Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

[RADcustom]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M16 Extractor + Dremil Tool + Dremil Cut off Wheel + Strategic Cut = no windage knob issues </div></div>

and a remington extractor is good to go as is. or am i missing all the failures caused by them in a maintained rifle? </div></div>

If the action isn't any good, why should the factory extractor be any better?

 

[Edds]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

I thought a Surgeon with a 260 bolt face had a Remington extractor.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Edds</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought a Surgeon with a 260 bolt face had a Remington extractor. </div></div>

it does.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If the action isn't any good, why should the factory extractor be any better? </div></div>

i don't believe the action isn't any good though. in fact, it's my preference for a field rifle.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If the action isn't any good, why should the factory extractor be any better? </div></div>

i don't believe the action isn't any good though. in fact, it's my preference for a field rifle. </div></div>

My bad. I should have used the "sarcasm" font.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My bad. I should have used the "sarcasm" font.

</div></div>

i probably should have picked up on the sarcasm. my bad

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<span style="color: #3333FF"><span style="font-style: italic">Sarcasm font looks like this...</span></span>

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M16 Extractor + Dremil Tool + Dremil Cut off Wheel + Strategic Cut = no windage knob issues </div></div>

and a remington extractor is good to go as is. or am i missing all the failures caused by them in a maintained rifle? </div></div>

Never said anything negative about the 700 or the issued extractor. I have two rifles built on the 700 but they sport PTG bolts. Had a third 700 based rifle but sold it. Never had an issue with extraction but, there are better options in my opinion. The only 700 extraction issues I’ve had have all been on belted cartridges, the .473” bolt face receivers have been good to go.

The 700 vs 591 debate will go on for years to come, some want it, some don’t. While I wouldn’t compare the 700 to a Mauser the 591 in my opinion is stronger and does come with numerous upgraded features compared to the 700. If trying to compare them apples to apples one must add in all the required gunsmithing to bring the 700 up to the 591. If you don’t compare them like that then it’s really apples to oranges.

Like I said, if you have a 700 run it and be happy, if starting from scratch buy custom.

For those that have the Mini M-16 extractor and experiencing problems, my statement still stands.

 

[007notgnimer]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't the Surgeon action developed from the Remington 700, as are the majority of "Custom Actions". Again, nothing wrong with a surgeon action, there great.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M16 Extractor + Dremil Tool + Dremil Cut off Wheel + Strategic Cut = no windage knob issues </div></div>

and a remington extractor is good to go as is. or am i missing all the failures caused by them in a maintained rifle? </div></div>

Never said anything negative about the 700 or the issued extractor. </div></div>

i guess my comment wasn't really directed at you. i was still waiting to hear the "major improvement" of the m16 extractor from the poster i originally responded to.

even after modifying the sako or m16 extractor on a two lug bolt, it's still in the wrong place in my opinion.

 

[SS-8541-dono]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

anyone ever do a tactical bolt knob on a remington 700 and notice voids in the metal or airpockets in the metal? go to surgoens website or read any firearms mag that reviews surgeon actions or call them and ask about what type of metal they use for their actions and have them email you a picture of the steel block the use before they even start making the action and i think this debate will be over unless theres a few people here who will argue that cheap less quality metal and machining are better for making an action.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">anyone ever do a tactical bolt knob on a remington 700 and notice voids in the metal or airpockets in the metal? go to surgoens website or read any firearms mag that reviews surgeon actions or call them and ask about what type of metal they use for their actions and have them email you a picture of the steel block the use before they even start making the action and i think this debate will be over unless theres a few people here who will argue that cheap less quality metal and machining are better for making an action. </div></div>

are you implying that remington actions are inferior because the bolt handles sometimes have casting porosity and in a spot that would never be an issue?

certainly with remington's inferior metal and machining, there are plenty of catastrophic failures to look at.

since you claim the debate is over, did the magazine articles show pictures of the stock remington uses to make their actions?

 

[SS-8541-dono]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

no im suggesting that you get what you pay for and the aprox 7lb
solid piece of 4140 Chrome Moly 38-40Rc steel that is machined to tolerances of .00005 of an inch is better than the remington 700 actions they are turning out by the thousands each day. you can true a 700 actuion and make a really great and accurate rifle i know ive used them in the military and i have them in my gun safe but when its all said and done action to action the surgeon is better there is no rational way of arguing against that fact.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no im suggesting that you get what you pay for and the aprox 7lb
solid piece of 4140 Chrome Moly 38-40Rc steel that is machined to tolerances of .00005 of an inch is better than the remington 700 actions they are turning out by the thousands each day. you can true a 700 actuion and make a really great and accurate rifle i know ive used them in the military and i have them in my gun safe but when its all said and done action to action the surgeon is better there is no rational way of arguing against that fact. </div></div>

what part of the surgeon 591 is held to .00005" and why? what material and hardness is a remington 700 made from since you are comparing?

 

[SS-8541-dono]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

go to surgeons website and do some reading and all of these questions will be answered or just call them i am sure they will be more than happy to inform you of exactly what their process involves and what types of machines they use and to what tolerences they machine the actions to, as for remington im not sure what type of metal they use or to what tolerences they machine the actions to as it is not plastered proudly all over their website like surgeons site does but if you would like to do the research forus and report back to inform us of a higher quality steel and better more controlled tolerences on remingtons part i will be the first to publicly correct my stemant but beings that remington actions need to be trued to unfuck them before they can be made to shoot on par with custom actions i am confident in my staement.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> go to surgeons website and do some reading and all of these questions will be answered or just call them i am sure they will be more than happy to inform you of exactly what their process involves and what types of machines they use and to what tolerences they machine the actions to, as for remington im not sure what type of metal they use or to what tolerences they machine the actions to as it is not plastered proudly all over their website like surgeons site does but if you would like to do the research forus and report back to inform us of a higher quality steel and better more controlled tolerences on remingtons part i will be the first to publicly correct my stemant but beings that remington actions need to be trued to unfuck them before they can be made to shoot on par with custom actions i am confident in my staement. </div></div>


i've never had a remington fail due to the metallurgical properties. have you? have you ever had a remington bolt handle break due to casting porosity?if you are using material or hardness for your "pro-surgeon/anti-remington" stance, at least show how the remington is inferior.

there are plenty of reasons to support surgeon over a remington but if you are going to use metallurgy as your reason, you had better know how and what a remington is made from and why it is inferior. and no, i'm not going to research how and what a remington is made from because i am not the one saying that they are made from inferior metal.

 

[SS-8541-dono]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

again i stand by this statement!

action to action the surgeon is better there is no rational way of arguing against that fact.

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no im suggesting that you get what you pay for and the aprox 7lb
solid piece of 4140 Chrome Moly 38-40Rc steel that is machined to tolerances of .00005 of an inch is better than the remington 700 actions they are turning out by the thousands each day. you can true a 700 actuion and make a really great and accurate rifle i know ive used them in the military and i have them in my gun safe but when its all said and done action to action the surgeon is better there is no rational way of arguing against that fact. </div></div>

Tight tolerances clearances are more often not your friend in field and repeater or utility in this website. The tactical actions are not held to the absolute tolerance capable by equipment. Years ago, before the new model nomenclature, the Surgeon repeater I ordered had an option of target or tactical.

I would have zero worries in the accuracy department with a trued 700 action in trusted gunsmith build. Based off 2 vs. another with Surgeon. In dependability, I have had extractor issues in 700 in my own fault with hot loads and wearing primer pockets. Done right, how many 700 optical base issues are prevalent or reported and trigger, bolt? I have more a barrel profile preference in limited experience vs. the action. Then consider chamber and load. Having loose rails and a square lug isn’t a big deal. A spoken manufacturer brags on it, yet common custom work is to also square the lugs.

Integral recoil lug, optical base, longer barrel tenon; 1-pc bolt, sound good and no complaints with Surgeon. Unless you get real intimate with chamber and load, I believe it is a wash and both of these aspects are resident in barrel. No gain in either augment, my non-gunsmith opinion. There are arguments on the 700 action peripherals or stock equipment for dependability and also aftermarket answers.

More zeros past decimal do not make a great rifle.

 

[SS-8541-dono]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

your right precision machining and precision quality has nothing to do with precision shooting just ask ga precision.

 

[Edds]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

I have a pretty good understanding of mechanical objects. I won't bore you with why, you will just have to blindly accept that.

I am collecting parts for a rifle build and have researched actions fairly well. I believe there are several things that would improve a model 700 action. A one piece bolt, an integral recoil lug, an integral rail mount, and better manufacturing tolerances would all improve the quality. All of these differences exist on a Surgeon. Now if they would use some stainless steel, make the bottoms of them flat, use a model 70 style extractor and ejector, and maybe a little rearward angle to the bolt handle.

As for manufacturing tolerance, don't confuse tolerance with clearance. There isn't anything negative about tight tolerances.

 

[swampbuck]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

SS-8541-dono sure the Surgeon it better. We established that at the beginning. Again the question really is (Is it $700 better.)


It is up to the wants and needs of the buyer.

Do you need the features a Surgeon offers?
Are you willing to pay for them?
Which one will make you sleep better at night? Rifle? Mortgage?
Do you need a one peice rail?
Do you plan on dropping you rifle out of a Huey?
Are you a hobbiest or a professional?

 

[Graham]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">action to action the surgeon is better there is no rational way of arguing against that fact. </div></div>Agreed that the Surgeon is a better action. But I disagree that there are no rational arguments against Surgeons: I've ever seen a Remington in production that had a design issue with ejection port length.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Edds</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As for manufacturing tolerance, don't confuse tolerance with clearance. There isn't anything negative about tight tolerances. </div></div>

So many people don't get this.

 

[cummins cowboy]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

notice the guys saying go with remington aren't the guys who own a custom action. I have both and I can tell you I will never build another custom on a remington. there is just too many options and if you are going to spend $2500-3k on your gun is adding another $300 bucks really that big of deal?? think of all the cost of bedding and stock work building a gun is a package deal why not start if off with the best. if you do that extra $300 bucks will easily come back to you at resale. the last trued remington custom I sold now granted it was not a flashy gun, I really got hammered in order to move it and get it sold. I had spent $500 having the action machined with elliptical cams, firing pin bushed, by greg tannel who actually builds the machines that other gunsmiths use. in the end all that $500 was gone and wasted.

 

[swampbuck]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

I don't think that is true. Several of us own both. I also own a benz but my ford also rides pretty good.

 

[Mute]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

Let's clear up one thing. When you ask if the Surgeon is $700 better than a Remington 700, you're talking about a stock 700 and not one that has been trued, with the addition of a better recoil lug, or a DBM. Add all that stuff in so that you have an apple to apple to comparison, and you no longer have that price difference. In fact, they customized 700 might wind up costing you more.

So to answer that question honestly...is a Surgeon $700 better than a stock 700 action? You bet your ass it is! Is it better than customized 700 that has all the same features? In some areas/features, yes. In others, maybe. Maybe not depending on your preferences.

 

[SS-8541-dono]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

SS-8541-dono sure the Surgeon it better. We established that at the beginning. Again the question really is (Is it $700 better.)

yes it is 700 better

as for how willing someone is to fork up the extra 700 is an altogether different question that can only be answered by the individual, but as i stated before 700 more compared to a off the shelf remington 700 action or even stevens for a worked over remington 700 action the answer is still yes the surgeon is a better action.

 

[bailey1474]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

No doubt. Buying a Surgeon is an investment. You will recoup the extra $$ when you sell it. Not mention it will be MUCH easier to sell.

 

[XxMerlinxX]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's clear up one thing. When you ask if the Surgeon is $700 better than a Remington 700, you're talking about a stock 700 and not one that has been trued, with the addition of a better recoil lug, or a DBM. Add all that stuff in so that you have an apple to apple to comparison, and you no longer have that price difference. In fact, they customized 700 might wind up costing you more.</div></div>

This is simply not the case and has been proven previously in this very thread.

EGW HD Base: $70
Trueing: $250
Recoil Lug: $35
Wally World action after selling off parts: $200

That totals a whopping $555, which is a $755 difference for basically a side bolt release, one piece bolt, and some bigger base screw holes.

 

[lazy21]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XxMerlinxX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Wally World action after selling off parts: $200

</div></div>

I'm in the wrong business if you can get that much for trash parts. How much are these wally world rifles (I've never seen rifles at my local WW)

 

[komifornian]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

I've seen rem 700's for $550 at my WW. Thier gargave but if all you want is the action, why not?

 

[Mute]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XxMerlinxX</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's clear up one thing. When you ask if the Surgeon is $700 better than a Remington 700, you're talking about a stock 700 and not one that has been trued, with the addition of a better recoil lug, or a DBM. Add all that stuff in so that you have an apple to apple to comparison, and you no longer have that price difference. In fact, they customized 700 might wind up costing you more.</div></div>

This is simply not the case and has been proven previously in this very thread.

EGW HD Base: $70
Trueing: $250
Recoil Lug: $35
Wally World action after selling off parts: $200

That totals a whopping $555, which is a $755 difference for basically a side bolt release, one piece bolt, and some bigger base screw holes.</div></div>

Yeah, good luck with that. Come back and show us all an invoice when you've got that all done and manage to find a half-way decent gunsmith to put all that together for you so that your rifle is of equal quality to the Surgeon. We'd all love to see it. Ask anyone who's tried to do so to show you their invoices and rifle.

 

[cummins cowboy]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XxMerlinxX</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's clear up one thing. When you ask if the Surgeon is $700 better than a Remington 700, you're talking about a stock 700 and not one that has been trued, with the addition of a better recoil lug, or a DBM. Add all that stuff in so that you have an apple to apple to comparison, and you no longer have that price difference. In fact, they customized 700 might wind up costing you more.</div></div>

This is simply not the case and has been proven previously in this very thread.

EGW HD Base: $70
Trueing: $250
Recoil Lug: $35
Wally World action after selling off parts: $200

That totals a whopping $555, which is a $755 difference for basically a side bolt release, one piece bolt, and some
bigger base screw holes. </div></div>

so you plan on getting $200 for a factory take off barrel and crappy plastic stock?? try $100 at best. and that is also provided you have means of taking off the old barrel without messing it up. So $300 for a donor action is going to be about as good as it gets. also include sales tax because you bought the $400 wally world gun locally. thats another $50 bucks.

maybe the discussion should be is a custom better than a factory heavy barrel remington 308, most folks build a custom because they want something cooler, better looking, different, and with more capabilities than a factory offering. using a custom action helps with that, do whatever you want its your money, but having done it both ways in the past, my money is going custom every single time, if for no other reason than the snobbish factor.

 

[Mute]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

Something not necessary vs. something not worth it are two different things. You may well not need or want a certain feature, but the cost is there regardless. You don't need an AC in your car in Alaska, but it doesn't mean it's not "worth it." It may be an unnecessary expenditure, but it still cost what it cost.

 

[Turk]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">action to action the surgeon is better there is no rational way of arguing against that fact. </div></div>Agreed that the Surgeon is a better action. But I disagree that there are no rational arguments against Surgeons: I've ever seen a Remington in production that had a design issue with ejection port length. </div></div>
Still waiting for your rationality??? The key word is "production"! Are you saying these Surgeon actions w/ the alleged issues are in production?

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

I'm not getting involved in the Surgeon/ 700 debate. I believe both have a place.

Mute/Cowboy you need to get out more. I know several members here on that only have $200-$400 in their action from WW or pawn shop. They did exactly what Merlin said. Believe it or not Sniper's Hide is not the only place where you can buy and sell rifles/parts.

One now enjoys a Tac-Ops rifle, the other a GAP rifle. Oh I can probably name more.

 

[Barrel Nut]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

My opinion. ....Surgeon=Really hot chick. Remmy=slightly chunky average chick. Surgeon, makes you feel special,and is a lot of fun to fondle and hold. Functionally though they are not that different, at least not so much that my talents can exploit.

 

[Mute]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not getting involved in the Surgeon/ 700 debate. I believe both have a place.

Mute/Cowboy you need to get out more. I know several members here on that only have $200-$400 in their action from WW or pawn shop. They did exactly what Merlin said. Believe it or not Sniper's Hide is not the only place where you can buy and sell rifles/parts.

One now enjoys a Tac-Ops rifle, the other a GAP rifle. Oh I can probably name more.

</div></div>

I don't doubt that. Now tell us how much they're into those rifles for after all is said and done?

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

Didn't Tyler already tell you he had $700 in a Gap 6x47?

 

[Mute]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Didn't Tyler already tell you he had $700 in a Gap 6x47? </div></div>

Right. So let's be honest here. Add in the side bolt release, fluting and a bolt handle and were closer to about a $350 difference vs. a $700 difference. More expensive for the Surgeon, but not quite the same night and day price difference that is being implied.

I won't argue the utility of these features or of the integrated recoil lug, scope rail and one piece bolt(that's another thread altogether), but if you're going to compare, it needs to compared on equal grounds. Seems rather disingenuous to say you're paying a $700 differential for two entirely different beasts.

 

[XxMerlinxX]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mute</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Didn't Tyler already tell you he had $700 in a Gap 6x47? </div></div>

Right. So let's be honest here. Add in the side bolt release, fluting and a bolt handle and were closer to about a $350 difference vs. a $700 difference. More expensive for the Surgeon, but not quite the same night and day price difference that is being implied.

I won't argue the utility of these features or of the integrated recoil lug, scope rail and one piece bolt(that's another thread altogether), but if you're going to compare, it needs to compared on equal grounds. Seems rather disingenuous to say you're paying a $700 differential for two entirely different beasts. </div></div>

Some cosmetic amenities hardly make it an entirely different beast. I got my bolt fluted and a knob put on for $125, plus $30 for the knob, so $150 extra. Fine, there's a $600 difference there. I don't even know if you can add a side bolt release, or why you would want one, but I'm assuming that's not a $600 option if so. That being the case, you won't spend as much or more updating a 700 to the point that it's equal to a surgeon.

Is a Surgeon easier to work on than a 700? Probably. Is it nice to not have to order all the parts and upgrade the receiver? Probably. Is it worth $600 to me? No. Is it impossible to do the same to a 700 on a budget? No.

 

[JB02]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

Comparing a stock R700 to a Surgeon is silly. They are not the same league. To make it fair, it needs to be a comparison between another tactical repeater action, such as a Stiller TAC-30 AW or a Defiance or a Bighorn or a completely loaded R700. Most of the arguments made so far are only about cost and aesthetics. While these are important attributes, they do not tell the whole story.

What is missing from this thread is objective, measurable performance data from comparable actions in the same class (i.e., not your SS benchrest BAT). How do these actions compare against each other in conditions with lots of blowing sand (assume all other aspects of rifle build constant)? Which ones experience the highest rate of failure or have the most issues during matches? Which ones objectively perform the best through a battery of tests?

I would love to conduct and post the results of such an experiment on this thread, as it would deflate a lot of the hot air in it. Since I can't, I will (1) disclaim that I have a 591 on order, (2) say that I agree with Rob01's post above wholeheartedly, (3) recommend that the OP or anyone else purchase what makes them satisfied, and (4) refer the OP to a post made some time ago by lowlight regarding the use of custom actions in several competitions (this is an awesome thread by the way, especially the demilogic video):
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1824082

(I understand that the thread isn't exactly OQE performance data, but it brings up performance attributes that have been conspicuously absent on this thread.)

 

[Møønlight]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If starting from zero I'd always choose a custom receiver over a Remington 700. I've trued and built rifles on more than a couple of 700's and they're great, if you already have one.

<span style="color: #FF0000">By the time you perform all the work required on a 700 to have all the features that a 591 has, you'll be at a higher dollar amount than the 591</span>. Resale of the 591 will always be higher and while the 700 has been trued, it's still a 700.

591's are thicker and much stronger than a 700, the 591 has an extended barrel tenon, integral recoil lug and 20moa scope rail. The 591 is built like a tank and tough as nails.

For what it's worth, Surgeon and Defiance are my go to receivers for builds, I dont even offer a remingotn 700 built rifle unless it's on a customers receiver.

It's a little more money up front but, in this case you do get what you pay for.

Here's a brake down as I see it to make the 700 simular to the 591.

Remingotn 700

Used purchase at a pawn shop $450 / New $550
Receiver Truing $250
Recoil Lug $45
20 MOA Scope Rail $150
Side Bolt stop/release $150
Bolt Knob & install $95/$125
Bolt flutes $85
Hard Face coating on bolt body $85 or up
Shipping to smith $20
Return Shipping $20

$1,350 to $1,480

You be the judge.

When the LH 591's, 1086 & XL come out, I'll have one or more of each if that says anything.

</div></div>

This is 100% true. You'd be a fool not to go with the Surgeon over Remi action. Don't get me wrong, they are still a great action, but so was a VHS video player when they were out.

Good luck with your build,
-Ms

 

[300sniper]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moonshadow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This is 100% true. You'd be a fool not to go with the Surgeon over Remi action. Don't get me wrong, they are still a great action, but so was a VHS video player when they were out.

Good luck with your build,
-Ms </div></div>

i guess i'm a fool and i'll probably never finish near the top in any matches with my 700 based rifles either.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moonshadow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This is 100% true. You'd be a fool not to go with the Surgeon over Remi action. Don't get me wrong, they are still a great action, but so was a VHS video player when they were out.

Good luck with your build,
-Ms </div></div>

i guess i'm a fool and i'll probably never finish near the top in any matches with my 700 based rifles either. </div></div>

See, you didn't use the sarcasm font either.

 

[Edds]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

Place a model 700 action on the bench and take a good look at it. Now ask yourself, Why did they build it like this? If you are honest with yourself you will conclude, Because they couldn't figure out a way to make it any cheaper.

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Edds</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Place a model 700 action on the bench and take a good look at it. Now ask yourself, Why did they build it like this? If you are honest with yourself you will conclude, Because they couldn't figure out a way to make it any cheaper. </div></div>

Thanks I needed a even bigger laugh out of this thread. You do realize that everyone of the custom actions are merely a clone of a Remington with improvments after how many years of research?

 

[Møønlight]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Edds</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Place a model 700 action on the bench and take a good look at it. Now ask yourself, Why did they build it like this? If you are honest with yourself you will conclude, Because they couldn't figure out a way to make it any cheaper. </div></div>

Thanks I needed a even bigger laugh out of this thread. You do realize that everyone of the custom actions are merely a clone of a Remington with improvments after how many years of research?

</div></div>

LOL!

Yes w/ imporovements. My ONLY point in any of this is one simple thing. The price! You're paying the same amount for a tuned 700 that you are going to for a nice aftermarket action such as surgeon. Why not buy the beauty?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i guess i'm a fool and i'll probably never finish near the top in any matches with my 700 based rifles either. </div></div>

You guess you're a fool? California?

I have one R700 based rifle as well. It shoots better than anybody behind it. What does your ability to finish in a match have anything to do with what was talked about here?


Respectfully,
-Ms

 

[300sniper]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
See, you didn't use the sarcasm font either.

</div></div>

<span style="color: #3333FF"><span style="font-style: italic">sorry. and/or my bad.</span></span>

 

[300sniper]

Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moonshadow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You guess you're a fool? California?

I have one R700 based rifle as well. It shoots better than anybody behind it. What does your ability to finish in a match have anything to do with what was talked about here?


Respectfully,
-Ms </div></div>

way to make a point by bringing up the state i was born in and call home. what does that have to do with anything being discussed here?

you are calling me foolish for spending $500+ less out of pocket for an action that will do everything i need an action to do. if not winning more matches, tell me exactly what a surgeon do that my 700 based build with a one piece ptg bolt won't do? justify that cost to me. prove me a fool.