Rifle Scopes Steiner Military/Tactical Scope is there a difference between them ??

[peterh]

Hello Guy's, I'm trying to decide and end my search for a new scope for my Sako TRG22. I was all set to order a NF F1 then I received an advertisement from Natchez Shooting Supply. They have the Steiner scopes on sale and the price's are pretty good. They have the Tactical 4-16X50 for $1895, the best price I've seen on the NF F1 is around $2150. No Doubt theres a nice savings there. Iv'e read where some guy's are claiming that Steiner's glass is somewhat better than the glass in the NF, some attribute that to the fact that Steiner's are made with german glass and the NF uses Japanese glass, who knows!!

My question for the guy's in the know is, are there any differences between the Steiner Military and Tactical? I went to the Steiner web page and there is shown a 3-15X50 Military, there is also the 4-16X50 Tactical I mentioned above and on sale at NSS. To me they look to be the same in the pictures but obviously there must be a difference and not just on the power range because the Military''s are priced higher then the Tactical. I hope this makes since and someone can clarify this for me......Thanks to all........

 

[Laseredge]

The 5X ones 3-15, 5-25 are made in Germany, the 4X ones 3-12, 4-16 are made in the US with German glass. I have a 4-16, it is really nice in every way, except it is kind of big (16+" long).
The US made ones are a steal right now. Sub $2K scope with German glass, FFP, Illumination, Zero Stop, flip ups, sunshade etc.

 

[hk dave]

What LCJones said.

Steiner Military and Steiner Tactical are the same thing from what I gather.

I own an F1 with MLR2 and a Steiner 4-16 with mil dot 2.

The glass on the Steiner is def better of the two. The Nightforce feels like it could handle more abuse but marginally.

The only downside I can find to the Steiner is that it's BIG... and only has 1 available reticle... which works just fine.

 

[Quickdraw40]

They are all mil-spec.

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[Quickdraw40]

All the same, no difference. I believe they are all marked Military, never seen one marked Tactical.

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[Laseredge]

The 3-15, 5-25 now have either a G2 Mildot, or an MSR reticle. I don't know if the 3-12, 4-16 have the MSR available yet.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Only G2 on the 4Xs right now. I shot a 4-16 for three years. Never needed more.

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[peterh]

All the same, no difference. I believe they are all marked Military, never seen one marked Tactical.

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All the same except some are all made in Germany and others made here in the U.S. with German glass???? The scopes made in Germany are more money, Is that correct??

 

[honza]

scopes made in Germany 3-15x50 compared to USA made 4-16x50 seem slightly smaller but more importantly they have 6.5 mils more in elevation and 1.5 mil in windage travel.
I have the 4-16x50 and couldn`t be happier.
Coincidentally, they also run a promo on the steiner-scopes.com site, check it out for really nice deals.

 

[XOR]

I have a Steiner 4-16 and NightForce F1. The glass on the Steiner is definitely better. Build quality feels very similar. The external illumination adjustment on the Steiner is nice. The length of the Steiner optically is an advantage over shorter scopes which means it likely will have better resolution over other more compact/more magnification scopes (need to test to verify this, just going on my eyeball testing right now).

My F1 has the MLR 2.0 reticle which is nice for ranging and holdovers. The G2 Mildot on the Steiner is easier to see on busy backgrounds and also fast for holdovers/wind holds. It's all personal preference.

Durability I don't have enough data on the Steiner yet. The Steiner feels solid though. The F1 is a tough scope and I have used it in a lot of conditions and it always works. The Steiner Zero Stops are much easier to set than the NF as you don't need to remove turrets and loosen any clutches. You just loosen up two set screws, turn the knob to the new desired elevation placement, and re-tighten. It's simple and fast. I also like how the Steiner limits your windage to about 6 mils Left and Right. You can't get the wind turret "lost" on multiple turns as you can on the NightForce and other similar scopes. When it stops, that's it and you know you can turn it back to zero and be fine.

I have a scope with the MSR reticle. It's fine as well, but the extra ranging features are rarely used. I also don't really like the floating crosshair center of the MSR reticle. I'd rather it be a continuous line which again is easier for wind holds in the 0.5-1.0 mil range. I also prefer the full reticle illumination of the G2 Mildot vs the center cross hair only illumination of the MSR. In dusk conditions the full illumination is easier to see and of course do holds vs. no illumination.

 

[K_4c]

The 3-15 model also has what I believe they call a "duel scale" second rev indicator (the 4-16 model does not)... I have the 5-25 model with it and it is truly neat feature.... Great glass for sure. The resolution/parallax seems to be spot on with the indicated ranges (I verified using my Leica 1600b). reticle is a little fat at 25x but usable at 5x (hence the trade off).

I'm saving up for another 5-25 as we speak.

 

[peterh]

What I forgot to ask and nobody has stated to the size of the tube in these steiner scopes, are they 30mm or 34mm, thank god I have not bought any rings yet!!!!

 

[Laseredge]

Looks like 3-12 and below are 30mm, and 3-15, 4-16, 5-25 are 34mm.

 

[Quickdraw40]

only the 1-4/5 is 30mm

 

[Steiner Optics]

They are all 34mm with the exception of the 1x-4x and the 1x-5x. Everything is built on German glass regardless of manufacturing location. The second rotation indicator on the 5x German scopes is called a Duo-Scale system. I hope that answers your questions.

 

[Laseredge]

only the 1-4/5 is 30mm

Yes, you are right.
There is a misprint on the Steiner direct site

 

[Quickdraw40]

Yes, you are right.
There is a misprint on the Steiner direct site

;-) I'm holding both in my hands....

 

[Flyingbullseye]

Great scopes and even better price. Can't say much more than what has already been said. New and more reticle options is probably the only draw back to a steiner but I believe and or hope they are adding some more in the coming year.

The Duo-Scale system would go great in the 4X scopes as well, hope they add that to them next year. The knob just feels tougher in a way though I have no idea if it really is but regardless it is a better system than the current pop up indicator on the US built models.

 

[XOR]

The 4-16 has a button the pops out on the bottom of the elevation dial to indicate second revolution has been reached (it is tactile so you can reach up and feel it without needing to look). There are 10mils per rev so on a .308 you'll only hit it if you are near 1000 yards in most cases. All things considered, I'd rather scopes have less doo-dads on them to allow water and debris to enter. Every new knob, button, lever, and moving bit is just one more place for problems to start.

I'm not an optics specialist, but do a bit with astronomy. The thing with longer scopes is that they are less sensitive to collimation and lens errors in the optics path. Shorter scopes need to have much tighter tolerances to achieve similar results. In optics terms this is the f/ratio. Basically it's focal length divided by aperture. A larger number is a higher f/ratio.

So looking at the 4-16x50 scope:

Objective size: 50mm
Length: 409mm
f/ratio = f/8.8

And for the 3-15x50:

Objective size: 50mm
Length: 360mm
f/ratio = f/7.2

So looking at the above, I would say that the 4-16 is more likely to provide a sharper image over the shorter f/ratio of the 3-15. Again this is because small errors in the optics have less effect on the higher f/ratio scopes. These errors can be fixed with more elaborate lenses, etc. But that adds lenses to the optics path which can reduce light transmission. With that said, I don't know how many lenses these scopes have. I'm just pointing out the above why long scopes are more likely to have better image quality over the new wave of compact scopes coming out.

More reading about f/ratios is here. There are trade-offs with everything…

long vs short f/ratios

 

[hk dave]

I think if Steiner continues to keep their scopes at their current price point and get some more reticles, they'll start taking up lots of marketshare.

I am extremely pleased with mine. The thing that stands out the most on my 4-16 is how easy it is to set the parallax. I don't know if it has something to do with the length of the thing but it's really easy to get the parallax out.

I found XORs comments interesting. I do think my 4-16 glass is outstanding. The sharpness, clarity, color everything about it is amazing. I do see slight fringing but it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

 

[RJN]

I think if Steiner continues to keep their scopes at their current price point and get some more reticles, they'll start taking up lots of marketshare.

I am extremely pleased with mine. The thing that stands out the most on my 4-16 is how easy it is to set the parallax. I don't know if it has something to do with the length of the thing but it's really easy to get the parallax out.

I found XORs comments interesting. I do think my 4-16 glass is outstanding. The sharpness, clarity, color everything about it is amazing. I do see slight fringing but it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

OP, I think your questions have been answered so I'm going to continue the "I Love My Steiner" thread:
Had my 4-16 for two weeks and two matches now and HK Dave makes all the same observations that I have. The parallax/focus is right on the numbers so much so you can dial in the range before the stage and it is parallax free w/ perfect focus w/ no need to fine tune once you get behind the scope. I'm very happy with the turrets, large and defined. Clicks are not mushy at all. All the good stuff I've seen on this site about the Steiners is real IMO. Only downside, but as Dave said no real-world drawback, is the yellow fringing on the outer edge and it is only noticeable if I look for it.

 

[peterh]

Well it sounds like the Steiner is the way to go, I was looking for the best glass/features possible in a price range that makes since. Thanks to all that contributed to this topic, your opinions and suggestions are very appreciated. SH rocks..........

 

[Cobracutter]

How is the warranty on the Stieners? Anyone have experince sending them back yet?

 

[Flyingbullseye]

How is the warranty on the Stieners? Anyone have experince sending them back yet?

Warrenty is for the life of the scope and transferable. CS is top notch and quick, had to use it twice. The first time the 4-16 went in since the eye housing wasn't glued on as far as I could tell at all. From the time I mailed it out to the time it was back was 7 days. Solid as a rock (think bomb proof) after that. Sold it for a 25X steiner. The first one had to go back as since it seems some German thought it would be funny to weld my windage knob down. Received a replacement in less than 2 weeks which I think is one of the new more tactical click 25X's. Replacement has been perfect.

Well it sounds like the Steiner is the way to go, I was looking for the best glass/features possible in a price range that makes since.

They are. Build wise they will run with any of the big boys and the glass is on par with schmidt/premeir/USO ect. I am still impressed with the clarity and how vivid the colors are. Never saw any yellow fringing in either my previous 16 or current 25X.
Currently the best price to find one is here:
Military models:Steiner Military Riflescopes
Tactical models:Steiner MilitaryTactical Riflescopes

I'm looking for another scope and even though I am looking at other companies offerings I keep coming back to looking at purchasing another 4-16. Kind of waiting for shot show and hoping they update the 4-16 to the features the 5X scopes have ie. duo scale knob and more reticles.

 

[RJN]

How is the warranty on the Stieners? Anyone have experince sending them back yet?

SH member 'Steiner Optics' can answer that for you. PM him or he may come back in and describe Steiners CS. I've had very positive dealings w/ the US Products Manager and I am very confident if I ever need warranty work it will be taken care of.

 

[Magnumdood]

SO many GREAT scope choices and truthfully I probably can't test the mechanical limits of a moderately priced 3-9x40 scope. I'm going to send my last acquisition back and shoot irons only and stop buying scopes AND rifles that far outstrip my meager abilities. Then, this time next year I'll have that new BMW Donorcycle.

HA!

 

[Sako man]

Only G2 on the 4Xs right now. I shot a 4-16 for three years. Never needed more.

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Is it true that some are made in the USA and some in Germany? I thought they were all German made?

I have had a NF F1 before and the glass was not great actually it was the worst glass I had owned. The Steiner has much much better glass. As well it's much beefier than the NF. No comparison.

 

[Quickdraw40]

4Xs made here, 5Xs made in Germany. Both with the same glass.

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[SPAK]

I really like my steiner 4-16, however I find the opposite in regards to the parrallax adjustment. For me and my eyes I found it a little more work to get a parrallax free image compared to my Razor. I don't usually pay much attention to the numbers on the parrallax knob but they are nowhere close.

That being said, the image where the steiner is parrallax free is very sharp and crisp. Depending on the conditions and power magnification the razor was not always so. Again, my opinion and my eyes at where the dipoter is set so this is purely subjective and individual.

 

[hk dave]

I don't personally use the numbers to rid myself of parallax. I more use the knob like focusing a camera lens. Works great for me.

 

[dirtyharry44mag]

i have a 5-25x56 msr steiner and love it. plus i got it way awesome price no mount, with shade n case n cleaning rag. 2400 new. feels very solid..... just my opion, which im new to longr ranges of shooting.

 

[SPAK]

I don't personally use the numbers to rid myself of parallax. I more use the knob like focusing a camera lens. Works great for me.

neither do I...it's not reliable. However,depending on the scope I've also found that even though the image is clear, it doesn't necessarily produce a parrallax free sight picture. So far my experience with the steiner is that my parrallax free sight picture has been very clear.

 

[Lafayette]

Build wise they will run with any of the big boys and the glass is on par with schmidt/premeir/USO ect. I am still impressed with the clarity and how vivid the colors are. Never saw any yellow fringing in either my previous 16 or current 25X.

I love the Steiners but I wouldnt go that far... I have an SB 5-25 and my partner has a Stein 5-25. Both with MSRs. We both objectively agree the SB is "better" (optically, build quality, clicks etc) but we both agree that its not $1K better.

 

[19Scout77]

I love the Steiners but I wouldnt go that far... I have an SB 5-25 and my partner has a Stein 5-25. Both with MSRs. We both objectively agree the SB is "better" (optically, build quality, clicks etc) but we both agree that its not $1K better.

Agreed. I have a sb 4-16 and a steiner 4-16, both with gen ii/g2 reticles. The glass is close, but in every other way the sb is a better scope. That said, the sb cost me double what the steiner did.

 

[peterh]

4Xs made here, 5Xs made in Germany. Both with the same glass.

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But the German scope is more money right!!

 

[K_4c]

^ a simple search would answer your question bud... but yes, German assembled=more $

 

[ZombieSlayer]

I also like how the Steiner limits your windage to about 6 mils Left and Right. You can't get the wind turret "lost" on multiple turns as you can on the NightForce and other similar scopes. When it stops, that's it and you know you can turn it back to zero and be fine.
.

Do they limit total travel so you could have 4 left 8 right? Or is this a set your windage zero and you've got even windage both directions?

 

[XOR]

Set your windage and you have 4.7-5 mils each direction if I recall (I made a typo with the 6 mils). The newer scope may have more windage.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Even windage both directions after zeroing knob.

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[Steiner Optics]

We do our best to have the absolute best warranty in the business. That's the goal. I try to get involved in every warranty issue that comes up. You can always contact me here if you have a problem.

The warranty itself is lifetime and transferable as was mentioned earlier. We try to cover everything if at all possible.

 

[peterh]

Steiner Scopes

We do our best to have the absolute best warranty in the business. That's the goal. I try to get involved in every warranty issue that comes up. You can always contact me here if you have a problem.

The warranty itself is lifetime and transferable as was mentioned earlier. We try to cover everything if at all possible.

I have a couple of questions that maybe Steiner Optics can answer. Why two scopes 3-15X50 Military& 4-16X50 Tactical??. Several people here on SH have stated that they are the same scope but they are not. Starting with the fact that the 3-15X50 Military is manufactured in Germany and the 4-16X50 Tactical is assembled here in the U.S. The Military model is somewhat smaller in dimensions it also has a 5X turrets and is a lot more money. There are some good specials going on with the Tactical line but not the Military why?. It is said that both scopes are using the same German glass, although I have not had the opportunity to compare the two something makes me think they are not the same glass. I can't believe that a small difference in turrets and the German manufacture can make such a money difference. Don't get me wrong I want to believe the advertising, Iv'e been on the fence now for a while trying to decide wether to buy one of these scopes. Like a lot of people I can't afford to throw away money which is what happens every time you sell a used scope. Maybe steiner can shed some light on this....

 

[SPAK]

Elevation and windage range are different ... Msr reticle availability possibly????

 

[Quickdraw40]

5x zoom vs 4x, 14 mils per rev vs 10 mil per rev, 26 mils available in knob vs 19.5, 5x approx 35 mils vs 4x approximately 28 mils total available elevation, retracting sleeve 2nd turn vs indicator pin, MSR availability. The 5x is the latest and greatest, hence the price difference.

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[Quickdraw40]

I was just told some 4-16s were marked 'Tactical' and some where marked 'Military'. They are the same scope.

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[peterh]

I was just told some 4-16s were marked 'Tactical' and some where marked 'Military'. They are the same scope.

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Ok! I'm now more confused!! I'm sorry for my ignoramus but you just described two different scopes but you claim they are the same. What is the same about them?? Not only is there a price difference there is also a difference in features. Take a look DirectBrands direct dealer of Steiner scopes and you will see that there are two different scopes listed, Military/Tactical and Military. I really would like to clarify this because I know there others out there that are asking the same ??
n

 

[adamwade]

Quickdraw40,

Is the 5-25 supposed to come with the sunshade? Mine had flip caps, but no shade in the box.

 

[Quickdraw40]

For 2013, they did not come with sun shades, sorry.

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[Quickdraw40]

PeterH, under 'militarytactical', they list the 4x scopes, including the 4-16. Under 'military', they lost the 5x scopes including the 3-15. Two totally different scopes. 4-16s marked Military are the same as a 4-16s marked Tactical.

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[Quickdraw40]

When I say 'marked', I mean physically marked on the scope.

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[Steiner Optics]

The name designation means nothing. We started using the name Military and later started using Tactical rather than Military. The 4x scopes are completely different than the 5x scopes obviously. Don't get hung up on the name that is engraved on the tube, box, manual, website, where ever. If it's a 4x scope (4x-16x, 3x-12x, 1x-4x) then it is the same scope regardless of the name on it. If it's a 5x scope (3x-15x or 5x-25x) then it is the same scope regardless of the name on it. What you need to decide is which one you want (4x or 5x).

If we are running a promotion on a Military/Tactical scope it could be for one family or another but not both although we have in the past.

Does that clear things up?