Subsonic lever gun caliber

[elwarpo]

Looking for a lever gun to shoot subsonic and trying to decide between 444 Marlin and 45-70. Mustly shooting suppressed for hunting. I like the 45-70 having a larger bullet, since at 1000fps the only way to increase energy is a heavier bullet. My question is will the 458 bullets reliably expand at 1000 fps since they are designed for rifle velocities? I know the 429 bullets of the 444 are designed for pistols ans will expand nicely atsubsonic speeds.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

This answer depends some on what you are hunting, but assuming you are not after Bear or something that needs maximum penetration....

If you want a subsonic only rifle, I'd look at the 45 Colt. There aren't a lot of choices for subsonic 45-70 ammo, it is a poor choice because the case capacity is too large for the small powder charges leading to inconsistent velocities. Since your trajectory will be like a rainbow, that matters if you want to shoot past 75 yards. There are some .458 bullets designed to expand at subsonic velocities, but you are talking specialty ammo that will be expensive and difficult to find. If you reload, you may find some bullets shoot but don't feed reliably.

What matters more than bullet weight, is a bullet design that will expand at the velocities you will shoot it at. You will have a much better selection in 45 Colt.

Also, a 45 Colt will let you use a .45 ACP Suppressor whereas the .458 needs a big bore like the SilencerCo Hybrid.

 

[elwarpo]

Thanks, have the 46 hybrid. Was looking at the 454 casull, since I could load it heavier. I do reload, so not a problem. Hunting will be hogs mostly. Reason for the larger cartridge is for the small amount of time I will be supersonic. Plan on using it for bear defense while camping with full power ammo.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

I'd take a 454 Casull over a 45-70, but it sounds like you are on the right track.

 

[SpeedyR]

do you reload? if not then for the 45-70 your main options for subsonic are Hornady Sub-X ammo, or specialty stuff from Buffalo and other companies (usually using machined brass bullets like Maker bullets). Not sure what subsonic 444 ammo is out there, haven't ever looked.

If you reload there are plenty of options for subsonic bullets but as Old Man said, what are your expectations, targets, and distances you are thinking of shooting? That might make a big difference.

I picked up a Marlin Dark recently and hoping to have my Primal out of jail shortly, have been developing sub loads (340-500gr) and it's fun and easy to work up a load for the big lever gun, at least compared to getting an AR15 in 300 blackout to work smoothly.

My plan is to use some cast/powder coated loads for plinking (340/405/500gr) and then develop a good load using the Maker 500gr bullets for hunting.

 

[wvfarrier]

I shoot a lot of 45 colt standard pressure which is subsonic. It is super easy to load for and there is a ton of factory ammo. If you decide you need more muscle, it is still.easy to load.for

 

[Maverick3009]

I plan on getting a Marlin in .44mag for whitetail here in Indiana (fucking straight wall bs) and found that Steinel ammo out of Ohio offers a 275gr .44mag subsonic that should be good at <100yds. It's a Maker full copper bullet, might be useful for .444 if that's the route you go.

 

[elwarpo]

I reload, main reason to go big cartridge is full power defense for bear while camping. Leaning to the R95 in 45-70, can pick them up for under 700 and my friends I shot was nice.

 

[FuhQ]

I reload, main reason to go big cartridge is full power defense for bear while camping. Leaning to the R95 in 45-70, can pick them up for under 700 and my friends I shot was nice.

If you reload, the .444 is the no-brainer option, since you can get .429 pistol bullets like the FTX and XTP that will expand at subsonic velocities, and you don't have to buy expensive specialty solid copper bullets for range plinking.

I have both cartridges, just partial to the .444 Marlin for the nostalgia, and the fact I have, and reload for, .44 Mags, too. The nostalgia being that it's a really cool old school Marlin cartridge, and I still have my dad's old 1960's Marlin Model 444 in .444 Marlin, with the JM stamp barrel.

 

[264win]

I’ve always thought the 500 S&W would be an ideal choice for a sub lever gun.
The 44 mag or 45 LC would probably be easier. And either would do fine for a bear gun loaded with buffalo bore ammo.

 

[SpeedyR]

I’ve always thought the 500 S&W would be an ideal choice for a sub lever gun.
The 44 mag or 45 LC would probably be easier. And either would do fine for a bear gun loaded with buffalo bore ammo.

I keep thinking a Big Horn Armory 89 White Lightning would be a cool gun to have a can on, but not sure who makes one that would work. My Primal will go up to .46.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Can you get one in .450 Bushmaster?
You can get factory subsonic ammunition for that easily.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

45LC is hard to beat. Can be loaded subsonic very easy. Can also be loaded to almost .454C levels for some real energy. Factory loads in both, cheapish brass and bullets. Henry makes factory guns in 45LC and the Ruger Superhawk in .45LC would be a killer pair.

 

[doubloon]

My question is will the 458 bullets reliably expand at 1000 fps since they are designed for rifle velocities?​

I shoot 45-70 subs and most won't legitimately expand but the Hornady Sub-X (410 grain .458”) is supposed to be built for expanding at sub velocities.

I don't have any direct experience with expanding subs, just trying to get your thread back on the actual question you asked.

 

[KYAggie]

I have two 45-70’s and bullets from 350-550. Those 550’s take up a lot of powder space which is good if you want to run them slow. I’m not sure I would want an expanding bullet for hogs though; I think a heavy cast LBT would work better. I am sitting on a cash of Trail Boss which helps for running them as subs, but other powders will work especially for long heavies.

 

[KYAggie]

Here’s some 45-70 loads for a Trapdoor from the Hodgdon website, there are powders other than TB that will work:

 

[joe777]

Ain't gonna need no expansion with a .45 hole in em.

 

[tsu45]

Can you get one in .450 Bushmaster?
You can get factory subsonic ammunition for that easily.

Maybe someday

Bond Arms | LVRB™ (Coming Soon)

www.bondarms.com