Starter Guidance (308 Platform)

[DocRDS]

So I'm getting to the point where I am starting precision shooting and wanting to get into the .308 semi-auto world.

I've done my homework and know what that my end goal is a LaRure PredatAR (or maybe an OBR).

However, my main concern is that right now I'm not a reloader, and I still like to spend a lot of my time shooting surplus or white-box ammo. I'm definitely the limitation of any system--so my initial thought was to get a "beater" DPMS or AR-10 (or even an M1A) and shoot the snot out of it until I get quite a bit better.

I know DPMS and Armalite are not held as the same standard as other high-end manufacturers (in fact on other boards the mention of DPMS can cause convulsions), but then again, I have trouble dropping the coin on a system whose abilities will be underutilized by myself--and I'm mostly afraid of doing something stupid that will ruin a barrel (shooting bad ammo--improper maintenance). What would be the best course of action--buy a starter rifle or jump whole hog into it?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Starter Guidance (308 Platform)

To answer your question directy, I would look into the DPMS Panther LR308. It's not unpopular, and that says something. Remington's owner also owns DPMS and the Remington R-25 is made by DPMS, if memory serves. Maybe the DPMS is not the ultimately best semiauto 308 rifle, but for a beginner, such differences are not relevent.

(Edited to add: chainring below makes a good point too. It's a matter of choices and finances. If my own experience tells me much about all this, it's that a 'lesser rifle' tends not to be wasted money, especially if it makes getting started easier to afford sooner. It will serve a beginner's needs well enough, and when the time comes to upgrade, as often as not, the owner keeps it. Having a familiar 'goto rifle' to fall back on can be an advantage, and like the 22, the 'lesser rifle' can take some of the shooting load off the ultimate rifle, preserving its usefulness longer.)

Getting started in precision shooting and going directly with a 308 semi may or may not be many shooters' first choice. I respect your intentions.

My own approach would combine yours with a mildly accurized Ruger 10/22. By mildly accurized, I suggest an aftermarket target barrel and stock to match the barrel contour. Save the rest of the customary all-out accuracy mods for when your significantly improved skills demand them. Shoot the snot out of the 10/22. Save the 308 for applications that are beyond basic training/practice.

Why the 10/22? Well, perfecting precision shooting marksmanship skill is going to mandate a lot of shooting. Doing all that shooting with a .308 is simply not cost-effective. The .22 allows such volumes of shooting while allowing a significant cost reduction. It can also be done over shorter distances, which can make practice more convenient as well.

I believe very few individuals are capable of developing precision marksmanship skills on their own. Look around for the help you'll be needing. The Internet has limitations that an eyeball to eyeball training relationship does not suffer. Look for the folks who are smiling at the range, they probably have a better grasp on the overall process.

Greg

 

[@lent]

Re: Starter Guidance (308 Platform)

Get the good rifle the first time. If you want a Larue, order up. Learn how to maintain it, and shoot it. Get the .22 while you wait and you can enjoy practicing....but the cost of a lesser rifle is just a big coupon toward the price of the one you really want. You aren't going to tear it up. Maintenance is easy, as is punching the bore with a patch.

 

[Tx_Flyboy]

Re: Starter Guidance (308 Platform)

Doc,

Those "other websites" (m4carbine is one of the worst) are populated by "operators" who spend more time posting on the internet and bashing lower priced brands than they do shooting or shooting for marksmanship.

This website is the place for unbiased views from people who are actually serious about shooting, marksmanship, reloading etc.

I will come straight out and say that i own a DPMS LR-308, so u may consider me biased owner.

To your question; you should buy what ever 308AR you can afford that leaves you plenty of cash for optics, reloading equipment, ammo stock pile etc...Everyone has a different budget. DPMS rifles can be had from $950 brand new, while the most expensive rifle is the knights EMC at approx $4,500-$8,000.

While one might logically assume that the KAC will be 4.75x-10x more acurate and reliable based on price, but that simply is NOT the case. Both rifles wil give you comparable accuracy, and reliability while the higher priced rifles will have better finish, or some features (ambidexterous mag release, ambi safety) that may or may not be deal breakers for you.

Same observation applies all higher priced rifles be they Larue, LMT, GAP, etc.

I have shot groups with my LR-308 as small as 1/8" (haven't been able to duplicate this), though most groups hover just under 0.5MOA for loads the rifle likes.

Just remember, DPMS sells more rifles in one month than most the other higher prices offerings combined. There will be more "quality issues" with DPMS due to the sheer numbers of rifles they make; its a mathematical certainty.

The other higher priced rifles are not without their "quality issues". There aren't as many of these reported because of the relatively small number of rifles that can sell at these higher prices...All you need to do is perform a google search for issues with any of these manufacturers, and you'll find its usually the same issue/issues ppl report about DPMS firearms...the rifles are made the same way, so they issues will be similar for the most part.

What you will find when you do your own research is that when the issue involves DPMS, Armalite, etc, the idiots you alluded to that reside on most other websites will chime in with "bad quality, go with higher priced brand X".

However, when its the higher priced rifles haveing the exact same issues, the said idiots will say things like "call this person at brand X company, they'll take care of you".

Buy what you want, shoot out the barrel (5000+rds) and upgrade as needed.

Just cause you bought a higher priced rifle doesnt mean that you wont spend money to upgrade it or not experience quality issues.

 

[DocRDS]

Re: Starter Guidance (308 Platform)

Thanks all--interestingly enough I was just at the store pondering a .22 build for similar reasons mentioned above.

One thing I have learned is that training is a much more significant improvement than gear--this was driven home in a pistol class the other nigh--I always blamed my sights being out of alignment (even for small issues). But with me holding the pistol and the instructor squeezing the trigger--bullseye.

So if a lesser rifle gets me into training sooner (and being in Texas I am fortunate to have some very good local trainers within a day's drive) then that's a win. And as mentioned--optics, reloading (almost a must at this point for me), etc.. It' be nice to have unlimited funds, but that isn't happening.

 

[Peepaw]

Re: Starter Guidance (308 Platform)

My .02 is go buy a cheaper unit. Learn it. If you buy a more expensive unit, and hate the AR, then you saved yourself money. Or, put simply, you may find that teh cheap one does all that you need it to, OR, you fall in lvoe with it, and then go buy another rifle, you've got 2 options:
1)Sell it, recover some funds, and put towards new rifle
OR
2)Keep it! You can never have enough sticks!

It's what I did. I stepped into AR platform for 1st time last year. Went Del-Ton, because it was cheap, AND it came unassembled and I wanted to put it together myself. I didnt see the point in spending big money on something I've never owned before. Anyways, I've shot that AR for year now, and I love it and now Im gettin ready to "step up" (Im keeping the Del-Ton though).

I see teh valid point in one of teh above posters who said buy the better rifle right off teh bat. I see his point, I just dont agree with it. Your not wasting money by buying a "lesser" unit. Im not saying go and buy the cheapest piece of shit you can find. No, Im saying go find a nice, lower cost alternative, and get used to it. Something your not gonna worry about scratching it or whatever.


I used this earlier today in another post...if your 16 years old, not used to driving onthe roads, do you go spend a million dollars on a new Bugati, because you can? or, do you go find a nice car, learn the roads, get used to it, THEN go buy that Bugati?

Maybe because Im not a millionaire, and I dont have money to burn, that question is easy to answer.
That's my take. Good luck


EDIT: I too was gonna buy a .308 AR, because I already had a .308 Rifle, and figured save money on ammo. Well, a member talked me into teh .223 for my AR, and Im glad he did!!!! If you sit down with a BA at the range, you can go through 20 rounds on a .308, and say you had a nice day.
You're NOT gonna go through 20 rounds with an AR at the range, and be satisfied! HAHAHAHA!!! When I go, I go to shoot!! I'll go through a 20 round mag in a heart beat!
My point? MONEY!!!!!!! Ammo is not cheap, and .308 is more money plain and simple.

Look at what your goals are, REALISTIC goals, and why you want/need the AR. Again, my .02

 

[Jethro3898]

Re: Starter Guidance (308 Platform)

There is something to be said for the high-end .308 ARs, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a DPMS. I own one, have shot several, and they have all performed well. My personal SASS is very accurate.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have saved up an additional $850 and went the GAP-10 route. I have never shot one, but I also had never shot a DPMS SASS until I shot mine either. My purchase was based solely on research. At the time, I didn't even know there was a GAP-10. The GAP-10 seems to fit in that sweet spot for precision ARs......high-end without being ridiculously high-end.

I'm sure the high-end ARs (GAP-10, OBR, POF, LMT, etc., etc.) can out shoot my SASS in the right hands, but is that extra 1/4 or 3/8 MOA (at best) at 100 yards worth the extra $850 to $1500 price increase? Only you can answer that one. It is your money and you need to be happy with your purchase. Just keep in mind that these high-end guns are a lot like high-end homes. Once you eclipse a certain price point, the pool in which you can draw from if you ever need to sell it diminishes greatly. In other words, it is pretty easy to unload a used AR for $1200 or $1500 versus trying to sell a used one for $3000.


Good luck. You will have a good time with whatever brand you decide to go with.