I started getting a big interest in long range shooting about 2 years ago. I didn't have the proper equipment and still dont but tried to make what i had work. I have a Browning A-Bolt 300. wsm topped with a vortex viper pst. It is a really nice hunting rifle but not much for long range. My little brother offered me some money for it and im thinking of letting him buy it. I also just got a part time job at a gun store that gives me incredible discounts on guns and scopes. i dnot have the money to go full custom as i am off to school next year but i can slowly build it up to something that will work awesome. I was thinking of getting a 300. win mag in a remington 700 sendero. I can get most guns at great prices. I want a 300 win mag, and i figured the sendero would be a great start and an awesome base for a custom gun. Any suggestions?
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starting over! long range gun
- Thread starter Matt_3479
- Start date
Re: starting over! long range gun
Excellent start, go for it. If you're looking to slowly build, the 700 is a great choice, you really can't go wrong. Most guys prefer the 700 in a short action, but if you're set on the .300 Win Mag, gotta go with the long action. Good luck!
Excellent start, go for it. If you're looking to slowly build, the 700 is a great choice, you really can't go wrong. Most guys prefer the 700 in a short action, but if you're set on the .300 Win Mag, gotta go with the long action. Good luck!
Re: starting over! long range gun
The Sendero would be a great starter. Also you may check into the Savage LE lines FCP HS Precision 300 win mag. It already has an HS stock.
Both will make well capable guns. Handle them all and see what fits your hands best.
The Sendero would be a great starter. Also you may check into the Savage LE lines FCP HS Precision 300 win mag. It already has an HS stock.
Both will make well capable guns. Handle them all and see what fits your hands best.
Re: starting over! long range gun
Are you dead set on getting a 300win mag? A 7mm(284cal) has better performance than a 30cal bullet. At long range it will perform better with everything else being equal.
Are you dead set on getting a 300win mag? A 7mm(284cal) has better performance than a 30cal bullet. At long range it will perform better with everything else being equal.
Re: starting over! long range gun
Please read this before you invest a bunch of money. It's a great article. http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/index_files/30cal_fullVersion.pdf
I just changed my HS Precision Savage into a 7mm. If I had it to do all over with what I know now I just would have bought a Stevens action from Jim Briggs at Northland Shooter Supply and built everything else around it for almost the same cost. Plus, I would have gotten the right aftermarket barrel from the beginning.
I just got rid of my 4-16x50 PST for fixed power IOR Valdada. Huge difference in clarity on 16x. What kind of shooting will you be doing? Is it just going to be for long range or will you also be hunting etc?
Please read this before you invest a bunch of money. It's a great article. http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/index_files/30cal_fullVersion.pdf
I just changed my HS Precision Savage into a 7mm. If I had it to do all over with what I know now I just would have bought a Stevens action from Jim Briggs at Northland Shooter Supply and built everything else around it for almost the same cost. Plus, I would have gotten the right aftermarket barrel from the beginning.
I just got rid of my 4-16x50 PST for fixed power IOR Valdada. Huge difference in clarity on 16x. What kind of shooting will you be doing? Is it just going to be for long range or will you also be hunting etc?
Re: starting over! long range gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matt_3479</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i will be shooting long range as well as hunting! the second i get good enough it will be my main hunting rifle for long range </div></div>At long range a powerful 7mm can retain more energy as well as drift less than a 30cal with less recoil. Just a thought.
Since you will be hunting with it the scope will need to be more versatile. You can't just get a nice fixed power scope like did to save money as that clearly can't work for long range and hunting. Do you have any idea how much you're willing to spend on a scope and what kind of magnification you would prefer?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matt_3479</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i will be shooting long range as well as hunting! the second i get good enough it will be my main hunting rifle for long range </div></div>At long range a powerful 7mm can retain more energy as well as drift less than a 30cal with less recoil. Just a thought.
Since you will be hunting with it the scope will need to be more versatile. You can't just get a nice fixed power scope like did to save money as that clearly can't work for long range and hunting. Do you have any idea how much you're willing to spend on a scope and what kind of magnification you would prefer?
Re: starting over! long range gun
I got my start back in '95 with almost the same story as you. I had owned a couple 300Win rifles and had a Ruger when I made the plunge with the Sendero stainless. I used that gun at Hawks Ridge for a season and had it built. It was in an of itself a great performer with the correct load. Often shooting 1MOA at 1000yd bone stock.
If you have it built there are lots of options for bullets that will make it one hell of a cartridge. A good friend is currently loading the Berger OTM 230gr at an honest 2900fps, and I cannot see how it would be bested by any 7mm, with all due respect to ArmchairElite.
To each his own, but the 300Win is one hell of a cartridge and is one of those cartridges that is easy to get performance and accuracy from handloads with little fuss.
I got my start back in '95 with almost the same story as you. I had owned a couple 300Win rifles and had a Ruger when I made the plunge with the Sendero stainless. I used that gun at Hawks Ridge for a season and had it built. It was in an of itself a great performer with the correct load. Often shooting 1MOA at 1000yd bone stock.
If you have it built there are lots of options for bullets that will make it one hell of a cartridge. A good friend is currently loading the Berger OTM 230gr at an honest 2900fps, and I cannot see how it would be bested by any 7mm, with all due respect to ArmchairElite.
To each his own, but the 300Win is one hell of a cartridge and is one of those cartridges that is easy to get performance and accuracy from handloads with little fuss.
Re: starting over! long range gun
Let me put my vote in for the Rem 700 5R in 300 win. We have sold dozens of these and they all shoot incredible in all calibers they offer, some times I wonder why I build customs. I have likewise chronoed the 230 bergs at 2900+ and they have to do great at any distance a 7 will. With this said I shoot 7WSM and love it. Good luck with your choice.
Let me put my vote in for the Rem 700 5R in 300 win. We have sold dozens of these and they all shoot incredible in all calibers they offer, some times I wonder why I build customs. I have likewise chronoed the 230 bergs at 2900+ and they have to do great at any distance a 7 will. With this said I shoot 7WSM and love it. Good luck with your choice.
Re: starting over! long range gun
If you are willing to shoot a 230 grain bullet at 2900fps then more power to you
. With a 7mm you can get great performance out of a 180 grain bullet, but ultimately it comes down to what you're comfortable shooting. 230 grains is the proper size to use in a 30 cal for maximum efficiency, so if can enjoy shooting that beast then yes, it is quite the awesome round. Will it outperform a 7mm ultra mag with 180 grain Berger hybrids at long range? I really don't know. Both are monsters. Eventually I will be getting 7mm SAUM and that is plenty for me
.
If you are willing to shoot a 230 grain bullet at 2900fps then more power to you
Re: starting over! long range gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are willing to shoot a 230 grain bullet at 2900fps then more power to you
. With a 7mm you can get great performance out of a 180 grain bullet, but ultimately it comes down to what you're comfortable shooting. 230 grains is the proper size to use in a 30 cal for maximum efficiency, so if can enjoy shooting that beast then yes, it is quite the awesome round. Will it outperform a 7mm ultra mag with 180 grain Berger hybrids at long range? I really don't know. Both are monsters. Eventually I will be getting 7mm SAUM and that is plenty for me
. </div></div>
Well I wouldn't attempt the feat of a 230 Berger running full out without an efficient brake...not my shoulder. Apache308's 300 wears an FTE brake and it knocks it down to strong 243 load range. But the concussion coming off that sucker? WOW! Rattles fillings out. I have to go to the dentist every time I shoot with him
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are willing to shoot a 230 grain bullet at 2900fps then more power to you
Well I wouldn't attempt the feat of a 230 Berger running full out without an efficient brake...not my shoulder. Apache308's 300 wears an FTE brake and it knocks it down to strong 243 load range. But the concussion coming off that sucker? WOW! Rattles fillings out. I have to go to the dentist every time I shoot with him
Re: starting over! long range gun
Soultion for 30 cal 230 bergs @ 2900 fps: Thunder Beast Arms 338 BA can. As said before I shoot a 7WSM 180 Bergs @ 2925 and it is all I need. But you have to admit 230 @ 2900 is a wind monster with 338 LM 250 gn like balistics, that you can shoot in most matches. no?
Soultion for 30 cal 230 bergs @ 2900 fps: Thunder Beast Arms 338 BA can. As said before I shoot a 7WSM 180 Bergs @ 2925 and it is all I need. But you have to admit 230 @ 2900 is a wind monster with 338 LM 250 gn like balistics, that you can shoot in most matches. no?
Re: starting over! long range gun
If you can get a good discount on a factory rifle, the .300 WM in 5R is a good choice. Keep your Viper PST, but you'll need a new LA base. You'll probably want to get yourself a Timney trigger as the 1st upgrade and DBM system (e.g., CDI, Surgeon, Seekins, etc.) next. A slip on 1/2" limbsaver recoil pad and the brake will make the recoil very manageable. 208 AMAXs with H1000 is a very reliable combination that many shooters use.
Enjoy!
If you can get a good discount on a factory rifle, the .300 WM in 5R is a good choice. Keep your Viper PST, but you'll need a new LA base. You'll probably want to get yourself a Timney trigger as the 1st upgrade and DBM system (e.g., CDI, Surgeon, Seekins, etc.) next. A slip on 1/2" limbsaver recoil pad and the brake will make the recoil very manageable. 208 AMAXs with H1000 is a very reliable combination that many shooters use.
Enjoy!
Re: starting over! long range gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[/quote]Well I wouldn't attempt the feat of a 230 Berger running full out without an efficient brake...not my shoulder. Apache308's 300 wears an FTE brake and it knocks it down to strong 243 load range. But the concussion coming off that sucker? WOW! Rattles fillings out. I have to go to the dentist every time I shoot with him
</div></div>LOL!..When I wrote that bit about the 7mm being better long range I honestly hadn't even considered that monster. I'm used to seeing people shoot the lighter bullets in the 300Win Mag which never made sense to me with all that power. If a 7mm Rem Mag and a 300 Win Mag are shooting the same weight of bullet the 7mm can do better long range, but their is no equivalent to a 230 grain bullet in 7mm. It's just too big to argue with. I still don't want to be on either end of that rifle shooting those bullets though
.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[/quote]Well I wouldn't attempt the feat of a 230 Berger running full out without an efficient brake...not my shoulder. Apache308's 300 wears an FTE brake and it knocks it down to strong 243 load range. But the concussion coming off that sucker? WOW! Rattles fillings out. I have to go to the dentist every time I shoot with him
Re: starting over! long range gun
Or you could get a remington 700 aac-sd. I have had two of these just to play around with and they are surprisingly accurate. Replace the stock the second you get it with an hs takeoff (remington pss/p) Mine shoots 1/2 moa and can reach out to 1000 yards without a problem. Sure i have to put in 12 mils of elevation but it does not beat me up and it is cheap to shoot. A 300 win mag is better for the wind and carries more energy but quite expensive and more difficult to load accurately. Just my 2 cents. You could stay in F/Tr as well if you shoot competitively
Or you could get a remington 700 aac-sd. I have had two of these just to play around with and they are surprisingly accurate. Replace the stock the second you get it with an hs takeoff (remington pss/p) Mine shoots 1/2 moa and can reach out to 1000 yards without a problem. Sure i have to put in 12 mils of elevation but it does not beat me up and it is cheap to shoot. A 300 win mag is better for the wind and carries more energy but quite expensive and more difficult to load accurately. Just my 2 cents. You could stay in F/Tr as well if you shoot competitively
Re: starting over! long range gun
That sure sounds impressive huh? Since I don't own one I have to assume that it's possible though if that's what people are saying.
That sure sounds impressive huh? Since I don't own one I have to assume that it's possible though if that's what people are saying.
Re: starting over! long range gun
.300WM works, but can also be a bit excessive on either end, especially with significant repetition.
Back around 1903, Uncle Same decided that what became the .30-'06 provided about the peak performace that the human chassis could sustain on an indefinitely repeated basis. I think that time has proved Our Dear Uncle pretty wise. I would consider that chambering has a reasonable upper performance/recoil limit.
LR likes a longer barrel, to eke out a chambering's full distance potential, and (usually) accuracy. Suistained fire likes a heavier barrel, to serve as a heat sink and preserve accuracy over a longer sequence of shots. Just understand that the longer it takes to heat up, the longer it also takes to cool down.
I find that the .30-'06's case capcity is also shared with the .280 Rem (which uses a .284"/7mm diameter bullet), whose projectile's reduced frontal area will allow better velocity retention for equal bullet weights. Some handloading work has taught me that it's relatively easy to find good accuracy with it, and that supersonic performance at extended distances can be achieved with less bullet weight and correspondingly lighter recoil. As a hunting cartridge, it combines a definitely flatter trajectory with good terminal performance, and has a more tolerable recoil level than either the .300WM or .30-'06.
The .280 does not share as great availability in either rifles or ammo as it's near-identical cousin, the .270 Win. But the .270 is considered more of a hunting chambering than a target chambering, and the types of ammo most available refect this.
Greg
.300WM works, but can also be a bit excessive on either end, especially with significant repetition.
Back around 1903, Uncle Same decided that what became the .30-'06 provided about the peak performace that the human chassis could sustain on an indefinitely repeated basis. I think that time has proved Our Dear Uncle pretty wise. I would consider that chambering has a reasonable upper performance/recoil limit.
LR likes a longer barrel, to eke out a chambering's full distance potential, and (usually) accuracy. Suistained fire likes a heavier barrel, to serve as a heat sink and preserve accuracy over a longer sequence of shots. Just understand that the longer it takes to heat up, the longer it also takes to cool down.
I find that the .30-'06's case capcity is also shared with the .280 Rem (which uses a .284"/7mm diameter bullet), whose projectile's reduced frontal area will allow better velocity retention for equal bullet weights. Some handloading work has taught me that it's relatively easy to find good accuracy with it, and that supersonic performance at extended distances can be achieved with less bullet weight and correspondingly lighter recoil. As a hunting cartridge, it combines a definitely flatter trajectory with good terminal performance, and has a more tolerable recoil level than either the .300WM or .30-'06.
The .280 does not share as great availability in either rifles or ammo as it's near-identical cousin, the .270 Win. But the .270 is considered more of a hunting chambering than a target chambering, and the types of ammo most available refect this.
Greg
Re: starting over! long range gun
I have a hard time finding remington 5r 300 win mags, since I'm dealing straight from the
Manufacturer, I will see if I can get one. What's the difference between the sendero vs the 5r.
As for upgrades, the first thing I was going to do was get a timney trigger. And as for scope I think I might just go for it and get a night force. But I'm not too sure. Any suggestions. I figured move my vortex over to another gun and if I
Goin to be taking Long shots, especially on game then might as well do them justice and get a good scope to practice with and have good glass to make the shot
I have a hard time finding remington 5r 300 win mags, since I'm dealing straight from the
Manufacturer, I will see if I can get one. What's the difference between the sendero vs the 5r.
As for upgrades, the first thing I was going to do was get a timney trigger. And as for scope I think I might just go for it and get a night force. But I'm not too sure. Any suggestions. I figured move my vortex over to another gun and if I
Goin to be taking Long shots, especially on game then might as well do them justice and get a good scope to practice with and have good glass to make the shot
Re: starting over! long range gun
anymore then 20 power at 1000y is kind of useless...unless you have a spotter. Hard to go wrong with the NF 5.5-22x, but the NF 8-32 is the cheapest NF scope you can get. That and a 30moa will do 1000y easy.
i'd get a savage over the rem , it's cheaper. And since your not rich , i doubt you'd like the idea of paying 200 + dollars for someone to put a barrel on for you.
anymore then 20 power at 1000y is kind of useless...unless you have a spotter. Hard to go wrong with the NF 5.5-22x, but the NF 8-32 is the cheapest NF scope you can get. That and a 30moa will do 1000y easy.
i'd get a savage over the rem , it's cheaper. And since your not rich , i doubt you'd like the idea of paying 200 + dollars for someone to put a barrel on for you.
Re: starting over! long range gun
All in all do your research on the rifles what you get stock and how easy they are to upgrade and work with and get the best bang for your buck.
When it comes to caliber....i tend to find i am not happy unless i get what i want. When i listen to other people and go the other route i always wonder what if?
So in short, do your research and listen to what people have to say about rifles more than what they have to say about calibers, everyone tends to be a little bias myself included
My 2cents on 300wm and the 230's, I shoot the 230's out of my 300RUM, i am loading them a little hot with H1K (91.5gr) in my rifle and am getting right around 2990fps 26" barrel, 2900fps out of a standard 300wm, like someone else said i would be skeptical unless barrel is 30"
But you mentioned you want it as a hunting rifle, what kind of hunting? if you plan on hiking/stalking with it, weight is an obvious issue and since i would like a stalking rifle or anything i have to carry into the woods to be light which then recoil can also be an issue. But that being said in the field you rarely shoot from a solid position and you are not shooting 20 shots like at the range and i think most people can brush off 1 or 2 solid punches from a high recoil gun especially if you are not prone. And if the gun does kick that hard, at the range you can always add some cushion to ease the punch so IMO recoil is of little concern unless doing competition
My 300rum has a brake and it weights damn near 20lbs, recoil with the 230's is non issue, it is actually one of the most pleasurable rifles i have ever shot, but i have no plans of ever....ever carrying this thing into the woods. Any hunting with this,and it is driven to the spot on a quad
All in all do your research on the rifles what you get stock and how easy they are to upgrade and work with and get the best bang for your buck.
When it comes to caliber....i tend to find i am not happy unless i get what i want. When i listen to other people and go the other route i always wonder what if?
So in short, do your research and listen to what people have to say about rifles more than what they have to say about calibers, everyone tends to be a little bias myself included
My 2cents on 300wm and the 230's, I shoot the 230's out of my 300RUM, i am loading them a little hot with H1K (91.5gr) in my rifle and am getting right around 2990fps 26" barrel, 2900fps out of a standard 300wm, like someone else said i would be skeptical unless barrel is 30"
But you mentioned you want it as a hunting rifle, what kind of hunting? if you plan on hiking/stalking with it, weight is an obvious issue and since i would like a stalking rifle or anything i have to carry into the woods to be light which then recoil can also be an issue. But that being said in the field you rarely shoot from a solid position and you are not shooting 20 shots like at the range and i think most people can brush off 1 or 2 solid punches from a high recoil gun especially if you are not prone. And if the gun does kick that hard, at the range you can always add some cushion to ease the punch so IMO recoil is of little concern unless doing competition
My 300rum has a brake and it weights damn near 20lbs, recoil with the 230's is non issue, it is actually one of the most pleasurable rifles i have ever shot, but i have no plans of ever....ever carrying this thing into the woods. Any hunting with this,and it is driven to the spot on a quad
Re: starting over! long range gun
I already have a perfect carry around rifle so anytime long hauls will be done i most likely will not be carrying along this rifle unless the long haul will be shot across a canyon. The place where i moose hunt has a lot of areas for both long range shots and close range and is the main reason i want this rifle. When driving the road shots are extremely close, and when driving the first half of the river shots are between 100-350 yards. But some of the main lakes where moose are seen, and the second half of the river where our other cabin is shots can be any where out too 800 yards! In the clear cuts we hunt, and back roads near the clear cuts shots start to stretch out and most shooting opportunities are around 250-650, 700 yards.
I already have a perfect carry around rifle so anytime long hauls will be done i most likely will not be carrying along this rifle unless the long haul will be shot across a canyon. The place where i moose hunt has a lot of areas for both long range shots and close range and is the main reason i want this rifle. When driving the road shots are extremely close, and when driving the first half of the river shots are between 100-350 yards. But some of the main lakes where moose are seen, and the second half of the river where our other cabin is shots can be any where out too 800 yards! In the clear cuts we hunt, and back roads near the clear cuts shots start to stretch out and most shooting opportunities are around 250-650, 700 yards.
Re: starting over! long range gun
Hey ya'll can skeptisize all you like. I have seen the dope numbers from his 26 inch barrel Krieger HV taper,1-10 twist barrel. Math doesn't lie, these are not chrono numbers they are actual observed bullet flight numbers. I really don't give a shit if you believe me or not. And yes he has some aquaintances thhat are telling him they cannot achieve those numbers with their RUMs. To that I say , Sorry bout your luck. Maybe you didn't get lucky on a barrel.
The biggest reason I believe him, besides actually seeing it, is the fact that my 30-06 barrel came off the same production run as his. They are identical HV taper 1-10 twist Kriegers, and they are both blistering fast and are very slow to show pressure. The loads are way back from where we saw pressure.
Believe whatever helps you to sleep at night. You are not likely to ever see these numbers in a factory gun and if you do you can bet you are WAY over safe loads.
Every gun and barrel are different. Some people, with far more money than me, will buy 10 barrels at a time looking specifically for a barrel like the two I am telling you about. They do exist and some people know they exist, others deny their existence because they have never had one. Sorry bout your luck.
Hey ya'll can skeptisize all you like. I have seen the dope numbers from his 26 inch barrel Krieger HV taper,1-10 twist barrel. Math doesn't lie, these are not chrono numbers they are actual observed bullet flight numbers. I really don't give a shit if you believe me or not. And yes he has some aquaintances thhat are telling him they cannot achieve those numbers with their RUMs. To that I say , Sorry bout your luck. Maybe you didn't get lucky on a barrel.
The biggest reason I believe him, besides actually seeing it, is the fact that my 30-06 barrel came off the same production run as his. They are identical HV taper 1-10 twist Kriegers, and they are both blistering fast and are very slow to show pressure. The loads are way back from where we saw pressure.
Believe whatever helps you to sleep at night. You are not likely to ever see these numbers in a factory gun and if you do you can bet you are WAY over safe loads.
Every gun and barrel are different. Some people, with far more money than me, will buy 10 barrels at a time looking specifically for a barrel like the two I am telling you about. They do exist and some people know they exist, others deny their existence because they have never had one. Sorry bout your luck.
Re: starting over! long range gun
I'm not in a position to know what's really possible with a 300WM as I've never owned one. I always looked at the 30cal as not an efficient bullet, but with the new Berger bullets I'm starting to reconsider that opinion. I find myself very impressed with these numbers. I've never owned a 300Win Mag or a 300RUM so this is all very interesting to me.
armorpl8chikn: Is your friend really pushing his rifle to do that or is it capable of those speeds within recommended pressures?
SubXero: How much does it cost for a setup like yours? Does it cost a bunch more to shoot than a 300WM?
I've never used a muzzle break before and I'm starting to realize that it has a greater effect on recoil than I gave it credit for.
I'm not in a position to know what's really possible with a 300WM as I've never owned one. I always looked at the 30cal as not an efficient bullet, but with the new Berger bullets I'm starting to reconsider that opinion. I find myself very impressed with these numbers. I've never owned a 300Win Mag or a 300RUM so this is all very interesting to me.
armorpl8chikn: Is your friend really pushing his rifle to do that or is it capable of those speeds within recommended pressures?
SubXero: How much does it cost for a setup like yours? Does it cost a bunch more to shoot than a 300WM?
I've never used a muzzle break before and I'm starting to realize that it has a greater effect on recoil than I gave it credit for.
Re: starting over! long range gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not in a position to know what's really possible with a 300WM as I've never owned one. I always looked at the 30cal as not an efficient bullet, but with the new Berger bullets I'm starting to reconsider that opinion. I find myself very impressed with these numbers. I've never owned a 300Win Mag or a 300RUM so this is all very interesting to me.
armorpl8chikn: Is your friend really pushing his rifle to do that or is it capable of those speeds within recommended pressures?
SubXero: How much does it cost for a setup like yours? Does it cost a bunch more to shoot than a 300WM?
I've never used a muzzle break before and I'm starting to realize that it has a greater effect on recoil than I gave it credit for. </div></div>
Rem sells a sendero in 300 rum they don't sell a 300 rum 5r though, so that is something to consider
If you are reloading a 300 rum costs slightly more to reload for because more powder, you will get slightly more performance for a lot more powder and a lot more recoil. (again muzzle break and weight can help with this)
faster barrel wear with 300rum (you want performance, it comes at a cost)
300 rum is not a belted case if that matters to you
So in short 300rum costs just about the same, but you will most likely find more info on 300wm and more users on the net ect... so help with reloads and what not is pretty easy to find. both are 30 cal so bullet selection is the same, the 300rum will just push them a little faster especially the big 210's and up and like some one pointed out, the berger 230's are about a perfect fit for a 30 cal
and again with what i kind of said, get the caliber you want not what other people suggest. All cals and cartridges have pro's and cons but most popular cartridges are decent enough to have stuck around and found a niche. I wanted a 300 rum and wasn't happy till i got one and love it.
but if you don't know what you want there is also the 338 edge to look into, .300 rum necked up to 338, some people on this board have them and say good things
good luck all mentioned are great calibers and cartridges 7mm 300wm ect...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not in a position to know what's really possible with a 300WM as I've never owned one. I always looked at the 30cal as not an efficient bullet, but with the new Berger bullets I'm starting to reconsider that opinion. I find myself very impressed with these numbers. I've never owned a 300Win Mag or a 300RUM so this is all very interesting to me.
armorpl8chikn: Is your friend really pushing his rifle to do that or is it capable of those speeds within recommended pressures?
SubXero: How much does it cost for a setup like yours? Does it cost a bunch more to shoot than a 300WM?
I've never used a muzzle break before and I'm starting to realize that it has a greater effect on recoil than I gave it credit for. </div></div>
Rem sells a sendero in 300 rum they don't sell a 300 rum 5r though, so that is something to consider
If you are reloading a 300 rum costs slightly more to reload for because more powder, you will get slightly more performance for a lot more powder and a lot more recoil. (again muzzle break and weight can help with this)
faster barrel wear with 300rum (you want performance, it comes at a cost)
300 rum is not a belted case if that matters to you
So in short 300rum costs just about the same, but you will most likely find more info on 300wm and more users on the net ect... so help with reloads and what not is pretty easy to find. both are 30 cal so bullet selection is the same, the 300rum will just push them a little faster especially the big 210's and up and like some one pointed out, the berger 230's are about a perfect fit for a 30 cal
and again with what i kind of said, get the caliber you want not what other people suggest. All cals and cartridges have pro's and cons but most popular cartridges are decent enough to have stuck around and found a niche. I wanted a 300 rum and wasn't happy till i got one and love it.
but if you don't know what you want there is also the 338 edge to look into, .300 rum necked up to 338, some people on this board have them and say good things
good luck all mentioned are great calibers and cartridges 7mm 300wm ect...
Re: starting over! long range gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matt_3479</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I already have a perfect carry around rifle so anytime long hauls will be done i most likely will not be carrying along this rifle unless the long haul will be shot across a canyon. The place where i moose hunt has a lot of areas for both long range shots and close range and is the main reason i want this rifle. When driving the road shots are extremely close, and when driving the first half of the river shots are between 100-350 yards. But some of the main lakes where moose are seen, and the second half of the river where our other cabin is shots can be any where out too 800 yards! In the clear cuts we hunt, and back roads near the clear cuts shots start to stretch out and most shooting opportunities are around 250-650, 700 yards. </div></div>Those sound like really long shots on an animal. Will you be killing them outright at that distance? I'm not pointing fingers here. I'm not a hunter so I actually don't know what distance is considered reasonable to be fair to the animal. Maybe someone can enlighten me on this.
If you want great glass but can't afford the top tear scopes like Schmidt & Bender or Premier give IOR a look. They still aren't cheap, but they are much less. Best place to get one is Scott at Liberty Optics as he will go to bat for you if their is a problem. He has a sale going on right now. http://www.libertyoptics.com/ There is no comparison with an IOR and your PST. I know because I recently had them both. If the IORs are out of your price range I know that the Sightrons are very good glass for the money. I've never had a NightForce scope, but my understanding is that they are a super reliable and rugged scope, but the glass is not on par with an IOR.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matt_3479</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I already have a perfect carry around rifle so anytime long hauls will be done i most likely will not be carrying along this rifle unless the long haul will be shot across a canyon. The place where i moose hunt has a lot of areas for both long range shots and close range and is the main reason i want this rifle. When driving the road shots are extremely close, and when driving the first half of the river shots are between 100-350 yards. But some of the main lakes where moose are seen, and the second half of the river where our other cabin is shots can be any where out too 800 yards! In the clear cuts we hunt, and back roads near the clear cuts shots start to stretch out and most shooting opportunities are around 250-650, 700 yards. </div></div>Those sound like really long shots on an animal. Will you be killing them outright at that distance? I'm not pointing fingers here. I'm not a hunter so I actually don't know what distance is considered reasonable to be fair to the animal. Maybe someone can enlighten me on this.
If you want great glass but can't afford the top tear scopes like Schmidt & Bender or Premier give IOR a look. They still aren't cheap, but they are much less. Best place to get one is Scott at Liberty Optics as he will go to bat for you if their is a problem. He has a sale going on right now. http://www.libertyoptics.com/ There is no comparison with an IOR and your PST. I know because I recently had them both. If the IORs are out of your price range I know that the Sightrons are very good glass for the money. I've never had a NightForce scope, but my understanding is that they are a super reliable and rugged scope, but the glass is not on par with an IOR.
Re: starting over! long range gun
OK, thanks for the info. I had a 308 before and didn't like it because it can't shoot a proper size bullet in 30cal. I went with a 7mm because it just stomps all over a 308. However, if someone has the horsepower to push a 230 grain bullet at 2900+fps that changes everything. I'm in no position to do anything right now as I'm just starting to break in my 7mm08 Criterion barrel, but when I decide to move up to a more powerful round I'm going to give the 300WM & 300RUM more consideration instead of just jumping into a more powerful 7mm as I had intended.
OK, thanks for the info. I had a 308 before and didn't like it because it can't shoot a proper size bullet in 30cal. I went with a 7mm because it just stomps all over a 308. However, if someone has the horsepower to push a 230 grain bullet at 2900+fps that changes everything. I'm in no position to do anything right now as I'm just starting to break in my 7mm08 Criterion barrel, but when I decide to move up to a more powerful round I'm going to give the 300WM & 300RUM more consideration instead of just jumping into a more powerful 7mm as I had intended.
Re: starting over! long range gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SubXerO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^ no reason to get your panties in a bundle
people are aloud to be skeptical when they see something out of the norm
no one called you a liar
that being said ill believe it when i see it
</div></div>
LMAO! Well said.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SubXerO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^ no reason to get your panties in a bundle
people are aloud to be skeptical when they see something out of the norm
no one called you a liar
that being said ill believe it when i see it
LMAO! Well said.
Re: starting over! long range gun
Armchair his handload for the 230 is well below where he showed any pressure signs. He did find pressure signs but this load is well backed off from that.
Again I do believe it is a superb example of a barrel and is certainly not the norm.
When he reached any pressure signs he was seeing above 3000fps and obviously beyond what any sane person would think was attainable.
Armchair his handload for the 230 is well below where he showed any pressure signs. He did find pressure signs but this load is well backed off from that.
Again I do believe it is a superb example of a barrel and is certainly not the norm.
When he reached any pressure signs he was seeing above 3000fps and obviously beyond what any sane person would think was attainable.
Re: starting over! long range gun
So you feel that this barrel is exceptional even for a Krieger? If I bought another Krieger would it still be unlikely for it to perform this well?
So you feel that this barrel is exceptional even for a Krieger? If I bought another Krieger would it still be unlikely for it to perform this well?
