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Advanced Marksmanship sub min of angle?

cornhusker

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 10, 2012
414
2
74
Towandaa,Pa
someone please explain to me the meaning of sub minute...

I hear it all the time.This rifle shoots sub minute at 300-500

etc...I don't understand it..If my rifle is shooting a 1 hole 5 shot

at 100,is that sub sub sub min.?
 
It simply means under 1 MOA at any given distance. Less than 1"@ 100, less than 2"@ 200 and so on. Pretty simple.
 
Cornhusker,

MOA is an angular unit of measurement that equates (roughly) to one inch per one hundred yards. In other words, one inch at 100 yds, two inches at 200, ten inches at one-thousand yards. Anything shooting under this measurement would be "sub-MOA."

The measurement comes from an arc that subtends 1/60th of one degree. There are 360 degrees in a circle, so a minute is 1/60th of one degree. If you want to determine MOA at any distance, multiply inches (range) by .00029089, and that's the dimension. At 100 yards, you have 300', so 300' x 12 (inches in a foot) gives you 3,600 inches. 3,600" x.00029089 gives 1.0472", which is MOA at 100 yards. At 150 yards, you'd have 5,400", so 5,400 x .00029089 gives 1.5708" which is MOA at 150 yds, and so on. Measuring your group (outside to outside, for extreme spread, minus bullet diameter), if the figure is below MOA at whatever distance you're dealing with, you're sub-MOA.

Hope that answers your question.
 
One minute of angle (think of it as a very thin slice of pie) subtends an arc of ~ 1.0472" at 100 yd. The arc is the circle (piecrust) and the 100 yd range is the radius of the circle. If your gun shoots with one minute of angle precision, you should be able to put all your shots into a circle on your target that is equal to 1.0472" in diameter. One half minute of angle would be all the shots in a circle about 1/2" in diameter. As the range increases (radius of the circle), the arc length (piecrust) increases proportionally. So at 500 yd, a 1 MOA shot group would be equal to ~ 5 x 1.0472" (~ 5 1/4"), or five times larger than at 100 yd. Sub-MOA simply means a group at some distance that was in a circlular diameter less than one minute of angle.

Of course, the more shots you fire, the more chance you'll pull one, or the wind will blow it off line and the group will get bigger. Generally, groups of less than five shots are considered suspect when used to imply some level of precision for a given rifle. 5 shot groups are a little better indicator, and 10 even better. There are plenty of statistical analyses for group sizes versus shot number if you care to search. As the number of shots in a group increases, at some point you are more likely measuring the precision of the shooter, rather than the rifle. In any case, take a look at the cartoon below, which is a representation of the pie analogy I used above in MOA and milliradians (mils), which are just a slightly larger angle or slice of pie. Hope that helps answer your question.

Slide1-10.jpg


As another example, the targets below were shot at 300 yd, 15 shots per target. The inner circle scratched into the surface (around the red dot) is ~ 0.45 minutes of angle, in other words, a 1.4" diameter circle at 300 yd. The second circle is ~ 0.9 MOA, or 2.85" in diameter at 300 yd, and the third is ~ 1.9 MOA (5.85" in diameter). These correspond to the scoring rings on a 300 yd Reduced Palma F-Class target. As you can see, all the shots on Targets 1 and 2 are either touching, or inside the 1 MOA line. Therefore, they would be one minute groups. On Target 3, which actually was 17 shots, I pulled a couple to the right. So this is more like a 1.5 MOA group.

SBRGC300yd6-8-13crop_zpsd607ed29.jpg
 
someone please explain to me the meaning of sub minute...

I hear it all the time.This rifle shoots sub minute at 300-500

etc...I don't understand it..If my riflat 100,is that sub sub sub min.?
e is shooting a 1 hole 5 shot

LOL a 1 hole 5 shot group would be classified as a Sub 1/2 MOA goup or even sub 1/4 MOA group. My goal is to try to keep my 20 shot groups under 1 MOA which would be 1" or less at 100 yards or 3" or less at 300 yards
I always say this dang rifle is SUB MINUTE! it impresses people and makes old guy tremble at the matches LOL LOL LOL
 
your getting to good for me to even compete Dan..Just the sight of your smoke pole causes me to flintch at every shot.