Gunsmithing stiller tac 30, how true are they??

[logan_rhodes]

i am getting ready to do a build and am stuck deciding between an action, it would cost about the same money for me to buy a stiller action as it would for me to get a rem 700 action blueprinted. I know if I decide on the Remington action that my smith will blueprint it properly. On the other hand I can pick a up a stiller tac 30 and start with a custom action. so my question is, is the stiller action as true as a properly blueprinted rem 700 action? do they need any work at all, or are they ready to roll from the factory? thanks in advance for the help!!

 

[Ultraman550]

True as a mother f'ker. I just had Chad @ LRI build me a rifle with a Tac30 and a Bartlein. Action didn't need any work at all and I was able to squeeze out some time this past Tuesday with several different rounds. The rifle is accurate...... Get the Stiller.

 

[logan_rhodes]

nice! good to hear. getting ready to pull the trigger on one

 

[dworrel]

I would go with the Stiller as well.

 

[selfbowhunter]

True as a mother f'ker. I just had Chad @ LRI build me a rifle with a Tac30 and a Bartlein. Action didn't need any work at all and I was able to squeeze out some time this past Tuesday with several different rounds. The rifle is accurate...... Get the Stiller.

you are familiar with ONE example. I am confident Chad checked your stiller for runout prior to building your rifle but I KNOW some smiths don't and that is a mistake. IT IS NOT GUARANTEED THAT A CUSTOM RECEIVER WILL BE "TRUE" WHEN YOU GET IT! I used the surgeon RSR a LOT and they were a great value for the money but I have seen them runout over .010!!! most factory remingtons have FAR less runout than that. if surgeon cant guarantee zero runout I doubt stiller or most others can either. don't buy the custom receiver thinking it is going to offer some kind of accuracy advantage over the Remington because it wont. a properly tuned up Remington will hang in any shooting sport aside from true benchrest and a sleeved Remington will still do that!

 

[bohem]

Amen SBH

A wise rifle builder said to me one time "Check every receiver you work on, no matter how much it costs or how true it claims to be"

That advice has served me very well, and I've worked on a number of custom actions... very very few of them are actually "true out of the box"

 

[JSTARSZ]

I think I remember a recent very "heated" action cvonversation that discussed this very topic. I think the conversation got way out of hand but I think what I got out of it was to check all the actions no matter who they came from.

 

[logan_rhodes]

thanks for the advice guys

 

[LRI]

Against better judgement, I'll attempt to contribute to this post. Hopefully it doesn't erode into a daytime saga...

Tammy Forster. 3x World Cup Gold Medal recipient in International Smallbore. Her Anschutz has a bulge right in the middle of the bore from a squib and it shoots so well it'll scare you to death.

Corbin Shell. Won a TN State Long range championship with a Mauser action likely bought from a place like Shotgun News...

Middelton Tompkins. I first shot with Mid when I was 20 years old at the 1991 AZ Regionals. Mids rifles are about as ugly as it gets. Drywall screws holding stuff together, etc. His action of choice at the time was a 1950's vintage M70 P64 and I watched him rip the match a new ass with a clean score and an X count of well over 60% at the 200 yard slow fire stage of the match. For those unaware, this is highpower. Iron sights and your standing when you shoot this stage. No rests, optics, bipods allowed. Back up his scores against today's best course shooters. The numbers are alarmingly similar and those are shot with exotic pieces like the Tubb 2K or any number of other contraptions that are alleged to make you a bad ass...


Point is this; Things may very well be "outside" of true, spec, wishes, wants, etc. Its certainly nice to have things all centered and square. We do our best to ensure this as the customer is paying for it.

However the proof is in the holes it makes on the paper. You can fret and stress over it, or you can put some gas in the truck and go shoot to become a better marksman. As you do this stuff more and more you learn that there are certain things that distinguish themselves as vitally important. Other things not so much. Then there's stuff that just baffles the mind. (Tammy's rifle being one of the most noteworthy in my career)

Experience is never cheap.

Good luck.

C.

 

[flatland1]

I gotta hang with Chad on this. I've built rifles for myself & customers using customs including BAT, Pierce, Stiller, Nesika, Surgeon, & Kelbly Grizzly, along with bunches of M700s that I've trued myself, a few M70s, Howas, Sakos, and even a couple of little CZ527s for 6RAT builds. When it comes to runout on the receiver face, some of the newer M700s are as good as any of the customs I've checked. Every once-in-awhile, I'll run into a new 700 with .002" or slightly more runout, but the majority of the new ones I've bought from Brownells are considerably better than any of the older actions I've seen. Say what you will about QC at Remington since they were bought by Freedom Group, but the new CNC machines that are making actions are doing a lot better job of turning out straight actions than the old machines did.

The biggest difference in accuracy seems to come more from the shooter's ability & confidence in his (or her) equipment, rather than in a specific brand of action or even barrel. I've also shot LR & MR prone matches with Mid Tompkins - got to know him through friends who are stockmakers. Shot a 600yd MR team match in perfectly calm conditions with Mid a few years ago, and clearly recall him telling me that "I'll break your arm if you reach down here to turn my sights" when it was my turn to coach. IIRC, he shot a 200-15x in that match, but I was fortunate to manage 17Xs, so was able to take his comment in good humor.

 

[TxShooter63]

Chad is even more on the money than usual with his insight. I run Stiller actions and I watched one of my fellow PRS competitors clean a very difficult stage with a borrowed bolt out of another Stiller action after his vanished bouncing across a field on the way to a stage.

When I finally got a rifle capable of shooting sub 1/4" groups I was living on a range. It took me shooting several times a week for MONTHS to be able to break the barrier from consitently shooting 3/8" groups to a legitimate sub 1/4" groups on a regular basis. The amount of perfection needed in operating the rifle for that level of consistent accuracy is hard to comprehend. Most folks would just rather keep changing scopes, brass, bullets, powder, loads, receivers, barrels, bipods and anything else. Spending hundreds of hours behind the rifle isn't alot of fun. I get really annoyed when I hear guys who shoot in some of the professional rifle series referred to as elitist. No, we are just guys who work our asses off to be the best we can be. No one appreciates a good shot or shooter more than we do. Buy a good rifle and scope and start shooting. Spend your money on good quality brass, primers, and bullets and then PRACTICE!

 

[FN in MT]

When I finally got a rifle capable of shooting sub 1/4" groups I was living on a range. It took me shooting several times a week for MONTHS to be able to break the barrier from consistently shooting 3/8" groups to a legitimate sub 1/4" groups on a regular basis. The amount of perfection needed in operating the rifle for that level of consistent accuracy is hard to comprehend. Most folks would just rather keep changing scopes, brass, bullets, powder, loads, receivers, barrels, bipods and anything else. Spending hundreds of hours behind the rifle isn't a lot of fun. I get really annoyed when I hear guys who shoot in some of the professional rifle series referred to as elitist. No, we are just guys who work our asses off to be the best we can be. No one appreciates a good shot or shooter more than we do. Buy a good rifle and scope and start shooting. Spend your money on good quality brass, primers, and bullets and then PRACTICE!

Amen!

 

[Copyleader]

...best thread I've read on here for a long time...good information and even better wisdom....Chad, do you want an apprentice? I always learn how much more I have to learn after reading your posts.....thanks...

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

However the proof is in the holes it makes on the paper. You can fret and stress over it, or you can put some gas in the truck and go shoot to become a better marksman. As you do this stuff more and more you learn that there are certain things that distinguish themselves as vitally important. Other things not so much. Then there's stuff that just baffles the mind. (Tammy's rifle being one of the most noteworthy in my career)

Experience is never cheap.

Good luck.

C.

+1

The target tells all.

 

[WhiteHorze]

i am getting ready to do a build and am stuck deciding between an action, it would cost about the same money for me to buy a stiller action as it would for me to get a rem 700 action blueprinted. I know if I decide on the Remington action that my smith will blueprint it properly. On the other hand I can pick a up a stiller tac 30 and start with a custom action. so my question is, is the stiller action as true as a properly blueprinted rem 700 action? do they need any work at all, or are they ready to roll from the factory? thanks in advance for the help!!

90 percent of a rifles "Mechanical" accuracy comes from the chamber and the last 4" of the barrel. Now if you're asking if the stiller is worth the money? Yes. Will it make the rifle more accurate? Not unless you measure your groups with a dial caliper. The stiller simplifies scope mounting and will command a higher resale value.

 

[hero's machine]

The true factor is this, it's true that a stiller or ______ action may require a bit of work to get nuts on level, flush, plumb and square. ....but that money will always come back to your wallet faster than a trued up Remington. Most used customs bring their value, and unless the Remington is signed by someone dang famous. ....it's worth $500.

All that aside, buy a notebook and a keg of powder and rock on.

 

[Rem40xb1]

The most accurate rifles I have ever built were done on Remington 700 actions that were not trued in any way--I have used Bat, stiller,Nesika,Lawton, and a few other actions. Ross

 

[skeetlee]

isn't the heat treating process wear some crookedness might come into play? I don't think a little out of true matters much either as I have seen plenty of proof to lead me to my beliefs. I will say though, in benchrest were first and second place can be separated by as little as .005 everything starts to matter. mostly the shooter! lee

 

[zac_c]

I would go with a stiller I have a tac 338 and love it my buddy has a tac 30 and it is really nice can't beat them for the price

 

[logan_rhodes]

i have heard that with the deep flutes on the stiller tac 30 bolt they will sometimes get hung up on the mag lips when running It with a dbm, have any of you guys any insight on this? or know the cure?

 

[bohem]

i have heard that with the deep flutes on the stiller tac 30 bolt they will sometimes get hung up on the mag lips when running It with a dbm, have any of you guys any insight on this? or know the cure?

Mine has bent several mags because of this. It happens with DBM's that don't have an upward travel stop (which is almost every one of the models I can think of except the BlackOps DBM). If you shoot the rifle from a pack or a position where the mag is pushed into the receiver by something the tendency is RH bolts bend the port-side mag lip shut and the mag ceases to feed.

With LH bolts it closes the mag lip on the opposite side of the port.

The cure is 1 of 3 things:

1) Run a DBM with an upward travel catch (BlackOps is the one I'm familiar with, there might be others)
2) Be super sure that you never create the situation defined above (yeah, right...)
3) Stiller changes the fluting geometry to something like what is on BigHorn and Surgeon receivers.

 

[Rthur]

I have seen the mag problem on a stiller. This was with AI and Alpha 2s. After trying a few of my mags it only happened on one AI and one Alpha. Not ideal but it solved my problem. BTW this was in a AICS chassis. So far no problems on the manners mini chassis.


R

 

[Rooster931]

Custom actions, trued actions and stock actions. In my expirence the custom actions bring more in the resale market however the most accurate rifle I have ever owned was a factory Ruger M77 heavy barrel in .22-250. Wood stock, no bedding and shoots the same hole every time. Best part is I am NOT a fan of that style action however I wouldn't trade it for three or four custom actions. Some rifles shoot and some dont I dont care what action or how true it is. Just because it says x name doesnt mean it's gonna shoot great. With all that buy the Stiller if you haven't already.

 

[jsthntn247]

A guy I know bragged how good his factory sporter Savage hunting gun shot with factory ammo. He bragged so much that a well known smith challenged him to bring it to his range and he would shoot some custom's and show him how good a gun could shoot. The fella shot a couple 2" groups at 800 yards with that factory rifle and blew everyone's mind. Sometimes the stars just line up and everything works perfecet on factory guns and actions. With that said I have guns built on Stiller, Remington, and Savage actions, I'm happy with the accuracy of them all, but the Stiller will hold it's value a little better.

 

[logan_rhodes]

thanks for all the info and advice guys, I went ahead and bought a stiller tac 30 308 sa, with a Krieger barrel in m24 contour with an aics 1.5 stock as well as a timney trigger and a nightforce nxs 5.5-22 power moar reticle scope and seekins rings. it will be chambered in 7mm-08 . it should all be complete within the month and I will be sure to post pics when its all done!

 

[logan_rhodes]

 

[logan_rhodes]

sorry for the small picture. that's the finished product, my smith trued up the face a small amount ( probably not truly needed but he is anal like that) other than that all the action specs were great and very true. the gun shoots every thing i run through it to half moa at 200 yards. I decided on a round (berger vld 140 with re-15 and norma brass and fgmm primers) and did some shooting at 420 today to stretch its legs and it produced consistent 2.5 inch groups with a 2.5 mph crosswind on and off. so all that to say the action is very nice and im now a stiller believer. thanks again for all the advice!

 

[xringaccuracy]

A little filing on the forward (muzzle end) of the right side mag feed lip will help if you ever get upward pressure on the mag.

 

[logan_rhodes]

I actually can put as much pressure as I want on the mag and cycle the bolt and I don't get any contact. I also run a timney trigger and did not have to mill any aluminum out to fit it?? I wonder if they fixed these problems with the new 1.5 stocks. ..