Stainless vs Chrome Moly Barrel Accuracy

[DasNightmare]

This is kind of a stupid, but from an aesthetic standpoint I don't like stainless steel on guns. The bright shiny silver just does not do it for me. However I've read that stainless is often a better choice because it won't rust and is much more resistant to the environment in general. In addition, most replacement barrels seem to be in stainless steel. Regardless, my main concern is accuracy and performance.

Which type, if either, is more accurate?

Is it possible and easy/cheap to repaint or refinish a stainless barrel and action?

 

[loveha]

Can't help you with the first parts, but any stainless barrel can be coated in whatever you like. Currently having mine Cerakoted to include the action, bolt, and everything else.

 

[Steel head]

Shilen used to have an article about the differences of the two floating around.

 

[DasNightmare]

Can't help you with the first parts, but any stainless barrel can be coated in whatever you like. Currently having mine Cerakoted to include the action, bolt, and everything else.

Where do you send it to get Cerakoted and how much does it cost? I looked on Cerakotes website and the map doesn't show any dealers near me so it looks like I'd have to ship

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

@Frank Green talks about it some in this thread, page 3 I believe:
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/how-were-03-and-garand-barrels-rifled.6978617/

Theres no difference really unless you're running full auto

 

[loveha]

Can ship to anybody really. Mine is currently being done at West Michigan Cerakote. Mostly because I live in Michigan and didn't want it to travel further than it had to in the mail. Then the sky is the limit on what color you want. Just recommend you ship anything you want in a boxed gun case.

 

[marshall2015]

• • From Krieger barrels website
  • 
    
  • Which is better - chrome moly or stainless steel?
• For the most part neither one is better than the other. The only difference we find is that sometimes the chrome moly might take a little longer to break-in and might have a little more affinity for copper or seems to show it easier. In terms of barrel life and accuracy, we can find no difference comparing clean barrels.
• 
  
  
  
  

 

[marshall2015]

I have read that stainless became the norm on match rifles because it's something that wears out and needs to be replaced. Stainless doesnt need to be coated and chrome moly does to prevent rust. So instead of paying extra for coating on something that's going to need to be replaced, they just used stainless barrels. I think any good barrel maker can make an accurate barrel out of either. I have a chrome moly shilen and have no complaints.

 

[FatBoy]

I have read that stainless became the norm on match rifles because it's something that wears out and needs to be replaced. Stainless doesnt need to be coated and chrome moly does to prevent rust. So instead of paying extra for coating on something that's going to need to be replaced, they just used stainless barrels. I think any good barrel maker can make an accurate barrel out of either. I have a chrome moly shilen and have no complaints.

I have both. On my match rifles I just go head blast stainless because its only going to make a season anyway. Also, the stainless is easier on my guys reamers. My Chomoly shoots exactly the same but did take a but longer to settle down. Maybe an extra 50-60 rounds of 300WM.

 

[Heretoimproveforhunting]

on stainless you can glass bead it to take some of the shine off. also hit it with a $5 bottle of rattle can. change your mind yu can always strip it back off

 

[Frank Green]

@Frank Green talks about it some in this thread, page 3 I believe:
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/how-were-03-and-garand-barrels-rifled.6978617/

Theres no difference really unless you're running full auto

Even full auto I'll say no difference. We've made plenty of barrels both out of c.m. and s.s. for manufacturers and the barrels where being used for R&D on full auto guns.

 

[Frank Green]

This is kind of a stupid, but from an aesthetic standpoint I don't like stainless steel on guns. The bright shiny silver just does not do it for me. However I've read that stainless is often a better choice because it won't rust and is much more resistant to the environment in general. In addition, most replacement barrels seem to be in stainless steel. Regardless, my main concern is accuracy and performance.

Which type, if either, is more accurate?

Is it possible and easy/cheap to repaint or refinish a stainless barrel and action?

No difference in accuracy.

They will wear differently but that's about it.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[BurnOut]

I recall reading somewhere (on the Internet... and they can't put it on the Internet if it isn't true; I read that on the Internet, too) that the prevalence of SS in custom barrels has to do with its machining qualities... like, it doesn't chew up tooling as quickly as CM does, or it's easier to hit/hold given tolerance with SS, or something like that. In any event, I'd certainly say that @Frank Green knows a hell of a lot more about it than I ever will, so take this "info" with a grain of salt.

Oh, and as always, I retain the right to be wrong... but look forward to any learning opportunities that result.

 

[308pirate]

Regardless, my main concern is accuracy and performance.

Which type, if either, is more accurate?

Is it possible and easy/cheap to repaint or refinish a stainless barrel and action?

The steel a barrel is made of has absolutely nothing to do with its accuracy.

You can paint stainless all day. Cerakote is typical for guns. Fuck you could use krylon.

 

[brianf]

if @Frank Green puts his knowledge on a barrel thread...it should prob stop right there.

just sayin'

 

[Frank Green]

if @Frank Green puts his knowledge on a barrel thread...it should prob stop right there.

just sayin'

Thanks!

I don't know everything. If I feel it is for fact....I'll tell you that. If it's my opinion I'll tell you what I base it on. If I don't know I'll tell ya I don't know and sometimes I know someone that can get me the answer.

There are more variables in this stuff then you can shake a stick at. So everyone keep that in mind.

Back quick to the cm vs the ss question.

We've made ammunition test barrels in both c.m. and s.s. and in accuracy and pressure test barrels and all the feed back I've received back from ammo and bullet makers is that for the most part they see no difference.

That backs up what I've seen here/in real life.

30+ years ago I was at a hi power match and one shooter says to me, "Hey I see you have a cm barrel on your gun." I said yes, why? He said you want ss it lasts a 1000 rounds longer in 308win. Me being a new shooter vs this older gent I figured he knew what he was talking about. Well from what I've learned....that's BS!

I will say the cm and ss do wear differently. I will also say I feel the cm stands up to damage from improper cleaning at times. First thing that takes a beating more than anything else is the muzzles crown. So at times I'll lean towards cm being tougher per say but in the grand scheme of things when it comes to accuracy and barrel life....I can see no difference.

Later, Frank

 

[smoothy8500]

I will say the cm and ss do wear differently.

It seems in High Power circles the conventional wisdom is that even though the lifespan is the same, the accuracy loss in CM barrels is a gradual taper vs SS having a more abrupt change. Is there any truth to this?

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Thanks!

I don't know everything. If I feel it is for fact....I'll tell you that. If it's my opinion I'll tell you what I base it on. If I don't know I'll tell ya I don't know and sometimes I know someone that can get me the answer.

There are more variables in this stuff then you can shake a stick at. So everyone keep that in mind.

Back quick to the cm vs the ss question.

We've made ammunition test barrels in both c.m. and s.s. and in accuracy and pressure test barrels and all the feed back I've received back from ammo and bullet makers is that for the most part they see no difference.

That backs up what I've seen here/in real life.

30+ years ago I was at a hi power match and one shooter says to me, "Hey I see you have a cm barrel on your gun." I said yes, why? He said you want ss it lasts a 1000 rounds longer in 308win. Me being a new shooter vs this older gent I figured he knew what he was talking about. Well from what I've learned....that's BS!

I will say the cm and ss do wear differently. I will also say I feel the cm stands up to damage from improper cleaning at times. First thing that takes a beating more than anything else is the muzzles crown. So at times I'll lean towards cm being tougher per say but in the grand scheme of things when it comes to accuracy and barrel life....I can see no difference.

Later, Frank

Mr Obermeyer says moly coated bullets will extend barrel life in CM barrels at least.. is that the case for SS also?

 

[308pirate]

It seems in High Power circles the conventional wisdom is that even though the lifespan is the same, the accuracy loss in CM barrels is a gradual taper vs SS having a more abrupt change. Is there any truth to this?

No

 

[Frank Green]

It seems in High Power circles the conventional wisdom is that even though the lifespan is the same, the accuracy loss in CM barrels is a gradual taper vs SS having a more abrupt change. Is there any truth to this?

I say no.

What I will say is that from what I've seen and data I've gotten back is the button barrels tend to go with out warning. Cut barrels die a slow death. Not to say a cut barrel cannot just all of a sudden give up the ghost I just don't see it as a norm.

Also coming at it from a hi power shooters point of view....if you notice your scores etc...at 300 yards and less are normal but your losing your X count at 600 yards and dropping a couple of points to boot....that's a sign the barrel is on it's last legs. It will shoot good at short range but 500 yards and further you notice the groups opening it up / your X count dropping.

Keep in mind the style of shooting a guy does, what the barrel is chambered in, the loads being run thru it, rate of fire and conditions the gun is being shot in and last but not least how it's being cleaned/maintained and how often all are variables that effect barrel life.

Later, Frank

 

[Frank Green]

Mr Obermeyer says moly coated bullets will extend barrel life in CM barrels at least.. is that the case for SS also?

I do remember Boot's saying that and I never asked or thought of asking him is if he was waxing his bullets or not and or what process and who's moly he was using.

With that being said though you won't catch me running any moly coated bullets thru any of my barrels. It's another variable that causes or can cause problems. I hate variables in my guns that are out of my control.

I say....it does nothing for barrel life, does nothing for velocity and accuracy is a wash. So what are you gaining?

I asked the same questions to one of the bullet/ammo makers back in the day when moly was the craze and they offered bullets with it on as an option. The ballistic lab guy told me the same thing. They see no accuracy difference and or barrel life etc...so then I asked, "Then why are you offering moly coated bullets?" The reply back was because the market is demanding it and we can make extra money at it.

So if the ammo/bullet maker isn't seeing a difference either.....and you have all the other variables thrown in...what's there to gain.

I will also say moly can layer up and cause fouling issues and if you don't clean properly in a timely manner it can cause pitting in the bore of the barrel. I've seen it. This guy waxes his bullets and the next guy doesn't. You usually lose a little velocity with it and you have to bump your powder charge to get the velocity back but in my opinion the pressure didn't drop per say. So what are you gaining?

Virtually all of the bench guys that I know of have gone away from it. Hmmm???

Later, Frank

 

[brianf]

not to get on the moly trend, but wasnt the big deal that you could get more velocity.
barrel life and "never clean again" was secondary benefit

 

[DasNightmare]

I will also say moly can layer up and cause fouling issues and if you don't clean properly in a timely manner it can cause pitting in the bore of the barrel

I will also say moly can layer up and cause fouling issues and if you don't clean properly in a timely manner it can cause pitting in the bore of the barrel. I've seen it.

I'm newish to this stuff but I know Bartlein is a well-known barrel maker so I figure I'll ask about cleaning.

After seeing what you said about accuracy I'm leaning towards going chrome moly on my next barrel. How do you you recommend cleaning a chorme moly barrel? Right now I have a Tipton carbon fiber rod and use a nylon bore brush with a bore guide. It seems like brass bore brushes do a lot better job cleaning, but I see some people saying they think brass brushes will damage the rifling or the muzzle crown. For cleaning, I do the standard push patches through with solvents followed by a few passes back and forth with the brush and then run a few more patches through. Maybe repeat that a couple of times then I leave a layer of oil in the bore for storage. I think my method is alright but I don't want to damage anything.

In addition, when and how often do you recommend cleaning them?

 

[brianf]

I will also say moly can layer up and cause fouling issues and if you don't clean properly in a timely manner it can cause pitting in the bore of the barrel


I'm newish to this stuff but I know Bartlein is a well-known barrel maker so I figure I'll ask about cleaning.

After seeing what you said about accuracy I'm leaning towards going chrome moly on my next barrel. How do you you recommend cleaning a chorme moly barrel? Right now I have a Tipton carbon fiber rod and use a nylon bore brush with a bore guide. It seems like brass bore brushes do a lot better job cleaning, but I see some people saying they think brass brushes will damage the rifling or the muzzle crown. For cleaning, I do the standard push patches through with solvents followed by a few passes back and forth with the brush and then run a few more patches through. Maybe repeat that a couple of times then I leave a layer of oil in the bore for storage. I think my method is alright but I don't want to damage anything.

In addition, when and how often do you recommend cleaning them?

Been doing the same forever never killed a barrel before the throat was gone from shooting.
Never needed a recrown etc.
bore guide and keep the brush and patches wet

Edit..iPhone

 

[Frank Green]

I will also say moly can layer up and cause fouling issues and if you don't clean properly in a timely manner it can cause pitting in the bore of the barrel


I'm newish to this stuff but I know Bartlein is a well-known barrel maker so I figure I'll ask about cleaning.

After seeing what you said about accuracy I'm leaning towards going chrome moly on my next barrel. How do you you recommend cleaning a chorme moly barrel? Right now I have a Tipton carbon fiber rod and use a nylon bore brush with a bore guide. It seems like brass bore brushes do a lot better job cleaning, but I see some people saying they think brass brushes will damage the rifling or the muzzle crown. For cleaning, I do the standard push patches through with solvents followed by a few passes back and forth with the brush and then run a few more patches through. Maybe repeat that a couple of times then I leave a layer of oil in the bore for storage. I think my method is alright but I don't want to damage anything.

In addition, when and how often do you recommend cleaning them?

The cleaning method between the two per say....I don't do anything different.

I only use a brush when I need to.

Do not and I repeat do not use a brush ever with an abrasive cleaner. Bore damage is guaranteed to happen.

How often is determined by how you shoot it, caliber it is chambered, the loads being shot thru it etc....

I tell guys this....learn to pay attention to your rifle. It'll tell you what's going on. You just have to learn how to read it.

Email me thru the work website and I can email you a cleaning guide line vs. rewriting a book here.

Later, Frank

 

[3KMSnpr]

This is kind of a stupid, but from an aesthetic standpoint I don't like stainless steel on guns. The bright shiny silver just does not do it for me. However I've read that stainless is often a better choice because it won't rust and is much more resistant to the environment in general. In addition, most replacement barrels seem to be in stainless steel. Regardless, my main concern is accuracy and performance.

Which type, if either, is more accurate?

Is it possible and easy/cheap to repaint or refinish a stainless barrel and action?

I yes and no. yeah by the experience there is no difference, but by the tech and validation yes there is. I want to say there will be no difference unless you go full auto like somebody here said. so what make difference is...which platform you are using. when I was in the team I used 20-inch stainless steel barrel on the AR platform with a suppressor. nitride coated. rapid-fire with a suppressor on a hot day with no shade in a steady position undercover, no airflow, really hit up the barrel of any kind and the surrounding air. that means while it is extremely hot it starts to make a larger grouping. not just SS but for any kind. but I found SS takes more time to go back to the original grouping, but I am telling you now, I really doubt anybody will make that kind of torturing environment. if they do, what is the point of trying to make your barrel less accurate and shoot. I was forced into the situation on my mission. and accuracy-wise? I believe it is not on the barrel unless you buy a sub $100, it is on your calculation and skill. I don't really think you need any skill for shooting with 18+ inches within 800 yards. beyond 800 yds is where you need the real skills and equipment . the real fun starts beyond the 800yrd.