Rifle Scopes SWFA 1-4X SS

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Utnapishtim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry to resurrect an old thread . . . But, any word on when these bad boys will be available? </div></div>

I hope it is getting close. I've been told that both reticules in capped or uncapped versions will be available. The brightness adjustment will have an "off" position between each setting and they are <span style="text-decoration: underline"> </span> tentatively <span style="text-decoration: underline"> </span> priced at $799.99. I think they are in the home stretch but I have no insider information. I do happen to have the two prototypes that were used in the photos above and will be field testing them at a variety of distances on several different rifles next week. These scopes are well worth the wait. If you read through this thread you will find that Hide members were listened to and had an influence on the design of the reticules. For those of you who questioned the need for FFP and mil/mil adjustments I can assure you there are reasons for this and will explain my thinking in the field test. I intend to spend several days at this test using IPSC cardboard and steel targets. If you would like to see a certain drill tried let me know. Test rifles are Colt M4 configuration, Colt A4 configuration, LMT MWS and M1A NM. I'm out of pocket regarding ammo so keep it reasonable. I expected a lot from these scopes and my expectations were not near high enough. I know of nothing on the market like them.

 

[J-Ham]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Prairie Dog Dundee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you read through this thread you will find that Hide members were listened to and had an influence on the design of the reticules.</div></div>
That is one of the biggest reasons I want one of these. Just seeing how responsive SWFA was to what people on here said was pretty amazing. I remember when the first reticles came out and everyone said, "No thanks." So the designers came back with two really kick-ass reticle choices. That just makes me want to do business with this company. It doesn't hurt that their scopes are awesome as well

.

 

[LAR Dragoon]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Any chance there will be a 1.5-8, or similar magnification released as well?

 

[Juanjo322]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

I was at SWFA a couple of days ago and saw through them and they are flippen awesome.. this may end up on my AR pretty soon.. Time will tell..


Thanks,

Juanjo

 

[primer]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Well I think this scope sucks..Mainly because 5 months ago I paid the money for a Nightforce 1-4..and wish I had this! I love the NF but that circle reticle on the SS is really nice.

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: primer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I think this scope sucks..Mainly because 5 months ago I paid the money for a Nightforce 1-4..and wish I had this! I love the NF but that circle reticle on the SS is really nice. </div></div>

Sell the NF when the SS 1-4 comes out and buy one of these. Seriously, I've got the prototypes right now and can't wait to get out and spend a few days with them. My way of thinking about "daylight visible" has changed completly after playing with these scopes the past few days. I now think of scopes like your NF as <span style="font-weight: bold">"daylight visible" </span> because yes you can see them in the daylight. However, they do not grab your eye like a red dot. You kind of have to go looking for small thin illuminated reticules. I now think of Aimpoint, TR24, Eotech and some ACOG as <span style="text-decoration: underline">"Daylight Practical"</span>. The new Super Snipers are <span style="font-weight: bold">"Daylight Practical"</span>.

 

[ker2222]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

I will be selling a mk4 1.5-5 to get one of these!!!!!

 

[Juanjo322]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: primer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I think this scope sucks..Mainly because 5 months ago I paid the money for a Nightforce 1-4..and wish I had this! I love the NF but that circle reticle on the SS is really nice. </div></div>


LOL, I just messed up my keyboard.. Thank you ..


Juanjo

 

[Snape315]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Well Color Me IMPRESSED!

I really like that large "donut" designed reticle. Depending on battery life and overall features & durability, I'm down for one.

And if you could make a 1-6x or 1-8x, that would be nice too.

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snape315</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well Color Me IMPRESSED!

I really like that large "donut" designed reticule. Depending on battery life and overall features & durability, I'm down for one.

And if you could make a 1-6x or 1-8x, that would be nice too.

</div></div>

I've been fondling the two prototypes for about a week. I'm finding both reticules to be very practical. The TEE reticule obstructs less of the view at long range but there is something about that circle that grabs and centers you attention very quickly. It is what I want after putting a few hundred rounds down range with each. Don't sell that 4X short. The glass is very good. I'm not saying it is equal to very good glass at higher power but I've been making moa or very near moa hits out to 700 yards with it. The photo shows a 700 yard target where the impacts measure 7 1/2 inches. I could see the target shake on impact and I could see the hit that is lowest on the target. The others were visible but hard to pick out individually. That is with my eyes and they are pushing 60 years old. This was using the circle reticule BTW.
[img

Uploaded with ImageShack.usimg]

 

[lrrifle]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Nice shooting! Cant wait to see how these stack up with the Vortex PST. You out by Granstville in that picture?

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lrrifle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice shooting! Cant wait to see how these stack up with the Vortex PST. You out by Granstville in that picture? </div></div>

Close, out off the old Poney Express trail west off all the No Shooting signs.

 

[lrrifle]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Great place out there... you can really stretch it out in some of the spots. Sounds like "two thumbs up" on the scopes, especially the circle reticle!

 

[Chiller]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Prairie Dog Dundee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lrrifle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice shooting! Cant wait to see how these stack up with the Vortex PST. You out by Granstville in that picture? </div></div>

Close, out off the old Poney Express trail west off all the No Shooting signs. </div></div>

5 mile area?

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Prairie Dog Dundee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lrrifle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice shooting! Cant wait to see how these stack up with the Vortex PST. You out by Granstville in that picture? </div></div>

Close, out off the old Poney Express trail west off all the No Shooting signs. </div></div>

5 mile area? </div></div>

Just past it. Five mile pass was good shooting country until the ATVs took over. Now there are big signs saying SAFETY AREA NO SHOOTING. I go a few miles past it but not all the way to Faust.

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lrrifle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great place out there... you can really stretch it out in some of the spots. Sounds like "two thumbs up" on the scopes, especially the circle reticle! </div></div>

From where I set up to the low hill shown it is 800 yards to its base. The hills you see behind the low one are about another 1400 yards. During the week I have it to myself. Weekends can get busy so I go further West.

"Two thumbs up and a trigger finger back" and then some on the scopes. I've owned a 10X original SS for years and have two of the 3-9X42 SWFA SS scopes and have lots of respect for the value SWFA offers in this line but these 1-4X HDs are more than I expected. I tend to think of scope in three categories; range toys, field grade and professional grade. I usually buy high field grade to lower professional grade scopes and these are better scopes than I usually buy. I was going to go out today and finish up running close range testing and box testing but with the weather I've had to switch to Thursday, (snow tomorrow). If you want to check them out imail me, same goes for you chiller.

 

[LOBO]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS


The donut reticle is great!!

 

[lrrifle]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

PM Sent

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lrrifle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PM Sent </div></div>

Back at ya

 

[BCP]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

I want the circle one for my 223.

1-6? Doubt it. 1.5-6 maybe, but 6 ratio magnification in a scope of that price range might be asking for a bit much. I would think 1-4/3-9/10 and then a 4-16 would be a more realistic lineup.

 

[g3ninfinite]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Really Really Want?

 

[uhcoog1]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Awesome new optic. Only making my 3 gun optic decision more difficult...

 

[J-Ham]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uhcoog1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Awesome new optic. Only making my 3 gun optic decision more difficult...</div></div>
Correction: I think it's making it easier

.

 

[_Shay_]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

This reticle is much like the last one but with the small posts in the middle solid instead of hollow. This makes it better to use on 1X with less of a "large empty center" and I find it makes it faster/easier to use on 4X as well as those hollow posts just didn't get the job done.

The next reticle is designed to be a bit faster at close range on 1X:

This particular prototype version has a bit of illumination overrun on the bottom post but that shouldn't be there for the production scopes. </div></div>

I really like that mil type reticle...

 

[eleaf]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

The doughnut reticle is the nuts.

This is the first time I've felt like I might have to stray from my Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x w/ Green Triangle.

I'll either trade up or, more likely, look to buy a short barrel AR when this becomes available.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

I have to say I'll definitely be picking up one of these to replace one of my NSN ACOGs at the house. The ACOG's fine BDC crosshair vs that doughnut reticle is a "no-brainer" for versatility.

 

[jmb1911]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

That reticle really is fantastic.

 

[Jon A]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

I had been meaning to update this for a while now, sorry for the delay, folks. First here are some pics to give you guys an idea what the reticles look like in open-spaces longer range use vs. the close range use of the pictures above. Please forgive some being out of focus--that's not a reflection of the optics of the scopes, I was just not having my best day with the camera.

100 yds, 12" Gong:

200 yds, 12" Gong:

300 yds, 15" Gong:

500 yds, 18X24" Gong:

Personally for this type of use, 100 yd+ on 4X, I like the T reticle better as it simply looks like a good tactical reticle you'd expect to find in a higher powered scope. Though I like the circle reticle better at close range on 1X.

Which one I like better I guess depends upon how I plan to use the scope the most. Luckily either will work for either use very well so it's hard to make a "wrong" choice. They're both very fast on 1X and at 4X both give a clear, uncluttered view of the target and about 25 mils around the target which few 1-4's that are fast on 1X provide.

OK, enough about the reticles. In the time I spent with these, the #2 biggest impression they made on me was the optics--specifically on 1X.

The S&B Short Dot is obviously very good. Despite being rated at 1.1X it's very easy and comfortable for me to use. My mind seems to pretty much cancel the difference in magnification through most of the FOV. Pretty much anything more than a few yards away I can look at with both eyes open and get a nice unity view through the scope--for most of the FOV.

Toward the edges of the FOV I see objects begin to separate and see them double, but only toward the edges. The "sweet spot" where I see objects as single entities is most of the FOV so I can use this scope well without really noticing the edges. There is a blue tint, but you don't really notice it too much unless you're comparing it side by side with the SS so it's not really a problem.

In short, it's hard to find much flaw with the Short Dot, obviously. It's a hell of a scope.

The SS, though, to my eyes provides an even better view on 1X. The "sweet spot" in these scopes is basically the entire FOV. With both eyes open I can track an object from the side, see it "enter the scope tube," track across the FOV and exit the tube with very little noticeable distortion of any sort. They provide the most "looking through the window of an Eotech or Aimpoint" or "looking through an empty tube" view I've seen. With both eyes open you need not do any mental tricks, concentrating on what one eye sees more, to have a very clear and undistorted view as if the scope wasn't there. There's no blue tint either.

The NF was a distant 3rd in this comparison. It's supposed to be a true 1X, so one might expect better. I don't know enough about optics to explain exactly what was the cause but it just doesn't agree with my eyes. With both eyes open I basically see double through it for most of the FOV. There is a small "sweet spot" right above center where objects look singular giving me a comfortable unity view, but it's very small. The rest of the FOV I see double much like I do with a 1.5X, 2X, etc, scope where I have to concentrate on disregarding what one of my eyes sees.

Naturally that makes it pretty uncomfortable and slower to use even disregarding reticle differences. Again, I don't know why or if they look that way to everybody, I can only report what my eyes see.

Anyway, to me the optical prowess of a 1-4X on 1X has to be right up there in importance, maybe only #2 to the reticle/illumination since their purpose is to try and be as close to a red dot in speed as possible. If your brain takes extra time to process what you're seeing, that's a disadvantage.

I guess this is a case where there's more to the story than the spec sheet will tell you. I highly encourage anybody shopping for a 1-4X who plans to use it on 1X much to look through as many models/brands as you can side by side before buying.

 

[lrrifle]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Excellent points, and I have to agree with the preference for the "T" at longer ranges and the "Circle" at the shorter ranges/lower power.

Though it seems you can't really go wrong with either reticle I guess that the best way from me to look at it is which reticle is the LEAST distracting on it's weakest (in my opinion) range/power.

Or in other words (again just for me) does the advantage of the "T" at longer ranges make up for the distraction that is is for me when illuminated and on 1x for fast, close-in stuff. And conversely, does the disadvantage that the the Circle is at long range/4x, negate the speed that I can get with it at 1x illuminated? I was really impressed with it when I played with it at the indoor range, and speed (compared to my aimpoints and eotech) was very close, if not equal.

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

JonA and lrrifle made some excellent points regarding the reticle design. I think that these reticles and switching between two functionally different reticles via the characteristics of the FFP feature are so new and so different that it is going to take some time to be fully appreciated by shooters. I was fortunate enough to spend two full days in the desert and three indoor range sessions consuming nearly 600 rounds of ammunition with these scopes and I don't think I fully appreciate all aspects of the reticle. For example in my short range testing I thought the Circle would come out on top. It beat the Tee reticle in speed, (marginally) but the high score went to the Tee. I did some informal testing from 50 yards out to about 325 yards where I wanted to see what the results of a "snap shot" (some prone, some standing, some kneeling depending on the range) when I had the magnification in the "wrong" setting for the shot. In other words a 50 yard shot at 4X and a 300 yard shot at 1X. I did not keep score or put the timer on these "drills", (in retrospect I wish I had). But my impressions were the circle set at 4X was much better up close because it grabs your eye and centers it. The Tee set at 1X was much better at distance because the "ghost" cross hair stands out a bit better. Right now I concur with lrrifle in that I think the circle has the short range advantage and the Tee has the long range advantage. But both exceed my expectation from 10 yards out to 800 yards.

I have seen comments from people who don't like the thickness of the lines and circles. IMO they are a functional part of the design. They grab your eye at 1X short range shooting and move out of the way when not needed at 4X. I first noticed this when using the SWFA SS 3-9X42 at 3X.

I like JonA's analogy of the glass is like looking out "an open window". I found it to be excellent.

The finish is also very good. I know that JonA had the same scopes I had and had them mounted. I put rings on them. Yet when I sent them back I could see no ring marks. JonA is in the mount business and is undoubtedly better at mounting scopes than I. I own scopes that I have left rings on in a single mounting. Yet I did not mar the finish on these scopes.

For those of you that own an older SWFA SS 10X and found the adjustments a bit mushy and maybe the turret markings did not quite line up with the marks on the turret mounting barrel, forget about it regarding these scopes. I like my old SS 10X but these new SS HD scopes are designed and built to compete with the big boys. It is an excellent design well executed. The adjustments are crisp and offer just the right resistance. Setting indication marks on the turrets and barrel line up perfectly. If you don't like exposed turrets both reticle styles will be available in exposed or capped models.

Thanks for the new photos Jon. I gotta take my hat off to you. I tried taking some through the tube shots and I'd be embarrassed to post them.

Lrrifle, you are the only trained professional, i know, who has used these scopes on a fully automatic SBR. did these SS 1-4 offer any challenges different to a red dot? Just curious.

 

[lrrifle]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

PDD:
Good question. In our range session I initially found the "T" reticle to be very busy to my eye on 1x and at the ranges we were shooting (25yds and under). Not that it didn't work, just had to overcome the slight distraction that the reticle design has at 1x. The "Circle" reticle seems less "busy" to my eye, and subjectively, seemed to be faster to acquire the close range targets at 1x. (Maybe its just that my eye is trained to "put the circle on the target" and it's simply a familiarity thing!) I remember when I first transitioned from an Aimpoint to an Eotech... I thought the same thing... a little busier that I was used to, but not so much that i didn't/couldn't overcome it with training.

I expect that either of the new SS 1-4 reticles will be the same... with practice either will be fine... just some subjectivity on which the individual likes better.

Another point... speed (for me) is best determined with multiple shoot/no-shoot targets on a dynamic range. We don't spend too much time on a static, square-range, so the limits of the indoor range rules (and 25-yd max distance)felt constrictive to really wring out these scopes.

With that being said though, in my opinion, any short-dot type scope is going to be a bit bulkier than a simple red-dot/aimpoint type optic. That would change to about equal if you include a 3x magnifier. Additionally, the "scope" characteristics and tube length/effect seem like they would not be as flexible or forgiving as an Aimpoint/Eotech regarding head position and angle.

Bottom line: Would I put it on my dedicated entry weapon? Probably not (but not definitely no). Would I replace the long-range variable optic on my sniper-rifle with it? No. But the reason I want a 1-4x is to bridge the gap between those two dedicated optical tools... basically I look at a 1-4x like these as the "cresent-wrench" in my optical/tactical tool-box. And, though I've considered the stand-alone 3x optical magnifiers that both Aimpoint and Eotech make, I'm not interested in a "red-dot" aiming point that is 3x the normal size (which would be 3 - 12 MOA depending on which model of optic you were using.)

Again, all this is just my opinion, and i really appreciate the observations that you and JonA have posted.

I gotta say too, that I'm waiting for Frank's review of the Vortex with some anticipation. But am VERY impressed with the SS 1-4 FFP bringing out a full-size mil reticle at 4x. It's great that we will have a few new great choices in 1-4x optics in the next few months!! The kicker would be objective, measurable side by side comparisons between the SS and Vortex!

 

[Goot]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Tagged

Looking forward to preorder details later, thanks!

 

[pilotguy299]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lrrifle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

But the reason I want a 1-4x is to bridge the gap between those two dedicated optical tools... basically I look at a 1-4x like these as the "cresent-wrench" in my optical/tactical tool-box.

And, though I've considered the stand-alone 3x optical magnifiers that both Aimpoint and Eotech make, I'm not interested in a "red-dot" aiming point that is 3x the normal size (which would be 3 - 12 MOA depending on which model of optic you were using.)
</div></div>

if you put a 3x behind the eotech, it doesn't change from a 1 moa dot to a 3 moa dot. since the magnifier attributes 3x to the red dot and the target, the red dot is still 1 moa relative to the target.

 

[Heltsley]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS


I placed my order for one an hour or two ago.

Time to hury up and wait.

 

[pilotguy299]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heltsley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I placed my order for one an hour or two ago.

Time to hury up and wait.

</div></div>

which one?

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heltsley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I placed my order for one an hour or two ago.

Time to hury up and wait.

</div></div>

Thanks for the heads up. The SWFA SS 1-4 HD, all four models, is now shown on the SWFA site.

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-Scopes-C1719.aspx

I don't know what the status is. But I do know if they get into a back order situation the military guys go to the front of the line.

 

[Heltsley]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS


I got the Illuminated T with the exposed knobs. It is close to what I was use to. I have used the C3 reticals and prefer to just have the T with the Mil markings in the center.

 

[maladat]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Thanks for the heads up! I just ordered an uncovered turret donut reticle scope. I think it's going to replace the TA01B ACOG and Aimpoint T-1 on my "game gun" and I'm going to put the Aimpoint on a lightweight carbine upper and sell the ACOG.

 

[stinkyDrunk]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

order page is up

Edit - sorry didn't see this was already posted, stupid phone

So you guys who have ordered, can we get some more feedback on the daylight visibility of the illuminated reticle when your optics arrive? TIA

 

[19818119]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

TTT, would be interested in new owner reviews, many thanks.
Rath

 

[maladat]

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

I called SWFA and they said they expected to be shipping these some time between the end of this month and the end of February depending on how long customs holds their shipment.