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super trickler
- Thread starter Sigma
- Start date
So here’s my first impression….,
I was hoping AI learning would get me to 90+ % Accuracy. It got me between 70 and 75%. That said, avg time was well below 15s. In fact, 3.9 secs at some point was not really a surprise anymore (I know, it’s crazy). I wouldn’t mind bumping up the time by another 10 seconds if that would get me better than 90% numbers, but I would have to mess with it, learn and experiment, which I don’t want to have to do and which is why I opted for the self-learning thing In the first place.
I was hoping AI learning would get me to 90+ % Accuracy. It got me between 70 and 75%. That said, avg time was well below 15s. In fact, 3.9 secs at some point was not really a surprise anymore (I know, it’s crazy). I wouldn’t mind bumping up the time by another 10 seconds if that would get me better than 90% numbers, but I would have to mess with it, learn and experiment, which I don’t want to have to do and which is why I opted for the self-learning thing In the first place.
What’s the turn around time been from time of order? I just ordered one yesterday, website states July for shipment.
Ordered Jan 4th, order number 1322.
At the time of ordering it was estimated end of April/beginning of May, which would have been correct except for a chip shortage followed by a power supply shortage.
Yes, I do live in Germany and I hope mine stays here.
Freude am Wiederladen.
Part of my tracking with the time in Germany:
Part of my tracking with the time in Germany:
| 5/26/2023 04:45 AM | Departed from Facility Louisville, KY, United States |
| 5/26/2023 12:25 AM | Import Scan Louisville, KY, United States |
| 5/24/2023 11:03 PM | Arrived at Facility Louisville, KY, United States |
| 5/24/2023 09:30 PM | Departed from Facility Koeln, Germany |
| 5/23/2023 06:04 PM | Arrived at Facility Koeln, Germany |
| 5/23/2023 12:18 PM | Departed from Facility Herne-Boernig, Germany |
| 5/23/2023 09:49 AM | Arrived at Facility Herne-Boernig, Germany |
| 5/22/2023 11:00 PM | Departed from Facility Vejle, Denmark |
I bet they dropped mine or something. It arrived in Koeln the same timeframe as yours did and hasn't left since
Another update. I‘m sitting here at my kitchen table and me moving around or one of the dogs walking by makes the scales readout move (up and down). Almost to the point of “don’t breathe” or it will affect your charge. This thing is scary accurate!
Better move it into the basement where there’s a concrete floor. Maybe get a dedicated shelf or something to eliminate vibration.
Initially I didn’t completely understand the vibrator speed thing (I figured it would take a woman to read that section of the manual
), but it pays off to read up on it and set the min and max settings for your powder. There’s an option in the menu where you can observe what’s happening when dropping at both min and max vibrator settings (the manual says to make sure it doesn’t bounce out of the cup) and on my wobbly table I noticed any little movement by me would sometimes result in a lower read and then the next kernel takes it over the edge. Simply turning min or max vibrating speed down makes a big difference in my opinion. You can see it on the display where the icon is either shaking or blinking. I’m still averaging 15 secs (just a guess, probably still less). Btw… N170 is pretty coarse so especially with that in mind I’m very impressed. With that being all you have to do and let AI do the rest, this thing is IT.
I don’t want another science project or have to join facebook to copy or exchange settings. I’m at an age where I’m done learning. I just want to use and enjoy things. The ST101 lets me do that. I can handle the min and max vibrator thing as long as that’s all there is to it and it’s a 1 time deal. It is.
Better move it into the basement where there’s a concrete floor. Maybe get a dedicated shelf or something to eliminate vibration.
Initially I didn’t completely understand the vibrator speed thing (I figured it would take a woman to read that section of the manual
), but it pays off to read up on it and set the min and max settings for your powder. There’s an option in the menu where you can observe what’s happening when dropping at both min and max vibrator settings (the manual says to make sure it doesn’t bounce out of the cup) and on my wobbly table I noticed any little movement by me would sometimes result in a lower read and then the next kernel takes it over the edge. Simply turning min or max vibrating speed down makes a big difference in my opinion. You can see it on the display where the icon is either shaking or blinking. I’m still averaging 15 secs (just a guess, probably still less). Btw… N170 is pretty coarse so especially with that in mind I’m very impressed. With that being all you have to do and let AI do the rest, this thing is IT. I don’t want another science project or have to join facebook to copy or exchange settings. I’m at an age where I’m done learning. I just want to use and enjoy things. The ST101 lets me do that. I can handle the min and max vibrator thing as long as that’s all there is to it and it’s a 1 time deal. It is.
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As per prophesy it showed up today. It was scanned in Germany yesterday and arrived a couple hours ago. I know it went back 8 hours in time through time zones so that helped I'm sure, but that's bonkers.
Great - as my German buddy says , this is what happens when you are dealing with time travel
You hit it with the bulk throw, fine and pulse were never engaged. I like those too, but they should rarely be happening, because if the bulk inflight were just one tick higher you would go over. May explain why your success rate is 75% (assuming overages are from bulk tube, which usually they’re from fine/pulse). One way around this is to add a small “bulk offset” of say 0.5 grains.
how's everyone liking v2.4?
AI seems to do about 50-60% of the work. But it's back to watching the tubes after that.
I turned the "fine" setting back on. Still don't understand how to set the "idle".
AI seems to do about 50-60% of the work. But it's back to watching the tubes after that.
I turned the "fine" setting back on. Still don't understand how to set the "idle".
Make sure “Simple Profile Mode” is turned off. V2.4 defaults to that setting so AI does all the work, you have to turn it off in order to set the idle speed.
Do you know what to look at when setting idle speed? From my understanding the vibration won't give any visual ques?
You might hear a slight difference in the tone of the pulse, but otherwise it will just push kernels out much faster/more consistently. More often than not I end up between 25-35% idle speed depending on the powder.
Help with the last step? Im confused about the step 2 and 3. Do I continue pressing Mode until the number is 50 gram and put on the 100 gram weight? Thanks.
I believe that's only if you'd like to change your calibration weight from 100g to 50g.
what part are you struggling with specifically?
Also, F-class john dropping an Ingenuity Precision video and that thing looks insane. I've been playing with the ST and 2.50 RC2 and it's showing a lot of great potential but by the looks of it, they will be getting a run for their money when the IP drops.
what part are you struggling with specifically?
Also, F-class john dropping an Ingenuity Precision video and that thing looks insane. I've been playing with the ST and 2.50 RC2 and it's showing a lot of great potential but by the looks of it, they will be getting a run for their money when the IP drops.
I sold my Super Trickler. Does anyone know the procedure for performing a factory rest on the FX-120i scale? I assume I should do that after changing all of the settings per the Super Trickler manual.
Will do, but it's worth watching the F-class john video as well. I'll give an update on RC4 when I get to it.
The ST will all go on sale at fire sale prices when IP “drops” bc it is markedly superior in every way
Ask me why I sold mine a month ago
Mine works OK so I'm hesitant to sell it but the ability to drop the IP on a scale, calibrate, and load is huge. The ST is marketed for the tinkerer but that gets old pretty fast along with the ridiculous words, engineer, talk and sub par manuals. I'm hoping the latest revisions charge reliably and that I can get my favorite powders dialed in and happy.
Its worth noting that John mentions loading 500 rounds with 2-3 over throws and 6-8 second charges of 57.5gr (N555). That right there makes the price difference a moot point. I wish I could understand the difference between the AI and what ever the IP uses but at the end of the day I really dont need to.
I can explain why artificial intelligence is needed for the stupid trick, but not for the ingenuity precision device.
The stupid trickler is trying to in real time monitor in flights to predict what that ridiculous vibratory tube is doing so that it knows how fast to vibrate it and when to slow it down and how much etc. There is a ton of different moving parts going on in that thing because of the unreliability of the in-flight, and the amount that is going to come out at a given rate from the vibratory tube. The extreme variability of what comes out of that tube because of how the kernels back up in that tube is an almost insurmountable engineering problem.
For the ingenuity precision, the bulk drop is 100 to 200 ms with an open gate via gravity. It then checks the mass the scale is reporting and calculates how many degrees the rotating wheel must turn to dispense enough kernels to make up the weight between the bulk drop, and the target. And it knows the average weight of a colonel Because of the calibration so it can get extremely close by dispensing a largely predetermined, low variability amount of additional mass of powder. It then does a final top-off of the last couple kernels if necessary.
In essence, the IP solves all of the problems of the variable in-flights from the stupid trickler bc it “knows” exactly how much powder it’s going to drop. It doesn’t have to guess and monitor and do a bunch of light speed calculations: it just calculates how many kernels on average are needed to top off the charge and then it simply drops them.
It is the triumph of a superior design.
The stupid trickler is trying to in real time monitor in flights to predict what that ridiculous vibratory tube is doing so that it knows how fast to vibrate it and when to slow it down and how much etc. There is a ton of different moving parts going on in that thing because of the unreliability of the in-flight, and the amount that is going to come out at a given rate from the vibratory tube. The extreme variability of what comes out of that tube because of how the kernels back up in that tube is an almost insurmountable engineering problem.
For the ingenuity precision, the bulk drop is 100 to 200 ms with an open gate via gravity. It then checks the mass the scale is reporting and calculates how many degrees the rotating wheel must turn to dispense enough kernels to make up the weight between the bulk drop, and the target. And it knows the average weight of a colonel Because of the calibration so it can get extremely close by dispensing a largely predetermined, low variability amount of additional mass of powder. It then does a final top-off of the last couple kernels if necessary.
In essence, the IP solves all of the problems of the variable in-flights from the stupid trickler bc it “knows” exactly how much powder it’s going to drop. It doesn’t have to guess and monitor and do a bunch of light speed calculations: it just calculates how many kernels on average are needed to top off the charge and then it simply drops them.
It is the triumph of a superior design.
What's the issue with the ST? I preordered then purchased the AT V4 and received it mid September of last year. Not long after, the ST became available and it seemed to be the cat's pajamas. All the videos I watched showed fast and accurate powder drops with a pretty nice built in interface. I was, and still am, very happy with my V4 as it loads faster than I can keep up with my workflow and I get few overthrows, so I'm not looking to change anything but was just curious. I thought I had kept up with this thread fairly well, but apparently not.
Same here, all I read was about how the AT was trash and almost everyone was dumping their AT's and IP tricklers for this new and shiny super trickler and now it's crap and old news, better hurry up and off load it. Lol.... I never took the leap on the ST, I already had the IP and an AT V3 powder throw and it was perfect so I never really needed it.. It was something to think about though, you know how it is, everybody wants the newest and greatest of everything..
I think a lot of it was hope and wishful thinking as much as it was needing to have the latest bling.
I waited and waited with my Char masters before making the leap to something supposedly superior. I never got the V3 because I load a lot of 50 cow powders and I knew that it would choke on them.
I got the V4, and was beside myself that I was supposed to create homemade shims to tilt it, and make it work
So I sold it and got the super trick hoping that all of this fancy electronics saved the day. In the end, that thing is hamstrung by a fatal flaw: the errant, incorrigible, rogue vibratory motor that you cannot control to reduce the variability enough for consistent drops. What’s more, and the worst part, is that the damn thing is temperature sensitive so it’s dispensation characteristics change as it heats up with use and changes dramatically if the ambient temperature is different from session to session. And Rex in Denmark won’t hear anything about it. He’s deaf to the complaints.
So you have to have different settings for the trickler the beginning of the session, the end of a session, and a warm, medium or hot ambient temperature. At least you do if you are paying attention and not satisfied with 15 or 20 sec drop times or success rates less than 80% which are commonplace unless you elate willing to wait there for it to drop that last kernel second after painful second.
I don’t give a hoot about what is the latest greatest thing, I’m just hopeful that the IP device solves all of the problems of its forerunners.
My worry is that these developers tend to be stubborn, and it is a characteristic that they all seem to share. And stubbornness imperils their designs through resistance to address flaws in an open minded way, and promptly. I also get the impression that they send devices for testing to Yes-men and cheerleaders rather than the more difficult critical and ultimately constructive testers. Or, they ignore the difficult feedback.
We shall see.
I waited and waited with my Char masters before making the leap to something supposedly superior. I never got the V3 because I load a lot of 50 cow powders and I knew that it would choke on them.
I got the V4, and was beside myself that I was supposed to create homemade shims to tilt it, and make it work
So I sold it and got the super trick hoping that all of this fancy electronics saved the day. In the end, that thing is hamstrung by a fatal flaw: the errant, incorrigible, rogue vibratory motor that you cannot control to reduce the variability enough for consistent drops. What’s more, and the worst part, is that the damn thing is temperature sensitive so it’s dispensation characteristics change as it heats up with use and changes dramatically if the ambient temperature is different from session to session. And Rex in Denmark won’t hear anything about it. He’s deaf to the complaints.
So you have to have different settings for the trickler the beginning of the session, the end of a session, and a warm, medium or hot ambient temperature. At least you do if you are paying attention and not satisfied with 15 or 20 sec drop times or success rates less than 80% which are commonplace unless you elate willing to wait there for it to drop that last kernel second after painful second.
I don’t give a hoot about what is the latest greatest thing, I’m just hopeful that the IP device solves all of the problems of its forerunners.
My worry is that these developers tend to be stubborn, and it is a characteristic that they all seem to share. And stubbornness imperils their designs through resistance to address flaws in an open minded way, and promptly. I also get the impression that they send devices for testing to Yes-men and cheerleaders rather than the more difficult critical and ultimately constructive testers. Or, they ignore the difficult feedback.
We shall see.
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I think Paul is cut from a different cloth and will be quick to remedy any flaws that may arise. He also doesn't seem to rush things to market until he feels confident in the product.. Sure am glad I stayed away from the ST after hearing that.. The main reason I didn't Like it from the get go was the way you had to empty it and all of the components were hidden away behind all that plastic. Lol
I never had to shim mine and I only run 4350. The biggest issue I've had is when it reverses and will throw a bunch of extra powder. I just live with it and move on, it's infrequent. Like I said, it's faster than me and I like the extra resolution of the FX scale vs. the RCBS Chargemaster I was using. And very little tinkering. I haven't even used since the newest update which supposedly improves its performance. I did add the tip but I've read that it's best to remove it with the latest update.
I finally sold my SuperTrickler. Yesterday I had a last loading session with it and while the bulk dropper is really well done the f-king vibratory tube is really the death knell to the whole system.
I was waiting an approximate of 30-45 seconds for the last kernels to drop and I was observing that the so-called AI was just doing the same thing over and over again: Vibrate the fine tube for 75 ms. Nothing happened? Good, let's be daring today and maybe vibrate the tube for, let's see, maybe 75 ms? Oh darn it, you're SOL with this? I have an idea, maybe vibrate the tube for.... You get it.
The idea behind it is really, really well but the execution is sub par. Some might not like the idea of the whole thing being encased in plastic, for me it is aesthetic and pleasing but to each his own.
The temperature sensitiveness was not that real issue for me, though. Yesterday I had an ambient temperature of 16C (60F) and I did not observe any change in the consistency. Well, twice it thought"hey, the last charge took me a total of 6.3 seconds, let's do something completely different with the vibrating tube and hit that sucker with full speed for longer than before". Why on earth would anyone - apart from Monty Python - think that I am in need for something completely different if the throw before was close to perfection? No one expects the SpanishTrickler?
Long story short: cleaned, wrapped, and posted. Goodbye, maybe it will enlighten another man's day.
I was waiting an approximate of 30-45 seconds for the last kernels to drop and I was observing that the so-called AI was just doing the same thing over and over again: Vibrate the fine tube for 75 ms. Nothing happened? Good, let's be daring today and maybe vibrate the tube for, let's see, maybe 75 ms? Oh darn it, you're SOL with this? I have an idea, maybe vibrate the tube for.... You get it.
The idea behind it is really, really well but the execution is sub par. Some might not like the idea of the whole thing being encased in plastic, for me it is aesthetic and pleasing but to each his own.
The temperature sensitiveness was not that real issue for me, though. Yesterday I had an ambient temperature of 16C (60F) and I did not observe any change in the consistency. Well, twice it thought"hey, the last charge took me a total of 6.3 seconds, let's do something completely different with the vibrating tube and hit that sucker with full speed for longer than before". Why on earth would anyone - apart from Monty Python - think that I am in need for something completely different if the throw before was close to perfection? No one expects the SpanishTrickler?
Long story short: cleaned, wrapped, and posted. Goodbye, maybe it will enlighten another man's day.
There was a software version I worked on that was never released. We were at iteration 3.1.beta110 or greater. Thats right, 100 & fucking 10 (or more) updates trying everything under the sun to get that vibrator to behave. I dropped THOUSANDS of charges testing just that version and those betas. Probably 5000. No dice. Couldn’t get it to work. Never released. Back to version 2.4.1 or whatever it is now
The vibrator is the Achilles heel, the inherent flaw and until Rex gets his head out of his ass and changes it, the stupidtrickler will never be what it could be.
But imagine the difficulty - what kind of mutiny would the guys with the vibrator cause if a new version sans vibrator were released?
The vibrator is the Achilles heel, the inherent flaw and until Rex gets his head out of his ass and changes it, the stupidtrickler will never be what it could be.
But imagine the difficulty - what kind of mutiny would the guys with the vibrator cause if a new version sans vibrator were released?
