest Florida) You really have to keep the ammo in the shade, or it will be too hot to touch. Barrels? got to watch out for them too. They get real hot real quick.

During extended periods of firing at Ft. Polk, you could light a cigarette off the barrel of our M-16’s. It gets hot

Hard to do hot weather testing in our area because the heat of the barrel in summer affects the results.

 

[6.5SH]

I just got my jug of Staball Match in today and ran some loads through my gun to just test velocity.

I will be ordering more of this stuff.

Here are the specs.

18" WOA SPR running a H3 buffer.

LC cases.

Win primers

75 gr Hornady BTHP


Hornady's starting load gave me 2600 fps

25.0 gr 2730 fps

25.3gr 2818 fps

25.5 gr 2824 fps

25.9 gr 2832 fps

I saw an ejector swipe on the 25.3 but not on any higher charges, so idk. Primers looked fine on all. The higher charges were flat, but not overly so.

Hodgdon's data tops out at 25.3 at 55K psi. As you can see from my shot data, the velocity seems to top out there so there is no reason to drive the pressure higher.

I did get noticeably more gas in the face as I went above the book max.


As seen above, this powder lets me beat MK 262 velocity with an easy metering powder that is supposedly temp stable.

It beat my hot 8208 load by 50 fps in the same gun.

I will be doing some temp sensitivity testing in the next few days.

Already, I will be picking up more of this stuff just based on the velocity numbers.

I'm using the same WOA barrel and 75 gr Hornady Bullets. Chose 25.0 and 24.8 grains based on your velocities. Used new Lapua brass and older WSR primers (nickle plated).

At 70' F mine was slower than yours but the results were acceptable.

25.0 grains 2668 fps avg, 4.5 SD, .613 MOA for 5 shots.
24.8 grains 2649 fps avg, 9.7 SD, .785 MOA for 5 shots.

Both were fired in a hurry so I likely can do better on the precision front. Will make some more and see if the trends above hold or how far they expand.

 

[MK20]

My barrel seems to be a fast one. I guess I got lucky.

I think yours can go faster.

 

[MK20]

Getting ready for Staball Match in 308 testing here soon.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Going to test this in my 6mm ARC. Running lever now, and have 12lbs of it, but want something more temp stable.

I bought stabal 6.5 6 months ago for $36 a lb. The lb of staball match i got yesterday was $47

Lever is still $36, but as long as I can get the same speeds, Ill run the match powder.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

This stuff seems bigger than lever, at 31gr, my 6arc case was about full, but I didnt have pressure signs.

Here's my info with lever, I cant remember if I ran 105 or 107's with this, but the Staball is with 107gr bullet.
30 - 2722
.2 - 2766
.4 - 2769
.6 - 2767
.8 - 2782
31 - 2787

Staball with 107 SMK
30 - 2664
.2 - 2696
.4 - 2683
.6 - 2745
.8 - 2749
31 - 2772

Not too much difference in speed. I think Ill load up some rounds to shoot in the morning with this powder and see how they group, if I get good luck, I reckon Ill have a crap ton of lever to sell.

 

[MK20]

Did some 308 testing today really quick. The velocities are there for this to be a good replacement powder for heavy 308.

I shot one round through a gun with a brake and went and got another as it put a TON of gas out of that brake.

Loud as hell.

 

[FNG1001]

Waiting to see a test comparing FPS vs temperature change, and how it compares to Varget.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Waiting to see a test comparing FPS vs temperature change, and how it compares to Varget.

I would not replace varget with this. In my area, they are the same price, id take varget everytime.

 

[NHPiper]

Anyone try the StaBall Match in 223AI rifles yet?

I have an 18" Mullerworks that launches 80gr ELD bullets at 2803fps out on Winchester brass with CCI400 primers and 25.6gr of Varget. Would love to see what StaBall does.

 

[999Robots]

This stuff seems bigger than lever, at 31gr, my 6arc case was about full, but I didnt have pressure signs.

Here's my info with lever, I cant remember if I ran 105 or 107's with this, but the Staball is with 107gr bullet.
30 - 2722
.2 - 2766
.4 - 2769
.6 - 2767
.8 - 2782
31 - 2787

Staball with 107 SMK
30 - 2664
.2 - 2696
.4 - 2683
.6 - 2745
.8 - 2749
31 - 2772

Not too much difference in speed. I think Ill load up some rounds to shoot in the morning with this powder and see how they group, if I get good luck, I reckon Ill have a crap ton of lever to sell.

Are you loading for a bolt or gas gun? Thanks.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Are you loading for a bolt or gas gun? Thanks.

bolt
Ive since swapped the 18" barrel out for a 22" and am using Varget and trying some 95gr bergers.

 

[ma smith]

They really got too greedy with the pricing on staball match. Its never going to be as accurate or as temp in-sensitive as the best stick powders. Its therefore never going to elimiante the need to stock all those other high-performance stick powders. But maybe I'm missing something.

 

[6.5SH]

They really got too greedy with the pricing on staball match. Its never going to be as accurate or as temp in-sensitive as the best stick powders. Its therefore never going to elimiante the need to stock all those other high-performance stick powders. But maybe I'm missing something.

Made in the USA and a given weight of ball powder can be produced in less time than extruded/stick powder.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

They really got too greedy with the pricing on staball match. Its never going to be as accurate or as temp in-sensitive as the best stick powders. Its therefore never going to elimiante the need to stock all those other high-performance stick powders. But maybe I'm missing something.

Thats why Im sticking with varget.
I had a friend pick me up 1lb of Match, assuming it was $36 like Staball 6.5 is... when he told me it was right at $50 after taxes, i said screw that!

Im going to my local store every 2 weeks and grabbing 1lb of Varget and H4350. Stashing it away.

 

[ZA206]

I think they are screwing themselves on the pricing. This and SW Precision Rifle are too expensive to really compete with Varget and N140. It used to be I'd never consider shooting VV powders because they were so expensive. It's laughable that Winchester/Hogdon is charging the same for a ball powder as premium VV powder. SW Precision was inline to take over for Varget when it was 65% the cost of Varget, now that it's MORE than Varget... LOL! That's nuts.

 

[MK20]

Varget, cheapest price for 8 lbs right now online, 445.95

Staball Match, cheapest price for 8 lbs right now online, 295.95

Don't believe the pricing that is being quoted to you on here by a guy who obviously has some unknown interest in denigrating Staball Match.

 

[NHPiper]

I have had good luck with StaBall. It is generally cheaper than Varget and shoots like 8208XBR, or about 100fps faster than Varget.

I am playing with it now in a 223AI after developing loads for 77gr SMK in my Mk12.

I found that out of an 18” Mullerworks 1:7.5“ twist barrel, I am getting 2811fps with an SD of 10 with a charge of 27.1gr using 80gr Amax bullets and loaded off a Dillon 650. Shoouts 3/4 MOA or better, so next step is seating depth. There is probably an accuracy node higher up, and I ran charges up to 27.9gr, but there was enough powder compression that I wanted to steer away.

I paid like $340 for an 8lbs tub, versus like $500 for the same amount of Varget.

 

[MK20]

They really got too greedy with the pricing on staball match. Its never going to be as accurate or as temp in-sensitive as the best stick powders. Its therefore never going to elimiante the need to stock all those other high-performance stick powders. But maybe I'm missing something.

Yep, you missed the temp stability test I did earlier in this thread. Match is impressive.

 

[Cornerstonearmory]

Compared StaBall Match with Accurate 2520 today on my quest for a Mk262 clone.
Both loads were 25.2g of powder, tested back to back with CCI #41 primers, Sierra 77g OT match kings.
Out of a 13.7” 5.56.
StaBall is the top, Accurate is the bottom. Pretty darn close lol.
A few ejector swipes on a few pieces of brass, but nothing overly concerning.
Accuracy test in the next few days.

 

[Kadams1563]

I have had good luck with StaBall. It is generally cheaper than Varget and shoots like 8208XBR, or about 100fps faster than Varget.

I am playing with it now in a 223AI after developing loads for 77gr SMK in my Mk12.

I found that out of an 18” Mullerworks 1:7.5“ twist barrel, I am getting 2811fps with an SD of 10 with a charge of 27.1gr using 80gr Amax bullets and loaded off a Dillon 650. Shoouts 3/4 MOA or better, so next step is seating depth. There is probably an accuracy node higher up, and I ran charges up to 27.9gr, but there was enough powder compression that I wanted to steer away.

I paid like $340 for an 8lbs tub, versus like $500 for the same amount of Varget.

How did your testing end up? I’m am looking to load for 80 grain eld’s in a .223 AI. Have access to Varget if that would be better suited.

 

[NHPiper]

How did your testing end up? I’m am looking to load for 80 grain eld’s in a .223 AI. Have access to Varget if that would be better suited.

Check out this thread! I'm all in on this the StaBall Match. I think it's post #17.

Shorty 223AI Builds

So @WillHugh and I sent out 223AI barreled actions to get turned down to 18" and profiled for OCM5/AEM5 suppressors. The goal was to build intermediate range, low recoil, bolt guns that bridged the gap between Mk12 gas guns and 6.5CM capabilities. If velocities of 2850fps with 80gr ELDs are...

www.snipershide.com

When true the velocity at 870 yards, it went down to 2810 to update the ballistic coefficient in my Kestrel.

Consistently shoots half MOA in the gun.

 

[Cornerstonearmory]

How did your testing end up? I’m am looking to load for 80 grain eld’s in a .223 AI. Have access to Varget if that would be better suited.

Testing went pretty good.
These groups were shot @100 yards with a 1-8 ATACR so read into them as you may. But they were as about as I expected them to be.