stuck on chest

[eli polite]

So a little back history between 1995 and 2000 i lifted regularly 4 days a week ,, I than stopped out of necesity I had Kids and just got to busy. Now the wife and I are back at it and we have been going at it for almost 7 months now. I'm 38 6'3" 225lbs

I have been showing steady and regular increases with just about every muscle group aspecially legs I have no problem doing 4 sets of 10 at 325lbs with squats leg presses are even more I finised my last set with 550lbs 10 reps 4sts total. biceps i can easly do 5 sets of 10 with 70 lbs standing curls.. Thats proper form standing streight and not having to throw the weight up. i have similar results with back even my tricepts

I just feel like im not increasing in my chest area as fast as I am with other groups. So here is my chest routine..

1st flat bench pres
1st set 185lbs 10 times
2nd set 205lbs 10 times
3rd set 225 only 5 times
4th set 245 ony 2 times

next 20 degree incline bench 4 sets of 10 at 135lbs the last set is a struggle

next 45 degree incline 4 sets of 10 at 135 lbs the last two sets are a struggle

butterflys I work in rexers on these and start at 225 lbs and decreses the weight each set by 20 lbs but go untill I am burnt.

I just feel like the increses are not as signifigant as the other groups. A ny reason why? I would like to reach 350lbs in thenext 4 months am I crazy

 

[kswaterfowl]

If you want to bench heavy, you have to train heavy. Start your first workout of the week with some sort of max effort bench movement doing heavy triples and singles (ie: flat bench, incline bench, close grip bench, floor press). Also try and work in a dynamic effort day using bands or chains. Throw on about 50%-60% of your max and throw some bands or chains on, and work on speed. Don't forget to train heavy triceps and back.

 

[kswaterfowl]

Also technique is a big part of the bench.

 

[eli polite]

I want to reah 350 than start to work on reps I dont need or want to be a 6 or 700 lb guy my goal is to be able to bench 350 8-10 times consistantly

I always work on correct form over weight

 

[JBNj]

If your looking to bench 350 8-10 reps. You will need roughly a 465lb max bench. I believe we had agree to disagree about body building vs strength routines. Maybe I'm wrong if it was you. But anyway your chest routine all though not bad for some goals, it wouldn't be what I would do if strength gains is the end goal. Not trying to attack your routine. But if it was me and that was my goal i would structure my routine to give me the biggest strength gains. If you kindly could, state your max bench and how many times per week you bench. It will help me structure your bench programming to get the most out of strength. Look up smolov jr for benching if your really trying to get those numbers up.

 

[Nate O.]

Sounds like you need to build your triceps more.It all takes time, Be patient.

 

[kswaterfowl]

JBNj hit the nail on the head, you need to work on strength gains. You will never get to 350 for reps in without training heavy. You can still do your 8-10 reps on auxiliary lifts. But you need to train heavy on your main lift, so you get used to handling heavy weight.

 

[eli polite]

If your looking to bench 350 8-10 reps. You will need roughly a 465lb max bench. I believe we had agree to disagree about body building vs strength routines. Maybe I'm wrong if it was you. But anyway your chest routine all though not bad for some goals, it wouldn't be what I would do if strength gains is the end goal. Not trying to attack your routine. But if it was me and that was my goal i would structure my routine to give me the biggest strength gains. If you kindly could, state your max bench and how many times per week you bench. It will help me structure your bench programming to get the most out of strength. Look up smolov jr for benching if your really trying to get those numbers up.[/QUOT

I dont think it was me with a disagreement. I havent maxed in a while so I will do that the next time I do chest I will let you know. rite now I can only work out every other day and some times I cant get there on the week end but I do my best every 3rd outing is chest. I have seen pretty good increases in my tricep routien. I am now doing dips with 2 45lb plates chained around my waist and on the tricep press machien I can press 350lbs.. MACHIENS ARE DIFFRENT THAN FREE WEIGHTS.

 

[Nate O.]

I'll say it again. Your triceps need more work.

 

[Darkside-Six]

Look up Bill Stars 5x5 routine. No joke, it works! 350 in the amount of time you're hoping may be a stretch but it will pack strength and size onto you, that's for damn sure!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Northman623]

If you want to get the kind of strong your talking about start out by reading Wendler. Second start doing his Boring But Big routine it was one of my best growth cycle routines. With your current numbers it will take a few years but don't give up. Get a good diet you can live with, think paleo and a lot of chicken. rRemember that to meet your goals you will have to build everything not just chest and back. Pay attention to your core. Good luck.

 

[JBNj]

All though Wendler 5/3/1 and bill star and various other 5x5 programs are great for the general population for strength, the progression can be slow for some people once you hit a certain training point. With Wendler you have really only one work set (amrap=as many reps as possible) while training the chest once or twice a week. This is not enough training volume(for people who aren't lifting elite world record levels). 5x5 are good but can get boring and lead to stalling out. I have run both programs to good success but I believe something like smolov jr is what the dr. ordered for this case.

I havent maxed in a while so I will do that the next time I do chest I will let you know. rite now I can only work out every other day and some times I cant get there on the week end but I do my best every 3rd outing is chest. I have seen pretty good increases in my tricep routien. I am now doing dips with 2 45lb plates chained around my waist and on the tricep press machien I can press 350lbs.. MACHIENS ARE DIFFRENT THAN FREE WEIGHTS.

No problems if you don't know your max. Generally i dont like to max if i dont have a competent spotter. This formula will give you a rough estimate. Weight*(1+ reps*.033). On your next session just take a fairly heavy weight that you can press anywhere from 4+ reps. Plug how many reps into the formula to get a rough idea. When starting with smolov jr. Take 20% off your estimated max to build a cushion for you to work up to. Below is a link if a brief overview of the program. What you will be doing is increasing your working volume. A lot of heavy lifting for high volume sets low reps. Generally while running smolov you will not do any other auxiliary lifts for that muscle group as the program is very taxing. Its a three week cycle that can be run multiple times but will need to Deload(take it easy 50% training volume)for a week between cycles when your body starts feeling sluggish.
Smolov Jr Program ? Smolov Jr

Any questions feel free to ask

 

[eli polite]

thank you for all the input i am researching the info posted.. I dont realy have a competent spother.. My wife spots for me

 

[Nate O.]

I dont realy have a competent spother.. My wife spots for me

LOL!!

 

[eli polite]

yeah ^^^^^ we work out together but she weighs 110lbs and if i get in trouble with 250+ there is no real help there

 

[Grolfesst]

MONDAY: pic a press lift to max on (special strength day)
follow with accessory work chest tries delts
WednesdaY: pic a squat or dead lift to max on
follow with accessory work: quads and glutes and upper back
Friday: dynamic chest day bands or chains on bar exercise
accessory work chest (rep max on something) tries delts
Saturday dynamic squat or dead chains or bands
follow with accessory work legs quads glutes upper back

like the the guys said above if you want to add strength you have to do heavy weight. add weight to your dips pushups pull ups but don't compromise form. and make sure your not just strait up squat dead and bench maxing every week. you want to max using boards from various heights, pin lockouts box squats pulls from certain pins. you'll wind up injured if you max the full range of the lifts every week. also you need to change your dynamic bar exercise every three week. look in to west side barbell routine. what i posted is the tip of the ice burg good luck

 

[eli polite]

all of this info has been helpful i thank all of you for your imput

 

[JBNj]

all of this info has been helpful i thank all of you for your imput

Honestly you don't have to change much with your current program. Just tweak a few things. The idea behind strength training it to hit your major muscle group heavy and hard while doing a few auxiliary lifts to balance muscles, strengthen the weak link in your chain in your major movement. You saying your doing flyes to burn out with a lot of incline. Sometimes in this case less is better. Change your rep scheme for your flat bench and your good to go.

Use(set x reps) 6x6 70% max, 7x5 75% max, 8x4 80% max, 10x3 85% max, 12x2 90% max. As your set/rep scheme with the percentages.

Bench 2-3 times a week picking any two rep scheme preferably one light one heavy. Add 5-10lbs weekly until you stall. Knock the weight back down 20lbs and work back up. You will have to use the formula i gave earlier to get a rough max and minus 10-20% to start.

one 5x10 auxiliary lift* you can rotate these every couple of weeks in the 40-50% weight range for that exercise.

One medium-heavy 3-4x5 supplemental lift. This is to target your weak link for that muscle group. Example: if you have problems locking out the bar you will need tricep work. Weighted dips, push presses and such. Have problems moving the bar off your chest? 3 second Pause benching will help you there. Or board presses working from the sticking zone. Add 5 pounds weekly.

That's it. You don't want your aux/sup lifts to burn you out for your next training session and you don't want them taking over as the focal point either. Once you start seeing what needs more work you can add this and that.

 

[REELDOC]

Back in my youth I worked out with many power lifters and learned several things. The most important thing I learned was that heavy auxillary lifts helped me more than anything especially when I hit the wall on benches. I would skip heavy benches for a couple of weeks and do heavy back, delt and tricep work. During those two weeks I also did light dumb bell bench work once or twice a week using lots of reps. One of my mentors in the 70's explained that a lot of lifters expend too much energy controling/balancing the weight on the down stroke due to poor ancillary muscle strength. Within a couple of months I saw great improvement in the heavy bench work. I was also supprised to find out that many of the power lifters only maxed out a once maybe twice a month................ Your mileage may vary, carry on.

 

[--BLACKOUT--]

Back in my youth I worked out with many power lifters and learned several things. The most important thing I learned was that heavy auxillary lifts helped me more than anything especially when I hit the wall on benches. I would skip heavy benches for a couple of weeks and do heavy back, delt and tricep work. During those two weeks I also did light dumb bell bench work once or twice a week using lots of reps. One of my mentors in the 70's explained that a lot of lifters expend too much energy controling/balancing the weight on the down stroke due to poor ancillary muscle strength. Within a couple of months I saw great improvement in the heavy bench work. I was also supprised to find out that many of the power lifters only maxed out a once maybe twice a month................ Your mileage may vary, carry on.

This is it right here. It is not your chest holding you back, it is the small stabilizer muscles that are not ready for the weight you want to put on them. Strengthen your shoulders, back, core and triceps to handle the load your putting on yourself.

I never max out and never use a spotter. I stick with a certain weight till I get to the reps I want. If I'm doing 3 sets of 12 with say 200lbs, I keep at it until I can do all 12 reps of the last set by myself. When that happens, I know to increase the weight even if it is just a couple pounds or more reps.

Think of it like this... If you do 3 sets of 10 reps with 100lbs, you just moved 3,000lbs.

Vs

3 sets of 4 reps with 200lbs, you just moved a total of 2400lbs.

Which one has the most weight moved?

That's what worked for me, plus, I don't get those nagging injuries where I have to go lighter to give my shoulder (or whatever) time to heal.

 

[JBNj]

Think of it like this... If you do 3 sets of 10 reps with 100lbs, you just moved 3,000lbs.

Vs

3 sets of 4 reps with 200lbs, you just moved a total of 2400lbs.

Which one has the most weight moved?

That's what worked for me, plus, I don't get those nagging injuries where I have to go lighter to give my shoulder (or whatever) time to heal.

What??? 3 sets of 4 with 200 pounds? Why limit yourself to just three sets. Why not 7-9 sets of 4 at 200?
Here is a simple question. If a guy has a 300lb max bench, which workout is better for strength purposes.
Workout a:
3 sets of 10 reps at 150lbs (50% max, 4500lbs moved) or

Workout b:
10 sets of 3 reps at 255lbs (85% max, 7650lbs moved)

While the answer may not be simple for all around purposes, i guarantee the guy who is doing workout b will get stronger faster. Total volume is the same at 30 reps, but the guy training workout b is training heavier which will get a better response from their cns compared to lifting light like workout a.

 

[--BLACKOUT--]

What??? 3 sets of 4 with 200 pounds? Why limit yourself to just three sets. Why not 7-9 sets of 4 at 200?
Here is a simple question. If a guy has a 300lb max bench, which workout is better for strength purposes.
Workout a:
3 sets of 10 reps at 150lbs (50% max, 4500lbs moved) or

Workout b:
10 sets of 3 reps at 255lbs (85% max, 7650lbs moved)

While the answer may not be simple for all around purposes, i guarantee the guy who is doing workout b will get stronger faster. Total volume is the same at 30 reps, but the guy training workout b is training heavier which will get a better response from their cns compared to lifting light like workout a.

The sets were just an example, as were the reps and weight. You can do how ever many you like and adjust the weight as you see fit with less wear and tear on your body.

Doing workout B may get you stronger faster but also increases the percentage to injure yourself. It seems to me, the people on this site would go for endurance more than winning a strongman contest. I could be wrong.

I just looked at your post again and I missed where you wrote 10 sets of 3. So, lifter is going to do 85% of their max 30 times!? How long would this take? How many other exercises are going to be done? How bad would form be half way through, bouncing off chest doesn't count. Using a spotter?...then you are not lifting 85%.

I would rather do workout C. 225lbs for 4 sets of 10. 9,000lbs moved.

 

[JBNj]

The sets were just an example, as were the reps and weight. You can do how ever many you like and adjust the weight as you see fit with less wear and tear on your body.

Doing workout B may get you stronger faster but also increases the percentage to injure yourself. It seems to me, the people on this site would go for endurance more than winning a strongman contest. I could be wrong.

I just looked at your post again and I missed where you wrote 10 sets of 3. So, lifter is going to do 85% of their max 30 times!? How long would this take? How many other exercises are going to be done? How bad would form be half way through, bouncing off chest doesn't count. Using a spotter?...then you are not lifting 85%.

I would rather do workout C. 225lbs for 4 sets of 10. 9,000lbs moved.

Hey blackout, just noticed you added some other questions. So I'll answer as best as I can.
Yes 10 sets of 3 @85% max.
Time it takes to complete? Typical for me maybe in the 30-40 min range.45-55min for squats. Figure 2-3 min rest between set benching and 3-10min rest for squats. Obviously lesser rest is gonna introduce other benefits but for the moment strength training we are focused on moving the largest amounts of weight. Lifting heavy causes a neural muscular adaptation which is your central nervous system firing all motor units efficiently. Lighter weights causes some, but in order to lift heavy one must actually lift heavy.

How many other exercises are done? Depends on the individuals need. For me it depended on what I was trying to focus to help improve my main lifts. For me 1.5 hrs. typically, some 2hrs.

How bad would form be halfway through? Form didn't suffer much that would cause a concern maybe in the last sets i would notice my body shifting a little. This can be addressed and fixed by identifying the weak link. Which will help increase your lift.

Spotter? Very few occasions. But i find that most are tempted to grab the bar before i lock out so i don't count those reps which pisses me off, especially if its a rep pr.

Think you can lift 4 sets of 10 @ 75% max....then i would say you could max more than what you underestimated your max to be.

As with all programs there are some downfalls. Smolov is meant as a peaking program for lifters to squeeze out and gains to be had for a competition. One cannot sustain staying with the program forever. You will feel like shit, mentally your brain will tell you you can't and to stop, but you'll get by and be rewarded. Its like controlled overtraining. But your body is capable. Don't think its possible to do 85% as above then you have quit before even trying.

 

[--BLACKOUT--]

Hey blackout, just noticed you added some other questions. So I'll answer as best as I can.
Yes 10 sets of 3 @85% max.
Time it takes to complete? Typical for me maybe in the 30-40 min range.45-55min for squats. Figure 2-3 min rest between set benching and 3-10min rest for squats. Obviously lesser rest is gonna introduce other benefits but for the moment strength training we are focused on moving the largest amounts of weight. Lifting heavy causes a neural muscular adaptation which is your central nervous system firing all motor units efficiently. Lighter weights causes some, but in order to lift heavy one must actually lift heavy.

How many other exercises are done? Depends on the individuals need. For me it depended on what I was trying to focus to help improve my main lifts. For me 1.5 hrs. typically, some 2hrs.

How bad would form be halfway through? Form didn't suffer much that would cause a concern maybe in the last sets i would notice my body shifting a little. This can be addressed and fixed by identifying the weak link. Which will help increase your lift.

Spotter? Very few occasions. But i find that most are tempted to grab the bar before i lock out so i don't count those reps which pisses me off, especially if its a rep pr.

Think you can lift 4 sets of 10 @ 75% max....then i would say you could max more than what you underestimated your max to be.

As with all programs there are some downfalls. Smolov is meant as a peaking program for lifters to squeeze out and gains to be had for a competition. One cannot sustain staying with the program forever. You will feel like shit, mentally your brain will tell you you can't and to stop, but you'll get by and be rewarded. Its like controlled overtraining. But your body is capable. Don't think its possible to do 85% as above then you have quit before even trying.

JB,

I agree with a lot of what you said in the above post. I lifted heavy for a lot of years and just got tired of the same old thing. I hated when my shoulder would hurt enough that I couldn't do the workout I had planned. I wanted something that worked but something that didn't work me over. I researched a bunch of different ways people work out and found what I do now.

I wouldn't say I lift light, but I don't ever max out or go to failure. I use enough weight to do all the sets and reps I have written out. If/when I come up short on reps I stick with that weight till I accomplish my 225 for 3/4 sets of 10. It's taking me an average of 3 weeks to add more weight without having to back off because of my shoulder being sore. I continue to make progress and get stronger, consistantly. It's what's been working for me for about 8 years now. I got the concept from an MMA fighter who said, "always leave something in the tank. It will be there later, like $ in the bank."

 

[JJones75]

If you lift a weight and get 10 reps then increase the weight and get 10 reps again you were slacking on your first set. If you are not reaching failure on your final reps then you are short changing yourself on the intensity..
the 5x5 routine is a proven method for gaining power but you need to keep a log and either increase your reps or increase your weight each week , basically forced progression.
I personally would pick a weight you can only get for 10-12 reps max , use that weight and do 4-5 sets to failure andnif possible have a spotter assist you with an additional rep. Again keep a log and beat the weight or.reps each week.
Several of my clients are using this routine and making good gains in size and power (they go hand in hand)

Honestly , I would not bother with normal barbell bench , its an ego lift andrereally doesn't offer any real world use.

 

[JJones75]

Another big factor is your nutrition , especially before , during and after your training.

 

[DT1]

If you lift a weight and get 10 reps then increase the weight and get 10 reps again you were slacking on your first set.

That's the first thing I noticed in the OP's first post and agree. No matter which routing you pick, after warming up, get with the program and make all the sets count! If your not doing it already, write down what you lift on each set (weight & reps). Next time, go for an extra rep or add 5pounds. It's amazing how easy it is to spin your wheels if you don't note your performance each workout and strive for improvement on the next workout.

Congrats on getting back into weightlifting! I love working out with my wife, fun stuff! Stick with it and most importantly, enjoy it!

 

[JBNj]

JB,
I got the concept from an MMA fighter who said, "always leave something in the tank. It will be there later, like $ in the bank."

I forgot to mention something important. The 10x3 @85% can be replaced with 6x6 @70%, 7x5 @75%, 8x4 @80%. The set reps and percentages are meant to introduce a heavy intensity level on your central nervous system (cns). Without over taxing your cns causing excessive soreness. Which will mess up your next workout. Now I was lifting heavy 4-6 times a week. My body was constantly sore. Got used to it and actually loved that sore feeling afterwards. I don't know if your shoulder sorness is injury related. I had minor shoulder pain problem when i first started lifting, i noticed after looking over my training log that i did a lot of pressing volume. And not enough pulling volume. So i added rear delt flys and face pulls. Solved my rear delt problem and fixed my shoulder. If you do a lot of pressing i would look to strengthen your rear delt if that is your issue unless there are other things going on with your shoulder. Also remeber at the bottom of the bench your elbows should be by your side and not flared out. This will help take stress away from the shoulder.

My starting lifts for my big three at the start if my training after a long layoff were pathetic
Body weight 150lbs
Bench- 155lbs
Squat- 185lbs
Deadlift- 205lbs
At the end of 14 months, my lifts were
Body weight 145-148lbs
Bench- 300lbs
Squat- 415lbs
Deadlift- 435lbs
I attribute most of my quick strength gains to mostly neuro muscular adaptation. Previous best lifts 10 year prior were 275lbs bench, 365lbs squat, 385lbs deadlift. It took me 7 years to get those numbers (12-19 age). When your young your cns doesn't work as efficiently compared to when you get older. And that is what I'm basing my experience from.

Im a big fan of russian style (high volume high frequency heavy lifting) strength programming. Its not for everybody. You will need to build a good work capacity in heavy lifting to get through the workouts. I don't believe heavy lifting leads to more injuries, i do believe lifting heavy while not addressing certain deficiencies or your weak link will lead to injuries. Which is my concern with certain things like crossfit and their wods. I wanted to get back to my previous athletic shape. Which ment training like an athlete so i put in a lot of time into my training. (In the gym to get strong, outside the gym to focus a specific sport movements.) Time some may not have, as I'm at this point in my life tryin to find time.

And your last sentence I'm a firm believer of. No need to trash your body. If you miss a workout due to being sore, than you miss a day to get stronger.

 

[Lucky Se7en]

I was just reading the first post and now butting in late...but that bench weight does seem real low compared to your other lifts, if you're curling 70 lb Dumbbells properly 225 should be baby weight on the bench comparatively. I wonder if you've had some kind of injury that may have compromised your form

 

[DT1]

if you're curling 70 lb Dumbbells properly 225 should be baby weight on the bench comparatively. I wonder if you've had some kind of injury that may have compromised your form

I don't think he's curling 70lb dumbells. 70lb bar maybe. I apologize to the OP if I'm wrong. Not too many people on the planet who can curl 70lb dumbells with good form

 

[Lucky Se7en]

It's nothing unreasonable, I used to do single arm curls on the preacher bench with 75's and a lot of people do full workouts just for their arms. It just seems strange how his bench is so low comparatively, I'd guess someone doings those weights would be easily getting 315 5x5

 

[Nate O.]

It's nothing unreasonable, I used to do single arm curls on the preacher bench with 75's and a lot of people do full workouts just for their arms. It just seems strange how his bench is so low comparatively, I'd guess someone doings those weights would be easily getting 315 5x5

I must be missing something. What does how much a person can curl, have anything to do with how much they can press?

 

[eli polite]

80 lb bar bells now 4 sets of 10. and I have been focusing more on my triceps I'm hanging 2 45 lb weights and doing 4 sets of 10

 

[kswaterfowl]

I must be missing something. What does how much a person can curl, have anything to do with how much they can press?

Haha, that's kind of what I was thinking.

 

[ScentlessApprentice]

Do your warm up sets
Then bench five sets of five
Move up 10 lbs a week
You will get there follow with some close grip tricep bench work and finish with different dumbbell stuff
I'm a skinny little guy that could bench 365+ for sets at 35 yrs old
I never maxed out during a workout to see how much I could lift

 

[JBNj]

80 lb bar bells now 4 sets of 10. and I have been focusing more on my triceps I'm hanging 2 45 lb weights and doing 4 sets of 10

I forgot to ask. What is your benching style, Bodybuilding bench or powerlifting bench? I ask cause there is a big difference in form. I would use a powerlifting style for strength gains and bodybuilding style for muscle building if your in a calorie surplus. Keep up the heavy dips. You can rotate dips for heavy push presses or add them in your workout. Don't forget heavy barbell rows and proper shoulder development. (Attack your rear delts) you will find your bench increasing as long as you have proper upper body development.

 

[Lucky Se7en]

I must be missing something. What does how much a person can curl, have anything to do with how much they can press?

Not many people are serious enough about lifting to go to the gym and curl immense amounts of weight and not workout their chest at all, and if you're seeing gains in your lower body and your arms but not your chest, something seems disproportional.