Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

crossgun

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Sep 2, 2008
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For those of you with Surgeon Bottom Metal any issues, likes or dislikes? Does Surgeon offer any features that the others dont?

Looking at putting together a new stock and trying to figure out if Surgeon should be on the list.
 
Re: Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

It is my preferrred bottom metal. Jared's new APA bottom metal looks good. The Badger with the RAD latch is on one of my rifles and I like it with the aftermarked RAD latch. I am having a rifle built now and the Surgeon was my first choice.
 
Re: Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

i would also look at the new Seekins units they have an Ambi button release like an AR button we have some on the way and will be interested in how well these work but the Surgeon units are always well respected.
 
Re: Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

WOW! I have been running a few Badgers' without issue and you guys are making me feel bad.

Does the Surgeon offer any features which make it the clear choice for you?
 
Re: Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SingleShot85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Surgeon is stupid proof. </div></div>
That is a bold endorsement, in my experience stupid people are amazingly resourceful.

I have only heard great things about anything Surgeon produces.
 
Re: Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

Not to hijack someone elses post but my question to those of you who say it is better than others on the market is what makes it better? Im also in the market for bottom metal. What makes the Surgeon better? Dose it have a diffrent inlet than the Badger?
 
Re: Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tim1071</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to hijack someone elses post but my question to those of you who say it is better than others on the market is what makes it better? Im also in the market for bottom metal. What makes the Surgeon better? Dose it have a diffrent inlet than the Badger? </div></div>

Ford vs. Chevy debate. Myself I don't like it due to the front lower mag guide, the rear guide is ok just don't like the front. They both work as intended and yes it has a different inlet.
 
Re: Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

I like the fit and finish on them, they seem a little more polished than the Badgers I've owned.

I do plan on trying one of the RAD ones from HateCA, Randy did some innovative design there too. Judging by the pictures I've seen I expect the fit and finish to be up there with the Surgeons.
 
Re: Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

The Surgeon was one of the first to have a low profile mag latch that doesn't hang out and yet not have to put your finger inside the trigger guard to access. Some view the later as a possible safety issue under stress.

The Surgeon was one of the first to offer a bottom metal, DBM or otherwise that was completely chamfered and deburred on all exterior edges in addition to a nicely beveled mag well.

Surgeon was not crazy about designing a magazine support in the front that would protrude past flush with the stock. I lobbied hard for them to go ahead and run it that way.
#1: Even if you are using a 5 round magazine, the bottom of the magazine extends below the bottom of the stock anyway.

#2: Any of magazines that protrude (all of them) are subject to getting creamed into rails, car doors, fences, etc. when in actual field use and you push the rifle into these type make do rests. Besides being not healthy for the magazine, some rifles that are borderline on their cartridge to boltface pickup can be made to misfeed if the magazine is biased out of position.

#3: There are two ways to get good magazine function and minimal rattle in a DBM system. One is to go for a minimal clearance between the mag well and the mag body. All of the systems that stop flush with the bottom of the stock have to do this. The other approach is to get a lot of Z-axis support controlling the magazine body similar to what the parent Accuracy International rifles and AICS do. After all, they are what these magazines were designed to work with. Surgeon and myself with the SENTINEL bottoms went this route.

The Surgeon allows best control of the magazine and still room for debris and gives protection to the magazine (see #2 above) on par with the original AICS design. Function over cosmetics every time.

There are a number of excellent DBM systems out there as well as 2nd party enhancements for those DBMs. I am just trying to answer your original question in regards to the Surgeon product. It is extremely well made. It is designed to be safe, realiable and user friendly.
 
Re: Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Driftwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SingleShot85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Surgeon is stupid proof. </div></div>
That is a bold endorsement, in my experience stupid people are amazingly resourceful.

I have only heard great things about anything Surgeon produces.</div></div>

you may have misinterpreted my statement.

Surgeon is so perfect a stupid person can't F-it-up.

I bought one and pulled one from a prize table, simply amazing.
 
Re: Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

I vote Badger. Im using Badger on my 300winmag Adj A3-5 build. Based of a Bat Action. My buddies all use badger and they are like tanks. They have never had a problem with them. The one guy at our club has stick with Surgeon bottom metal. And its nice. But I dont see anything about it that would make me choose it over the Badger. Most likely either one will serve you well.
 
Re: Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jig Stick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...But I dont see anything about it that would make me choose it over the Badger...</div></div>

I have used the M5 and do like it, my complaint happens to be when I sling the rifle for hunting, always seems the release lever is poking me in the back.
 
Re: Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 280man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another question

If my stock is inletted for a Badger DBM will a Surgeon fit? </div></div>

No, not without work.
 
Re: Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

I have seen magazines fall out of a Surgeon DBM while shooting. I thought it was odd. Not sure if it was the install or was the actual design of the bottom metal that made it do that.
 
Re: Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 280man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HateCA

Can you elaborate on the inlet difference? </div></div>

The shape of the profile. They are different. Hard to get specific, one would have to see them side by side, but they are not interchangeable.
 
Re: Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

I have seen mags fall out of Badger's as well. Not sure what the point was especially seeing we all can assume that its a seating/user issue.
 
Re: Surgeon Bottom Metal good or bad?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Push/Pull when inserting a magazine.

I have seen magazines drop out of AR's and pistols quite a bit too.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crossgun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen mags fall out of Badger's as well. Not sure what the point was especially seeing we all can assume that its a seating/user issue.</div></div>

I have seen this happen with most dbm's when loading a mag full of rounds and the bolt closed. It needs more pressure to get the mag seated, push/pull = good habit.