SVDs questions?

[azakms]

Re: SVDs questions?

I took apart an AK and my NDM, the NDM has 3 lugs and is identical to the Russian 7.62X54r bolt with the exception of the machined area of the bolt head is slightly smaller to accommodate the smaller .308 rimmed base and it's made of stainless steel rather then painted steel.
Hope this answers your question.

 

[PSL1078]

Re: SVDs questions?

Thanks!!!

 

[misterp36]

Re: SVDs questions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had one miss my face by about four inches at 400m, I'm glad they suck.
</div></div>

I've been in a very similar position! Couldn't agreed more!

 

[Alien61]

Re: SVDs questions?

Im mostly reader here, but I must to intervene. As Russian I must be jump in for defend of most well known Motherland's Snipa Weapon, but I will not. Ill tell you a recent story on accuracy of that weapon:
Company mentioned here doing accurasing works on civil ver. of SVD - Tiger is "Legion". They advertised incredible accuracy of selected SVD from Izhmash plant and trued by them. Usually they declare 0,5moa or around 15-17mm groups and sell their products around $3-4k. (JFYI stock Tiger from Izhmash is $850). Official Legion passport usually included target with such group. A friend of mine, being just a honest man and really dedicated shooter bet $3k on possibility to repeat that accuracy. Rules - no handloads, factory ammo as they use for passport shooting, factory scope mount (well know weakest part in SVD) and 1MOA 5x5 groups. No one accepted or take a bet, but huge flame raised on Russian SH - Guns.ru All patriots of this weapon system (or poor customers of Legion) stand to defend it, but no one prove it. Later, bet was raised to $30k (thirty!) and simple 1MOA 2x5 target on one paper. No one did it! Legion itself accepted bet, but tried to change the rules, use selected rifle, special mount, NF scope and shoot indoor on their range... But still, none of Legion customers repeated even true 1moa result. Thats the story.) You can follow on our site in Russian, just look at the images as target pictures are fully international - http://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/91/980233-3.html
As Russian I had privilege to shoot plenty of mil SVDs and civvi Tigers. Even re barreled ones with heavy PKM and custom bbls. Also, Im dedicated mil rifles collector and I must recommend you to not consider this weapon for successful target shooting, but as beautiful decoration above fireplace and nice cold-war souvenir.

 

[win.308stealth]

Re: SVDs questions?

My brother has a Russian SVD and using the 4x scope that came with it, you cannot hit a 12 inch gong at 200 meters consistently. You will hit it 1-2 times out of five. The trigger is a weird one, I wouldn't call it a bad trigger, but you never know when it is going to go off. Basically you start pulling the trigger and there is a bout a quarter inch of travel and there is no feeling as to when the rifle will go off. I don't know how this became a sniper rifle, it is NOT accurate. It is not comfortable either. And I am not just bashing it because it is Russian, because I was born here in the States but I am Russian myself. Dasvidanya. M1A or AR any day.

 

[LanceS4803]

Re: SVDs questions?

A little late in seeing this one.
The original military SVD rifle is a rare bird. KBI imports and NDMs are still encountered. Those of us who collect Soviet weapons look to the SVD as the Holy Grail of mil rifles. Not as an uber accurate sniper rifle, but as a tangible reminder of what we faced during the Cold War.
That being said, with original 7N1 issued ammo, these rifles will hold about 1.5 inches. I hand load and bring this down to about 0.9 inches. That pencil thin barrel does heat up quickly though!
The most accurate? No. The most unique? Yes.
And, as for field accuracy, I hunt with this rifle. This is an elk hunt with my military issue SVD. The 4x PSO-1 scope really limits your options, and kind of self imposed handicap.

 

[samnev]

Re: SVDs questions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: win.308stealth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My brother has a Russian SVD and using the 4x scope that came with it, you cannot hit a 12 inch gong at 200 meters consistently. You will hit it 1-2 times out of five. The trigger is a weird one, I wouldn't call it a bad trigger, but you never know when it is going to go off. Basically you start pulling the trigger and there is a bout a quarter inch of travel and there is no feeling as to when the rifle will go off. I don't know how this became a sniper rifle, it is NOT accurate. It is not comfortable either. And I am not just bashing it because it is Russian, because I was born here in the States but I am Russian myself. Dasvidanya. M1A or AR any day. </div></div>

I own 2 NDM SVD's 1 a 7.62X54 the other in 308. Both will shoot 1.5" 100 yard 5 shot groups with decent ammunition. I have never seen any SVD Russian or Chinese that could not shoot well inside 12" @ 200 yards. 1 of 4 possibilities 1. The ammo is the problem. 2. The rifle is a lemon. 4.The scope is the problem. 4. The shooter might be the problem. Possibly some combination of all 4 with the first 3 the most likely. There are 5 SVD's in my shooting group and the all shoot about the same. Nothing like being unable to hit a 12" gong at 200 yards consistently.

 

[azakms]

Re: SVDs questions?

I just put a POSP 8X42 scope on my .308 NDM-86 along with the Russian black polymer stock set to give it a little length. The scope is the week link on this rifle, so why not upgrade to a more powerful scope.
I dug up a copy of SWAT magazine from Feb 2009 that did a detailed write up on the NDM-86 in .308 and they were able to get less then 5" groups at 500 yards with Gold Medal Match 168gr ammo. That was with the factory 4 power scope.

 

[LanceS4803]

Re: SVDs questions?

If someone is shooting yellow tip Hungarian yellow tip ball, I can easily see not being able to get on paper.
If you are relegated to factory ammo, 7N1 makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Wonko_The_Sane]

Re: SVDs questions?

Eh.. Old thread.

I was out shooting my NDM-86 in 54R today, spent most of the time shooting spam can light ball and was getting the usual hand sized groups at 100 Yrds, had a nearly empty box of 150gr Wold Gold ammo with 3 rounds left in it, fired this group just before calling it a day. Was shot from one of those replica bipods made for the SVD that clamps the receiver with the original 4x power scope. I personally feel like I could of brought that one flyer in just a bit. Starts to get vertical stringing though as the barrel heats up. Still by no mean a match rifle, or even comparable to todays semi-auto precision rifles, but for what it is, I'm completely happy with this group.

 

[AzNooB]

Re: SVDs questions?

An NDM-86 in .308 would be cool to have. It's just nowhere on my priority list with the accuracyrice ratio it has.

 

[win.308stealth]

Re: SVDs questions?

It is a unique rifle. I should try shooting some of the 7n1 ammo, the only ammo we shot out of it is the CHEAPEST bulk stuff.

 

[Razor74]

Re: SVDs questions?

The weekest point to these rifles are the 4X scope with inverted v chevron that was not designed to shoot groups on paper, but to hit a man sized target rapidly at distance at higher rate of fire than a standard bolt action witch it does very well in the right hands. Even more so the cheap surplus ammo that peaple choose to put into these weapons. The other major negative factor is one of the most important ones. Most people use a front rest ie bag of some type, or a modified harris type bipod, none of witch are good for this gun. They all put undo stress on the thin barrel changing the harmonics leading to poor inconsistant groups.
If you want the best possible accuracy get the proper bipod, the one that attaches to the reciever groves just behind the handguard an upgraded scope and some good quality ammo. Then you will get the results that you want.

 

[samnev]

Re: SVDs questions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Razor74</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The weekest point to these rifles are the 4X scope with inverted v chevron that was not designed to shoot groups on paper, but to hit a man sized target rapidly at distance at higher rate of fire than a standard bolt action witch it does very well in the right hands. Even more so the cheap surplus ammo that peaple choose to put into these weapons. The other major negative factor is one of the most important ones. Most people use a front rest ie bag of some type, or a modified harris type bipod, none of witch are good for this gun. They all put undo stress on the thin barrel changing the harmonics leading to poor inconsistant groups.
If you want the best possible accuracy get the proper bipod, the one that attaches to the receiver groves just behind the hand guard an upgraded scope and some good quality ammo. Then you will get the results that you want. </div></div>

A big +1 on not putting any stress on the barrel of any rifle if you expect decent groups let alone the thin barrel of the SVD. I see shooters at my gun club shooting their rifles with sand bags under the barrel wondering why their groups are all over the place.

 

[Razor74]

Re: SVDs questions?

Most people use heavy nagant rounds in the SVD,it was not made for such a heavy bullet. It was designed for lighter grain bullets. It's like using a 223 with a 1-9 twist designed for a 55gr bullet, and trying to shoot 77gr out of it. Some might but most will not. You would not get good accuracy doing this. Same applies to the SVD.

 

[Mister Ridge]

Re: SVDs questions?

What grain bullet is required exactly? My 91/30 only shoots bullets in the 150 grain area to POA/POI. Anything heavier and it shoots way high.

 

[Razor74]

Re: SVDs questions?

The original bullet for the SVD was the 7N1/7N14 151gr, traveling around 2700 fps. Izhmash site says if you have a true russian or chinese SVD ( Not a Romanian PSL) you can use up to a 204gr bullet. I have never owned a 91/30 so i can't say for sure, but most bolt action's will handle heavier loads. I would say stick to what you know works for your gun. Most surplus 7.62x54 ammo is in the 180gr range.

 

[Wonko_The_Sane]

Re: SVDs questions?

I've been stripping down light ball ammo and only using bullets that weigh in more than 148gr but no more than 149gr, reusing the original powder that is normally anywhere from 46-50gr's and putting in an even 47.5gr's, and setting all the bullets to a 3.02'' over all length.

Been curious to see what kind of improvement, if any, can be had from just adding consistency to the original components of the spam can light ball. Might finally open my can of 7n1 and use a few packs to see what it does too.

Also, those with an NDM, you can see quite an improvement in the rifle after doing a trigger job on it.

 

[Razor74]

Re: SVDs questions?

My (NDM-86 308) did great with 155gr .50 moa. I would get .75 moa with 168gr match. But with the thin barrel, if did not take my time, it would start to string. This was with the 8x scope not the 4x provided. It was too hard to hold the same point of aim with the 4x.

 

[kimber]

Re: SVDs questions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gildoom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This last winter shooting, I met a guy who owned a REAL Dragunov, he said it was neat but no where near what people think it is in terms of accuracy. He said a rough, old, lame, crappy Springfield M14 would shoot better than this thing did, clean, well taken care of.

If you HAVE to have this type of rifle, buy two rifles, the VEPR in 7.62x54r and the PSL. I have both, they are fine for what they are, but they are FAR from accurate bench type rifles. Would I like one shooting at me? No, hell no. They hit man size targets at 600 yards with great regularity, even warm, just if you took one out to shoot varmints you would go broke trying ot hit them at 200~400 yards.

They were a designated marksman type suppression role, not precision, what our "allied" forces typically do. The way it was explained to me, a ruskie with this weapon, would shoot, take cover for 10~15 minutes, move, shoot again, take cover, move, shoot again. While doing this, the people he/she was shooting at, would be taking cover while his/her forces moved in with the AK.

Now, if you have 4,000$ burning a hole in your pocket and you have to have one? I understand that, I really do. But most of the reason they are what they are in price is just cause of supply and demand, no supply and if 100 people want it? Well, they go up in price 10x what they should be.

<span style="color: #990000">The stupidest, dumbest, moronic thing in the world, is folks in New Zealand can purchase this</span>, I wouldn't be shocked if Canadians can too. Thanks Reagan, dunno what he was thinking when he did that executive order (and I love Reagan), but it sure has been awful for those of us who love guns from over seas. </div></div>

That we can but hardly anybody bothers why pay a shittun of money for a half arsed heavy as crowbar of a rifle when you could buy a AR-10 for the same money and actually hit things

http://www.deltasector.co.nz/armalite-rifles.html

http://www.guncity.co.nz/7.62x54-xidg28313.html
Madness I say

 

[Razor74]

Re: SVDs questions?

To me it's more a matter of what a person wants to do with his/her own money. Flintlocks and blackpowder rifles are outdated and inaccurate, but many people still buy and shot them because they want to. I personaly hit nearly everything that i shoot at with both my AR'S and my SVD.

 

[Wonko_The_Sane]

Re: SVDs questions?

I feel like questions about the SVD rifle would be better off in the Vintage thread instead of the Semi-Auto's. Anytime one gets brought up here, it's instantly compared to stuff being made today that has 50 years of advancement in firearms technology applied to them. Of course shit of today is going to be far superior and cheaper. Considering nothing on them has changed since their introduction, even the NDM's, all of these that got into the US in the 80's are just modern classics really.

I'm pretty sure every SVD owner in the US didn't buy it for the performance, they buy them for there collectors value and history. Some collectors just actually enjoy shooting them despite their fall backs, while others prefer keeping them boxed up and in a safe.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: SVDs questions?

I have also been collet pulling bullets from Klimov/Novosibirsk (188) LPS Light Ball. The data I can find on this loading seems to indicate a charge weight of 49.1gr of the factory stick powder. Weighing each charge to that weight and reseating the bullets has given quite good accuracy in my 1943 Tula 91/30.

I have substituted 49.0gr of IMR-4064 with those components for paper, as well as loading PPU brass with CCI 200, 49.0gr of IMR-4064 and HDY 150gr "303 caliber" SP Interlocks for hunting.

These loads are also quite accurate from my 91/30. All I have shot it with is the original irons at about 50yd, with 5rd groups well under an inch. For my needs, that's quite good enough.

Greg

 

[Unknown]

Re: SVDs questions?

The Russians know how to make very accurate firearms if they want to. The SVD/Dragunov does exactly what it's designer's intended it to do. It was made for to be sort of a designated marksman's rifle in support of troops armed with AK47/74 rifles. The intent was for the AK armed troops to take care of business out to about 200-300 meters, and the SVD/Dragunov armed troops to extend that reach out to around 800 meters.

If you look at the equipment the Russians use in olympic events it becomes apparent that they simply chose to design the SVD/Dragunov to be something OTHER than a precision rifle.

My personal take on it is that the Dragunov is more like an M14 rifle than an M40 or similar precision rifle.

 

[BCP]

Re: SVDs questions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have also been collet pulling bullets from Klimov/Novosibirsk (188) LPS Light Ball. The data I can find on this loading seems to indicate a charge weight of 49.1gr of the factory stick powder. Weighing each charge to that weight and reseating the bullets has given quite good accuracy in my 1943 Tula 91/30.

I have substituted 49.0gr of IMR-4064 with those components for paper, as well as loading PPU brass with CCI 200, 49.0gr of IMR-4064 and HDY 150gr "303 caliber" SP Interlocks for hunting.

These loads are also quite accurate from my 91/30. All I have shot it with is the original irons at about 50yd, with 5rd groups well under an inch. For my needs, that's quite good enough.

Greg </div></div>

I think the Bulgarian light ball I have is 46 grains of stick powder and 2650fps out of my PSL w/149gr bullet. The Russian stuff seems to be loaded a bit hotter. 4064 or maybe 4350 would be a good guess as to powder type.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: SVDs questions?

I have used this ammo spec for comparison.

 

[miketremello]

Re: SVDs questions?

where did you get this?. im looking for some thing similar http://www.blackforgeweapons.com/Vepr_Russian_Kalashnikov_p/bf-54r-kkov.htm
did u convert your self?

 

[BCP]

Re: SVDs questions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: miketremello</div><div class="ubbcode-body">where did you get this?. im looking for some thing similar http://www.blackforgeweapons.com/Vepr_Russian_Kalashnikov_p/bf-54r-kkov.htm
did u convert your self?
</div></div>

That's a PSL with a bunch of shit added to it. They are also designing an SVD clone which is a different rifle altogether, although it still looks similar.

If you want something "like that" call around to JGSales, AtlanticFirearms, find a 20-24" VEPR 308.

 

[samnev]

Re: SVDs questions?

J&G Sales doesn't have any AK's left or AR's other than the Czech AK version.

 

[K-tech]

Re: SVDs questions?

You have no idea how jealous you make me not only for going elk hunting, but going elk hunting with a dragunov! I go deer hunting with my arsenal AK 7.62x39, not that its the "best" choice ever but its pretty decent for deer drives. Thanks for the pic.

 

[VYD]

Re: SVDs questions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wonko The Sane</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I feel like questions about the SVD rifle would be better off in the Vintage thread instead of the Semi-Auto's. Anytime one gets brought up here, it's instantly compared to stuff being made today that has 50 years of advancement in firearms technology applied to them. Considering nothing on them has changed since their introduction... </div></div>

Exactly. Dragunov himself once said that he could have made his rifle more accurate but the mil-spec standards of that era required him to do the opposite for the sake of reliability. With the right ammo and a guy with the right concept in his head 600 meter kills are nothing to sweat about. Ask the dead Muj and Talib fucks. Not bad for a pencil-barrelled gun designed in the early 60s.

 

[Wonko_The_Sane]

Re: SVDs questions?

Got some new bits and pieces for mine. Still waiting on more though. Got a polymer stock from Black Horse to go with the handguards, a crate of 7n1, and a couple mags I'm waiting on to find their way to me.

 

[fluffybunny]

When it comes to the stories of the SVD being inaccurate - a lot of it is down to ammo choice.

Take even the most accurate rifle and shoot the cheapest communist era milsurp through it and you will struggle to get 2moa !!

I have a UK spec straight pull SVD in .308 with a 4x scope - easily achieves 1 moa with decent ammo.

 

[FLReload]

Better Optic and hand loads defiantly will get the SVD to under 1 MOA.

 

[LRRPF52]

I've worked with them a bit. It is not an inherently accurate design. What I do like about the SVD is that it is very lightweight, balanced, and maneuverable for its length. The stock is way too short for a Northern Germanic Tribesman, and most Russians I know, but there is a rubber buttplate that can change that.

One of the most rare Basic Inventory Items for the SVD is the remote power system for the PSO-1 scope for arctic conditions. It's a battery box with cable that you keep in your coat/winter clothing, with a wire that routes to the PSO-1 to power the reticle....and it's an utter piece of garbage that appears to be made by a drunk who took the reject electronic components from a 3rd-world, back-alley bazaar electronics shop, and put them together. Needless to say, the system doesn't work well, like the rifle.

In one of the coalition partner nations, they have SVD's in inventory as a semi-auto DM Rifle. They take 10-12 of them during some of their training events, and will find maybe 2 that shoot well, and then everyone wants to hose away with those on reactive targets out to about 600m, but using very high quality, brass-cased ammunition that was never in the Soviet system.

I always thought about having one blue-printed, drop-in a quality US barrel, free-float the gas tube, install a quality trigger with no creep or over-travel, and chamber it in 6.5x53R just to mess with my Russian and Ukrainian friends, but the local police would most likely rob me of such a weapon.

 

[Hunbramericano]

Not a new topic but I have a few things to add.
I have seen real military SVD doing demonstration by a Russian sniper put 3 bullets through a hole at 100 meter. The size of the hole was 2 cm =0.8 inch. The military version is sub-moa with the right ammo.
The civilian version TIGR is almost as good. (almost) They changed minor things at the factory.
Romanian PSL has none to do with SVD other than appearance. It was made for being able to reach out with a slightly better accuracy than the AK but not even designated as sniper or DMR. Some screwed up military they may do designate but they designate there people with a sling too so please don't take it personal that I attacked your favorite toy.

The SVD's value is based as collector items not because their usefulness. They are way outdated. For a civilian TIGR you will pay at least $5,000 and for a real military SVD (I think they supposed to have +-100 in the country) above $15,000.

Romanian PSL used to be in the $500-$800 range. Now, some people using the buzz word SVD and Dragunov pumped up the value ridiculously.
While in the SVD you can use heavier ammo (above 150 gr) in the PSL you will have a guaranteed catastrophic failure.
If you want an SVD "wannabe" get a VEPR. Much better quality and cheaper.

If you want a good precision gun from GAP to LMT there is a large selection that runs circles around the SVD in both quality and precision for a fraction of the price.
Just my 2 cent.

 

[Hunbramericano]

Had one miss my face by about four inches at 400m, I'm glad they suck.

I am curious when did you fight Russians?
The next closest would be the Chinese and I don't remember being with them in war neither.
I have a Russian friend who was a sniper with SVD. They put cans the size of a coffee cups at 500 meter and the guy needed to shoot into it repeating. When he missed the instructor hit his leg with a wood whip that makes pain enough to shit in your pants. Respectfully for your service, I have doubt that you had those guys shooting at you, or if they did you wouldn't be here to talk about it.
PSL or a Tabuk or some similar junk are more likely.

 

[WildBill3/75]

I am curious when did you fight Russians?
The next closest would be the Chinese and I don't remember being with them in war neither.
I have a Russian friend who was a sniper with SVD. They put cans the size of a coffee cups at 500 meter and the guy needed to shoot into it repeating. When he missed the instructor hit his leg with a wood whip that makes pain enough to shit in your pants. Respectfully for your service, I have doubt that you had those guys shooting at you, or if they did you wouldn't be here to talk about it.
PSL or a Tabuk or some similar junk are more likely.

Hey jackass in case you did not know we have been at war in the middle east for over 10 years. All the Russian small arms from Mosin 91/30's to dshk's have been used against our troops.

....Romanian PSL you fucking kidding me.... just because you can't find a Russian SVD in your local gunshop doesn't mean there isn't a fair amount of them in use by the enemy.

 

[scatsob]

Seriously, no awareness in that post. Do a simple image search in Google some time moron. There are pictures of PILES of SVD's that were ultimately destroyed by our troops. It's just too bad they couldn't have been cut up and shipped here as parts kits to be rebuilt.

 

[Hunbramericano]

Hey jackass

I appreciate you being polite and stick with the subject. I am aware of the war in the Middle East but i am also aware of the weapons that are being used. No, you will not find Russian military SVD's in the middle east unless somebody paid some extreme black market price for it. that is possible but extremely unlikely, and even if they do they have some ridiculously shitty surplus ammo available.
My "local" gunshop? I lived in 4 countries and traveled above 80, so could you be specific which gun-shop is my local?
I had AK's and PSL's in my hand when you were not even born, and actually they thought us how to break them down and put back again in school as children.
I might be a jackass or worst, but I never call people I don't know shit about any names. There are dozens of SVD looking or copied variants out in the world and none, not even the Chinese come close to the real Russian made. You compare $100 AK's and $30 Mosins to SVDs?
I can show you dozens of pictures with captured "snipers" by US Military from Middle Eastern countries, you can find them around the Internet. You will not show me one with an SVD.
You like it or not there are shit load of Romanian PSL out there in the Middle East and lot of Tabuk, some Norinco ..etc. The former Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceaușescu had quiet good relation with some of the Arabic countries and sold planty of weapons to them.

 

[Hunbramericano]

image search in Google some time moron.

I am about to cancel my login to this site due to to name callings as "jackass" and "moron".
Maybe I am too sensitive but I take it little personally when people give opinions on shit they don't have the slightest freaking idea about.
You look at a Tabuk and you cry "SVD". You look at a modified AK and you cry Dragunov.
I can image search and I can tell you by the handles and the magazines even from distance that they are NOT SVD's. You will find in some sheik collection most likely SVD's than on the streets with opposition forces.

You guys are way out of line and instead of name calling should be reasoning.

 

[scatsob]

Now you are not giving us enough credit, you think we don't know what an SVD is???. Go do your search again and you will find PLENTY of pictures on SVS being used or confiscated in the middle east. I am talking SVD, not a tabuk, not an M76, not a PSL, not an AK but an actual SVD. I know what an SVD is and have owned all of the rifles I mentioned. Hell, they even have an SVD in an armory here on base that is a demo gun for the young troops that was brought back from Afghanistan.

 

[WildBill3/75]

I am about to cancel my login to this site due to to name callings as "jackass" and "moron".
Maybe I am too sensitive but I take it little personally when people give opinions on shit they don't have the slightest freaking idea about.
You look at a Tabuk and you cry "SVD". You look at a modified AK and you cry Dragunov.
I can image search and I can tell you by the handles and the magazines even from distance that they are NOT SVD's. You will find in some sheik collection most likely SVD's than on the streets with opposition forces.

You guys are way out of line and instead of name calling should be reasoning.

I appreciate you being polite and stick with the subject. I am aware of the war in the Middle East but i am also aware of the weapons that are being used. No, you will not find Russian military SVD's in the middle east unless somebody paid some extreme black market price for it. that is possible but extremely unlikely, and even if they do they have some ridiculously shitty surplus ammo available.
My "local" gunshop? I lived in 4 countries and traveled above 80, so could you be specific which gun-shop is my local?
I had AK's and PSL's in my hand when you were not even born, and actually they thought us how to break them down and put back again in school as children.
I might be a jackass or worst, but I never call people I don't know shit about any names. There are dozens of SVD looking or copied variants out in the world and none, not even the Chinese come close to the real Russian made. You compare $100 AK's and $30 Mosins to SVDs?
I can show you dozens of pictures with captured "snipers" by US Military from Middle Eastern countries, you can find them around the Internet. You will not show me one with an SVD.
You like it or not there are shit load of Romanian PSL out there in the Middle East and lot of Tabuk, some Norinco ..etc. The former Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceaușescu had quiet good relation with some of the Arabic countries and sold planty of weapons to them.

I have deployed to Iraq twice and Afghanistan twice when the fighting was high.

I have first hand fondled these soposidly nonexistent Russian SVD's you claim not to exist.

I stand by my "jackass" comment.

In case I have not dumbed it down enough for you my interpretation of "jackass";being you in this sense is as follows,

One who calls a combat vet full of shit, as you did in your 1st post. Being completely ignorant about weapons in use by enemys of the United States and being unable to admit that you fucked up and were talking out of your ignorant ass.

 

[Victory]

It was a real SVD, we debated about it for a week until one of the guys got an Id on the engravings on it. I actually thought it was a PSL until he proved me wrong. As for fighting Russians, there were plenty of Chechens and that's close enough.

 

[yellowfin]

If you can touch them, they're real, eh?

Anyway, back to the whole issue of whether the design is inherently accurate and how much can be corrected with ammo. I'm in the middle of cooking up some x54R handloads to see what can be done out of that round when treated with proper respect. Wish I had an SVD but for the moment I'm settling with a PSL I had built from a kit for a very reasonable price. (Admittedly I couldn't afford a .308 AR at the time.)

I'd be VERY curious as to what a US made SVD could do with the standards of manufacturing being better. Anyone know what happened to that company that was wanting to do them? I'd read elsewhere that someone, them or another, had bought Norinco's tooling but hit a snag like running out of money. If a Russian/Chinese with good ammo is MOA'ish, what would a US made rifle do? Think about that in reverse: would a Russian or Chinese .308 AR be as accurate as a LaRue or Noveske? I'm thinking a US SVD could be incredible if you put a Shilen or Hart barrel on it.

 

[LRRPF52]

Many SVD's were captured in the Soviet-Afghan War of 1979-1989.

Many SVD's were captured or already in inventory in Chechnya and Dagestan from the Soviet times. They are found in CENTCOM by US and Coalition forces.

Here's one that belonged to the KGB Station Chief in Helsinki, sold for profit after the fall of the Soviet Union:



Video

 

[sinister]

Think about that in reverse: would a Russian or Chinese .308 AR be as accurate as a LaRue or Noveske? I'm thinking a US SVD could be incredible if you put a Shilen or Hart barrel on it.

I do not recall the magazine but someone had a quality US barrel installed on an SVD but don't remember the results.

I sent 2 Special Forces ODAs to teach a sniper course in India. Army units had SVDs and one had HK PSG-1s. I was surprised to hear several of the SVD-equipped snipers out-shot some of those with the HKs.

It's still about the shooter, not the gadget.