Suppressors Supressor Newbie

[BigRed308]

Hey guys,

Pretty sure I am going to buy my first suppressor. Im leaning toward the TB ultra 7 for a Howa 1500 in 308. I am not set on TB but strongly leaning that way. I also have a 16" AR that I do some precision work with but nothing super tactical like mag dumps. However, the Howa sees the most action. My question is, whether I should go direct thread or CB. I am slightly worried about POI shift from with or without the suppressor. Although, I don't see myself shooting much non-suppressed shooting once I acquire a can. Can anyone explain if the CB has some sort of locking system or is it just a thread system on a muzzle brake. I also have some concerns with accuracy changes. Ive worked quite some time to get the Howa down to 3/8" at 100, so I am slightly worried about groups opening up when throwing on a suppressor. Let me know your thoughts and thanks in advance for the expertise.

Stay Vigilant, and Shoot Straight!

 

[TBACRAY]

CB mount is the way to go. There should be no loss in accuracy and repeatability should be 100%.

 

[BigRed308]

CB mount is the way to go. There should be no loss in accuracy and repeatability should be 100%.

How does the CB mount work? Is there any sort of locking system or is it just threads on the muzzle brake, essentially making it a sort of direct thread? I ask this because I wonder about the suppressor backing off the CB mount some.

 

[BigRed308]

I have a Specwar 762 that I share between a bolt gun and AR15. There is a POI shift bwith and without, but it goes right back when I put the cam back on.

Hey kjeff91,

How large of a POI shift are you seeing?

 

[BigRed308]

Wow, thats a lot more than I was expecting.

 

[Gtscotty]

How does the CB mount work? Is there any sort of locking system or is it just threads on the muzzle brake, essentially making it a sort of direct thread? I ask this because I wonder about the suppressor backing off the CB mount some.

There's no ratcheting mechanical locking mechanism or anything, the can just threads on to the brake's threads and friction locks on to the taper. You shouldn't have any issues with the can shooting loose on a taper mount, lots of manufacturers use them and they work well.

 

[Gtscotty]

As for poi shift between when the can is mounted and when it's not, you're pretty much always going to have some, magnitude depends on mounting method, can weight and barrel length/stiffness. What matters is that the shift is always the same on a given rig each time you mount the suppressor.

 

[samson7x]

I've got a TBAC U7 and see virtually no shift with it on a CB mount.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I've got a U7 that gets taken off and on all the damn time, and it returns to zero every time. The Ultra line are probably the best precision/bolt gun cans on the market.

 

[BigRed308]

Wow, glad to hear such great accuracy out of TB. Definitely see why they are the standard for precision work.

 

[IDbound]

Okay you guys are talking over my head. I think I understand a "direct thread". Just screw on the can to the threaded barrel until tight. But no one has really explained this "CB mount" thing. From the video it looks like it is something that screws onto the rifle threads, then the can screws onto the CB mount? How much is one of these CB mounts?

 

[Dagyo369]

Think the reason ppl run cb mount is so they can still run a brake with just unscrewing the suppressor. And run that brake on all their guns. It’s $150 dollar option vs direct thread I think.

 

[strike33]

Okay you guys are talking over my head. I think I understand a "direct thread". Just screw on the can to the threaded barrel until tight. But no one has really explained this "CB mount" thing. From the video it looks like it is something that screws onto the rifle threads, then the can screws onto the CB mount? How much is one of these CB mounts?

If you buy the CB version it comes with the mount, extra mounts are $125 if i remember correctly

 

[Baron85]

I own the one older thunder beast 30ba. I chose to go with the brake version not for the brake but to use the brake as an adapter for different guns. The 30ba was my first can and with that in mind I wanted to play with it on all the rifles I could, which includes AR’s (1/2” threads), my Sako ( metric threads), my 6.5x47 (5/8 threads), and at one time I had a DTA (3/4” threads). If I would have bought a direct thread I would have had to get all my barrels threaded the same or used adapters which would be a pain.

With all that being said, my next can will be a 6.5 ultra7 and I’m planning on direct thread. I never shoot my rifles that accept suppressors without them, and I have a few “general use” cans now and want a dedicated can for hunting.

As far as the point of impact shift all of my cans induce some amount of shift, usually around an inch or 2 if i remember. The same can on different guns created different amounts of shift too. I don’t shoot with out the cans so can’t give you exact measurements. I tried it a few times a long time ago just to see.

Last thing, the way the CB mount works is a tapered Shoulder at the rear of the brake and a matching taper in the back of the suppressor. When you thread the can onto the brake the 2 tapers make contact which helps center the can and then creates friction which hold the can in place. More surface area equals more friction which the taper create more surface area. Here is a picture to help you visualize.

 

[Precision Underground]

I'll hook you up with one of these once you decide what you want! I have a laced version with kevlar cord as well.
PrecisionUndergroundRifleGear.com

 

[IDbound]

Thanks for all the information but another stupid question. I understand how a brake works. But if you put one inside a can, does it not function properly? Then your primary advantage is that you regain the ability to go between your guns that all have breaks??
If will be easier for me as all my guns have the same thread patterns.

 

[briang7511]

i started with the TB brake on 2 different rifles with an ultra 7 and 9. Its like the brake becomes part of the can once you put it on. you dont notice the brake. I now use the Area 419 adapters and brakes which are more effective. I can switch from brake to cans from the 2 rifles with the 419 adapters and there is no change at 1k. i can even swap cans with no change. Rifles were also built by area 419. TB makes the best can out there, 419 just makes it better and more versatile.

 

[Baron85]

If the suppressor is installed onto the brake, the brake is not going to reduce recoil since the gasses are not being vented into the air to reduce recoil, they are being vented into the can. The suppressor still reduced recoil just not as much as a brake.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

If the suppressor is installed onto the brake, the brake is not going to reduce recoil since the gasses are not being vented into the air to reduce recoil, they are being vented into the can. The suppressor still reduced recoil just not as much as a brake.

And the brake acts as a set of sacrificial baffles to protect the inside of the can from erosion of the first baffle. The direct thread cans just have a mount (can't remember if it's a brake or FH or something different) permanently mounted inside. TBAC can actually convert a direct thread to CB for a small fee.

 

[Strykervet]

How'd 'ya like TBAC chiming in with that first post, huh? That alone oughta lean you the rest of the way!

TBAC's thread over brake is better than using the direct thread for a few reasons, mainly which is the bevel and size of the mount compared to a smaller direct thread and a narrow flat shoulder. So yeah, the brakes are better than direct thread. Shit sure has changed, even in the last decade. Mostly with mounts. There is no lock on the brake and it's the closest you can get to a direct thread without any of the problems of direct thread.

I'd get TBAC and not look back. I have 3 of 'em, a 30CB9 I use on my .300BLK SBR I keep handy, a 6.5 Ultra 9 and a .30 Ultra 5. The Ultra is basically peerless in the industry right now. I'm not aware of them having a serious competitor. If you're not doing mag dumps (and even if you are but within reason) this is the can for you. Hell, everyone ought to have at least one TBAC in their collection because they're that good. It WILL have a use. Oh, and as you've seen with that first post, they're peerless in CS. They'll discuss problems and square you away right here in the open in front of everybody. Good people, nothing to hide.

Elite Iron offers a similar setup in SS. Thread over brake, etc. They will align the mount and can TDC if you request it. Quality stuff, they do great work. Prices are lower because they use SS. They're a lot heavier than TBAC though. I do like 'em for their large bore cans though, for .50 and such they make a good can at a good price.

KAC is also another good one but it's expensive and not many folks buy into that setup so I won't go into it. But if you have or plan on getting an SR25, they make a really great can that stand alone. Optimized in practically every aspect.

 

[Kylejohn33]

Does anyone know if the CB weighs more than DT version on any Ultra series? I’d like to know the weight of the can plus brake weight vs just the can weight of the DT.

 

[Longbow06]

Does anyone know if the CB weighs more than DT version on any Ultra series? I’d like to know the weight of the can plus brake weight vs just the can weight of the DT.

The DT version weighs the same as the CB + brake. They are machined the same, the DT is a CB that has a brake semi-permanently thread locked inside. TBAC can convert an existing Ultra from one configuration to the other for a nominal shop fee.

 

[Longbow06]

The CB has two huge advantages over the DT. One, tighter lockup due to the larger bearing surface area. Second, each brake acts as a thread adapter. My Ultra 9 CB swaps between my AI (M18x1.5 thread), Badger Ordnance and Rem 700 (5/8x24 thread) and AR-15s (1/2x28 thread).
TBAC makes the best precision rifle cans on the market. Buy one in confidence.

 

[Kylejohn33]

Yea if they weigh the exact same I don’t see why I wouldn’t go CB. I was thinking going DT mainly to save weight.

 

[SDet]

Yea if they weigh the exact same I don’t see why I wouldn’t go CB. I was thinking going DT mainly to save weight.

The dt will be a hair lighter, single port brake vs 2 port. Less than half an ounce.

 

[Longbow06]

Thank you for the clarification. I had forgotten that detail.

 

[eric.goodwin.376]

I'll hook you up with one of these once you decide what you want! I have a laced version with kevlar cord as well.
PrecisionUndergroundRifleGear.com
View attachment 7007068

Those look great I’ll hit you up when my cans are in

 

[Precision Underground]

Those look great I’ll hit you up when my cans are in

Happy to set you up!

 

[littlepod]

Reviving an old thread - I have an Ultra 9 CB coming, and I want to be able to easily switch between my Brake and the suppressor. Now when shooting with a Brake I prefer to have some of my larger brakes for PRS. Running a Gen2 Shot Caller right now as it directs blast away from me, which is why I switched away from the Hellfire.

For times when I want to run the suppressor, I can easily just unmount the shot caller, so I kind of just want a Direct Thread Ultra 9. Can I just torque in the CB brake into the suppressor and just direct thread the entire unit? It looks like that's what TB does with their DT model, so it should be fine for me to do the same thing.

 

[22-Dasher]

Reviving an old thread - I have an Ultra 9 CB coming, and I want to be able to easily switch between my Brake and the suppressor. Now when shooting with a Brake I prefer to have some of my larger brakes for PRS. Running a Gen2 Shot Caller right now as it directs blast away from me, which is why I switched away from the Hellfire.

For times when I want to run the suppressor, I can easily just unmount the shot caller, so I kind of just want a Direct Thread Ultra 9. Can I just torque in the CB brake into the suppressor and just direct thread the entire unit? It looks like that's what TB does with their DT model, so it should be fine for me to do the same thing.

If you don’t want to send your can back to TBAC to change it to DT then in my eyes you have two good options. Option one would be get the Area 419 suppressor Mount and their muzzle brake. Makes it super easy to go back and forth between brake and suppressor. OR, you could get the TBAC flash hider because that has flats that will allow you to wrench it on barrel and/or off of the suppressor. But if you are really going to only run the suppressor in the rifle and never a muzzle brake then just send the can back and have it converted to DT.

 

[littlepod]

If you don’t want to send your can back to TBAC to change it to DT then in my eyes you have two good options. Option one would be get the Area 419 suppressor Mount and their muzzle brake. Makes it super easy to go back and forth between brake and suppressor. OR, you could get the TBAC flash hider because that has flats that will allow you to wrench it on barrel and/or off of the suppressor. But if you are really going to only run the suppressor in the rifle and never a muzzle brake then just send the can back and have it converted to DT.

Thanks I have a hellfire brake and was going to go the suppressor mount way. I don't like how the hellfire brake directs so much blast towards the shooter, so that's why I switched over to the shot caller brake. I figure I'd shoot the suppressor when I'm practicing, but for PRS matches I will most likely swap to a brake just to have the shorter length and increased recoil reduction.

 

[aero22abflight]

Thanks I have a hellfire brake and was going to go the suppressor mount way. I don't like how the hellfire brake directs so much blast towards the shooter, so that's why I switched over to the shot caller brake. I figure I'd shoot the suppressor when I'm practicing, but for PRS matches I will most likely swap to a brake just to have the shorter length and increased recoil reduction.

Interesting, i see lots of PRS shooter use their suppressors during matches rather than use their brakes. I wonder what's the advantage over each other...

 

[littlepod]

Suppressor advantage is you don't hit in the with a lot of blast. If you're shooting in a tunnel/tube, a brake is going to wreak havoc on your head.

If you're shooting a team match you also don't want blast on your spotter either, so a suppressor helps there too.

Disadvantages - suppressor is 7" more length. And from a pure recoil reduction, I think something like a suppressor reduces recoil by 30% whereas a muzzle brake is close to 50%.

 

[aero22abflight]

Suppressor advantage is you don't hit in the with a lot of blast. If you're shooting in a tunnel/tube, a brake is going to wreak havoc on your head.

If you're shooting a team match you also don't want blast on your spotter either, so a suppressor helps there too.

Disadvantages - suppressor is 7" more length. And from a pure recoil reduction, I think something like a suppressor reduces recoil by 30% whereas a muzzle brake is close to 50%.

So I guess it just decision on the applications of the match and the operation of how you shoot. If you add weight to the rifle with a suppressor, do you think that would minimize the recoil between that 30% and 50%?

 

[littlepod]

I don't believe so.. a Thunderbeast Ultra is only 11oz. So .75 pounds. The rifle sitting at 20 pounds going to 21 pounds isn't going to change that much. For me weight is generally a matter of balance as I don't want to be fighting imbalanced weight on a barricade. Also a muzzle brake is like 4oz, so really you're only gaining 7oz when swapping muzzle brake with suppressor.

 

[aero22abflight]

I don't believe so.. a Thunderbeast Ultra is only 11oz. So .75 pounds. The rifle sitting at 20 pounds going to 21 pounds isn't going to change that much. For me weight is generally a matter of balance as I don't want to be fighting imbalanced weight on a barricade. Also a muzzle brake is like 4oz, so really you're only gaining 7oz when swapping muzzle brake with suppressor.

Sorry, I shouldof wrote it differently. I meant to say put an extra weights tuning system into a MPA chassis maybe adds another 3-5lbs to the rifle. With that added weight, will a suppressed rifle reduce recoil between 30% and 50%?

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Sorry, I shouldof wrote it differently. I meant to say put an extra weights tuning system into a MPA chassis maybe adds another 3-5lbs to the rifle. With that added weight, will a suppressed rifle reduce recoil between 30% and 50%?

Maybe, but even then a brake still wins. The only good compromise I have found is the Area 419 Maverick. I started off running a can, then shot with brakes for years, and now I am running the Maverick.