Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

[rksimple]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Don't want to get involved with the drama, but I won a GAP hunting type rifle with a light palma 22" barrel and lightweight stock. I don't know what type of 243 reamer they use but the rifle is a goddammed hammer. It shoots as well or better than the 243 I won it with. George and crew does a fantastic job. Not only do they build a fantastic rifle but they answer and put up with the incessant questions. You can't go wrong.

 

[MikeinMO]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't want to get involved with the drama, but I won a GAP hunting type rifle with a light palma 22" barrel and lightweight stock. I don't know what type of 243 reamer they use but the rifle is a goddammed hammer. It shoots as well or better than the 243 I won it with. George and crew does a fantastic job. Not only do they build a fantastic rifle but they answer and put up with the incessant questions. You can't go wrong.

</div></div>

They are a great company, run by great people. Problem is the same problem all the good gunmakers have right now... Long lead times. People my age might never see what we order!

Would be interesting to know what little tricks these guys use with respect to how they cut a chamber, lap a bbl, etc. There's so much art along with the science, and so many top notch makers out there. The good news is that we shooters are far better served due to the competition.

 

[KYS]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I own a fair amount of GAP built rifles. And I also own a couple Surgeon built rifles. I am going to go out on a limb and say when you are a top tier smith and building these rifles is just 2nd nature to you, it's just probably in the little tricks they have picked up along the way. Put a Surgeon next to a GAP and I bet they shoot pretty darn close to perfect but when you deal with the PEOPLE at the shop, that's why I send my money to GAP 99% of the time. I don't have a problem with their lead times. If you are basing your rifle purchase over lead times then this is not the sport for you. You want the best, prepare to wait like everyone else does. Surgeon is so backed up they put a hold on new builds for awhile.

GAP is still taking order and cranking out hammers. Am I biased? No, I just respect those guys at GAP for what they do for me and my rigs. There are a handful of great gunsmiths in the country. You just have to find them thru other peoples testimony's and these forums. If it was not for this site I might have never found the top notch smiths out there.

 

[Tigerbikes]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Back to the topic at hand.

Just have GAP build your rifle on a Surgeon action.

 

[MikeinMO]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I own a fair amount of GAP built rifles. And I also own a couple Surgeon built rifles. I am going to go out on a limb and say when you are a top tier smith and building these rifles is just 2nd nature to you, it's just probably in the little tricks they have picked up along the way. Put a Surgeon next to a GAP and I bet they shoot pretty darn close to perfect but when you deal with the PEOPLE at the shop, that's why I send my money to GAP 99% of the time. I don't have a problem with their lead times. If you are basing your rifle purchase over lead times then this is not the sport for you. You want the best, prepare to wait like everyone else does. Surgeon is so backed up they put a hold on new builds for awhile.

GAP is still taking order and cranking out hammers. Am I biased? No, I just respect those guys at GAP for what they do for me and my rigs. There are a handful of great gunsmiths in the country. You just have to find them thru other peoples testimony's and these forums. If it was not for this site I might have never found the top notch smiths out there. </div></div>

You must be young. I don't even buy green bananas anymore.

I did manage to get ahold of a Surgeon action though, just a few weeks ago, which is being bbl'd by Krieger now. I will finish and assemble it myself. I've had pretty good success so far, and I really enjoy fitting stocks and finishing rifles. GAP was my first choice for a bbl'd action, and I'd have been very happy to work with them. As I said above, they're great folks who build a tremendous product.

As for the Surgeon action, I went over it pretty thoroughly and was very satisfied with the workmanship. It won't be the weak link in the accuracy chain.

 

[dyoung]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

GAP Surgeon in 7 WSM is my next build.

Have a GAP 338LM...it is awesome.

Ditto for George and GAP...can not go wrong.

 

[Møønlight]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Can't speak for GAP/Templar yet. I have heard a lot of great thing's and if I remember correctly nothing bad.

Whenever I hear a smith or anyone talk about Surgeon's, you hear how it's the best tactial action out there.

With that all said, go with either action and builder and your going to be sitting good.

I'm just a noob though. But I think I'm tracking a little.
MS

 

[badhabit_wb]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

i have two rifles with surgeon actions. apa in jefferson, ga. built both for me. they are great people and build great rifles. the second build has their new bottom metal. i think if you see, and use, it you will have to have it! go to their web site and have a look and then ask around on the hide. i don't think you'll find anyone here that has one of their rifles that's not a tack driver. they're also close enough for you to drive down and check em out. good luck with your choice.

 

[Tangodown911]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Tough call. But this is what Preston Pritchett has to say. It is a bit of different twist.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: preston pritchett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Robert Gradous is one of the sharpest guys you will ever be around. He is a little different but we all are, that is what makes the world interesting. He has made numerous trips to our shop just to make his point. First time I met him he was very rough around the edges and I thought to myself why in the world do I want to set here and listen to this guy. Then I thought this guy has driven for days to come up and give his opinion and the least I could do is listen to him. The longer I listened to him the more I realised that we was in the past and this guy was in the future. Long story short he told us some things with the promice that we would not pass it on. I honestly feel he is one of the best gunsmiths in the US. If you do have your rifle built by him you will have a rifle that is as good as it gets. We have not only used some of his ideas in our action and also in our rifle builds. Not only is he a good friend he is a very good advisor and rifle builder. If someone was to take and have all of the rifle builders build 10 rifles each. And then take all the rifles and put them to a test and see which of the gunsmiths would be on top. If Robert was not on top I would like to spend some time in the shop of the guy that was. He is a little rough around the edges so when you call him keep that in mind and put up with a little of this to get a lot of that.

http://gradousrifles.com/
706-554-2959

</div></div>

 

[KYS]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeinMO</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I own a fair amount of GAP built rifles. And I also own a couple Surgeon built rifles. I am going to go out on a limb and say when you are a top tier smith and building these rifles is just 2nd nature to you, it's just probably in the little tricks they have picked up along the way. Put a Surgeon next to a GAP and I bet they shoot pretty darn close to perfect but when you deal with the PEOPLE at the shop, that's why I send my money to GAP 99% of the time. I don't have a problem with their lead times. If you are basing your rifle purchase over lead times then this is not the sport for you. You want the best, prepare to wait like everyone else does. Surgeon is so backed up they put a hold on new builds for awhile.

GAP is still taking order and cranking out hammers. Am I biased? No, I just respect those guys at GAP for what they do for me and my rigs. There are a handful of great gunsmiths in the country. You just have to find them thru other peoples testimony's and these forums. If it was not for this site I might have never found the top notch smiths out there. </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">You must be young. I don't even buy green bananas anymore.</span>

I did manage to get ahold of a Surgeon action though, just a few weeks ago, which is being bbl'd by Krieger now. I will finish and assemble it myself. I've had pretty good success so far, and I really enjoy fitting stocks and finishing rifles. GAP was my first choice for a bbl'd action, and I'd have been very happy to work with them. As I said above, they're great folks who build a tremendous product.

As for the Surgeon action, I went over it pretty thoroughly and was very satisfied with the workmanship. It won't be the weak link in the accuracy chain. </div></div>

Ok, so you must be old? What's the point of your post..... because I'm not seeing one so far.

 

[skeetlee]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

i guess i see this a little different. Any of the well know smiths here like Rosco, hateca Gap surgeon beanland cross among others will build you a quality rifle and you wont be able to tell a bit of difference in performance. if its built right its built right!! Gap is great but i chose not to go with them after talking to a couple fellas. It seems that gap didnt have much personal connection with these few customers. they placed there order and didnt hear anything else, then one day there rifle was on there front porch. I personally like Jon Beanland. He takes the time to get to know you and he calls up just wanting to know how your rifle is shooting and to visit. That means a lot to me when i drop 3000 bucks. Personal attention and care goes a long way with me. im not saying gap doesnt do this, they just didnt with these three fellas. they love there rifle though!! You really cant go wrong as long as you stay with one of the better smiths!! Lee

 

[buckey]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i guess i see this a little different. Any of the well know smiths here like Rosco, hateca Gap surgeon beanland cross among others will build you a quality rifle and you wont be able to tell a bit of difference in performance. if its built right its built right!! Gap is great but i chose not to go with them after talking to a couple fellas. It seems that gap didnt have much personal connection with these few customers. they placed there order and didnt hear anything else, then one day there rifle was on there front porch. I personally like Jon Beanland. He takes the time to get to know you and he calls up just wanting to know how your rifle is shooting and to visit. That means a lot to me when i drop 3000 bucks. Personal attention and care goes a long way with me. im not saying gap doesnt do this, they just didnt with these three fellas. they love there rifle though!! You really cant go wrong as long as you stay with one of the better smiths!! Lee </div></div>


+1000000000

 

[Impact]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I have both a Scalpel .308 ( MCMa5, MTU #10, PR 3-15x) and GAP .308 ( Manners T2, Leupold Mk4) .They both shoot lights out if I do my part. Pick your poison. Can't go wrong with those 2.

 

[TRON]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I have had both and its equal all things considered. I still have 4 gaps and another to pickup and waiting on a surgeon action so moon can build me a .223 !

 

[Graham]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarolinaExPat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am about to make a purchase on a new .308 stick and I want a bit of input. I am looking at either a Surgeon Scalpel .308 or a GA Precision (several options).</div></div>If you are building a .308 on a short action go with the Templar.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I have a GAPrecision Crusader, with one of "the other" (name shall not be mentioned) receivers. It is fantastic, and at my first comp, which I partook this year, it excelled. My first string was at 800 yds. 72 5V (out of 75) IIRC. And yes, it is windy here in Manitoba.

Yeah, I'm happy with mine. And if their changes have been improvements (is there any doubt?), then things are only better than what I've got.

Don't be afeared.

 

[Graham]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

We don't know which Surgeon action he is talking about: the one that has had problems with ejection port length in the short action, or the other one.

We've been here before:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...062#Post1865062

I hear that Preston still insists that there is no problem.

 

[kheuertz]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I have the best of both worlds...have a GAP built on a Surgeon action. Shot four rounds through one hole and if my daughter hadn't taken my camera to college, I'd post the pic!

 

[mattmcg]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

This is from a GAP built rifle on a Surgeon 591 repeater. Group consists of 32 shots from 200, 300, 425, 500, 600, and 800 yards. We continued shooting after this photo at 900 and 1K and the grouping held. Won the match and set a new course record.

Really can't go wrong with a GAP build.

 

[dcavette]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Another vote for a Surgeon built .308! I bought mine a couple of months ago and shoots fantastic. I don't know what they tell everybody but my father is about to order one as well and they have told him that they would make him one. I was told that most of the problem was that they have to wait months to get Mcmillan stocks. Who knows though. My groups at 100 to 300 are well within .5 MOA. I wanted surefire brake but it came with AAC and I am very impressed with it.

 

[71firebird400]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EYE FOR AN EYE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another vote for a Surgeon built .308! I bought mine a couple of months ago and shoots fantastic. I don't know what they tell everybody but my father is about to order one as well and they have told him that they would make him one. I was told that most of the problem was that they have to wait months to get Mcmillan stocks. Who knows though. My groups at 100 to 300 are well within .5 MOA. I wanted surefire brake but it came with AAC and I am very impressed with it. </div></div>

Why did you bring back a year old thread?

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Have a GAP Crusader w Templar short action and McMillan A5 stock; and a GAP Hospitaller w Surgeon 591 action and Manners T4 stock. Both are very, very, very close, but I'd have to give the nod to the Crusader. I really like the Templar action hooked up with the A5 stock. JMHO. FWIW, if you're talking standard barrel length versions as mine are, the extra couple inches of barrel on the Hospitaller will buy you in the neighborhood of 30-40 fps MV with a given load.

 

[Dirtdigger]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EYE FOR AN EYE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another vote for a Surgeon built .308! I bought mine a couple of months ago and shoots fantastic. I don't know what they tell everybody but my father is about to order one as well and they have told him that they would make him one. I was told that most of the problem was that they have to wait months to get Mcmillan stocks. Who knows though. My groups at 100 to 300 are well within .5 MOA. I wanted surefire brake but it came with AAC and I am very impressed with it. </div></div>

Why did you bring back a year old thread? </div></div>

i'm glad he did, i just read the whole thing. now i know i'm getting a surgeon action for my smith to build off of.

sometimes old threads need new life...

 

[SFC Carpentier jr]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I own a few GAP's and I can tell that you will not go wrong with one of there rifles. They make a good product and they stand behind there work.

I am sure that Surgeon will do the same. I know they make a good action.

 

[nexusfire]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

They are both high quality rifles can't go wrong with either.

 

[TattooBlade]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Recently got a GAP Custom with McMillan HTG stock, Bartlien #7 22" fluted barrel, Badger Metal all around, black Cerekote, Nightforce NXS 5.5x22.50, in 308 of course.

Shoots one hole groups at 100 all day long. Simply amazing! Had a 5R for a while with HS stock. The Mac feels so much better. The new stick is a pig but has no recoil. I love it!

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I was very hesitant to go with a GAP because I had heard some things here and there, but chalked it up to internet butthurt people. Finally, it came down to building the 6.5x47 and looking around, they were willing to put together just what I wanted, so I sent my parts in and Moon built my rifle.

I only took a few pics of the first time out with the rifle. This was load development on the very first week of ownership. First two groups with H4350 were not that impressive to me and I shopped at 3 rounds, having discounted the groups.

Then I switched to Varget and finished the groups at five:

After shooting it a while an shooting a few more groups at 100 that were just boring and easy, I settled on a load with 140s and one with 130s and went to shoot them at 300 yards. The 130 load produced a .75" group at 300 with one bad shot on my part. So needless to say, I'm happy with the way the rifle is shooting. Its got about 140 rounds down the tube now, but seems its just getting better.

So, after all my hesitation to the first rifle, I'm now sending in for another build.

 

[Cologgi]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Ive got one of each. The Surgeon came from KYS338. Both Shoot great. Just pick what you want and order one from who can get it quickest. Neither is a bad decision.

 

[kheuertz]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Had GA Precision build my stick with the Surgeon 591 action...got the best of both worlds!

 

[GUNNER10]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

i have a surgeon 338, and had a GAP 300WM, sold the 300 to a friend to fund some other projects,

cant say enough good about either of those guys, when my current 300 needs rebarreling it will go to GAPrecision. if i am going to do any future builds, they will be based off surgeon actions,

both are works of art, both companies are great to deal with

 

[B.Morgan]

Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I have been fortunate to own both. I can't complain about one or the other. I will tell you I am down to one Surgeon built gun but have multiple GAPs in the safe. In times of need I have always found George and his people to be extremely helpful and professional. I am also very appreciative of GA Precision support of the matches that I have attended. I have noticed plenty of GAP rifles, barrel jobs, and bolt handle installs on the prize tables and have been lucky to win a few things.

I think anyone that has one or the other should be very happy but I plan on giving my rifle orders to GA Precision.

 

[ryu_sekai]

Surgeon advised they have a 1/4 moa accuracy guarantee. Anyone have experience?

 

[Steel head]