Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

[JayCarver]

Hello, I'm starting to gather parts for my first costom rifle, most likely will be a 223AI. I have it narrowed down to the B.T.A. And the Surgeon 591. Just wanted to know what other peoples opinion are on these two actions? I know this is prob one of those things where you can't go wrong ethier way but just wanted to see what others thought. I searched but couldn't find any direct comparision.

I'm leaning towards the 591, I like the one piece bolt.

Thanks in advance

 

[buckey]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

2 of the best - pick the one that you like better & roll with it!!

 

[jasonk]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

I'd go Surgeon. Both are probably equals, but Surgeon supports the tactical sport and this website so they get my support.

 

[B.Bates]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd go Surgeon. Both are probably equals, but Surgeon supports the tactical sport and this website so they get my support. </div></div>

+ 1


Both are great actions, you can't go wrong with either one.

I have a new BAT in the safe and just recieved a 591. I like the integrated rail and lug in both actions.

To me the BAT is definatley a lil smoother but it is also nitrided, it is also a tigher action as the bolt travels down the raceway.

however i feel my 591 is built like Tank, and it locks up just as tight as the BAT, having both i am going to use the bat for a hunting rifle and run 591's for match rifles now and in the future, you cant argue with Surgeon's reputaion and support.

better act quick and get this action

http://www.bugholes.com/surgeon-actions.php

extra 591's are getting harder to come by

 

[PatrickChewing]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

I love my Surgeon so far. Both actions are at the top of the food chain. Either one would serve you extremely well.

 

[Johnny Sasaki]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd go Surgeon. Both are probably equals, but Surgeon supports the tactical sport and this website so they get my support. </div></div>

+1 for Surgeon as well. Just shot mine for the first time yesterday and couldn't be happier. Steve over there makes one hell of a rifle.

 

[Graham]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

In my experience the BAT is tighter, and the Surgeon looser (on purpose). This is not a defect of the Surgeon, it is designed that way. Likewise, the BAT tactical is looser than the other BAT actions because it, too, is designed for tactical rifles.

The BAT I saw cammed externally on the notch. The Surgeons I have seen had about .040 between the bolt handle and the receiver and no external camming, although I have heard from those who know more about it than I that the Surgeons somehow cam internally and that this, too, is by design.

The Surgeon bolt handle will be shorter, which you may like or dislike depending on your preference.

 

[RedGoat]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

Can't go wrong with either. Surgeon (already stated above) supports the tactical shooting community and the Hide. And to throw another option in the mix (not sure if they make a "tactical" model) I have heard great things about the Bighorn actions.

 

[Trovan]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

Chevy or Ford....or in this case, Ferrari or Lamborghini

I would listen to someone like Shootone (above) who has both.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

Until this past weekend, my choice would have been a Surgeon---then I got a little time behind one of the new BAT tacticals.

I ordered a BAT build last night.

The BAT is BY FAR the best action I have ever used. Smooth as a gravy sandwich...locks up tight as a bank vault, yet opens with the flick of a finger. Most importantly, different from most tight tolerance customs, the action NEVER gives even a hint of binding or slowing down, no matter how sloppily you work the bolt.

JamieD of Wolf Precision and the boys at BAT really paid attention to details and put together an amazing product.

Although...my BAT build will still sport a Surgeon bottom metal

Benjie- Is your BAT an HRPIC, a VRPIC, or one of the BAT tacticals sold exclusively by Wolf Precision?

 

[JamieD]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

The Bat Tactical Actions are just coming out and only about 25 are in the field to date. More batches are coming and we will do our best to keep them in stock or at least a short wait.

19scout77 it right - some out there are meloniting the Bat VRPICS and calling them the Tactical Action from Bat. Please be aware that unless they have BTA in the serial #, they are not a Bat Tactical Action.

Some good questions and information are in the original post when I received the first batch. You can read it below, but the BTA's do have the same tolerances and clearances as all Bat Actions, but there were other changes made. You can read more about it below. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3288322&page=1

The Surgeon is a great action with a lot of history. I have built several guns using the action myself. A lot of time, thought and effort went into the design of the BTA's and I am extremely happy with them. But like anything else new, they will have to prove themselves over time and earn there own reputation. Feedback so far has been great and I personally am still amazed at the quality and it's pretty exiting as more and more of them hit the field.

Thanks,

JamieD

______________________________
Jamie Dodson
Wolf Precision
Bat Tactical Actions
All Hogs Go to Heaven

 

[B.Bates]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

I just have a VRPIC action that was melonited, probably the slickest action ive owned.

there is nothing wrong with a BAT, and Jamie is doing a great job at getting another great action out there in a timely manner, to me the biggest pain with bat is the wait time

.257 here has 2 BAT's, and they have both run just fine in all the grit, rain and slop associated with both the Kentucky and K&M PRS matches.

again both great actions, but you cant deny the support surgeon gives back to the sport, that was and is the deciding factor with me.

 

[JayCarver]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

Thanks for all the replies, I was dead set on a surgeon untill the B.T.A. Came out.

It will prob take me awhile to make up mt mind, I like the idea of the bat action being tighter and I'm very used to that style of bolt knob.

Both will be a huge upgrade from trued up 700's that I'm used to.

This rifle will see more use than any of my others so I want to make sure I do it right.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

either one will be fine, I doubt anybody can shoot the dif between the two so go with the best looking one.
good luck.

 

[gebhardt02]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

The original Surgeon bolts were similar in a couple regards to the BAT action as in they didn't have the antibind rail in the left lug and the guide rail in the right. Surgeon has since made that modification. I don't know the exact reasons whether for reliability or anything else, but it was interesting to see the BAT started out the same as the Surgeon bolt did. I have one of the original config Surgeon bolts and have never had a problem with it NOT having the antibind or guide rails, so I'm sure the BAT will be just fine as well. I wouldn't hesitate to build on the BAT either, it looks like a very well made action but I haven't handled one either. I just thought I'd point out the similarities in the original bolt designs. Good luck with your decision and project.

Geb

 

[JayCarver]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

How does having a melonited action go when the build is finished and its time to coat the entire rifle with duracoat(or other coating)?

Is the inside of the action just masked off or ?

 

[B.Bates]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

Jay

I wouldn't coat the melonited action

I would run the metal black, paint the barrel to match

If you are set on a coating use cerakote or gunkote

If painted it will smooth up with wear and shooting

They look great after melonite why mess with the finish. That's just me though

 

[JByrd]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd go Surgeon. Both are probably equals, but Surgeon supports the tactical sport and this website so they get my support. </div></div>

what he said, except for the equal part

love my scalpel

 

[MWDG3]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The BAT I saw cammed externally on the notch.</div></div>

Prolly had a roller bearing too for assisting the cam? My 3 lug does.

 

[Down South]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

Can't go wrong either way as everyone else has said, I have a Bat and a Surgeon on customs and both are great actions.

 

[Johnny Sasaki]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: procovert45</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd go Surgeon. Both are probably equals, but Surgeon supports the tactical sport and this website so they get my support. </div></div>

what he said, except for the equal part

love my scalpel </div></div>

You and me both.

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

I love my BAT heavy repeaters. Smooth as silk. I use them on my 300wm and 6.5x47. I see no reason to go with anything else...unless cost saving is a factor

 

[JayCarver]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

Thanks for all the replies, I ordered a Surgeon 591 with a 223 boltface. That's one decision out of the way, now I need to order a barrel, I know I want 1 in 7 twist, leaning toward a krieger, any opinions on what contour for a 223, I shoot a lot when I do so I know I want something heavy, just not sure how heavy?

 

[Terry Cross]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

Jay,

Here is a 223 Rem. Barrel is Krieger #14 Hvy Palma 1-7.7" twist finished at 16". It will F*%K up a crow's day.

Good weight for a cross trainer also. 223 is pretty efficient in the 16" length.

 

[aaronfor10]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

I'm in the same boat with these two actions right now. I'm thinking that whichever I go with will have to run AW mags. Are both of these easily convertible to running AW mags? I thought I remembered hearing about not being able to run AW mags with BAT actions. Is that right? or am I way off base?

 

[Gray]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Terry Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jay,

Here is a 223 Rem. Barrel is Krieger #14 Hvy Palma 1-7.7" twist finished at 16". It will F*%K up a crow's day.

Good weight for a cross trainer also. 223 is pretty efficient in the 16" length.
</div></div>

Very Nice! .223 like this is the perfect excuse for me to get a Sentinel stock.

 

[khw9mm]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

My preference is Surgeon.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggie410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm in the same boat with these two actions right now. I'm thinking that whichever I go with will have to run AW mags. Are both of these easily convertible to running AW mags? I thought I remembered hearing about not being able to run AW mags with BAT actions. Is that right? or am I way off base? </div></div>

You are correct.

 

[aaronfor10]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggie410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm in the same boat with these two actions right now. I'm thinking that whichever I go with will have to run AW mags. Are both of these easily convertible to running AW mags? I thought I remembered hearing about not being able to run AW mags with BAT actions. Is that right? or am I way off base? </div></div>

You are correct.</div></div>

Is this any different than the Surgeon action? I thought that the surgeon had to be modified as well, but the BTA couldn't be modified to run AW mags. Now, I hear that it can be modded to run AW's after all... I dunno.

 

[jerseymike]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

+1 on the BAT.

Just picked mine up a few weeks ago (243) locks up tight and the bolt is as smooth as butter. You can run the bolt as fast as you want and it wont bind up at all.

 

[customones]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

I have a bat vr90 right bolt left port on my 6.5x47/ 22x47 switch barrel set up.. I have used this rifle in a few matches here in Montana and had great luck with it. bat makes a great product and went out of there way to get a rail and modify it for this action in short order.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

Do yourself a favor and look into BigHorn Arms. They do a tactical action and it's silk smooth. With the floating bolt, gas block and longer tenon it's proving to be a very fast, accurate and reliable action on my 6.5CM

Also give Mark Gordon owner of Short Action Customs a call. He has his own action design and puts a rifle together with the fit and finish comparable to anything on the market.

 

[Kopfjager 4-96]

Re: Surgeon 591 or Bat Tatical Action?

I have the Surgeon 591 and would not purchase any other bolt gun. And if i do, it will be another Surgeon