Started shooting from prone this year...not good.

[Vodoun daVinci]

I can hit what I'm shooing at from the prone position but it is just killing me....can't find the target, can't get comfortable, can't seem to align with proper alignment and get the scope eye box consistent and when I finally fitz and futz and and get a sight picture I'm shaking and feel like I'm bent up (in my neck) like a pretzel.

I feel like I have to set my rifle/scope/cheek riser up from scratch to make it work from prone....is this normal? I'm shooting off a bipod with rear bag - is it seems more comfortable and consistent with the bipod up a little higher but I'm now doubting myself. I was shooting consistent 1/2 MOA off the bench and now I'm lucky to keep it under 2 MOA *but* I did manage to put 4 in a row through the same hole at 200 yards today prone but it felt like luck and almost killed me from the discomfort.

What am I doing wrong? Besides stupid I mean...

VooDoo

 

[spife7980]

Put the bipod higher where you dont have to scrunch your neck down to look through the scope. The higher the rifle the more you can have your head straight up and not tilted forward strained and looking through your eyebrows. You may find that your cheek piece needs to be slightly different to deal with your faces different positioning and rotation. How different? That depends on your personal geometry.

 

[Diver160651]

I hate to say this, but sometimes, some people need to work into a comfortable position over time; just like stretching. Sure higher can help, but some people hurt just laying face down even without a gun.

I have a 7o year old ex-spook who can not shoot prone. Today’s tripods like the RRS allow seating, kneeling or even a chair to be used very effectively away from the bench. Just tossing out options.

 

[sea2summit]

When I'm having issues with one of the children's, or my, groups opening up I go straight to barney style on getting into the prone. Lay the mat out lined up with the targets, set the rifle lined up with the targets, plant your dominant heal lined up with the rifle and the targets about your body length behind the rifle, now lower yourself into the rifle doing your best not to move that heal. As you seat the rifle in your shoulder you shouldn't move it much right to left and for me the "gun target line" goes from the targets, through the muzzle, through my shoulder, through my dominate hip, down my dominate leg to my heal. If I focus on that, get a good grip on the bag, good sight picture, close my eyes my natural point of aim doesn't drift more than 1/2-1 MOA.

That's about 10% of shooting prone, the other 90% is all the other fundamentals but that 10% does a lot to tighten up my groups when I'm struggling. Could just be a placebo that's getting my mind right too so take it for what it's worth.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

I'm 64+ and Mama watches me practice/dry fire prone and can't figure out how the fuck I can get there or even stand up afterwards. Maybe I'm too old now?
Fuck...that's gonna piss me off.

VooDoo

 

[davsco]

play around with varying bipod heights and cheekpiece heights to find what works for you.

 

[Supersubes]

I was just gonna ask, “are you old”? Lol old people always have trouble with prone. I set up guns for prone first. The other positions supported or not, are more flexible with regard to addressing the gun.

What spife said about it is what I’d recommend. The bigger you are the more that’s true as well.

 

[johnbrody0317]

Something a lot of people forget is a lot of skills are transferable. I practice flexibility often and do some resistance training in odd positions like resistance bands behind my head while in the prone to add weight to my head while holding it in the scope. I powerlift so I have to work extra on my flexibility.

 

[357Max]

Voodoo,

Aside from being a stiff necked old guy, you sure sound like your describing what would happen if your scope is set to far back.
length of pull off a bench with my AR's adjustable stock is 12.75, in prone that goes to 13.5"
When you go prone your head pivots forward.
Since you just started shooting prone, my money is on scope to close and having to scrunch your neck back.
With a bolt gun you have to compromise unless it's got tool less length of pull adjustment.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

*BaM!* Kinda what I'm thinking. It's not tool less but I have huge play with cheek riser and length of pull.

I think I might need to start turning screws...is higher or lower better on the bipod? All the way down (as low as she goes) seems better but is fucking killing me with sight pix and neck pretzel. I think maybe I need to lay down on the gun and just slide shit around until it ...jells.

VooDoo

 

[FatBoy]

@357Max hit it. You're not too old. Average age of a NRA Highpwer Prone shooter is probably 60. Your rifle set up for bench or field shooting.

Don't get me wrong , after four back surgeries and so many other soft tissue injuries I can't keep track, sometimes getting in to the prone position or settling down is almost impossible. Stretching regularly helps, but it may never feel "right" again.

 

[Steel head]

*BaM!* Kinda what I'm thinking. It's not tool less but I have huge play with cheek riser and length of pull.

View attachment 7349349

I think I might need to start turning screws...is higher or lower better on the bipod? All the way down (as low as she goes) seems better but is fucking killing me with sight pix and neck pretzel. I think maybe I need to lay down on the gun and just slide shit around until it ...jells.

VooDoo

That setup looks way too low.
Raise up the butt pad a bit as well

You just need to find your happy place.
When you find it you have to fight falling asleep.
The struggle is real!

 

[Supersubes]

@357Max hit it. You're not too old. Average age of a NRA Highpwer Prone shooter is probably 60. Your rifle set up for bench or field shooting.

Don't get me wrong , after four back surgeries and so many other soft tissue injuries I can't keep track, sometimes getting in to the prone position or settling down is almost impossible. Stretching regularly helps, but it may never feel "right" again.

Most high power shooters didn’t just start shooting prone at 60 though. It’s gonna a take Vodoun a bit to get the neck flexibility.

 

[FatBoy]

Most high power shooters didn’t just start shooting prone at 60 though. It’s gonna a take Vodoun a bit to get the neck flexibility.

And lower back. Prone bipod he may get away with the scope in that position. If he was to sling up it would have to be 3" further forward.

F class would be more in line with the current setup, but there is no doubt he'll get there. I shoot with guys with multiple neck fusions and they an get a good enough position to shoot high 190s with a 308 Servie Rifle. Just have to put in the time and work at it.

Bob Depp's right arm was totally paralyzed. He shot sling off a table by using a mirror on his hat so he could see his finger. He'd place his finger then get back in the sights and fire by pulling his shoulder straight back. Bob proved to me years ago that you are never too old or too broke to compete.

Not meant to poke, meant to be more inspirational.

 

[357Max]

@Steel head - What Arca clamp is that? Does it clear the super cal?
I have the 419 clamp & it hits the tilt on the S cal, had to add a harris adapter between clamp and cal.

 

[theLBC]

I'm 64+ and Mama watches me practice/dry fire prone and can't figure out how the fuck I can get there or even stand up afterwards. Maybe I'm too old now?
Fuck...that's gonna piss me off.

VooDoo

haha, nice.
i bought a rifle that is pretty heavy so that it isn't really made to run around with.
on purpose.

/i might be old, but i'm slow.

 

[Steel head]

@Steel head - What Arca clamp is that? Does it clear the super cal?
I have the 419 clamp & it hits the tilt on the S cal, had to add a harris adapter between clamp and cal.

RRS BTC pro
It hits but I have more cant than I’ll ever need.

 

[SmartDonkey]

For me (and I know this is not the opinion of most on this site) prone is the most over rated shooting position. I think it is good to know how to shoot from lots of positions and I practice from prone quite a bit... but other than practicing I really don't find myself able to shoot prone in the field. I've only taken a couple of hunting shots that way, where I was on a hill and able to clearly see. I have many more experiences of trying to set up prone only to find the target blocked by one of the millions of sage brush. Even when I practice I have to back my truck up and shoot out of the bed or the one area I cleared all the brush out.

Shooting is supposed to be fun.... and if it hurts you probably aint having much fun. One guy told me "it's stupid to shoot off of a bench because you wont find them in the mountains while hunting." That's true, but I generally don't have time to break the pruners out either. Maybe your area isn't plagued with those miserable little brush, or if you are doing matches.

 

[Diver160651]

FYI, for guys shooting prone needing taller rear bags try the heavy sand fill of the Pint sides Game Changer or the larger Schedium. It is not a eared Edgewood Casey filled with black sand; but a great dual purpose bag that works great in the forend as well. You’ll be surprised in the increased stability.

Benchrest guys know you do not want a tall bean bag as it compresses differently under recoil. We get away with it because we are generally low, with less bag height and not measuring with calipers.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Wanted to add that at my Fudd Rifle Club all shooting at the 200, 300, and 600 yard ranges must be done prone. Hence my desire to master it.

VooDoo

 

[1moaoff]

That looks low for someone not entirely used to getting into the position.

Raise your bipod get a higher rear bag

Play with it

Oh and dont get older

 

[Dthomas3523]

You may also have to set your rifle up a bit differently for prone. First, get used to getting into the prone position and up on your elbows without the gun. That way you aren’t contorting your body to the gun that may or may not be set up properly,

Then move on to getting into the proper prone position and pulling the gun into you *without* the optic on it. If it doesn’t fit you in the proper position you built, adjust the rifle. Once it’s adjusted correctly, mount the optic with the ring height needed to get in in front of your eye properly.

As an example of setup, my prs rig is setup up to fit me shooting off props and barricades. It’s slightly short in the LOP for prone. But 80% of my shooting is positional off props. I can either extend the LOP, or fudge it on a prone stage as it’s a heavy 6mm.

 

[JAS-SH]

I write this as a 66 year old that has been until recently a china virus prisoner at home since March. My worst year ever health wise - period. I've always been healthy and active, but rather stiff, not very flexible. That said, never had problems shooting prone.

Well, I'm getting back to shooting now so I pulled a rifle out of the safe and guess what? When prone I couldn't even make the reticle line up unless I pointed the rifle down into the ground. Devastating feeling. Whoever said that I was going into my golden years was lying to me. It's more like the rust years. And it happens really quick!

So, I'm doing a number of things, starting with some reasonable stretching exercises. But that is going to take time. I played around with some stuff while prone behind the rifle and some things did help.

I know, everyone tells you to line up straight behind the rifle. That's all true, for young people. And it is the more accurate position. But if I can't do that it doesn't help me. Today I found out that I am a lot more comfortable lining up to slightly the left of the rifle AND bringing my right knee forward. This relieves pressure on my belly and chest. But that didn't solve my stiff neck/shoulders problem. So, I closed the tripod and started piling up sofa pillows to hold the front of the rifle. I was able to get a good sight picture, while comfortable with the aforementioned position at around an 11~12 inches of bipod height. Now I need a new bipod and a taller rear bag!

Getting old is a female doggie.

JAS

By the way, I got some of the ideas, not on my own, but by watching this video. It matched what I was feeling in terms of stiffness. Look at the height of the bag and bipod:

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Most of my problems were solved by getting the gun set up higher on it's legs. The rest of the problems were solved by mounting my rail with Red Loctite and new screws (properly sized for length to keep them from bottoming out!) and keeping it from shifting. Aside from prone discomfort, my group sizes at 200 yards had gone from .7 MOA to 3 MOA (and more!) and it took me a while to realize it wasn't me. My scope rail was moving enough to drive me nuts but it was not apparent until I ripped the scope off and found the screws had (again) backed out.

The rest of this Summer has been spectacular and fun/accurate. Glad to see yer out of confinement! Thanks for the video!

VooDoo

 

[Baron23]

I'm 64+ and Mama watches me practice/dry fire prone and can't figure out how the fuck I can get there or even stand up afterwards. Maybe I'm too old now?
Fuck...that's gonna piss me off.

VooDoo

Hell man, I’m about to turn 68 and while watching the Frank vid posted above, I wanted to see if I could take up the kneeling position as he shows it. Basically sitting on his right heel.

My knee told me to go fuck myself and save that shit for my next life. LOL

Once had an ortho doc ask me if I have ever seen a 40 y.o. MLB pitcher. I said “sure”. Then he asked if I have ever seen a 40 y.o. catcher. And he said, that’s right, old knees do not like kneeling so quit doing that!! Haha Now 15 years later kneeling seems to be not even something to contemplate.

But I can flop in my belly just fine.

Really good points here about raising the gun to take some stress off of the neck. Good info and I’ll give it a shot.

 

[Shifty6BR]

Sunday morning funnies..

Interesting approach..

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Someone needs to invest in a bipod.

VooDoo

 

[seanh]

That pick up there... Isn't that how antifa trains?

 

[seanh]

I find the best way to determine supported height is to do it without the bipod. Not a requirement that it helps if you have a friend there with you with a measuring tape.
With your eyes closed the entire time, lay down behind the rifle I'm simply move your support hand forward and backward as necessary and elbows in or out. This is going to raise or lower you and the weapon. Once you find that correct spot, stand up. Repeat the process until you're comfortable position is repeatable...eyes cloed.

I'm sure somebody's asking why eyes closed... when we have our eyes open we're going to mount the rifle to align with what we see. You don't want that. That means you might not be in your true in NPA.

So now that you have your repeatable position that's comfortable, get your friend to measure Barrel or forearm to the ground. Put your by pot on if that exact measurement. Repeat the mounting process again with your eyes closed. If it feels comfortable then open them up... Are you still online with your scope? If so great if not adjust your scope position or cheek piece or buttplate.

So take it for what it's worth ... if you try this and it works great, if it doesn't work well I am the fuktard ring leader.

 

[Precision Underground]

A lot of guys are used to laying on top of the rifle. They set the rifle really low and on target and then basically mount up on it. So shooter is laying on top of the rifle with cheek weld/cheek pressure and the rifle is connected to the bench/ground through the bag, almost like trying to “ride” the rifle. Shooting prone like this you can end up with your neck being used to link your body to the rifle and support a portion of your body weight, typically at an awkward angle.

Get your body connected to the ground(or bench in mod prone)first and then get the rifle connected to you via pulling into a relaxed shoulder. That connects the rifle to the ground/table through you rather than through the bag. That let’s you choose your exact position and then attach the rifle to you, rather than the other way around. It’s Important to learn to position yourself so you can see through the scope easily and be on target with a pull into your shoulder that’s straight down the line of the rifle. If you start square and in line with the rifle it will make it easy to get it right next to your face so you don’t need to bend your neck over to get behind the scope. This makes it easy to pull straight down the line of the rifle as well. Also you need to be high enough to be upright enough to see through the scope without tilting your head over but not so high that you need to be up on elbows.

Picture what it feels like to walk up to a spotting scope or binoculars on a tripod. You are connected to the ground and you position yourself so the eyepiece lands in a comfortable place. Its the same concept but more complicated since you are attaching the rifle to you and not standing upright. But the root problem for most IMO is they are trying to ride on top of the rifle rather than build a base to connect the rifle to. How to build the base is a whole other rabbit hole. Spend time at home finding your position and dryfiring with NO AMMO ANYWHERE NEARBY. You need to make sure you are deliberate and can repeat your position before even chambering a round. Until you can do that you are just wasting ammo and practicing bad habits. Years of dryfiring while testing bags taught me how important and helpful it is at making a solid/repeatable position.