Straight back behind the rifle-question #7,823

[J-ROD]

Ok so first off, I did the online training for awhile and currently study and re-study the SH videos from LL. I have tried, tried and tried again to get straight back behind the rifle. If the butt of the rifle is where my collar bone meets my neck, and I force my neck up and to the right, I can do ok with respect to accuracy and recoil management. But this is very uncomfortable and not repeatable. I have to constantly readjust my neck/head during & between shots. My shoulders are not square either. I look like this guy below...my spine also has a slight bend to it as his does.
Now if I slightly cant my body (not straight back behind the rifle) so the rifle barrel is inline with my right leg (RH shooter), man I could almost fall asleep on the rifle and the position is repeatable, shoulders square, etc. And again, I don’t want to upset the HSIC (LL), just want to know if I am seeing things wrong in these pics. These two of LL look like my comfortable position but maybe a top view would show he is exactly straight back behind the rifle.
If LL is angled back some, obviously it’s working, then I’m going to do the same. If I am seeing the pictures wrong, then I will just continue to work on my straight back behind the rifle thing.

 

[Jack Master]

This is what we are after.

 

[J-ROD]

I understand the concept, but my eye is not looking through my scope without rolling my head up and over and neither is the guy in your picture.

 

[Texasflyer]

I draw a line thru my right foot as pictured above. Then i lay on my rifle like im gonna take a nap, i just lay there and get comfy for a few moments, then i look up. I nowhere near the pro most of these guys are... just a novice, but this helps me get where i need to be. If you arent comfy then you need to adjust something.

 

[Texasflyer]

Your looking to rest your cheek between the jaw and upper cheek bone against the rifle, with a slight head tilt. It needs to be the same spot every time.

 

[SmartDonkey]

Go out and test it. Shoot a group square behind the rifle and then shoot a group with how you feel more comfortable (or many groups). My position is pretty good.... just a little off angle- But until I get into very hard recoiling rifles I can not notice a difference on the target. Of most of the things that we need to be doing during shooting I find that being square makes the least difference- with shoulder pressure being much more important.

 

[Texasflyer]

Looking at the pictures... is your scope maybe mounted too low to get a good sight picture?

 

[Jack Master]

Here is Philip Velayo doing position one and two. These are ever so slightly different but this little difference make it work better.

Getting the rifle stock High enough on the shoulder is important. Than having the scope set right, and the cheek Height set right will stop the need to role your head. Between rifle setup, rifle connection the body and body position we should be able to eliminate rolling the head.

Facebook of 1 and 2. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2907912612758645

Watch Velayo Video "rifle to shoulder" here -

Watch Velayo Video here -

@velayo_0317

 

[Lowlight]

it's mostly camera angle

I am straight watch the beginning of the videos I do as part of instruction, teaching

I index the rifle in a very specific way,

I index my feet behind the mat

my knees as I approach

my shoulders as I lay down

Sure you can find a picture of me here and there for various reasons but what exactly are you trying to point out, that you are more worried about the camera angles and what you "SEE" versus how it is taught and explained ad nauseam

Look at these screen shots, how can you be anything but straight you are looking at a camera angle most of the time, you can't put the camera dead in front of you there are angles involved

I index the rifle the EXACT same way every time, doesn't matter the position we line up straight

 

[Jack Master]

Plus - If your rifle is to low to the ground for your body type you will always need to role your head and tip it. Get High enough up on your elbows, this allows the rifle to come closer to the base of the neck, get the rifle high enough on the should so you don't lay on the rifle.

Send us a couple good pictures of your position and we can help you some more.

 

[J-ROD]

Thanks for the responses guys. Getting up more on my elbows helps a bunch, I’m 6’2” so not sure how high I should be relatively speaking. I will work on pictures if I can convince the wife unit to do gun stuff for a hot second lol.
LL thanks for your response...man I just want to shoot like you sir. Thanks for your service btw. Not to be critical but in that Valkyrie video, it looks like you shift your knees to the left at .10 and your hips to the left at .18. That’s about the angle I am talking about for me, just ever so slightly to get my eye better lined up over my shoulder pocket so I don’t have to roll my head as much.

 

[Lowlight]

You can shift for a variety of reasons,

Heck it might be something under the mat that is uncomfortable, my neck and shoulders are jacked, I could have not felt great that day and you see it.

Every single body is different, the variations are minor, a 1/2" here, 3/4" there ... it just how our bodies are, the terrain, the rifle set up, the target locations

All that comes into play, it's Rifle pointed to the target and shooter pointed to the rifle

I would bet, you are too low like Ted said, big guys on the lowest bipod setting with a scope mounted as low as possible because everyone said get low. Big guys are always too low,

You have a 6"-9" bipod with a 9"-13" body

 

[Precision Underground]

The guy in the pic with his head rolled over is too low and laying on top of the rifle. Use your back muscles to get upright enough to address the rifle and then BRING THE RIFLE IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE. This goes back to what I always harp on- what you want is you attached to the ground with the rifle attached to you; not the rifle attached to the ground with you attached to it. The guy in the pic is 100% the latter. When you lay ON the rifle you have to roll your head over. When you’re grounded, straight, and upright you can pull the rifle in front of your face and pull it into your shoulder.

 

[J-ROD]

LL & Ted, so I raised my bipod up to max, definitely helps. You are right, I need a few more inches, story of my life lol.
Thanks Precision, I see what you mean and will try that tomorrow.

so I was only able to convince my 6yr old to take pics. Forgive the ugly mug and the crocs and the messy garage, we’ve been “building cool stuff together”.
This is the super comfortable position...may be wrong in many ways but I could literally take a nap like this. There is ~4.5” worth of bags underneath which I feel is the minimum...so will just have to get a taller bipod to account for elevation I guess as the rifle is nearly parallel.
My youngest also requested I include a pic of him in this post as payment for taking the pic haha.

 

[Lowlight]

Now load the bipod

you can come up high at your shoulders raise the butt into the position and then settle behind it.

don’t use that rear rest, it’s an F Class rest

Jr is looking solid + plus points

 

[J-ROD]

Thanks LL. I did load the bipod, it’s a cheap knock off I just got to try before I invest in the real one, so it doesn’t have any slop to take up unfortunately.
Sorry for the confusion, I am using sand bags in the pic, and not planning to use that Fclass rest...it was just on the floor because my youngest wanted to use it prior to these pictures.

So if I am not angled too much, then I am going to roll with this position...

 

[barronian]

@lowlight why would one not use the Protektor type rear bag ? or asked another way - is there a situation where they are appropriate to use ?
I'm asking because i've been using one combined with an F-class bipod and now i'm trying to learn the technique that you and @Precision Underground advocate (i'm training without any rear bag at the moment).
My challenge is .22 lr, prone, at 100m and 200m so recoil management, although not violent at all, is still a real issue.

 

[Lowlight]

That rear rest is designed to be paired to a F Class Front Rest so the heights are specific to shooting a flat prone range

A real rear bag gives a shooter flexibility in position as adjustments are made for different target packages which are not always directly in front of you on a level plane

That rear rest appropriate in F Class, we can compromise in any number of ways, compromise is not always bad, but here we are talking best practice and not a compromise

We see compromises all the time, some work better than others, but really what is a compromise?

 

[barronian]

@lowlight Thanks. makes sense. I was worried that i was over thinking things - or missing the point somewhere. Horses for courses....

 

[Greg Langelius *]

How do I get to Carnegie Hall???

Practice..., practice..., practice...

Some practice until they can get it right; others until they cannot get it wrong.

Good marksmanship is not an outing; it's a lifestyle...

This year I embarked on a project; to see if I could transform my AR's into Benchrest rifles. I simply wanted to see if the concept holds any water.

The gear is ready, I just can't seem to stay o/o the hospital long enough the range work. The plan is to shoot from straight behind rifle, just as LL suggests.

Where applicable, bag rider attachments//stocks are part of the new equipment setup.

Greg