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Suppressors Surefire Titanium Suppressor
- Thread starter Voltage
- Start date
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
I have only handled them. They are quit a bit lighter then the others but as far as suppression...... Ive only heard one Ti can on a semi auto and I think a heavier alloy or steel is almost mandatory. I know it CAN be done and people are doing it but my preference is just stick to inconel or steel. PLus they are super expensive!
I have only handled them. They are quit a bit lighter then the others but as far as suppression...... Ive only heard one Ti can on a semi auto and I think a heavier alloy or steel is almost mandatory. I know it CAN be done and people are doing it but my preference is just stick to inconel or steel. PLus they are super expensive!
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
considering that SF's steel cans are more expensive that alot of the titanium cans out their i'd be scared to see the price.
The material the unit is made of has little bering on how well it suppresses , that come frome a good effecient desgine
considering that SF's steel cans are more expensive that alot of the titanium cans out their i'd be scared to see the price.
The material the unit is made of has little bering on how well it suppresses , that come frome a good effecient desgine
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">considering that SF's steel cans are more expensive that alot of the titanium cans out their i'd be scared to see the price.
The material the unit is made of has little bering on how well it suppresses , that come frome a good effecient desgine </div></div>
Actually that is wrong. In comparison I will use the AAC Titan. They have a Ti model and a steel model. While the Ti is very nice, QD mount, extremely light weight, it is obviously more pronounced when fired. It has a high pitch ring to it. The steel can is more quiet to my ears producing a more dull thud then the Ti can. AAC even says the steel can is a lot more quiet, by 6db in fact.
Ti heats up much quicker and in the suppressor world, heat is your worst enemy. Like a race car or diesel truck, heat is no good. While Ti will cool very quickly I just don't think they are the best option for a platform that sees high volumes of fire. Most manufacturers that I have talked with even say the same things. I am not saying you cant do it, I am simply saying its not my first choice. I will go with proven and hard use cans on my semi auto rigs.
The material is a huge factor in its performance. Its density and strength have everything to do with suppression and durability. 2nd in line being the baffle stack and how it was designed and installed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">considering that SF's steel cans are more expensive that alot of the titanium cans out their i'd be scared to see the price.
The material the unit is made of has little bering on how well it suppresses , that come frome a good effecient desgine </div></div>
Actually that is wrong. In comparison I will use the AAC Titan. They have a Ti model and a steel model. While the Ti is very nice, QD mount, extremely light weight, it is obviously more pronounced when fired. It has a high pitch ring to it. The steel can is more quiet to my ears producing a more dull thud then the Ti can. AAC even says the steel can is a lot more quiet, by 6db in fact.
Ti heats up much quicker and in the suppressor world, heat is your worst enemy. Like a race car or diesel truck, heat is no good. While Ti will cool very quickly I just don't think they are the best option for a platform that sees high volumes of fire. Most manufacturers that I have talked with even say the same things. I am not saying you cant do it, I am simply saying its not my first choice. I will go with proven and hard use cans on my semi auto rigs.
The material is a huge factor in its performance. Its density and strength have everything to do with suppression and durability. 2nd in line being the baffle stack and how it was designed and installed.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> While the Ti is very nice, QD mount, extremely light weight, it is obviously more pronounced when fired. It has a high pitch ring to it. The steel can is more quiet to my ears producing a more dull thud then the Ti can. AAC even says the steel can is a lot more quiet, by 6db in fact. </div></div>
aac says this, IMO Ti is quieter to me than my cyclone, mk11 mod 0,or any SS can i've shot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Ti heats up much quicker and in the suppressor world, heat is your worst enemy. Like a race car or diesel truck, heat is no good. While Ti will cool very quickly I just don't think they are the best option for a platform that sees high volumes of fire. Most manufacturers that I have talked with even say the same things. I am not saying you cant do it, I am simply saying its not my first choice. I will go with proven and hard use cans on my semi auto rigs.
</div></div>
I've noticed this as well, it warms fast, but cools alot faster than steel, like you said not good for high volume fire, but for one shot accuracy, cant beat em.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> While the Ti is very nice, QD mount, extremely light weight, it is obviously more pronounced when fired. It has a high pitch ring to it. The steel can is more quiet to my ears producing a more dull thud then the Ti can. AAC even says the steel can is a lot more quiet, by 6db in fact. </div></div>
aac says this, IMO Ti is quieter to me than my cyclone, mk11 mod 0,or any SS can i've shot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Ti heats up much quicker and in the suppressor world, heat is your worst enemy. Like a race car or diesel truck, heat is no good. While Ti will cool very quickly I just don't think they are the best option for a platform that sees high volumes of fire. Most manufacturers that I have talked with even say the same things. I am not saying you cant do it, I am simply saying its not my first choice. I will go with proven and hard use cans on my semi auto rigs.
</div></div>
I've noticed this as well, it warms fast, but cools alot faster than steel, like you said not good for high volume fire, but for one shot accuracy, cant beat em.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
I have done a side by side comparison of my steel Titan vs a friends Ti Titan, and the difference in sound is very obvious. What you give up in weight, you give up in suppression in that size caliber. I do have Ti 30 cal cans that are more quiet then some steel cans. But its a lot of density calculations to determine thickness, baffle size, internal volume, and so on to make the can produce a tolerable sound.
I have done a side by side comparison of my steel Titan vs a friends Ti Titan, and the difference in sound is very obvious. What you give up in weight, you give up in suppression in that size caliber. I do have Ti 30 cal cans that are more quiet then some steel cans. But its a lot of density calculations to determine thickness, baffle size, internal volume, and so on to make the can produce a tolerable sound.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
..
KYS338, I worry that you and I keep butting heads. Not meant to, but you are incorrect and correct.
You are correct that, baffles, volume, chamber placement, presence of QD hardware within the can, etc. all some together to acheive tonality.
You are incorrect that Ti has any characteristics that give it inferior frequency results. "What you give up in weight, you give up in suppression in that size caliber" is not correct. One must return to the build as one would in the correct statement you made above.
The issue of internal ring in early Ti cans is well documented. We have spoken about it in these very threads. But that issue and its solution (everything from QD brake design to inadequate wall thickness at weld, to improper chamber sizing off the primaries) was first attempted to be resolved with a SS wrap. That was then, now? Great Ti cans actually seem to have a superior residual frequency, at least to my ears. Makes mounting some of my S and SS cans just about impossible...
With the pending collapse of the suppression industry, my guess is that by the end of this year, your either making Ti cans or your out of business. Prices are about to fall, quality is going up, materials will be superb.
..
KYS338, I worry that you and I keep butting heads. Not meant to, but you are incorrect and correct.
You are correct that, baffles, volume, chamber placement, presence of QD hardware within the can, etc. all some together to acheive tonality.
You are incorrect that Ti has any characteristics that give it inferior frequency results. "What you give up in weight, you give up in suppression in that size caliber" is not correct. One must return to the build as one would in the correct statement you made above.
The issue of internal ring in early Ti cans is well documented. We have spoken about it in these very threads. But that issue and its solution (everything from QD brake design to inadequate wall thickness at weld, to improper chamber sizing off the primaries) was first attempted to be resolved with a SS wrap. That was then, now? Great Ti cans actually seem to have a superior residual frequency, at least to my ears. Makes mounting some of my S and SS cans just about impossible...
With the pending collapse of the suppression industry, my guess is that by the end of this year, your either making Ti cans or your out of business. Prices are about to fall, quality is going up, materials will be superb.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the pending collapse of the suppression industry? </div></div>
Another inquiring mind here too.
Care to expand RT?
SS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the pending collapse of the suppression industry? </div></div>
Another inquiring mind here too.
Care to expand RT?
SS
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
..
You sure you want me to take this thread off into that direction? Ok, fast...IMO
AAC, SUREFIRE, AWC, SAS, YHK, KNIGHTS, QUICKSILVER, SHARK, SILENCERCO, GEMTECH, SRT, SWR, JET (Mike), SOUNTECH, OPS INC, FISHER, JOHN GUNS, and a whole lot more.
All chasing around 17,000 (steady now, not growing) new annual registered units, less than a quarter of that probably military. Add to that an almost complete collapse of margins at the dealer. You guys have any idea what the margin on a low end can is? There are really only four houses that provide any margin worth actually selling to to their dealers, only two of those that a dealer can really make money with. And those dealers? Those dealers are getting forced already to buy bigger “packages” to make those margins. So what do they do? They actually buy, say ten units of brand X, model S and sell only three of them at the right margin, then they just dump the other 7 to get their cash flow back. End result? Market, shot to shit. Remember my piece on black rifles….think that on a Four Loko binge lead by some companies already reeling from their own restructuring.
The smart folks, most conservative business managers? Well, using the best equipment to make the best designs with the best materials...they will hang on. Aluminum .22 suppressors that are threaded together with glue and were sold for $325 in 2010. Next year? The same .22 can, if it is going to sell, will be made of steel and titanium (blast/primary), no aluminum, and it might retail for $395. What do you think you will be charged for an all aluminum, glue it together, can then?
Great news for the consummer, new models, better materials, superior technologies, lower pricing.. and why I've been telling folks to hold off as long as they can for the next gen. cans. In a year or two, they will be sold by far fewer viable companies. Same cycle, only wilder.
Back to the new Ti unit topic though..
..
You sure you want me to take this thread off into that direction? Ok, fast...IMO
AAC, SUREFIRE, AWC, SAS, YHK, KNIGHTS, QUICKSILVER, SHARK, SILENCERCO, GEMTECH, SRT, SWR, JET (Mike), SOUNTECH, OPS INC, FISHER, JOHN GUNS, and a whole lot more.
All chasing around 17,000 (steady now, not growing) new annual registered units, less than a quarter of that probably military. Add to that an almost complete collapse of margins at the dealer. You guys have any idea what the margin on a low end can is? There are really only four houses that provide any margin worth actually selling to to their dealers, only two of those that a dealer can really make money with. And those dealers? Those dealers are getting forced already to buy bigger “packages” to make those margins. So what do they do? They actually buy, say ten units of brand X, model S and sell only three of them at the right margin, then they just dump the other 7 to get their cash flow back. End result? Market, shot to shit. Remember my piece on black rifles….think that on a Four Loko binge lead by some companies already reeling from their own restructuring.
The smart folks, most conservative business managers? Well, using the best equipment to make the best designs with the best materials...they will hang on. Aluminum .22 suppressors that are threaded together with glue and were sold for $325 in 2010. Next year? The same .22 can, if it is going to sell, will be made of steel and titanium (blast/primary), no aluminum, and it might retail for $395. What do you think you will be charged for an all aluminum, glue it together, can then?
Great news for the consummer, new models, better materials, superior technologies, lower pricing.. and why I've been telling folks to hold off as long as they can for the next gen. cans. In a year or two, they will be sold by far fewer viable companies. Same cycle, only wilder.
Back to the new Ti unit topic though..
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..
You sure you want me to take this thread off into that direction? Ok, fast...IMO
AAC, SUREFIRE, AWC, SAS, YHK, KNIGHTS, QUICKSILVER, SHARK, SILENCERCO, GEMTECH, SRT, SWR, JET (Mike), SOUNTECH, OPS INC, FISHER, JOHN GUNS, and a whole lot more.
<span style="font-weight: bold">All chasing around 17,000 (steady now, not growing) new annual registered units</span>, less than a quarter of that probably military. Add to that an almost complete collapse of margins at the dealer. You guys have any idea what the margin on a low end can is? There are really only four houses that provide any margin worth actually selling to to their dealers, only two of those that a dealer can really make money with. And those dealers? Those dealers are getting forced already to buy bigger “packages” to make those margins. So what do they do? They actually buy, say ten units of brand X, model S and sell only three of them at the right margin, then they just dump the other 7 to get their cash flow back. End result? Market, shot to shit. Remember my piece on black rifles….think that on a Four Loko binge lead by some companies already reeling from their own restructuring.
The smart folks, most conservative business managers? Well, using the best equipment to make the best designs with the best materials...they will hang on. Aluminum .22 suppressors that are threaded together with glue and were sold for $325 in 2010. Next year? The same .22 can, if it is going to sell, will be made of steel and titanium (blast/primary), no aluminum, and it might retail for $395. What do you think you will be charged for an all aluminum, glue it together, can then?
Great news for the consummer, new models, better materials, superior technologies, lower pricing.. and why I've been telling folks to hold off as long as they can for the next gen. cans. In a year or two, they will be sold by far fewer viable companies. Same cycle, only wilder.
Back to the new Ti unit topic though..
</div></div>
I think that will be the real deciding factor. Personally, I see suppressors becoming more popular and more common in the shooting community. The discovery channel is going to have a show starting in February(?) that features a silencer manufacturer, and myth busters just shot an episode with silencerco. I see a lot of room for growth in this industry. Depending on how long the war lasts and how much they take off in the private sector will probably determine a lot more who stays in business and who leaves.
Just my 2 cents!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..
You sure you want me to take this thread off into that direction? Ok, fast...IMO
AAC, SUREFIRE, AWC, SAS, YHK, KNIGHTS, QUICKSILVER, SHARK, SILENCERCO, GEMTECH, SRT, SWR, JET (Mike), SOUNTECH, OPS INC, FISHER, JOHN GUNS, and a whole lot more.
<span style="font-weight: bold">All chasing around 17,000 (steady now, not growing) new annual registered units</span>, less than a quarter of that probably military. Add to that an almost complete collapse of margins at the dealer. You guys have any idea what the margin on a low end can is? There are really only four houses that provide any margin worth actually selling to to their dealers, only two of those that a dealer can really make money with. And those dealers? Those dealers are getting forced already to buy bigger “packages” to make those margins. So what do they do? They actually buy, say ten units of brand X, model S and sell only three of them at the right margin, then they just dump the other 7 to get their cash flow back. End result? Market, shot to shit. Remember my piece on black rifles….think that on a Four Loko binge lead by some companies already reeling from their own restructuring.
The smart folks, most conservative business managers? Well, using the best equipment to make the best designs with the best materials...they will hang on. Aluminum .22 suppressors that are threaded together with glue and were sold for $325 in 2010. Next year? The same .22 can, if it is going to sell, will be made of steel and titanium (blast/primary), no aluminum, and it might retail for $395. What do you think you will be charged for an all aluminum, glue it together, can then?
Great news for the consummer, new models, better materials, superior technologies, lower pricing.. and why I've been telling folks to hold off as long as they can for the next gen. cans. In a year or two, they will be sold by far fewer viable companies. Same cycle, only wilder.
Back to the new Ti unit topic though..
</div></div>
I think that will be the real deciding factor. Personally, I see suppressors becoming more popular and more common in the shooting community. The discovery channel is going to have a show starting in February(?) that features a silencer manufacturer, and myth busters just shot an episode with silencerco. I see a lot of room for growth in this industry. Depending on how long the war lasts and how much they take off in the private sector will probably determine a lot more who stays in business and who leaves.
Just my 2 cents!
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
..
Are you talking about this?
http://corporate.discovery.com/discovery-news/discovery-channels-all-new-series-sons-of-guns-wil/
http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/
Oh yea, that ought to do wonders, oh yea, it will clean the whole industry out... like giving an elephant a broken glass enema!
The stories I could tell you!
..
Are you talking about this?
http://corporate.discovery.com/discovery-news/discovery-channels-all-new-series-sons-of-guns-wil/
http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/
Oh yea, that ought to do wonders, oh yea, it will clean the whole industry out... like giving an elephant a broken glass enema!
The stories I could tell you!
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
I think you should have to pay the $200 for a tax stamp to shoot without a suppressor.
Once you get acustom to shooting suppressed, "Straght Pipe" guns sound obnoxious.
I think you should have to pay the $200 for a tax stamp to shoot without a suppressor.
Once you get acustom to shooting suppressed, "Straght Pipe" guns sound obnoxious.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..
KYS338, I worry that you and I keep butting heads. Not meant to, but you are incorrect and correct.
You are correct that, baffles, volume, chamber placement, presence of QD hardware within the can, etc. all some together to acheive tonality.
You are incorrect that Ti has any characteristics that give it inferior frequency results. "What you give up in weight, you give up in suppression in that size caliber" is not correct. One must return to the build as one would in the correct statement you made above.
The issue of internal ring in early Ti cans is well documented. We have spoken about it in these very threads. But that issue and its solution (everything from QD brake design to inadequate wall thickness at weld, to improper chamber sizing off the primaries) was first attempted to be resolved with a SS wrap. That was then, now? Great Ti cans actually seem to have a superior residual frequency, at least to my ears. Makes mounting some of my S and SS cans just about impossible...
With the pending collapse of the suppression industry, my guess is that by the end of this year, your either making Ti cans or your out of business. Prices are about to fall, quality is going up, materials will be superb.
</div></div>
We arent butting heads. But you can't argue with a side by side test in which steel cans have come out over Ti cans in sound reduction. The Titan is proof of that. The affordable tanks that come out of YHM are more quiet to me, then my Gemtech Sandstorm. YHM is QD and the Gemtech is thread on. I think every can is different.
So you are trying to say that due to thickness (thickness translates to weight) of the Ti, placement of those parts and baffles (strategically of course) would have nothing to do with sound? That is WRONG. I have heard cans being demoed at ranges in which thinner walled Ti cans were obviously louder in sound then others. I have heard thick walled Ti cans suppress better then steel cans. There are to many examples out there to list them all and to many deciding factors in which make a can more quiet then its predecessors.
I think we will have to disagree on some points, its human nature. What I have seen first hand is proof enough. I agree that a well made Ti can is the cats ass but a thin walled can which is lacking baffles just is a waste of money.
Ask yourself, for what you get, would you pay AAC $3500.00 for that Ti Titan? Or spend half of that, for a little more weight and a thread on can that drops you another 6db?!
Ill go steel in that case.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..
KYS338, I worry that you and I keep butting heads. Not meant to, but you are incorrect and correct.
You are correct that, baffles, volume, chamber placement, presence of QD hardware within the can, etc. all some together to acheive tonality.
You are incorrect that Ti has any characteristics that give it inferior frequency results. "What you give up in weight, you give up in suppression in that size caliber" is not correct. One must return to the build as one would in the correct statement you made above.
The issue of internal ring in early Ti cans is well documented. We have spoken about it in these very threads. But that issue and its solution (everything from QD brake design to inadequate wall thickness at weld, to improper chamber sizing off the primaries) was first attempted to be resolved with a SS wrap. That was then, now? Great Ti cans actually seem to have a superior residual frequency, at least to my ears. Makes mounting some of my S and SS cans just about impossible...
With the pending collapse of the suppression industry, my guess is that by the end of this year, your either making Ti cans or your out of business. Prices are about to fall, quality is going up, materials will be superb.
</div></div>
We arent butting heads. But you can't argue with a side by side test in which steel cans have come out over Ti cans in sound reduction. The Titan is proof of that. The affordable tanks that come out of YHM are more quiet to me, then my Gemtech Sandstorm. YHM is QD and the Gemtech is thread on. I think every can is different.
So you are trying to say that due to thickness (thickness translates to weight) of the Ti, placement of those parts and baffles (strategically of course) would have nothing to do with sound? That is WRONG. I have heard cans being demoed at ranges in which thinner walled Ti cans were obviously louder in sound then others. I have heard thick walled Ti cans suppress better then steel cans. There are to many examples out there to list them all and to many deciding factors in which make a can more quiet then its predecessors.
I think we will have to disagree on some points, its human nature. What I have seen first hand is proof enough. I agree that a well made Ti can is the cats ass but a thin walled can which is lacking baffles just is a waste of money.
Ask yourself, for what you get, would you pay AAC $3500.00 for that Ti Titan? Or spend half of that, for a little more weight and a thread on can that drops you another 6db?!
Ill go steel in that case.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..
Are you talking about this?
http://corporate.discovery.com/discovery-news/discovery-channels-all-new-series-sons-of-guns-wil/
http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/
Oh yea, that ought to do wonders, oh yea, it will clean the whole industry out... like giving an elephant a broken glass enema!
The stories I could tell you!
</div></div>
I do believe that show (and mythbusters) will raise public awareness to silencer ownership and I also believe that there will be more people looking to buy silencers once they are educated on their legality and benefits.
Red jacket firearms has been active over on silencertalk asking for members help in what they should be addressing on the show. They may not be a big time producer, but they do strike me as seeing this as a golden opportunity to educate the general public.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..
Are you talking about this?
http://corporate.discovery.com/discovery-news/discovery-channels-all-new-series-sons-of-guns-wil/
http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/
Oh yea, that ought to do wonders, oh yea, it will clean the whole industry out... like giving an elephant a broken glass enema!
The stories I could tell you!
</div></div>
I do believe that show (and mythbusters) will raise public awareness to silencer ownership and I also believe that there will be more people looking to buy silencers once they are educated on their legality and benefits.
Red jacket firearms has been active over on silencertalk asking for members help in what they should be addressing on the show. They may not be a big time producer, but they do strike me as seeing this as a golden opportunity to educate the general public.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
..
The folks that are supposed to know..now they are asking Silencertalk...well I feel a whole lot better now..
Its about the same great feeling I felt when H&K decided the SP89 was just what the market needed. I'm calling a top. Buckle up when every <span style="text-decoration: underline">BLANK</span> finally gets it.."They can own WHAT!?! In MY state?!?"
..
The folks that are supposed to know..now they are asking Silencertalk...well I feel a whole lot better now..
Its about the same great feeling I felt when H&K decided the SP89 was just what the market needed. I'm calling a top. Buckle up when every <span style="text-decoration: underline">BLANK</span> finally gets it.."They can own WHAT!?! In MY state?!?"
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
While there are many different opinions on style, manufacturer, material, mounting systems, etc. we can all agree that there is a lot of ignorance on the laws and benefits of owning suppressors. I think silencer owners on this board, AR-15.com, silencertalk, NFAtalk, etc all would have a united message on the laws and benefits of suppressor ownership. I think a more educated public would benefit all of us. I'm personally tired of explaining to people that my silencers are legal, I am not a hit man, and I have a legitimate need to have them.
While there are many different opinions on style, manufacturer, material, mounting systems, etc. we can all agree that there is a lot of ignorance on the laws and benefits of owning suppressors. I think silencer owners on this board, AR-15.com, silencertalk, NFAtalk, etc all would have a united message on the laws and benefits of suppressor ownership. I think a more educated public would benefit all of us. I'm personally tired of explaining to people that my silencers are legal, I am not a hit man, and I have a legitimate need to have them.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
..
No, I am not saying that. You got it backwards.
Remember the "cut your Ti out of solid blocks to get the right wall thickness to allow for deep penetration welding when you realize that crap foreign Ti walls are not thick enough to support the new baffles or cut thermal radiation sinks" guy, that was me. Every quality design and properly executed Ti can I've seen as of late is superb.
If the Titan dB metering was important and if it was not as low as another brand "x", you and I would be asking a whole series of questions that would have little to do with the materials, especially if it was 6 dB as THAT is approx a doubling of preceived sound.
..
No, I am not saying that. You got it backwards.
Remember the "cut your Ti out of solid blocks to get the right wall thickness to allow for deep penetration welding when you realize that crap foreign Ti walls are not thick enough to support the new baffles or cut thermal radiation sinks" guy, that was me. Every quality design and properly executed Ti can I've seen as of late is superb.
If the Titan dB metering was important and if it was not as low as another brand "x", you and I would be asking a whole series of questions that would have little to do with the materials, especially if it was 6 dB as THAT is approx a doubling of preceived sound.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
Im not disputing that a top shelf Ti can trumps about anything else. Im just saying in the past, with poorly designed Ti cans the advantage to saving money AND getting more DB reduction was a no brainer for me.
And as of late, I think the Ti cans have leveled out in price. What used to be a high dollar can is getting slightly more affordable. But, lets face it. Ti will always be expensive.
Im patiently awaiting the new AAC 762SDN to see what an all inconel baffle system offers on a 308 bolt rifle! Not to mention it will be great for the 300 Blackout upper I have on the way.
Im not disputing that a top shelf Ti can trumps about anything else. Im just saying in the past, with poorly designed Ti cans the advantage to saving money AND getting more DB reduction was a no brainer for me.
And as of late, I think the Ti cans have leveled out in price. What used to be a high dollar can is getting slightly more affordable. But, lets face it. Ti will always be expensive.
Im patiently awaiting the new AAC 762SDN to see what an all inconel baffle system offers on a 308 bolt rifle! Not to mention it will be great for the 300 Blackout upper I have on the way.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
..
Mentioning that your looking forward to buying brand XXX in the middle of a thread about the new upcoming YYY means your OK in my book!
Still, you would really enjoy using a truly outstanding .30 can, at least once in your life....
..
..
Mentioning that your looking forward to buying brand XXX in the middle of a thread about the new upcoming YYY means your OK in my book!
Still, you would really enjoy using a truly outstanding .30 can, at least once in your life....
..
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
Isn't a Jet / ThunderBeast all inconel internals ?
My Tac Ops Ti/Stainless cleared and is in my hands, having heard one of Mike Rs from mid 1990 on a 300WM I looking forward to trying it, but it's heavy. 24 oz, compared to 13oz for my of my other Ti cans.
Hoping to add something different to the stable in 2011, only Form 4 left to clear is my TiRant, so I am good to add other, maybe a fancy AWC we hear so much about.
My list:
338 Jet
30 Jet short
30 Jet long
Shark
Sandstorm
ThunderBeast
Surefire 762ss
AAC 762SD
Tac Ops
5.56
Jet
Gemtech Halo
Ops Inc 12th
.22 Outback
I have a good cross section and the Ti still work the best, and frankly with a precision rifle with full loads, who honestly cares about 3db, I care about ACCURACY .
At 800 yards away do you think you can tell the difference... its people who do nothing but plink on a square range who preach sound differences. I care about POA / POI and accuracy from center... 1st round to last round. Been buying suppressors for a bit now and I have yet to feel the need to purchase a sound meter for my personal kit so I can crow about my silencer supremacy
Isn't a Jet / ThunderBeast all inconel internals ?
My Tac Ops Ti/Stainless cleared and is in my hands, having heard one of Mike Rs from mid 1990 on a 300WM I looking forward to trying it, but it's heavy. 24 oz, compared to 13oz for my of my other Ti cans.
Hoping to add something different to the stable in 2011, only Form 4 left to clear is my TiRant, so I am good to add other, maybe a fancy AWC we hear so much about.
My list:
338 Jet
30 Jet short
30 Jet long
Shark
Sandstorm
ThunderBeast
Surefire 762ss
AAC 762SD
Tac Ops
5.56
Jet
Gemtech Halo
Ops Inc 12th
.22 Outback
I have a good cross section and the Ti still work the best, and frankly with a precision rifle with full loads, who honestly cares about 3db, I care about ACCURACY .
At 800 yards away do you think you can tell the difference... its people who do nothing but plink on a square range who preach sound differences. I care about POA / POI and accuracy from center... 1st round to last round. Been buying suppressors for a bit now and I have yet to feel the need to purchase a sound meter for my personal kit so I can crow about my silencer supremacy
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't a ThunderBeast all inconel internals ? </div></div>
The 30P-1 all titanium. It's also excellent on the meter.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1900633&page=all
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Size and weight they are all Titanium and very close</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't a ThunderBeast all inconel internals ? </div></div>
The 30P-1 all titanium. It's also excellent on the meter.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1900633&page=all
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Size and weight they are all Titanium and very close</div></div>
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
i forsee a surge in thermal imaging cameras.....
or more aptly put....the savvy buyer will wish to be informed as to how that technology really works.....
i forsee a surge in thermal imaging cameras.....
or more aptly put....the savvy buyer will wish to be informed as to how that technology really works.....
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
My bad, on the TBAC, maybe it is just my Jets that is inconel...
Thermal or Sound meter... at this point, what is the point. I have in excess of 15k through the Jet and it's still dandy, I think I got my dollars back.
My bad, on the TBAC, maybe it is just my Jets that is inconel...
Thermal or Sound meter... at this point, what is the point. I have in excess of 15k through the Jet and it's still dandy, I think I got my dollars back.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..
Mentioning that your looking forward to buying brand XXX in the middle of a thread about the new upcoming YYY means your OK in my book!
Still, you would really enjoy using a truly outstanding .30 can, at least once in your life....
.. </div></div>
I use and own a lot of cans. I get my fill of top notch 30cal cans daily.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..
Mentioning that your looking forward to buying brand XXX in the middle of a thread about the new upcoming YYY means your OK in my book!
Still, you would really enjoy using a truly outstanding .30 can, at least once in your life....
.. </div></div>
I use and own a lot of cans. I get my fill of top notch 30cal cans daily.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't a Jet / ThunderBeast all inconel internals ?
My Tac Ops Ti/Stainless cleared and is in my hands, having heard one of Mike Rs from mid 1990 on a 300WM I looking forward to trying it, but it's heavy. 24 oz, compared to 13oz for my of my other Ti cans.
Hoping to add something different to the stable in 2011, only Form 4 left to clear is my TiRant, so I am good to add other, maybe a fancy AWC we hear so much about.
My list:
338 Jet
30 Jet short
30 Jet long
Shark
Sandstorm
ThunderBeast
Surefire 762ss
AAC 762SD
Tac Ops
5.56
Jet
Gemtech Halo
Ops Inc 12th
.22 Outback
I have a good cross section and the Ti still work the best, and frankly with a precision rifle with full loads, who honestly cares about 3db, I care about ACCURACY .
At 800 yards away do you think you can tell the difference... its people who do nothing but plink on a square range who preach sound differences. I care about POA / POI and accuracy from center... 1st round to last round. Been buying suppressors for a bit now and I have yet to feel the need to purchase a sound meter for my personal kit so I can crow about my silencer supremacy </div></div>
I don't own a sound meter. Did you not test 3 cans all on a meter and one of the Ti cans (Sandstorm) suffer from a problem of the 1st round being off from the following shots? How does that rate on your accuracy to sound test? We can all argue for weeks about what material does what and whats the best. Everyone has a different opinion on what works the best for their rifle and budget. So I guess I am a little confused as to why you seem to be harping on us that only shoot targets and are concerned for what sound and performance we are getting for our hard earned money? You said you care most about POI shift and hits from center to center but you own a Ti can that obviously has a problem with that..... I am a bit lost on your point that your trying to make.
I don't care about "what is the most quiet". Nor does it matter what it sounds like down range. We are shooting targets. They don't have ears. This is about repeatable accuracy and preserving our hearing. Not to mention cutting down on the noise pollution.
We are all in it for the main goal of accuracy. I happen to believe in try it once, if you don't like it, get rid of it. So, I buy suppressors from across the board. If I don't like them I get rid of them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't a Jet / ThunderBeast all inconel internals ?
My Tac Ops Ti/Stainless cleared and is in my hands, having heard one of Mike Rs from mid 1990 on a 300WM I looking forward to trying it, but it's heavy. 24 oz, compared to 13oz for my of my other Ti cans.
Hoping to add something different to the stable in 2011, only Form 4 left to clear is my TiRant, so I am good to add other, maybe a fancy AWC we hear so much about.
My list:
338 Jet
30 Jet short
30 Jet long
Shark
Sandstorm
ThunderBeast
Surefire 762ss
AAC 762SD
Tac Ops
5.56
Jet
Gemtech Halo
Ops Inc 12th
.22 Outback
I have a good cross section and the Ti still work the best, and frankly with a precision rifle with full loads, who honestly cares about 3db, I care about ACCURACY .
At 800 yards away do you think you can tell the difference... its people who do nothing but plink on a square range who preach sound differences. I care about POA / POI and accuracy from center... 1st round to last round. Been buying suppressors for a bit now and I have yet to feel the need to purchase a sound meter for my personal kit so I can crow about my silencer supremacy </div></div>
I don't own a sound meter. Did you not test 3 cans all on a meter and one of the Ti cans (Sandstorm) suffer from a problem of the 1st round being off from the following shots? How does that rate on your accuracy to sound test? We can all argue for weeks about what material does what and whats the best. Everyone has a different opinion on what works the best for their rifle and budget. So I guess I am a little confused as to why you seem to be harping on us that only shoot targets and are concerned for what sound and performance we are getting for our hard earned money? You said you care most about POI shift and hits from center to center but you own a Ti can that obviously has a problem with that..... I am a bit lost on your point that your trying to make.
I don't care about "what is the most quiet". Nor does it matter what it sounds like down range. We are shooting targets. They don't have ears. This is about repeatable accuracy and preserving our hearing. Not to mention cutting down on the noise pollution.
We are all in it for the main goal of accuracy. I happen to believe in try it once, if you don't like it, get rid of it. So, I buy suppressors from across the board. If I don't like them I get rid of them.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
Lowlight, I happen to know that your not on active duty and I think its a bit silly to think that your targets hear you. Sound moderation is for the shooters ears in your case and mine, so lets not act like mall ninjas!
Lowlight, I happen to know that your not on active duty and I think its a bit silly to think that your targets hear you. Sound moderation is for the shooters ears in your case and mine, so lets not act like mall ninjas!
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Voltage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lowlight, I happen to know that your not on active duty and I think its a bit silly to think that your targets hear you. Sound moderation is for the shooters ears in your case and mine, so lets not act like mall ninjas! </div></div>
Slow down chief. Frank is not a mall ninja by far, he is a trunk hooker! I'm just not getting his point of view as we are not shooting live targets....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Voltage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lowlight, I happen to know that your not on active duty and I think its a bit silly to think that your targets hear you. Sound moderation is for the shooters ears in your case and mine, so lets not act like mall ninjas! </div></div>
Slow down chief. Frank is not a mall ninja by far, he is a trunk hooker! I'm just not getting his point of view as we are not shooting live targets....
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
Well the sound saving from the test was about 3db difference across the board. So the debate hovers around 3db. Sure every can I own has it's own tone, but they all tip the scale over 130db, so exactly why is there this hyper focus. To save your own hearing you still need protection.
The issue with the Sandstorm has resolved itself with use, and hate to tell you, based on the reputation of others, either through lack of testing or the fact they had no issue, no one ever pointed to a problem with the Sandstorm. I found it, I reported it, and I continued to record the results. I have a lot of products I would probably never own if not for this site.
The only reason I brought out the sound meter is because people expect it, mainly because they are all too loud as I stated, their report effects the microphone on the camera giving them all the same volume, simply registering the different sustain tone once the peak recovers on the camera.
If you take the time to read anything I actually write, I clearly state of the cans used, the ThunderBeast & Shark are best performers, I have yet to hear or see it different. That is based on my stated objectives, but also on the sound produced, and heard not just by me, but others.
I buy my cans, my opinion is mine, not a bought and paid for opinion. While you can debate the ear saving to the shooter, know what you are debating, a supersonic crack over 130db, with an average diversion of about 3 to 6db, not a whole lot more and certainly not much less. So spare me,
Precision rifles are for precision, you don't see me playing with sub sonic loads, so we can all stand around and ooo & ahh like a 4th of July display. I focus on repeatable accuracy downrange. If you don't understand that, well, your not paying attention.
Me a mall ninja, hmm, it never ceases to amaze me.
Well the sound saving from the test was about 3db difference across the board. So the debate hovers around 3db. Sure every can I own has it's own tone, but they all tip the scale over 130db, so exactly why is there this hyper focus. To save your own hearing you still need protection.
The issue with the Sandstorm has resolved itself with use, and hate to tell you, based on the reputation of others, either through lack of testing or the fact they had no issue, no one ever pointed to a problem with the Sandstorm. I found it, I reported it, and I continued to record the results. I have a lot of products I would probably never own if not for this site.
The only reason I brought out the sound meter is because people expect it, mainly because they are all too loud as I stated, their report effects the microphone on the camera giving them all the same volume, simply registering the different sustain tone once the peak recovers on the camera.
If you take the time to read anything I actually write, I clearly state of the cans used, the ThunderBeast & Shark are best performers, I have yet to hear or see it different. That is based on my stated objectives, but also on the sound produced, and heard not just by me, but others.
I buy my cans, my opinion is mine, not a bought and paid for opinion. While you can debate the ear saving to the shooter, know what you are debating, a supersonic crack over 130db, with an average diversion of about 3 to 6db, not a whole lot more and certainly not much less. So spare me,
Precision rifles are for precision, you don't see me playing with sub sonic loads, so we can all stand around and ooo & ahh like a 4th of July display. I focus on repeatable accuracy downrange. If you don't understand that, well, your not paying attention.
Me a mall ninja, hmm, it never ceases to amaze me.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well the sound saving from the test was about 3db difference across the board. So the debate hovers around 3db. Sure every can I own has it's own tone, but they all tip the scale over 130db, so exactly why is there this hyper focus. To save your own hearing you still need protection.
The issue with the Sandstorm has resolved itself with use, and hate to tell you, based on the reputation of others, either through lack of testing or the fact they had no issue, no one ever pointed to a problem with the Sandstorm. I found it, I reported it, and I continued to record the results. I have a lot of products I would probably never own if not for this site.
The only reason I brought out the sound meter is because people expect it, mainly because they are all too loud as I stated, their report effects the microphone on the camera giving them all the same volume, simply registering the different sustain tone once the peak recovers on the camera.
If you take the time to read anything I actually write, I clearly state of the cans used, the ThunderBeast & Shark are best performers, I have yet to hear or see it different. That is based on my stated objectives, but also on the sound produced, and heard not just by me, but others.
I buy my cans, my opinion is mine, not a bought and paid for opinion. While you can debate the ear saving to the shooter, know what you are debating, a supersonic crack over 130db, with an average diversion of about 3 to 6db, not a whole lot more and certainly not much less. So spare me,
Precision rifles are for precision, you don't see me playing with sub sonic loads, so we can all stand around and ooo & ahh like a 4th of July display. I focus on repeatable accuracy downrange. If you don't understand that, well, your not paying attention.
Me a mall ninja, hmm, it never ceases to amaze me.
</div></div>
Did I dispute what we are here for? No....
We are discussing the advantages and disadvantages of Ti as a material for a suppressor.
I own cans in all different make, models, and materials. I am not biased to one or the other, just in favor of the one that works. Your post reads as you are saying I am only buying them for the wow factor. Not true, I got into them to one, spare my hearing, not bother the multiple horse farms that surround us, and to make it easier to shoot when I wanted to, without ear pro. I have bought cans from a lot of different makers. Do they all SOUND the same, NO. Do they reduce to the same levels, sure.
Big difference between sound and actual DB rating.
I wont dispute that the Sandstorm, Shark, and TBAC are all 3 excellent cans. I own all 3 being the Shark is a Tigershark I still think it is a top tier suppressor.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well the sound saving from the test was about 3db difference across the board. So the debate hovers around 3db. Sure every can I own has it's own tone, but they all tip the scale over 130db, so exactly why is there this hyper focus. To save your own hearing you still need protection.
The issue with the Sandstorm has resolved itself with use, and hate to tell you, based on the reputation of others, either through lack of testing or the fact they had no issue, no one ever pointed to a problem with the Sandstorm. I found it, I reported it, and I continued to record the results. I have a lot of products I would probably never own if not for this site.
The only reason I brought out the sound meter is because people expect it, mainly because they are all too loud as I stated, their report effects the microphone on the camera giving them all the same volume, simply registering the different sustain tone once the peak recovers on the camera.
If you take the time to read anything I actually write, I clearly state of the cans used, the ThunderBeast & Shark are best performers, I have yet to hear or see it different. That is based on my stated objectives, but also on the sound produced, and heard not just by me, but others.
I buy my cans, my opinion is mine, not a bought and paid for opinion. While you can debate the ear saving to the shooter, know what you are debating, a supersonic crack over 130db, with an average diversion of about 3 to 6db, not a whole lot more and certainly not much less. So spare me,
Precision rifles are for precision, you don't see me playing with sub sonic loads, so we can all stand around and ooo & ahh like a 4th of July display. I focus on repeatable accuracy downrange. If you don't understand that, well, your not paying attention.
Me a mall ninja, hmm, it never ceases to amaze me.
</div></div>
Did I dispute what we are here for? No....
We are discussing the advantages and disadvantages of Ti as a material for a suppressor.
I own cans in all different make, models, and materials. I am not biased to one or the other, just in favor of the one that works. Your post reads as you are saying I am only buying them for the wow factor. Not true, I got into them to one, spare my hearing, not bother the multiple horse farms that surround us, and to make it easier to shoot when I wanted to, without ear pro. I have bought cans from a lot of different makers. Do they all SOUND the same, NO. Do they reduce to the same levels, sure.
Big difference between sound and actual DB rating.
I wont dispute that the Sandstorm, Shark, and TBAC are all 3 excellent cans. I own all 3 being the Shark is a Tigershark I still think it is a top tier suppressor.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
If my testing of the 3 cans in the video show a peak over 130db, is that "ear safe", meaning do you think that is low enough to use without ear pro and to save your ears...
the difference here is, what you perceive and what the meters say the sound is doing.. sure behind the rifle, you can lower that number a bit, but let's be honest here is 136db, which I think they all hovered around technically "ear safe" enough to not need ear pro ?
And if you're doing it for, "the folks around you" doesn't that subscribe to exactly what I said about what is heard downrange ? Probably much more than 800 yards away ?
Tell me, is it actual user ear safe if the peak is over 130db, continued use without ear pro ?
The peak is one thing, the sustained "tone" is what you perceive and what makes one can sound "better" or quieter than the other. Sure we can distinguish 3db, but are you really saving your ears if one reads 139db and the other reads 136db ?
If my testing of the 3 cans in the video show a peak over 130db, is that "ear safe", meaning do you think that is low enough to use without ear pro and to save your ears...
the difference here is, what you perceive and what the meters say the sound is doing.. sure behind the rifle, you can lower that number a bit, but let's be honest here is 136db, which I think they all hovered around technically "ear safe" enough to not need ear pro ?
And if you're doing it for, "the folks around you" doesn't that subscribe to exactly what I said about what is heard downrange ? Probably much more than 800 yards away ?
Tell me, is it actual user ear safe if the peak is over 130db, continued use without ear pro ?
The peak is one thing, the sustained "tone" is what you perceive and what makes one can sound "better" or quieter than the other. Sure we can distinguish 3db, but are you really saving your ears if one reads 139db and the other reads 136db ?
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
I agree with you. But my neighbors are almost 360 degrees around us. So I just did it along with very tall berms and thick clustering of trees to breakup the sound.
Is it safe to fire at 136 db all day with no ear protection? Probably not. Sustained high decibel noise is actually more damaging then one loud noise. I learned that from car audio a long time ago.
LIke I said..... DB rating and tone of the can are all perceived by the shooter differently.
I agree with you. But my neighbors are almost 360 degrees around us. So I just did it along with very tall berms and thick clustering of trees to breakup the sound.
Is it safe to fire at 136 db all day with no ear protection? Probably not. Sustained high decibel noise is actually more damaging then one loud noise. I learned that from car audio a long time ago.
LIke I said..... DB rating and tone of the can are all perceived by the shooter differently.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
You're missing the point, I went back and reviewed the numbers, the peak was over 140db, the sustained reading was around 136db... sorry but while I will grant you continuous sound in that range is bad, 100 peaks over 140 isn't any better for you...
Does it help your neighbors, absolutely just like I said, the downrange results at distance are gonna have benefits, but you are fooling yourself into thinking you are working within "ear safe" zones with any of them, except maybe a .22. Full power loads still have a full load sound... it's supersonic, what I think people are really doing is arguing what should be subsonic effects with supersonic rounds.
You're missing the point, I went back and reviewed the numbers, the peak was over 140db, the sustained reading was around 136db... sorry but while I will grant you continuous sound in that range is bad, 100 peaks over 140 isn't any better for you...
Does it help your neighbors, absolutely just like I said, the downrange results at distance are gonna have benefits, but you are fooling yourself into thinking you are working within "ear safe" zones with any of them, except maybe a .22. Full power loads still have a full load sound... it's supersonic, what I think people are really doing is arguing what should be subsonic effects with supersonic rounds.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Tac Ops Ti/Stainless cleared and is in my hands, having heard one of Mike Rs from mid 1990 on a 300WM I looking forward to trying it, but it's heavy. 24 oz, compared to 13oz for my of my other Ti cans.</div></div>
I would really like to hear your opinion on these suppressors. I have two that Mike has finished and should ship to the class 3 dealer, soon I hope. Then the form 4 wait.
Jamie
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Tac Ops Ti/Stainless cleared and is in my hands, having heard one of Mike Rs from mid 1990 on a 300WM I looking forward to trying it, but it's heavy. 24 oz, compared to 13oz for my of my other Ti cans.</div></div>
I would really like to hear your opinion on these suppressors. I have two that Mike has finished and should ship to the class 3 dealer, soon I hope. Then the form 4 wait.
Jamie
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
..
In many ways, this thread is really quite remarkable. A great deal of foundation truths are being covered. For many of the elders, there was never any real expectation that, while supersonic projectiles were being used, suppression was about ear safe performance. Rather, with flight signature occuring, it was about something else all together, it was about work at HEL dealing with the issue of what was then coined "the area of certain location." Whereas everyone concluded that report/flash/kick reduction at the operator was was a benefit, the focus was not on the operator's ears, but on all those trying to identify the point of origin. In other words, where did that shot come from? That differed dramatically from important, but vastly different work surrounding the "silencing" of what was called "prime three" for clandestine work. Requiring subsonic rounds, single shot actions and superb blast cans, there was less attention given to operator location. Why? Subsonic loads made distance work unlikely.
Nowadays its muddled, most talk about dB readings without a sense as to origin location. Why should they? They have no requirement. So what we see are arguments surrounding blast readings, almost all metered with the conflicting effects of supersonic ballistics occurring simultaneously. Perhaps the only remaining artifact? Some taking the time to explain why dB, in the absence of duration and frequency, is of little importance to an audience increasingly with a deaf ear (literally and figuratively.) Know this, including duration and frequency is not for the benefit of a meter placed close at hand, nor is it to further protect the operator's ears, it addresses something else all together, touched on by Frank. Namely, what is heard at distance and whether that sound is "firearm like." Today its all about what is occuring behind the receiver, the one place where, with supersonic projectiles, one thing is certain...everyone behind the receiver knows with high probability what direction that shot came from.
..
In many ways, this thread is really quite remarkable. A great deal of foundation truths are being covered. For many of the elders, there was never any real expectation that, while supersonic projectiles were being used, suppression was about ear safe performance. Rather, with flight signature occuring, it was about something else all together, it was about work at HEL dealing with the issue of what was then coined "the area of certain location." Whereas everyone concluded that report/flash/kick reduction at the operator was was a benefit, the focus was not on the operator's ears, but on all those trying to identify the point of origin. In other words, where did that shot come from? That differed dramatically from important, but vastly different work surrounding the "silencing" of what was called "prime three" for clandestine work. Requiring subsonic rounds, single shot actions and superb blast cans, there was less attention given to operator location. Why? Subsonic loads made distance work unlikely.
Nowadays its muddled, most talk about dB readings without a sense as to origin location. Why should they? They have no requirement. So what we see are arguments surrounding blast readings, almost all metered with the conflicting effects of supersonic ballistics occurring simultaneously. Perhaps the only remaining artifact? Some taking the time to explain why dB, in the absence of duration and frequency, is of little importance to an audience increasingly with a deaf ear (literally and figuratively.) Know this, including duration and frequency is not for the benefit of a meter placed close at hand, nor is it to further protect the operator's ears, it addresses something else all together, touched on by Frank. Namely, what is heard at distance and whether that sound is "firearm like." Today its all about what is occuring behind the receiver, the one place where, with supersonic projectiles, one thing is certain...everyone behind the receiver knows with high probability what direction that shot came from.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're missing the point, I went back and reviewed the numbers, the peak was over 140db, the sustained reading was around 136db... sorry but while I will grant you continuous sound in that range is bad, 100 peaks over 140 isn't any better for you...
Does it help your neighbors, absolutely just like I said, the downrange results at distance are gonna have benefits, but you are fooling yourself into thinking you are working within "ear safe" zones with any of them, except maybe a .22. Full power loads still have a full load sound... it's supersonic, what I think people are really doing is arguing what should be subsonic effects with supersonic rounds. </div></div>
Frank..... I AGREED with you in my earlier post!!!! I do not condone shooting without ear pro, even if suppressed. I wear the molded in plugs and they do great with a can. Sometimes I can barely tell if I have fired a shot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're missing the point, I went back and reviewed the numbers, the peak was over 140db, the sustained reading was around 136db... sorry but while I will grant you continuous sound in that range is bad, 100 peaks over 140 isn't any better for you...
Does it help your neighbors, absolutely just like I said, the downrange results at distance are gonna have benefits, but you are fooling yourself into thinking you are working within "ear safe" zones with any of them, except maybe a .22. Full power loads still have a full load sound... it's supersonic, what I think people are really doing is arguing what should be subsonic effects with supersonic rounds. </div></div>
Frank..... I AGREED with you in my earlier post!!!! I do not condone shooting without ear pro, even if suppressed. I wear the molded in plugs and they do great with a can. Sometimes I can barely tell if I have fired a shot.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
Anyone who is interested in an actual sound meter to test the cans will have the opportunity of buying one in the EE here soon. Maybe even a few of them. I figure they won't last an hour once I post them.
The focus is shifting from one reading to multiple readings and mapping software to provide a 3d real time image of sound reduction. Seriously. This is how it should have been done for quite a while now. Couple that in with frequency measurements with wave mapping and tonal quality will also be taken into account. The end result will blow a lot of minds...
Anyone who is interested in an actual sound meter to test the cans will have the opportunity of buying one in the EE here soon. Maybe even a few of them. I figure they won't last an hour once I post them.
The focus is shifting from one reading to multiple readings and mapping software to provide a 3d real time image of sound reduction. Seriously. This is how it should have been done for quite a while now. Couple that in with frequency measurements with wave mapping and tonal quality will also be taken into account. The end result will blow a lot of minds...
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone who is interested in an actual sound meter to test the cans will have the opportunity of buying one in the EE here soon. Maybe even a few of them. I figure they won't last an hour once I post them.
The focus is shifting from one reading to multiple readings and mapping software to provide a 3d real time image of sound reduction. Seriously. This is how it should have been done for quite a while now. Couple that in with frequency measurements with wave mapping and tonal quality will also be taken into account. The end result will blow a lot of minds... </div></div>
That is awesome. Any idea what price range for the units?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone who is interested in an actual sound meter to test the cans will have the opportunity of buying one in the EE here soon. Maybe even a few of them. I figure they won't last an hour once I post them.
The focus is shifting from one reading to multiple readings and mapping software to provide a 3d real time image of sound reduction. Seriously. This is how it should have been done for quite a while now. Couple that in with frequency measurements with wave mapping and tonal quality will also be taken into account. The end result will blow a lot of minds... </div></div>
That is awesome. Any idea what price range for the units?
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is awesome. Any idea what price range for the units? </div></div>
No idea. Haven't made them up yet...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is awesome. Any idea what price range for the units? </div></div>
No idea. Haven't made them up yet...
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
Soo...... back to the Surefire Ti can... Called the FA762kt from the 2011 shotshow vid I saw. Any other pics or prices or performance or out time? Am I wasting my money buying the current muzzle breaks now (MB762SSAL/RE) for my two guns hoping to decide on Titanium or alloy later?
Soo...... back to the Surefire Ti can... Called the FA762kt from the 2011 shotshow vid I saw. Any other pics or prices or performance or out time? Am I wasting my money buying the current muzzle breaks now (MB762SSAL/RE) for my two guns hoping to decide on Titanium or alloy later?
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
An update, in every test category the 100% Ti DPW and T.H.O.R. profile envelopes (much thicker than standard Ti tube stock - profiled internal and externals) is quieter than either steel or any earlier Ti/steel wrap ("ring" frequency suppression) design. In other words, the new frequency generated in properly assembled and proportioned Ti cans is unbelievable. Always remember, that Ti will not weld to any steel nor aluminum, Inconel, etc. As a result providing the means to include any other material has very real consequences in regard to the construction integrity, frequency and long term stability of the can. In regard to Ti frequency, the requirements are five fold: Dimensionality/profile of all components (especially the envelope), design of baffles especially diffuser and primary, design and staging of chambers, welding (penetration) and lastly forward purge flow (not just disruption/cleanliness but pressure/heat). These are very low pressure cans and are all direct attachment precision cans. QA (there is no QD) has real issues in both pressure (transitional dwell in the worst place) and tonality in Ti.
.223, 6.5, 6.8 already out the door and .30, ,338 are being run right now.
If the SureFire can is built properly, it should be quieter than any can they have made thus far. Ti is setting a new standard.
As to frequency mapping, 3D tonal representation etc. As has been said for years. dB is almost a complete waste of time when measuring the highest quality cans. Its all about the other two and most critical components, Duration and Frequency. To get it right, understanding which frequencies at what distances is most beneficial also becomes a requirement. One could think about it this way, for far too long some have measured dB at or close to the source when, in fact, the real initiative is to insure that at the terminus and its surrounds only non-firearm "like" frequencies are present. When one goes subsonic, frequency at termination is (or at least should be) immaterial. But supersonic signature itself provides alarm but no directionality, designers have a unique set of initiatives for residual blast frequencies at termination, usually far greater than the point of propagation. Then there is accuracy! All measurements that do not include accuracy are of little importance for precision shooters.
An update, in every test category the 100% Ti DPW and T.H.O.R. profile envelopes (much thicker than standard Ti tube stock - profiled internal and externals) is quieter than either steel or any earlier Ti/steel wrap ("ring" frequency suppression) design. In other words, the new frequency generated in properly assembled and proportioned Ti cans is unbelievable. Always remember, that Ti will not weld to any steel nor aluminum, Inconel, etc. As a result providing the means to include any other material has very real consequences in regard to the construction integrity, frequency and long term stability of the can. In regard to Ti frequency, the requirements are five fold: Dimensionality/profile of all components (especially the envelope), design of baffles especially diffuser and primary, design and staging of chambers, welding (penetration) and lastly forward purge flow (not just disruption/cleanliness but pressure/heat). These are very low pressure cans and are all direct attachment precision cans. QA (there is no QD) has real issues in both pressure (transitional dwell in the worst place) and tonality in Ti.
.223, 6.5, 6.8 already out the door and .30, ,338 are being run right now.
If the SureFire can is built properly, it should be quieter than any can they have made thus far. Ti is setting a new standard.
As to frequency mapping, 3D tonal representation etc. As has been said for years. dB is almost a complete waste of time when measuring the highest quality cans. Its all about the other two and most critical components, Duration and Frequency. To get it right, understanding which frequencies at what distances is most beneficial also becomes a requirement. One could think about it this way, for far too long some have measured dB at or close to the source when, in fact, the real initiative is to insure that at the terminus and its surrounds only non-firearm "like" frequencies are present. When one goes subsonic, frequency at termination is (or at least should be) immaterial. But supersonic signature itself provides alarm but no directionality, designers have a unique set of initiatives for residual blast frequencies at termination, usually far greater than the point of propagation. Then there is accuracy! All measurements that do not include accuracy are of little importance for precision shooters.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
Low light and Rolling Thunder seem in my opinion to be on target. first priority for me is how a suppressor affects bullet strike (Consitant Accuracy)
Metering is being discussed from the wrong end of the range. Set up a meter and video camera from the target to your shooting position (zoomed in) and film what the intended target sees when you drop the hammer. Is there, flash? dust signature?, doubt you will be able to pin point the sound even if you were standing there..
I am concerned most about detection, this is where I see the value of a suppressor.
Low light and Rolling Thunder seem in my opinion to be on target. first priority for me is how a suppressor affects bullet strike (Consitant Accuracy)
Metering is being discussed from the wrong end of the range. Set up a meter and video camera from the target to your shooting position (zoomed in) and film what the intended target sees when you drop the hammer. Is there, flash? dust signature?, doubt you will be able to pin point the sound even if you were standing there..
I am concerned most about detection, this is where I see the value of a suppressor.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't a ThunderBeast all inconel internals ? </div></div>
The 30P-1 all titanium. It's also excellent on the meter.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1900633&page=all
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Size and weight they are all Titanium and very close</div></div>
</div></div>
AMEN. And reading their posts doesn't make you wish for a window to jump out of. Good cans, good people.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't a ThunderBeast all inconel internals ? </div></div>
The 30P-1 all titanium. It's also excellent on the meter.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1900633&page=all
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Size and weight they are all Titanium and very close</div></div>
</div></div>
AMEN. And reading their posts doesn't make you wish for a window to jump out of. Good cans, good people.
Re: Surefire Titanium Suppressor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Flaker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Low light and Rolling Thunder seem in my opinion to be on target. first priority for me is how a suppressor affects bullet strike (Consitant Accuracy)
Metering is being discussed from the wrong end of the range. Set up a meter and video camera from the target to your shooting position (zoomed in) and film what the intended target sees when you drop the hammer. Is there, flash? dust signature?, doubt you will be able to pin point the sound even if you were standing there..
I am concerned most about detection, this is where I see the value of a suppressor.</div></div>
You're gonna love this,
I finished up a video with the DTA Covert and I did exactly this with Cor Bon Subs, and then for the finishing shot, I actually shot at the camera itself -- within 6" in front of it at 200 yards. I shot the first group in the target over the camera then lowered the sights to the camera and dropped it in the dirt right there, it was pretty cool.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Flaker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Low light and Rolling Thunder seem in my opinion to be on target. first priority for me is how a suppressor affects bullet strike (Consitant Accuracy)
Metering is being discussed from the wrong end of the range. Set up a meter and video camera from the target to your shooting position (zoomed in) and film what the intended target sees when you drop the hammer. Is there, flash? dust signature?, doubt you will be able to pin point the sound even if you were standing there..
I am concerned most about detection, this is where I see the value of a suppressor.</div></div>
You're gonna love this,
I finished up a video with the DTA Covert and I did exactly this with Cor Bon Subs, and then for the finishing shot, I actually shot at the camera itself -- within 6" in front of it at 200 yards. I shot the first group in the target over the camera then lowered the sights to the camera and dropped it in the dirt right there, it was pretty cool.
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