Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

jtb33

ArizonaShooting.org
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Jun 15, 2010
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I'm just curious. Suppose that <span style="font-style: italic">today</span>, someone had a very lightly used SWFA SS 5-20X50HD they wanted to sell. Suppose they paid the $999 price for it with the SWFA coupon in the group-buy that has since expired, about 2 weeks ago. That $999 price is no longer available from SWFA. The scope is now at its *normal* price which is $1499.

I'm honestly very curious to see what the used market will be on these scopes, hence my hypothetical-situation-question. I'm sure that some would argue that it would be wrong to sell the item for any more than you paid for it, especially since it's used. Others would argue that it's currently a high-demand item with very limited supply and would thus justify selling it for whatever the market would bear regardless of what you actually paid for it.

DISCLAIMER: No, I do NOT have one to sell, so do not PM me. I'm still waiting for mine just like 80% of the others are, albeit I'm actually waiting <span style="font-style: italic">patiently</span>.
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

You're asking about the difference between market value and perceived value.

If a person bought a scope for a price, the commonly accepted secondhand price is roughly 75-80% of the new price. If a group buy price was involved or not, the price to accept to sell is at the discretion of the seller.

The classy thing to do for the individual in your hypothetical situation would be to sell for 75-80% of the group buy price, but there's nothing stating that it has to be done.
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

If it's new in the box, ask market price. If it has been mounted and shows even the slightest use, honest disclosure and the highest price the market will bear.

If it has been offered to someone already for a set price, the prospect of a bidding war to assuage feelings of cognitive dissonance on the seller's part, then that would be unethical.
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

That's up to you and your conscience. Personally I wouldn't do it but only because Frank and SWFA put this together for Hiders. In any other scenario where I bought something at a good price that I could flip and make 30-40% profit on, I have no problem doing that. If I have the cash that someone needs and they are willing to sell it for said cash, then my selling price reflects market value and not my purchasing price.
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

I think you will see lots of them up for sale down the road. Even though the group buy was for SH, it was widely spread on a dozen other boards with no control other than using the SH500 discount code.

Probably a pile of them sold at a $500 discount just for the purpose of later sale.

Not me, can't wait to mount mine up, and probably should have bought another.
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

It would be worth whatever the market will bear. Cost to the seller is irrelevant. If an idividual was given one as a gift, would that mean that if he offered it for sale for $500.00 he would be trying to cut a fat hog? Of course not.

Value is determined by the intersection of supply/demand and price/comparative performance. You can't go to SWFA tomorrow and buy one. Therefore, if you want one immediately, not only is the $999.00 figure irrelevant but so is the current figure of $1499.00.
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

Apparently, about 1/4 people here on the 'Hide disagree with your assessment.

Personally, I think it's "worth" whatever the market will bear; whatever price someone will buy it for.
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

jtb, I hope the 24% that voted the second choice have a couple of the FN SPR actions from CDNN that are no longer available. I would be happy to pay them the $349.99, plus shipping.
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

I was curious as to whether individuals who bought at the group buy price were going to try to make a windfall out of it. I guess this thread answers my questions.

This is why many bought two or three of them. They could sell the others at full retail and get the third for free. It's pretty shitty in my opinion.
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: swage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was curious as to whether individuals who bought at the group buy price were going to try to make a windfall out of it. I guess this thread answers my questions.

This is why many bought two or three of them. They could sell the others at full retail and get the third for free. It's pretty shitty in my opinion. </div></div>

Not a capitalist, eh?
wink.gif


Let me further my take on this: SWFA sold a TON of these at the discounted $999 price. I bet they would have sold 80% LESS if they sold them at $1499 "retail" price when they came out. I bought two at $999. I probably wouldn't have bought any at $1499. Would they still be a popular scope at a $1499 release price? Sure - since they had the endorsement of many of the well-known shooters on this site, but there wouldn't have been even close to the amount sold. Now that SWFA is getting a TON of these into others' hands, assuming that everyone else gives their reviews as good as the others have, selling them at $1499 retail will be much easier for them to do. It was a great marketing move.

If the retail price on these remains at $1499, then the used market for this optic will likely be in the $1300 range for a "like new" scope once all the pending orders have been filled and their availability is like any other scope.

The used price should be whatever the market will bear and shouldn't have any bearing on what someone paid for it. Do you think that if I had one of these scopes in my hand right now, brand new in the box, that someone would pay me $1200 for it, knowing that I paid $1K for it? I bet it would be gone in less than 24 hours in the classifieds.
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jtb33</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: swage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was curious as to whether individuals who bought at the group buy price were going to try to make a windfall out of it. I guess this thread answers my questions.

This is why many bought two or three of them. They could sell the others at full retail and get the third for free. It's pretty shitty in my opinion. </div></div>

Not a capitalist, eh?
wink.gif


Let me further my take on this: SWFA sold a TON of these at the discounted $999 price. I bet they would have sold 80% LESS if they sold them at $1499 "retail" price when they came out. I bought two at $999. I probably wouldn't have bought any at $1499. Would they still be a popular scope at a $1499 release price? Sure - since they had the endorsement of many of the well-known shooters on this site, but there wouldn't have been even close to the amount sold. Now that SWFA is getting a TON of these into others' hands, assuming that everyone else gives their reviews as good as the others have, selling them at $1499 retail will be much easier for them to do. It was a great marketing move.

If the retail price on these remains at $1499, then the used market for this optic will likely be in the $1300 range for a "like new" scope once all the pending orders have been filled and their availability is like any other scope.

The used price should be whatever the market will bear and shouldn't have any bearing on what someone paid for it. Do you think that if I had one of these scopes in my hand right now, brand new in the box, that someone would pay me $1200 for it, knowing that I paid $1K for it? I bet it would be gone in less than 24 hours in the classifieds. </div></div>

It has nothing to do with capitalism. You're taking advantage of Frank and SWFA and this site in general. He didnt set this group buy up so you could sell yours for a profit. He set it up to help others who probably couldnt afford the extra $500 to get a quality product at a discounted price. Since you came asking for opinions, then I'm sure you realized on some level that it wasnt ethical to use this group buy as a financial gain. But go ahead and make your $300 bucks. You've lost my respect and probably the respect of those who put the group buy in motion.
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: swage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It has nothing to do with capitalism. You're taking advantage of Frank and SWFA and this site in general. He didnt set this group buy up so you could sell yours for a profit. He set it up to help others who probably couldnt afford the extra $500 to get a quality product at a discounted price. Since you came asking for opinions, then I'm sure you realized on some level that it wasnt ethical to use this group buy as a financial gain. But go ahead and make your $300 bucks. You've lost my respect and probably the respect of those who put the group buy in motion. </div></div>

First off, where did you get the idea that I am selling mine? Was it because I asked a hypothetical question related to it? Wow. Not sure which direction to go with that. Is 1+1 always 3 in your world? Can I get a "jump to conclusion" mat as well? FYI, I do not plan to sell either of the scopes I bought. My question was hypothetical, based out of my curiosity since undoubtedly, some will hit the used scope market eventually.

You should also be aware that everyone who bought one is "taking advantage" of what Frank and SWFA set up for us; that was the entire point of them doing it!

Based on your post, if someone bought one for $999, they better not sell it for a penny more than that, even if it's 2 years down the road, right? Or is there a statute of limitations based on how old it is? If someone bought the same exact scope and paid the normal price of $1499, it's OK if they sell it for $1300, right? Even though both are the exact same scope, one has an intrinsic value that should apparently - according to you - be 50% more than the other, all else being equal. Not sure I understand that "reasoning".

Now, if someone decided to buy 20 of the scopes at $999 and resell them for $1200 each, I can understand why there may be a problem there, and I'm sure SWFA would be able to see that one coming and refuse to sell that many to one individual so as not to allow someone to undercut them on the second-hand market. But that wasn't what I was asking, despite you trying to morph my hypothetical question into something like that. I am not asking about people who are buying to try to flip them for a profit regardless of how you're trying to twist things to make yourself appear holier-than-thou.

It will be interesting to see what these go for when they hit the used market. My guess is that they will sell for more than $1000 on the used market.

Do you have one of those FN SPR actions that I can buy for $349?
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jtb33</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: swage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It has nothing to do with capitalism. You're taking advantage of Frank and SWFA and this site in general. He didnt set this group buy up so you could sell yours for a profit. He set it up to help others who probably couldnt afford the extra $500 to get a quality product at a discounted price. Since you came asking for opinions, then I'm sure you realized on some level that it wasnt ethical to use this group buy as a financial gain. But go ahead and make your $300 bucks. You've lost my respect and probably the respect of those who put the group buy in motion. </div></div>

First off, where did you get the idea that I am selling mine? Was it because I asked a hypothetical question related to it? Wow. Not sure which direction to go with that. Is 1+1 always 3 in your world? Can I get a "jump to conclusion" mat as well? FYI, I do not plan to sell either of the scopes I bought. My question was hypothetical, based out of my curiosity since undoubtedly, some will hit the used scope market eventually.

You should also be aware that everyone who bought one is "taking advantage" of what Frank and SWFA set up for us; that was the entire point of them doing it!

Based on your post, if someone bought one for $999, they better not sell it for a penny more than that, even if it's 2 years down the road, right? Or is there a statute of limitations based on how old it is? If someone bought the same exact scope and paid the normal price of $1499, it's OK if they sell it for $1300, right? Even though both are the exact same scope, one has an intrinsic value that should apparently - according to you - be 50% more than the other, all else being equal. Not sure I understand that "reasoning".

Now, if someone decided to buy 20 of the scopes at $999 and resell them for $1200 each, I can understand why there may be a problem there, and I'm sure SWFA would be able to see that one coming and refuse to sell that many to one individual so as not to allow someone to undercut them on the second-hand market. But that wasn't what I was asking, despite you trying to morph my hypothetical question into something like that. I am not asking about people who are buying to try to flip them for a profit regardless of how you're trying to twist things to make yourself appear holier-than-thou.

It will be interesting to see what these go for when they hit the used market. My guess is that they will sell for more than $1000 on the used market.

Do you have one of those FN SPR actions that I can buy for $349? </div></div>

Thanks for the Economics lesson. You asked for an opinions and I gave you mine. In my opinion up-charging for the scope is wrong. You're not going to sway me. This is different than buying something wholesale to sell at retail. You're in effect taking advantage of the shooting community that put this together for you. There are those here that go out of their way to help others in this sport and then there are those that have the same mind set as you do. If I no longer wanted the scope, I personally would sell it for what I paid and pass along the savings to the next guy who maybe couldn't gather the funds when the group buy was put together. You asked the question for a reason. You wanted to gauge the board and see if you would get any push back from trying to make a buck off your purchase. You're "hypothetical" isn't hypothetical at all. So sell your scope a year from now and make your $300 bucks and STFU. I'll make sure to remind you of your "hypothetical" when you do.

 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

LOL@swage

I am curious about opinions, but it appears that your posts are directed at me for selling a scope... A scope I don't own, and a scope that I wouldn't be selling if I did own one.

Poll is interesting. Looks like the heavy majority believe that the market should drive the price though.
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

doesn't anyone remember what McMillan sold the return stocks for??

You see them all the time in the classified for 3 times that amount.

I've got my SS 5-20 and I'm not selling it. But if I ever need to sell it for some reason, I would most likely price it at exactly what I paid for it. I'm not throwing stones at those that sell theirs for more.
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

Take a look at page #36 of the grp buy thread on the Scope forum. A guy is essentially offering a hunski for someones position in line at the introductary price.

This is the reality of any marketplace that is not controlled by an outside influence (the govt.). It will reach it's own level.
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

if i bought a $1,000 rifle off of a buddy for $300 because he was hurting for money, and sold it for a thousand i can see that as a problem.
buying a scope off of a company that wants to sell a $1500 scope for $1000 to get them out to the public, and selling it for $1300 sounds like good money management. not sure who loses here??? the company got what they were asking for regardless of what you think their intentions were. someone who really wants one will be willing to spend $200 less than msrp to get one. its pretty naive to believe that because someone got a great deal on something that they <span style="text-decoration: underline">have</span> to pass the savings on. i cant believe people are actually upset someone would "want" to make a little money on something like this. any kind of business wouldnt exist without profit. someone call the "wambulance" little johnny didnt get his shiney new toy now he has to pay more for it than billy did.
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: swage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was curious as to whether individuals who bought at the group buy price were going to try to make a windfall out of it. I guess this thread answers my questions.

This is why many bought two or three of them. They could sell the others at full retail and get the third for free. It's pretty shitty in my opinion. </div></div>

I bought two... would not have bought any at 1499.00 and like anything I own, for the right price I would sell one or both... but you will pay through the nose because I like the one that has arrived. I am sure I will like the next one too.
 
Re: Suppose someone had a used SS 5-20x50HD to sell...

I remember buying aa return stock and someone offering me $1000.

It will sell for what someone is willing to pay for it, rather like the stock market.