Stepping into the M1A world

[backyardsniper]

I'm about to purchase an M1A to do some.Target plinking and deer and hog hunting. 5-6hundered yds will probably be max.. They do hold a.vintage military rifle match and a high power match at my local range that I may shoot in. I handload and I would like a rifle that will hold at least 1 moa. So how much M1a do I need do the NM and loaded shoot that much better than the standard. Are the scout and socom even worth.considering

 

[excess]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: backyardsniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Are the scout and sodomy even worth.considering.</div></div>

sodomy?

 

[Northland]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

Typing that on an iphone I see...

 

[backyardsniper]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

Ha ha fuck auto correct. Socom is what I meant haha Socom

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: backyardsniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm about to purchase an M1A to do some.Target plinking and deer and hog hunting. 5-6hundered yds will probably be max.. They do hold a.vintage military rifle match and a high power match at my local range that I may shoot in. I handload and I would like a rifle that will hold at least 1 moa. So how much M1a do I need do the NM and loaded shoot that much better than the standard. Are the scout and socom even worth.considering</div></div>


CMP and NRA rules for Service Rifle Competition require the M14 or commercial equivalent to be fitted with a 22 inch barrel for an as issued look. The flash suppressor must also look as issued. The SA Super Match, NM, and standard rifle are compliant with all rules. Shooting under MOA or close to MOA is mostly about good stock bedding. Although these rifles are still sometimes seen in HP Competition, their glory days are long gone. The M1A has been superseded by the AR based Service Rifle, which is easier on the shoulder, less expensive to shoot, generally more accurate, and takes less maintenance than the M1A.

 

[backyardsniper]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

I understand that it will prob never match an ar platform but the comp thing is second string. It is really about I carried one in Iraq a a designated marksman and I just want one. I have always had an itch for one just trying to narrow down how much m1 I really need

 

[Shooter45]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

I love M1A's, but as mentioned previously, they are much harder to maintain and accurize than an AR. There are many things you can do to the M1A depending how much you want to tweek the accuracy. One of the biggest effects will be the unitizing of the gas system, followed by a rigid stock that has a good bedding.

The M1A system is very hard on the stock/bedding. After that you will see a difference with NM sights and the hooded aperature. Then an upgraded trigger. It all depends how much you want to spend and how much you can.

A lot of the work can be done by yourself, other than the gas system unitizing. You can replace the stock, bed it, replace the sights, and replace the trigger.

 

[thehjot]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

I understand your passion for the M1A. It's an amazing platform and I love mine.
From the ones owned by my father and myself, most of which have seen competition at Camp Perry, I can tell a difference between the standard and the National Match models. I find the NM to be far superior, but I only shoot one standard so it may just be a fluke. I don't see that much difference between the National Match and the Super Match.
My dad will tell you that the Douglas barrel on the Super Match makes a huge improvement, but neither one of us could ever prove it on paper. The two barrel have a different twist, according to the website the NM is 1:11 and the Douglas is 1:10, but we use the same 168SMKs through both guns. Maybe I'm not exploring the weapon to its full potential by not trying the 178s through it, but that's a question for a different thread.
If I were you, and I'm speaking as someone who has spent time behind the standard, the National Match, and the Super Match, I would buy the National Match.
Dad shot M1As in highpower for about 15 years. I shot an M1A for 3 years so far. Between the two of us we have one standard, three National Match, and one Super Match. That should say something about our preference...

 

[Bennyboy]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

Let me preface what I am about to say with this: I love the M1A/M14 and hate the AR10. If you are considering mounting optics on an M1A, let me recommend that you save yourself much time, money and frustration and stop thinking about that. My standard M1A will shoot 1-2 MOA with 155 gr handloads, but it isn't overly consistent(yes it may be me). I love the rifle for what it is, which is an iron sighted battle rifle.
As I said, I don't like the Stoner, but I have them, and they are far more reliably accurate. I may not like it but its true, and the modularity is a huge plus.

Just the other day, I was talking to an old die hard M1A guy that has several M1A's and tried many configurations and he said that he would NEVER recommend that in today's world of great sub MOA AR10s that anyone buy an M1A if they were going to attempt to turn it into something its not. Plus the gas system on the 16" rifles doesn't always work right. I was surprised when he said that but he said if he wasn't into the platform so deep he would go the AR10 route. I'll always have an M1A around, but it just won't do what an AR10 will.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

I'm not sure I agree with the "hard to maintain" bit. I've been shooting mine since 1978, It was a standard but in the early 80s it was converted to a Super Match by Gene Barnett (Barnett Barrels).

I have had no maintaince problems with it with the exception of some shot out barrels and stretched out slings.

It got my my DR badge.

 

[Bennyboy]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

^^^^^ Totally agree with that. IMO the m1a is much easier to maintain. The M1a will gladly eat anything you feed it and ask for more and it doesn't crap where it eats like an AR. I would feel more comfortable going longer between major cleanings with the m1a.

 

[Kodiak61]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

Buy any model, send it to Smith Enterprise in Tempe, AZ and drop some coin and it will do whatever you want of it.

I have owned more M1A's then I can count and had honestly had just about every configuration possible.

I was fortunate to live real close to Smith for 10 years while I was down in Arizona. Spent several hours in Ron's shop talking with him and Andy (tech) deciding on what to do.

They can make any rifle you send them more accurate. Even the Chinese Norinco's. Which bang for their buck is not a bad buy. There is another forum you could check out, the firingline . com which is dedicated to M1A's.

Here are some pictures of my former ladies:

Socom 2 with some Smith Ent goodies:

The (3) ladies: Front SER#909 Divine in an E2 Stock Middle early ser standard from the late 70's bone stock, just cleaned up at Smith and last little girl there is the custom Crazy Horse I had them make.

LRB in a JAE with krieger

I owned some others, but these were the favorites.

I am by no means an expert, I was just lucky to have the contacts and the money at the time to dive in the M1A world to see what I liked.

With what your wanting to do (from above description) I would stay away from the Socom's and look at getting the best deal you could on a loaded or nm. Then after shooting it, if its not doing what you want send her off to Smith Ent and pay to have it do what you want and more.

I am not an great shot and I could hit the 12x12 all the way to 500 with iron sights with regular consistency with that bone stock 70's M1A. I utilized the "lolipop" method and knew my click adjustments. Once someone teaches you that (see firingline or ask an old salty dog marine) it is very easy to engage targest accurately at those distances. Here is a quick lesson, there can be some variance between rifles but I found that its pretty common to be like this on many M1A's. Bottom out the elevation adjustment and then click up 6 times. This usually is right around 100m, then add 2 clicks for 200m and two more for 300m and so on. You of course would want to verify what your exact rifle was doing to see if this was close. And by "lolipop" I mean just that. Your front sight post is the stick and the target is the head of the "lolipop". Aiming this way on the M1A I found to be very effective as stated above. I apologize if those reading already know this information, I am truly not trying to come off sounding like a knowitall.

I know I'm a noob here so I apologize for the long winded post in advance.

Good luck which ever way you go, if I can answer any questions I would be glad too.

Andrew

 

[Shooter45]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

What I meant by hard to maintain is the bedding. Wrong choice of words for that, the M1A's seem to be extremely hard on bedding therefore a solid platform is crucial. In no way was I referring to reliability and I agree with all the other posts about it.

 

[thehjot]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I meant by hard to maintain is the bedding. Wrong choice of words for that, the M1A's seem to be extremely hard on bedding therefore a solid platform is crucial. In no way was I referring to reliability and I agree with all the other posts about it. </div></div>

The National and Super Match models both come glass bedded from the factory. I've never had any problem with them.
My dad has been shooting his 'favorite' National Match, with the original bedding, since at LEAST 1974. I say this because those are the oldest loads I have left, and he didn't start reloading .308 until he was a few years into high power. He's never replaced anything but slings and neither have I.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

The bedding on NM M14/M1As hold up well, its when you pull the action from the stock "unnecessarly" that screws up the bedding.

I never take mine out unless its time to rebarrel. There is nothing that needs cleaned that can't be cleaned without removing the barreled action from the stock.

Maybe that's the problem.

 

[average_freak]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

Kodiak, is the JAE stock worth it? It's something that I cant get away from could you go through that setup a little. I'm guessing you got the single lug for the JAE but does the tension screw deal pay off?

There's not much out there about JAE that is helpful. with the amount of experience you have with m1a's I would like to know your opinion because I'm almost sold on em but still skeptical.

 

[Kodiak61]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lance Criminal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kodiak, is the JAE stock worth it? It's something that I cant get away from could you go through that setup a little. I'm guessing you got the single lug for the JAE but does the tension screw deal pay off?

There's not much out there about JAE that is helpful. with the amount of experience you have with m1a's I would like to know your opinion because I'm almost sold on em but still skeptical. </div></div>

My quick answer would be no, not worth the money. I can elaborate and get all long winded as my previous post shows.

I think they are very cool looking, very comfortable and all of that, but as far as "worth" the price and wait for performance, I just didn't see it.

A properly bedded stock in a quality M1A with a good barrel with a competant shooter can do just as well as an M1A shoved into a JAE.

Maybe someone with more shooting expertise then myself can see the minute difference, however I did not. They sure look cool though, gets lots of attention and give you a work out to boot! I think my set up was just over 16lbs if I remember correctly.

With unlimited funds and a desire for a certain look I would say go for it. However I know that money could be spent in better places accurizing the M1A weapon system.

See I got all long winded again, my bad.

Good luck

 

[backyardsniper]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

Thanks gentlemen. You have greatly narrowed down my choices. I believe a national match will do everything I need to do. I really appreciate all the input and the schooling on the M1 platform

 

[SCOTTx88]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

Love em, Supermatch and Scout.

 

[kmcintosh78]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The bedding on NM M14/M1As hold up well, its when you pull the action from the stock "unnecessarly" that screws up the bedding.

I never take mine out unless its time to rebarrel. There is nothing that needs cleaned that can't be cleaned without removing the barreled action from the stock.

Maybe that's the problem. </div></div>


I am sorry, but I have never heard of nor seen how removing the rifle from the stock could damage the bedding.

The bedding is designed to withstand multiple extremely violent actions, like firing a 308/7.62 round.
Damaging the bedding by removal is highly unlikely, unless you are beating it back into the stock with a hammer.

Besides, the bedding does not last forever.

 

[BCP]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: backyardsniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand that it will prob never match an ar platform but the comp thing is second string. It is really about I carried one in Iraq a a designated marksman and I just want one. I have always had an itch for one just trying to narrow down how much m1 I really need </div></div>

Find a used standard or loaded model and put a leupold m3 on it w/sadlak mount and some sort of cheek riser. Probably be very close to what you had "over there." Ex-military can get discounts on leupold scopes too.

As far as accuracy goes what I have seen has been a mixed bag. Some people I know have had good luck sending their standards/loadeds to smiths to be worked over some haven't. So before you spend $$$ ask around or call various smiths to get an idea of what sort of situation you might be in if you get one that just doesn't shoot the way you want it to.

FWIW the standard I had 10-12 years back was at best 2MOA and the receiver was out of spec so scope mounts didn't work properly. So while there are plenty of people out there happy with their M1A's springfield turns out lemons too believe me.

 

[average_freak]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

thanks for the input, got lots of other stuff to spend money on at the moment. I would love to know how to really work on these things. not as cut and dry as ARs

 

[islandermyk]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

Here's my M1A Super Match mated to a M21 stock.
Shot it out to 700 + yards easy...

 

[CMonty256]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

I have a lightly used SOCOM II for sale if you're looking for one

Monty

 

[mceod]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

I had always wanted one too. Didn't care much about perceived reliability issues or the fact that it would take too much money to make accurate. I liked the fact it was the same platform I had use in Afghanistan.

 

[superjc]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

I have a 22"bbl National Match and an 18"bbl Bush model... the trigger on the NM is like an entirely different gun (both are USGI). Zero feed/function problems ever (with the appropriate mags)The Scott Duff book claims that bedding "needs to be redone" every 1,000 rounds but I'm not sure why that is.. I can see shooting at 800 yds being affected by a .005" movement in the stock but considering it's a 1-2 MOA battle rifle... I've never fed mine righteous ammo to really see what it does, I can't afford to spend all day at the range shooting .308 anymore

 

[NoExpert]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

I haven't cleaned mine in nearly 1000 rounds and it still runs fine. No reliability issues that I've seen in over 5000 rounds. Of course I should add it's not an M1A, it's a custom job on an LRB M25 receiver. The overall function is the same though. It hits steel plates from 100 to 800 yards with its 18.5" barrel just fine using surplus ammo. The killer is the weight. You add anything and it goes up ridiculously fast. Mine is 15.75 pounds in a Sage Mod 1 with bipod, sling, and scope. The 18.5" barrel is a medium contour which adds an extra pound to it. I could use a lighter scope, bipod and standard barrel and drop it 13ish pounds probably.

If it's what you want and you can accept it for what it is, it's a great rifle. If you expect AR precision, you'll be disappointed.

 

[SGT TickleFight]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

The m1a is a battle rifle based on the m1 garand. The thing is built like a tank and heavy so i hope you are strong if you are carrying it around hunting.

I have never seen one that holds 1moa. They are almost always between 1 and 2 minute guns because the barrel is not free-floated. It was never built with precision in mind. It is an amazing gun- just not designed with your stated purposes in mind.

With the type of accuracy they get it would be a 200 yard deer/hog gun at best with 100% successful kill rates.

I think the .308ar market is more what you are looking for.

 

[SS-8541-dono]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

dollar for dollar i will take a m1a over a ar hands down, for the price you pay for a m1a loaded you would be hard pressed to find a ar308 for the same price that will shoot as good and be as reliable for the life of the system. i have a loaded m1a and can hit a 6 inch steel swinger target at 630 yards using iron sights and surplus ammo every time i pull the trigger. if you know how to operate your weapon the m1a is scary accurate and being a short stroke piston my weapon and brass doesnt look like i dropped it in an outhouse when im done shooting it either, im willing to bet most all of the ar fanboys out there have little to no exp with a m1a but sure seems to point out the untruths for some weird reason i guess if i could bolt 6 lights 2 lasers a acog sight and 4 bipods and 2 scopes to a m1a more people would be looking to buy one so they could be tacticool.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

I carried and have much love for the m1a, It is and will continue to be a awesome battle rifle I would happily take downrange

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks for the input, got lots of other stuff to spend money on at the moment. I would love to know how to really work on these things. not as cut and dry as ARs</div></div>

If you pm me with your e-mail address, I'll send you the AMU Guide for National Matching a M14/M1A in .pdf format.

 

[islandermyk]

Re: Stepping into the M1A world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dollar for dollar i will take a m1a over a ar hands down, for the price you pay for a m1a loaded you would be hard pressed to find a ar308 for the same price that will shoot as good and be as reliable for the life of the system. i have a loaded m1a and can hit a 6 inch steel swinger target at 630 yards using iron sights and surplus ammo every time i pull the trigger. if you know how to operate your weapon the m1a is scary accurate and being a short stroke piston my weapon and brass doesnt look like i dropped it in an outhouse when im done shooting it either, im willing to bet most all of the ar fanboys out there have little to no exp with a m1a but sure seems to point out the untruths for some weird reason i guess if i could bolt 6 lights 2 lasers a acog sight and 4 bipods and 2 scopes to a m1a more people would be looking to buy one so they could be tacticool.</div></div>

+1 for this...

I had 5 AR's at one point and got rid of'em all. Didn't like Direct impinge gas system "Sh*t where you eat", and piston type gas system ends with bad BCG tilt... ugh..

Only complaint I got about my scoped M1A Super Match is the weight, but what to expect from a Douglas SS heavy barrel, right? 600 to 700+ yards is to easy for mine shooting at 6x6 inch steel.