Stepping Up To the Plate UPDATE for 9-14 NEW PICS

#701
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

There is something to patent when it comes to 22lr magazines?

I know the USTPO has really lowered their standard for new and novel, but I would have thought that we had wrung all the creative juices out of that fruit.

What stage is the patent in? I assume it isn't available publicly?

No offense, but patenting and proprietary mags makes me nervous. I chop up my 40X and if you go out of business or decide there isn't money in these, what happens to my mag supply if no one else will or legally can make them.

If I may suggest selling the mags near cost so no one has the incentive to sell them also and just increase the cost of the conversion- something that you can control.
 
#702
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pharoh1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not like you can effectively defend a patent anyway. I know of several international multi-billion dollar companies that can't defend their patents in this country... so instead of wasting money trying, why not do what they do? Produce your product and make sure its the best there is, and ensure you support it. THAT is how you protect your position in the marketplace. Not with lawyers.

You "stepped up to the plate" THREE YEARS AGO. (minus a couple weeks) To say that today you aren't completely ramped up on production for these various projects, to include the 605, and then blame your patent lawyer?

Don't make me laugh.

Seriously... Don't. </div></div>

I understand and appreciate that everyone has an opinion and I truly appreciate you taking the time to voice yours. I'm not exactly sure where it is in my last post that I blamed anyone for anything, especially my patent attorney, but I believe I'm better off following his advice, based on him having ALL of the information required to make such an assessment.

If you have a dog in this fight, i.e., a conversion or an order in place, then you're affected and I'll do everything necessary to take care of you as a customer.

If you're a fledgling attorney who was somehow offended by anything I said, or if you have a general and overall disagreement with what patents are truly useful for, then I'll assure you that no offense was intended on my part by anything I stated.

Thanks.
 
#703
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FromMyColdDeadHa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is something to patent when it comes to 22lr magazines?

I know the USTPO has really lowered their standard for new and novel, but I would have thought that we had wrung all the creative juices out of that fruit.

What stage is the patent in? I assume it isn't available publicly?

No offense, but patenting and proprietary mags makes me nervous. I chop up my 40X and if you go out of business or decide there isn't money in these, what happens to my mag supply if no one else will or legally can make them.

If I may suggest selling the mags near cost so no one has the incentive to sell them also and just increase the cost of the conversion- something that you can control. </div></div>

ColdDead,
I understand exactly where you are and you're partially describing why it's important for me to see this through to the end. It's not the magazine specifically that is being patented, but the system as a whole.

The last thing I want is for anyone to not be able to get their hands on magazines, and the approach that I'm taking ensures that you and everyone else will be able to get them and at a good price. I've never stated that the magazines would only be available through me.

Basically, there has been much more to this project on a level beyond development and engineering than I can disclose and in the end, it will all make sense.

I know there are those that are becoming a little impatient, and justifiably so, but I have always and will always execute to the fullest extent. It has been my practice to sweat every possible detail, which is why this conversion (as a system) and the Model 605 (as a system) functions so well. If I don't see this project to the end, then I haven't properly protected the customer base. I hate Chinese garbage in the market place and I have no respect for those that truly believe that R&D stands for Ripoff and Duplicate. The customer base doesn't deserve that.

If you have any questions at all, shoot me a PM and we can arrange some time on the phone.

Thanks.
 
#704
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackOps Tech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have a dog in this fight, i.e., a conversion or an order in place, then you're affected and I'll do everything necessary to take care of you as a customer. </div></div> I see, so unless I pay you first... I have no interest of yours? My "dog in the fight" is that I'm tired of firearm companies publicly announcing a product, and then failing to deliver on said product for YEARS.

Yeah, you don't have my money, so you owe me nothing. Yet to announce something as significant as a large action repeating rifle that would be absolutely perfect for myself and many other more-than-casual rimfire shooters, and then having it be nothing more than a dangled carrot for a period of 3 years is more than a little annoying.

I don't like giving people money with no idea of when said product that I paid for is going to actually be delivered.

Yes I realize this is quite harsh, and I realize you are under no obligation to produce a damn thing. However... are you really out of tune with the fact that people don't like waiting for years to receive a product? If I placed an order for a full out 605 build right now, would that really reduce the time it would take for you to come to market with it?

Also, if you truly believe your company is of a size that can defend against chinese duplicates... you are either completely delusional or are being led astray by some very ignorant attorneys.
 
#705
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

pharo,

I feel ya, but I believe this thread has been started when Mike started the design process, and has been updated along the way.

The frustrating part is getting delivery, or product completion dates, and having them not com to light. I also feel that.

That being said, as this is still the beginning stages, a little more patients is required than normal. I think I speak for all of us who sent in our thousand dollar 22 rifles, that we want it done right the first time, regardless if a extra month or 2 is needed.

Do I wish it was done already? absolutely, but I know in design fase transition to production, things are never smooth and Mike probably didnt forsee any problems. BUT I am glad he found these problems instead of me, as I believe that would hurt his rep more than production delays. And seeing his other work, I know I will be getting a top notch product.

At least I hope so!! ha

Regards,
DT
 
#706
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pharoh1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackOps Tech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have a dog in this fight, i.e., a conversion or an order in place, then you're affected and I'll do everything necessary to take care of you as a customer. </div></div> I see, so unless I pay you first... I have no interest of yours? My "dog in the fight" is that I'm tired of firearm companies publicly announcing a product, and then failing to deliver on said product for YEARS.

Yeah, you don't have my money, so you owe me nothing. Yet to announce something as significant as a large action repeating rifle that would be absolutely perfect for myself and many other more-than-casual rimfire shooters, and then having it be nothing more than a dangled carrot for a period of 3 years is more than a little annoying.

I don't like giving people money with no idea of when said product that I paid for is going to actually be delivered.

Yes I realize this is quite harsh, and I realize you are under no obligation to produce a damn thing. However... are you really out of tune with the fact that people don't like waiting for years to receive a product? If I placed an order for a full out 605 build right now, would that really reduce the time it would take for you to come to market with it?

Also, if you truly believe your company is of a size that can defend against chinese duplicates... you are either completely delusional or are being led astray by some very ignorant attorneys. </div></div>

My response to you Pharoh was directly proportional to the size of the chip on your shoulder. Your goal from the beginning was to start a fight on the Internet, something I have no time or interest in. If you were a customer, you would already know a bit more about me and my company and your approach would've been different. Instead, you chose to approach this from the standpoint of having nothing better to do and give an opinion without having all the facts....gotta love the Internet.

If you have an issue with how gun companies approach or deal with business, then I recommend a butterfly or stamp collection. You're certainly not intimately involved in my company, nor have I paid for any legal advice from you and you have no way of proposing what I'm protecting against, nor will I disclose it on the Internet....that info is between my customers and I. Based on the lack of information in your profile, I have no reason to believe that you aren't part of the group that helped create the issues I'm protecting against.

If you want to continue a rant based on a preconceived and assumptive perspective, then that's your choice, but it doesn't take long before it all sounds ridiculous.

Thanks again Pharoh and I'll be more than willing to answer sensible questions that are presented in a professional and sincere manner.

 
#707
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackOps Tech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks again Pharoh and I'll be more than willing to answer sensible questions that are presented in a professional and sincere manner. </div></div> You mean like this question, which you conveniently ignored?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pharoh1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you planning to get to a point where someone can just call up and order a 605 without having to wait 6 months to a year to receive it? </div></div>
 
#708
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pharoh1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackOps Tech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks again Pharoh and I'll be more than willing to answer sensible questions that are presented in a professional and sincere manner. </div></div> You mean like this question, which you conveniently ignored?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pharoh1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you planning to get to a point where someone can just call up and order a 605 without having to wait 6 months to a year to receive it? </div></div> </div></div>

Again, presumptive. And I said sensible, not combative.

Thanks Pharoh.
 
#709
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pharoh1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you planning to get to a point where someone can just call up and order a 605 without having to wait 6 months to a year to receive it? </div></div>

I'd imagine your wait time would be a lot longer than 6 months, particularly after this performance.

Just to be clear, you're bitching about a rifle you haven't even ordered?

For someone with no dog in the fight, you sure seem hell bent on giving Mike a hard time.
 
#712
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

Good News! By the close of business today (01-14-13), the Patent Application will be filed with the USPTO. This means a few things....First, we'll be shipping the converted 40X platforms with Magazines. Second, BlackOps Technologies will be able to display the complete prototype platform at SHOT Show 2013 (Booth 816).

I apologize for the delay and I have an immense appreciation for everyone's patience. Historically, similar projects that I've embarked on haven't been as dynamic as this one, but we're finally at the finish line.

I'm in LV for SHOT this week, but will be available next week for questions.
 
#714
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

Been drooling over this rifle since it came out, and now that I have a few extra goodies for my other rifles I am wanting one of these more and more.

Really wish I would be in the area for shot show and get a first hand look at the rifle.

Keep up the good work, and to hell with the people that give ya hell.
 
#716
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

I have to deal with people like pharoah on a daily basis(I work in a gunstore). They just don't understand, when something isn't ready or isn't available there is a reason, and will raise hell till its available but when it is they won't fork out the cash for it after all there bitching.
 
#717
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackOps Tech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good News! By the close of business today (01-14-13), the Patent Application will be filed with the USPTO. This means a few things....First, we'll be shipping the converted 40X platforms with Magazines... </div></div>

yay. Christmass in January!!

DT
 
#723
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FromMyColdDeadHa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There have to be a few in Hide members hands by now??? </div></div>

The ones for DTros and M. Gordon are packed up and shipping out on Monday with more to follow.
 
#726
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackOps Tech</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FromMyColdDeadHa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There have to be a few in Hide members hands by now??? </div></div>

The ones for DTros and M. Gordon are packed up and shipping out on Monday with more to follow. </div></div>

D-Tros, post a picture!
 
#729
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinU</div><div class="ubbcode-body">D-Tros, post a picture! </div></div>

Yeah. Get on it man.
 
#731
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

Ha, no fellows, wont be at WHAC, going to TPRC this weekend.

There were some shipping issues, and no rifle in my hands as of yet. WIll def post when I receive.

Regards,
DT
 
#732
Re: Stepping Up To the Plate

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D_TROS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There were some shipping issues, and no rifle in my hands as of yet. WIll def post when I receive. </div></div>

Thats a bummer about it getting held up. I cant wait to see it. My 40X is sitting here gathering dust.

Good luck in Phoenix.
 
#735
Apologies for a noob question, but would a 40X with one of these magazine conversions fit in a KRG W3 Chassis? These look really sick, keep up the great work, Mike!
 
#740
This has to be one the most anticipated products in a long time. I know I have sort of been following this for (IIRC) the better part of 2 yrs. I am eager to see several range reports on these.



Good luck
 
#744
bm11 said:
No new pics in six months and supposedly finished rifles? I'm going to have to call bullshit on this unless SOMEONE PUTS UP NEW PICS!!!
Click to expand...
Mike has built me several rifles and if he says it will happen, I would take it to the bank! My last rifle took almost a year but communication was great and the finished product was beyond my expectations. I am waiting for my build sheet for my third rifle from Mike and I am sure it will be better than I can imagine. Patients is a virtue bro! It's worth the wait.
 
#745
I understand and appreciate being back logged due to a high work load generated by quality work, as I am sure this is the case. However if the 605s are shipping to customers then why no more info on them than what was out there from the start of this. I was on the waiting list for the 605 and had the cash in hand to put down. However I am not going to even start to think about spending a true premium on something that I cant even see a picture of nevermind how the theme of this whole 605 project has been "almost there" "just a few more months" ect. I think its a little pathetic to hype something up and advertise it (obviously just to generate sales, not that I blaim Mike) but take how long to deliver? It seems to me the cart was put in front of the hores here. I think this project should of been in the ending stages before a word was said (in the sales aspect) publicly, not the developmental stages.

I also dont see why people who are not affiliated with this project feel the need to defend those who are. What does it matter to you? Patients are a virtue and excuses are like ass holes... Now before you get too butt hurt over that comment take it for what its worth: There is a major project underway with little to no real intel on it and expensive deposits being taken on that project. Thats my .02, sorry if the truth hurts but I call it like I see it. I am still intrested in this and hope it is everybit and more what I think it can be, but I dont beleve in blind faith.
 
#746
jbell said:
I understand and appreciate being back logged due to a high work load generated by quality work, as I am sure this is the case. However if the 605s are shipping to customers then why no more info on them than what was out there from the start of this. I was on the waiting list for the 605 and had the cash in hand to put down. However I am not going to even start to think about spending a true premium on something that I cant even see a picture of nevermind how the theme of this whole 605 project has been "almost there" "just a few more months" ect. I think its a little pathetic to hype something up and advertise it (obviously just to generate sales, not that I blaim Mike) but take how long to deliver? It seems to me the cart was put in front of the hores here. I think this project should of been in the ending stages before a word was said (in the sales aspect) publicly, not the developmental stages.

I also dont see why people who are not affiliated with this project feel the need to defend those who are. What does it matter to you? Patients are a virtue and excuses are like ass holes... Now before you get too butt hurt over that comment take it for what its worth: There is a major project underway with little to no real intel on it and expensive deposits being taken on that project. Thats my .02, sorry if the truth hurts but I call it like I see it. I am still intrested in this and hope it is everybit and more what I think it can be, but I dont beleve in blind faith.
Click to expand...

It took almost 6 weeks just to get a quote on a custom 605 project. Mike was pretty responsive and seems like a honest person and he even offered to do the bedding for free, but the secretary really dropped the ball on the whole thing, I still never got a final answer about the barrel length I wanted and gave up on the whole idea. I was pissed at first, thinking that I was getting pushed farther and farther back on the wait list since it was taking so long to get a price but I figure they must be super busy, maybe not quite ready on the project, and besides I don't have the patience or desire to have a $2000 deposit tied up for a year or however long it's going to take. In my case it's probably best I got the Anschutz MPR instead, it's amazingly accurate and a third the price.
 
Last edited:
#747
I don't see why people who have no skin(read money) in this game bitch and moan. What does it matter to you! What have you risked? Not a thing. All I am saying is look at the size of a project like this. The amount of time and money that has been invested has to be huge. My experience with Black Ops has been nothing less than stellar and you will not get burned by these guys. That's my dos centavos.
 
#748
I was ready to have money in this game and I stated that in my post. I was going to put the cash down on the build, and thats not an enpty statement like happens so much on the internet. However it just a bit concerning when the most info on this rifle/action is in this thread. There is nothing more on Mikes website, and seeing this is where he opened the forum of "stepping up to the plate" this is where I gave my thoughts. Actually it was sparked by how I find it amazing that people feel the need to completely support a common pratice in this industry by some gunsmiths of saying one thing and doing an other. So yes it does matter to me, I am not intrested in investing in a company I am intrested in purchasing a product and a service that will be returned in a time frame as outlined in the order...
 
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