F T/R Competition Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

J

jason8251

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Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 27, 2010
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Jacksonville FL / OEF
#1
I'm thinking of getting into F T/R shooting and was looking at buying a rifle in a couple weeks when I return to the States. I was thinking a heavy barreled Remington 700 in .308 since it seems like it's the easiest to upgrade in the future. I'd like to stick with a factory rifle to start with (no more than $1K) so I still have money for a quality optic and .308 reloading components.

This will be my first bolt action rifle and I wanted to run it by ya'll before I make the purchase to ensure my thinking wasn't off or if there is something I'm missing.

One more thing, where can I find out about matches in NE Florida, I'd really like to check out a match and talk to some people face to face if at all possible.
 
#2
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

You're on the right track; many of us started with a 700. From the beginning, it's a good solid platform. Mine liked Sierra 168s and 175s with minimal load testing. Spend more money on optics than you think you should, and pick up reloading gear from the classifieds on this site.


1911fan
 
#3
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

I'm thinking the same thing, I have a NF 1-4 on my JP .223 so I'm going to go with a NF on the bolt gun as well. I don't have a problem spending 2G's on glass because I beleive there will will always be a market for them if I had to sell it.
 
#4
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

Recommend the Savage modle 12 F-T/R or Palma. will compete with the best out there with no modification.

JW
 
#5
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhw1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Recommend the Savage modle 12 F-T/R or Palma. will compete with the best out there with no modification.

JW </div></div>

This is the way to go. You can not get a better platform for anywhere near the money.
 
#6
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

I wouldn't do the Palma, you're paying for a bunch of adjustability you just don't need in F class (IMO).

The F-T/R in 308 will get you up and running and it will be a long time before you can blame it on the rifle.

Personally I like the straight bottom stock on the Savage F class better but it doesn't come in a 308, but rebarreling is not hard either if you went that route.
 
#7
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhw1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Recommend the Savage modle 12 F-T/R or Palma. will compete with the best out there with no modification.

JW </div></div>

This is the way to go. You can not get a better platform for anywhere near the money. </div></div>

Yep. Savage FTR in either the 223 or 308 flavor is THE way to go. They frickin shoot.
 
#9
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

Savage, yes. You can check them out right now at the link. But the Target series is pricey and may be better suited to the truly committed competitor.

I used to make a 112BVSS (legacy long action) .308 available for beginners to try at 1000yd F Class. It was perfectly suited to the task.

Nowadays the 12BVSS is available somewhat more affordably than the target series in .223, .308, and .22-250. The .223 may or may not cut it at 1000yd, the .308 definitely will, and the .22-250 is probably better suited to slower shooting cadences, like 'Chuck shooting, than the sustained fire cadences that competition provides. The .22-250's 1:12" rifling twist will not support heavier LR-capable bullets. The .223's 1:9" rifling twist will support 69's and some 75's.

Greg
 
#10
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

If you have an AR the and a good piece of glass the cheapest way to start in F-Class is to buy a STAG 6 upper for around $600. I did it when getting my daughter set up to shoot F-Class T/R at 300 and 600. I get .35 MOA with my daughter's STAG 6 shooting 69 gr Sierra Match King using 24.5 gr. Varget. If you are using factory try Blackhills 69 gr. The best I have found for 600 yd is 77 gr. Sierra Match King.
 
#11
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Amerikos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have an AR the and a good piece of glass the cheapest way to start in F-Class is to buy a STAG 6 upper for around $600. I did it when getting my daughter set up to shoot F-Class T/R at 300 and 600. I get .35 MOA with my daughter's STAG 6 shooting 69 gr Sierra Match King using 24.5 gr. Varget. If you are using factory try Blackhills 69 gr. The best I have found for 600 yd is 77 gr. Sierra Match King. </div></div>

While a good choice for shooting for fun. This is not a good choice for all around F TR Class as this system wont do well past 600 yards. 600-1000 yards will kill this system. Even at 600 yards your asking alot of a 77 grain bullet.
 
#12
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

Mike is absolutely correct; the 77SMK is a very poor performer compared to the 69gr bullet for 300 yards and the 80gr bullets for all ranges up to and including 1000 yards. I consider the 77 SMK the best military bullet for magazine length ammo and it has its place in F-T/R competition, in other people's rifles.

When I shoot my AR in F-T/R competition it's loaded with 80gr JLKs exclusively.

Amerikos, at the next match I can bring some to show you. If I remember.
 
#14
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

I don't disagree with you, because I certainly understand the limitation of the .223 at 600 yards. My 11 year old daughter has not been able to shoot above Sharp Shooter with a STAG 6 at 600 yards, but 92% accuracy is just fine for a $600 investment. She started 6 months ago and she could not handle the recoil of the .308. The automatic action of the AR, plus the heft of the STAG 6 makes recoil a non-issue. This is great for new shooters to focus on sight picture, breathing, trigger squeeze and follow through. The idea of a starter rifle is to get them shooting to see if they really like it. When a person gets bitten by the bug they are going to have want to drop a lot of money in a custom rifle (better than a Savage) and of course reloading gear. I have observed several people start to shoot long range, drop several thousand on a fine rifle and then quite after 2 months. A STAG 6 upper is just fine to test the water with in competition as a starter rifle and then go big.
 
#15
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

Yes, I already have an AR (CTR 02) and I was thinking about just having a long barreled upper made for it but what I'm really wanting to do is have an excuse to buy a bolt action rifle since I have never owned one before. Plus, as silly as it may sound, I wouldn't want to go with another brand of AR upper other than a JP, I have a man-crush on the CTR 02 I have now and it wouldn't be the same and I could buy the Savage for less than a new upper for my rifle. Not trying to be snotty or anything, it's just the truth.

I checked out the Savage site and I really like the F T/R, I guess I just need to fingure out if I like it $300 more than the BVSS when I see them in person.

Now for another can 'o worms. I'm going to go with a NF optic and I was wathching the video's on youtube that anther member reccomended and noticed he was using a MLR/MIL set-up. I've been doing some research and it seems most guys use MOA reticles. I imagine it's personal preference and since your shooting at known distances I cant see it mattering too much. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
#16
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

Denys,

The 80gr. didn't work well with Vika's STAG. The barrel is a 1/8 twist and it appears that 77 is the heaviest I can go. See you at the next 1k. I hope we don't get rained out again.

Regards,

Tom
 
#17
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

Here are a couple of things to consider.

Do you have ranges where you can shoot at 1000 yards near where you are/will be living? The ones I see listed in Florida and Georgia appear to have MR matches only, with maybe one in Georgia have LR matches. I think that needs to be factored in your thinking.

If all you can shoot will be at 600 yards or less to begin with, there is no need to immediatly jump to a rig that will take you to 1000 yards. You could actually go with a long barreled upper and have fun with 80 grains bullet and you can do really well. I did that for a few years and reached HM at Mid-range and SS at long range. When it became apparent that I had reached the limits of the platform for long range, then I built and inexpensive .308 bolt and used that at LR.

You can do a search here, I posted here at length on this very issue. The point is a proper .223 bullet can be very competitive in F-T/R at mid-range and it is VERY pleasant to shoot. And cheaper too.

The good thing about that is it would be inexpensive to start, and then as you learn and form opinions on what you like/dislike, you can then start building your next rifle.

Now, let's talk worms. In have no clue what and MRL/Mil set up is, but regardless, it's not what you want to F-T/R. My MR rifle has a Weaver T36 fixed power scope with a fine crosshair/target dot sight. Simple and efficient. You will be holding on the target, not doping stuff with mildots and BDCs and other such things. What is needed is plenty of power, excellent resolution and good target knobs to go between distance settings. I'm even at the point where I rarely use windage adjustments anymore, I prefer to hold off on the target, unless things get very crazy and I am holding on the neighbor's target.

My new scope is a Nightforce 12-42X56 with a simple NP2DD reticle.
 
#18
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

All you need is a 1:8 twist. I've shot thousands of 80SMKs and JLKs with that twist. The JLK likes to be jammed into the lands and I used to do the same with the SMKs.

Let's talk at the match. I'll try to remember to bring my AR and ammo.
 
#19
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jason8251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now for another can 'o worms. I'm going to go with a NF optic and I was wathching the video's on youtube that anther member reccomended and noticed he was using a MLR/MIL set-up. I've been doing some research and it seems most guys use MOA reticles. I imagine it's personal preference and since your shooting at known distances I cant see it mattering too much. Correct me if I'm wrong. </div></div>

The targets used in F-Class use (basically) MOA-based scoring rings. They don't translate as well into mils.

Also... 1/10 mil clicks are roughly .36 moa per click... as opposed to 1/4 or 1/8 moa clicks which allow finer control when dialing things in. You'll likely end up holding off a bit anyway, even with 1/8 moa clicks... but its pretty much a guaranteed with mil clicks. Can it be done? Yes. Would it be something I recommend for a dedicated F-Class rig - no. For a multi-purpose rig to be used for casual shooting, the occasional practical/tactical field style match, and the occasional F-Class match... sure.
 
#20
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

Denys, thanks for the advice first of all. The reticle I saw the guy using was a Nightforce "MLR" reticle with .1 Mil adjustments, I should have been more clear.

Where did you see a list of matches in my area? I would really like to attend one and snoop around a little when I get back, before I do anything but I cant seem to find a list of upcoming matches anywhere.
 
#22
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

I shot and won a bunch of matches with a NXS 8-32 with MLR Reticle. Its fine enough and then you still have a reticle for field use as well. That scope ran on both F TR and 338 Lapua rifle for a while.

With that said for pure F TR I like a very fine reticle. I dont care if i have 1/8 or .25 moa clicks as once I dial for base wind I hold off anyway.

The 223 is great for shorter rnage reduced trget use. Very accurate. Cheap to shoot and easy on shoulder. Set up right I dont think you give up much to a 308 under 600 yards. I only use 308 for 308 because I only shoot longrange courses of fire.
 
#23
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I only use <span style="font-weight: bold">308 for 308 </span>because I only shoot longrange courses of fire. </div></div>

Yeah, me too. I never use .223 to .308.
laugh.gif
 
#24
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jason8251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Denys, thanks for the advice first of all. The reticle I saw the guy using was a Nightforce "MLR" reticle with .1 Mil adjustments, I should have been more clear.

Where did you see a list of matches in my area? I would really like to attend one and snoop around a little when I get back, before I do anything but I cant seem to find a list of upcoming matches anywhere. </div></div>

At another forum, some enterprising fellow started a thread where he built a spreadsheet using input from folks around the coutnry (and now the world) to list all the places where F-class competitions are taking place.

I do not know what the policy here is about linking to other fora, so I'm not going to do it unless I'm told it's fine to do that.

The Listings for Florida are:
Palm Bay (MR) Port Malabar Rifle club (www.pmrpc.com)
Orlando (MR) Central Florida Rifle clud (www.cfrpc.com)
and in Georgia they are:
Ft. Benning (MR) Chattahoochee Rifle Club
Swainsboro (MR/LR) Cool Acres Sporting Camp (www.coolacressportingcamp.com)

Which reminds me, I need to send the guy the information for some of the other comps around the Houston area; I only provided him with the info for Bayou Rifles.
 
#26
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

If you're looking for an in-expensive entry rifle that has enormous upgade options, a standard Savage Model 12 FV in .223 Remington. They're a 1-9 twist barrel. In the San Antonio area we run 75 gr VLDs in them and they are Smokin Hot! $200 for a Choate Tactical Stock and you're still under your budget. I ran one for over 3K rounds before I upgraded to a Shilen barrel. My old barrel went on an starter rifle for a junior and she's still Smokin folks with it......

Besides, if you can change oil, replace sparks plugs and repair a fan belt on a car you can build a Savage on the tailgate of a pickup truck......
 
#27
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

I think the 12FV is a great varmint rifle, but I like the 12FCV better becauae it uses the Accu-Stock bedding system.

I think the Accu-Stock is a genuine accuracy advance, and the extended bedding instrument resolves any forend bounce issues once and for all.
 
#28
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

In regards to the NF type of reticle, if you are going to shoot F-Class and want to get mostly 10’s and X’s a MOA based reticle is a lot easier to deal with. When people help spot for each other they use MOA as a common point of reference instead of Mil.. In addition, MOA on a NP-R1 or MOAR gives you precise estimation of point of impact to ensure greater accuracy for holding over to adjust for wind.
 
#29
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Amerikos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In regards to the NF type of reticle, if you are going to shoot F-Class and want to get mostly 10’s and X’s a MOA based reticle is a lot easier to deal with. When people help spot for each other they use MOA as a common point of reference instead of Mil.. In addition, MOA on a NP-R1 or MOAR gives you precise estimation of point of impact to ensure greater accuracy for holding over to adjust for wind.
</div></div>

Why wouldn't you use the scoring rings for holdover? They are MOA and you don't need a reticle at all for spotting. I use a Kowa spotting scope.

By the way, I use a 12-42 NSX with the NP2-DD reticle and 1/8th MOA adjustments on my F-T/R rifle.
 
#30
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ryanjay11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Amerikos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In regards to the NF type of reticle, if you are going to shoot F-Class and want to get mostly 10’s and X’s a MOA based reticle is a lot easier to deal with. When people help spot for each other they use MOA as a common point of reference instead of Mil.. In addition, MOA on a NP-R1 or MOAR gives you precise estimation of point of impact to ensure greater accuracy for holding over to adjust for wind.
</div></div>

Why wouldn't you use the scoring rings for holdover? They are MOA and you don't need a reticle at all for spotting. I use a Kowa spotting scope.

By the way, I use a 12-42 NSX with the NP2-DD reticle and 1/8th MOA adjustments on my F-T/R rifle.
</div></div>

^^ This, same reticle in my 8-32, and I use a Leica77 for spotting
 
#31
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ryanjay11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Amerikos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In regards to the NF type of reticle, if you are going to shoot F-Class and want to get mostly 10’s and X’s a MOA based reticle is a lot easier to deal with. When people help spot for each other they use MOA as a common point of reference instead of Mil.. In addition, MOA on a NP-R1 or MOAR gives you precise estimation of point of impact to ensure greater accuracy for holding over to adjust for wind.
</div></div>

Why wouldn't you use the scoring rings for holdover? They are MOA and you don't need a reticle at all for spotting. I use a Kowa spotting scope.

By the way, I use a 12-42 NSX with the NP2-DD reticle and 1/8th MOA adjustments on my F-T/R rifle.
</div></div>

^^ This, same reticle in my 8-32, and I use a Leica77 for spotting </div></div>

^^NP-2DD for me in 12-42x56s as well. I find the gap between the posts and the dot (1.1 MOA @ 42X, 1.4 MOA @ 32X, and so on) to be sufficient for estimation in F-T/R. I have the NP-R1 in an 8-32x56, which I like also. But the simplicity of the reticle and open sight picture of the NP-2DD has helped prevent me from crossfiring on more than one occasion.
 
#33
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

Fot F TR you dont need anything but a fine cross hair, unless you dont have enough windage to dial a base in. In last Worlds at one point I was holding so far off center I used my 1 MOA marks to count out because my 12-42 NXS did not have enough windage for the condotions on high side of Bisley.

Generally you use the target's rings to hold. Lets say you blow a shot into the 9 rings at 9 o'clock. If conditions dont change you just hold 9 ring at 3 o'clock for center hit.

Now dont start chasing spotter because conditions change all the time.

PS I dont like to hold rings out past 8 ring because elevation for me is harder to hold

Hope this helps
 
#34
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There was a guy Killshot that used to shoot f/tr at Sac Valley with a stag AR and won many matches in f/tr . Got beat by him many times. </div></div>

And how long ago that seems now that I'm fighting in F-Open, waiting for these old geniuses to get their driver's licenses taken away from them so I can win again.... Come on, DMV, dammit.

To be fair, the Stag parts just held together all the really important parts. But it did happen, so what the hell. Semi's can win in TR.

And for the plug, you get 250 cases cleaned and annealed - Gratis.
 
#35
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

Am load developing the Stag 6 for FV250, to be my Granddaughter's F-T/R rifle.

Prvi 69gr Match works fairly well, Will be trial firing some Prvi 75gr match, am working a load using 50gr Nos BT's and W748, and will also be trying 69SMK's and 24.5gr of Varget, along with HDY 75gr HPBT Match and 24.0gr of Varget. Somewhere in all that, there's got to be something that stands out or shows room for further development.
 
#36
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

I've been pleased as punch with the STAG 6 that I set up for my daughter. I am impressed to hear of your success. Did you use your STAG at 600 yd? What load did you use? My current for 600 is 77 gr. Sierra MK with 24 gr. Varget.
 
#37
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

In regards to the type of reticle, it is a question of personal preference. It is all good if you have quality glass with the strong enough magnification. The MOA standard seems to work better at known distances than MIL. We all have to hold over, but the more advanced reticles are sure helpful for us lazy types
wink.gif
 
#38
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Amerikos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In regards to the type of reticle, it is a question of personal preference. It is all good if you have quality glass with the strong enough magnification. The MOA standard seems to work better at known distances than MIL. We all have to hold over, but the more advanced reticles are sure helpful for us lazy types
wink.gif
</div></div>

What do you mean hold over? I don't, I dial in the proper elevation and go to town. From 300 to 1000.
 
#40
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

Some folks say the same thing and mean different things.

For me, hold-over refers to elevation, and hold-off refers to windage.
 
#42
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

The 77 SMK will outshoot the 69's anyday. I am a sling shooter, but with the 77's loaded mag lenght, I have cleaned the 300 many times. At 500 and 600 the 80's work better. I have a friend who bad mouths the Sierra's all of the time, and I beat him with them most of the time.
 
#43
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

Well, my experience is different and I was not talking about shooting with a sling and iron sights; this is the F-class forum after all. Years ago, I found the 69 performed better than the 77SMK for me at 300 in no-wind situations. We are talking about targets that have rings one quarter the size of the rings you are used to. However, when the wind was blowing, neither the 69 or 77 could compete with an 80gr bullet, SMK, JLK or any other. So I just dumped all my 69gr, stored my 77s and only used 80s everytime I brought out the .223 for F-class, irrespective of distance.

This was not a knock on Sierra bullets, just reporting what I remembered and why I don't use anything but 80-grainers when shooting .223 in F-class.
 
#44
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

Denys,
Just out of curiosity, what kind of velocity are you getting with the 80s, out of what length barrel? I just initiated a .223 build with GAP for the purpose as an F-T/R trainer rifle and possibly midrange match rifle. Thanks!
 
#45
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

Last time I chronoed the load, I was at about 2850FPS from a 26 inch barrel using Varget, Winchester brass, Remington 7 1/2 and moly-coated 80gr JLKs. From a 30 inch barrel, there is no reason why you should not be close to 2900FPS with ease.
 
#46
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't do the Palma, you're paying for a bunch of adjustability you just don't need in F class (IMO).

</div></div>

I would FOR SURE go with the Palma stock for F Class - the adjustability it offers over the F-TR stock is very useful.
 
#47
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Denys</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last time I chronoed the load, I was at about 2850FPS from a 26 inch barrel using Varget, Winchester brass, Remington 7 1/2 and moly-coated 80gr JLKs. From a 30 inch barrel, there is no reason why you should not be close to 2900FPS with ease. </div></div>

As a trainer and possible midrange-only rifle, I didn't see the need to go with 30" of barrel, so it's going to be 27" barrel (26" from the lugs). I would be perfectly happy with 2850 or so out of this rifle with the 80 gr JLKs. As a possible alternative, have you ever tried the 80 gr Amax? The ballistics should be very similar to the JLK, but the overall length is quite a bit shorter, which might make seating depth less of an issue for this rifle. Anyhow, thanks for the info.
 
#48
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

The A-Max is a great bullet and a phenomenal value for the money. I pushed a lot of 75gr A-Max all the way to 1000 yards,ut when I discovered the JLKs, that was it for me. I don't shoot the .223 much anymore, and I have a LOT of JLKs, so I'll probably never get to try the 80gr A-Max but I would urge you to give them a try. They should work very well for 3-600 yards.
 
#49
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't do the Palma, you're paying for a bunch of adjustability you just don't need in F class (IMO).

</div></div>

I would FOR SURE go with the Palma stock for F Class - the adjustability it offers over the F-TR stock is very useful. </div></div>

Before I decided to build my new F-T/R rifle, I considered the Palma version long and hard. I like the stock that is on it, including the adjustment capabilities. The only think I could not get over was the awful slow twist of the Palma model, 1:13. I just completed my new rifle and it has a stock that is similar to the one on the Palma except that the bottom is even flatter.

I am never going back to a regular stock for an F-T/R rifle; I totally agree with _9H_Cracka on this one.
 
#50
Re: Starter rifle for possible F T/R shooting

Set the Granddaughter and Grandson up for our club's FV250 match last Saturday using the Stag 6 and Prvi-Partizan 75gr match. I only got to shoot a couple fo rounds at the sighter target when I was clearing a first round FTF stoppage, but the rifle seems to be easy to get into and stay inside the 5 ring, but not the V ring.

Yesterday, I pulled down a couple of boxes of the 75gr match, which is loaded with an HPBT that's about 1/16" shorter than the HDY 75gr HPBT match.

Charge weights were very iffy, ranging from 23.1-23.9gr of something that looks an awful lot like W748. Pressure signs also varied from rounded primers to flattened primers and ejector marks. I must admit some surprise that the ammo shot as well as it did despite such charge/pressure descrepancies.

I will be reassembling some with weighed 23.5gr (average of 40) charges of the pulldown powder, and trying them against weighed charges of 23.5gr of W748; as well as the above Varget charges, just to see a performance comparison.

Greg
 
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