Switch barrel hybrid

[Chaps5800]

I am considering a build for hunting and some occasional long range target work.
Probably something like a Sendero profile.

I am thinking a 6.5 PRC and 300 WSM for the two barrels. I think this would scratch many itches. I have many others to choose from. But, thinking this would be a fun combo.
Any thoughts on caliber choice and action recommendations?

 

[shoots100]

Excellent cartridge selection.
Here's a link you should read.
Custom Build

 

[Chaps5800]

Excellent cartridge selection.
Here's a link you should read.
Custom Build

Thanks! I’ll check it out.

 

[wind gypsy]

I don’t understand why you’d bother with a second cartridge. What does a 300 wsm do better than a 6.5 PRC other than recoil more and have a longer barrel life? Also, you’d be best served with a medium action in those cartridges which can be a little limiting on actions/mags/stocks.

 

[Chaps5800]

I don’t understand why you’d bother with a second cartridge. What does a 300 wsm do better than a 6.5 PRC other than recoil more and have a longer barrel life? Also, you’d be best served with a medium action in those cartridges which can be a little limiting on actions/mags/stocks.

It’s an excuse to add to the reloading bench and experiment with something new, honestly. Lol

 

[fdkay]

I don’t understand why you’d bother with a second cartridge. What does a 300 wsm do better than a 6.5 PRC other than recoil more and have a longer barrel life? Also, you’d be best served with a medium action in those cartridges which can be a little limiting on actions/mags/stocks.

Yeah, because all of those 200+ grain offerings in 6.5

 

[45-90]

I always thought switching barrels might be a good idea, from time to time.

But I never do it... cause one can just add a chassis and ya have two complete rifles with no hassles.

So to me,...usually... It seems only a good idea for the AR platform. Pull two pins slap on a new upper.

Nothing wrong with building several rifles at one time... I do it all the time..
If you don't have every caliber and s few wildcats,... keep building.

The fun is in the building and experimenting. So build a switch barrel with a bunch of calibers... swap out bolts and go Lapua mag to 223...
On a long action? Maybe....or build something wild noone else has, try to reach 5000 fps for squirrels in your area.
With hybrid cases necked down to 17, 20, 22, or 6mm cal.
Maybe a .510 Whisper for those stealthily times. The fun has only just begun.

 

[diggler1833]

After I got my AT-X, I found that I needed the ability to switch barrels in my life. It is perfect *for me* to be able to swap a barrel, and do the brass prep and barrel cleaning while I'm shooting the other.

I actually went with an older Surgeon 1086 for my second switch barrel project that I'm currently undertaking. Yes, it takes a vice and action wrench instead of the simple QC bolt - but I'm fine with that.

OP: for the "fun combo", there's nothing wrong with 6.5 PRC and 300 WSM. Get a wide channel for the target barrel, and the hunting barrel will fit easily. My 1086 came with an almost new 24" 300WM barrel that I guess I will use for hunting (I bought the rifle used), and I'm probably going to do some sort of 28" 7mm for target use.

 

[Chaps5800]

After I got my AT-X, I found that I needed the ability to switch barrels in my life. It is perfect *for me* to be able to swap a barrel, and do the brass prep and barrel cleaning while I'm shooting the other.

I actually went with an older Surgeon 1086 for my second switch barrel project that I'm currently undertaking. Yes, it takes a vice and action wrench instead of the simple QC bolt - but I'm fine with that.

OP: for the "fun combo", there's nothing wrong with 6.5 PRC and 300 WSM. Get a wide channel for the target barrel, and the hunting barrel will fit easily. My 1086 came with an almost new 24" 300WM barrel that I guess I will use for hunting (I bought the rifle used), and I'm probably going to do some sort of 28" 7mm for target use.

Great thought on barrel channel

 

[45-90]

Great thought on barrel channel

Yep, that's why I use the aluminum chassis, several chassis, long action /short action will cover alot of barreled actions, skinny to bull barrels.
Then some barreled actions have a common contour like the popular Rem Varmit contour.
Which will allow one to inter change barreled actions with that stock, containing the aluminum bedding block.
Many options to consider.

 

[wind gypsy]

Yeah, because all of those 200+ grain offerings in 6.5

What do those 200+ grain offerings get you besides more recoil? Maybe if you believe a heavy 6.5 isn’t adequate terminally but I don’t believe that. You trying to shoot a 230 from a 300 wsm? If you’re not, you’re not getting a meaningful BC bump over 150 class 6.5s.

 

[fdkay]

What do those 200+ grain offerings get you besides more recoil? Maybe if you believe a heavy 6.5 isn’t adequate terminally but I don’t believe that. You trying to shoot a 230 from a 300 wsm? If you’re not, you’re not getting a meaningful BC bump over 150 class 6.5s.

Mass = energy.
Some folks prefer heavy bullets.
Besides, it's his rifle.
Personally, I'd go with God's caliber, the 7mm.
It's like a Thai ladyboy, best of both worlds.

 

[Baron85]

Why not a smaller cartridge that’s cheaper and better barrel life for one barrel and then the 6.5prc or 300wsm for your hunting barrel?????

I would do a 223/223ai and 6.5prc for the hunting barrel.

I am in the process of doing something similar. I just received my Kelbly nanook with 16” 22br and planning on a 22” 6.5cm for big game hunting.

Also just got an origin action with a 223 and 6dasher barrel to use as my backup match rifle.

For actions, I’m really impressed with my origins so far and the ease and expense of changing the bolt head instead of a whole new bolt is awesome! A new Kelbly bolt is $500 which is what swayed me to stick with 6.5cm instead of my original plan of 6.5prc to save on buying the new bolt.

 

[Chaps5800]

Why not a smaller cartridge that’s cheaper and better barrel life for one barrel and then the 6.5prc or 300wsm for your hunting barrel?????

I would do a 223/223ai and 6.5prc for the hunting barrel.

I am in the process of doing something similar. I just received my Kelbly nanook with 16” 22br and planning on a 22” 6.5cm for big game hunting.

Also just got an origin action with a 223 and 6dasher barrel to use as my backup match rifle.

For actions, I’m really impressed with my origins so far and the ease and expense of changing the bolt head instead of a whole new bolt is awesome! A new Kelbly bolt is $500 which is what swayed me to stick with 6.5cm instead of my original plan of 6.5prc to save on buying the new bolt.

I’ve already scratched the itch on practice type rifles for practice/cheaper to shoot, types.
This is really just a new idea I dreamed up. I would like to see what I could stretch out of a short action and still have something to hunt with. I have many heavies, so I thought it might be fun to try with something lighter.

 

[NateVA]

Mass = energy.

It's been beat to death but energy isn't a good predictor of terminal performance. OP unless you're hunting grizzly bears or going to Africa, you won't need more than a 6.5PRC to kill stuff even at long distances. Just use a bullet that functions well terminally and has a generous minimum impact velocity, like an ELD-M. As it relates to action choice, medium actions help a bit with 6.5PRC or so I've heard.

 

[fdkay]

It's been beat to death but energy isn't a good predictor of terminal performance. OP unless you're hunting grizzly bears or going to Africa, you won't need more than a 6.5PRC to kill stuff even at long distances. Just use a bullet that functions well terminally and has a generous minimum impact velocity, like an ELD-M. As it relates to action choice, medium actions help a bit with 6.5PRC or so I've heard.

I don't care.
Some folks want more energy.
I have had poor bullet performance from ELD X bullets, admittedly, they did kill the game.
Two pigs, about 88 yards away.
7-08 with 162 ELD X. Three shots, not a single bullet held together.

 

[NateVA]

I don't care.
Some folks want more energy.

As long as we distinguish that from needing more energy, then no arguments from me.

I have had poor bullet performance from ELD X bullets, admittedly, they did kill the game.
Two pigs, about 88 yards away.
7-08 with 162 ELD X. Three shots, not a single bullet held together.

Honestly ELD-X bullets have a very mixed reputation for terminal performance. ELD-Ms have a much better track record, though holding together isn't really the point.

 

[Maurygold]

I built an 18” 300 win mag as my long range rig that I hunt with. Shoots 215 hybrids at 2650.

 

[max-x]

Over the last dozen years I've tried to find a way that any short mag could outperform the plain vanilla 284 with a long barrel, and I have yet to discover those physics -

284 match chamber, 183gr+ offering, 27"+ barrel and 2800fps will be easy. Long action, standard boltface, and energy equivalence at all extended ranges.

The only place the 300 walks away is driving 215gr+ over 2800fps, which the WSM doesn't easily do.

The only thing the 6.5 world does well is outperforming the 308 win (..as the crowds shout blasphemy)

 

[NateVA]

Over the last dozen years I've tried to find a way that any short mag could outperform the plain vanilla 284 with a long barrel, and I have yet to discover those physics -

284 match chamber, 183gr+ offering, 27"+ barrel and 2800fps will be easy. Long action, standard boltface, and energy equivalence at all extended ranges.

The only thing the 6.5 world does well is outperforming the 308 win (..as the crowds shout blasphemy)

In regards to your comparison, the 6.5PRC with a 147gr ELD-M at 3000 fps MV seems to outperform a 190 A-Tip going at 2800 fps MV. The windage is either identical or within 0.1 depending on yardage past 500 and it has 0.5 MIL less drop at 1000.

 

[Chaps5800]

I’m grateful for the great discussion and input. None of my thoughts about the build is a need or must have. Just another itch to scratch. I know a LA is the easy button on these but just interested in what is possible from a SA. Also something lighter to pack around. But, in the words of a good friend “if your rifle is too heavy PT more and quit being a bitch” LOL.

 

[Chaps5800]

Another question, am I leaving accuracy on the table with a switch barrel? I can always just put it in the vice and swap prefits, never run anything quick change and it’s not a must.

 

[diggler1833]

Another question, am I leaving accuracy on the table with a switch barrel? I can always just put it in the vice and swap prefits, never run anything quick change and it’s not a must.

If your question is "am I giving up accuracy by using a QC barrel instead of a prefit installed via barrel vice?" - The answer to the layman is no.

My AI barrels are as consistently accurate as I am. Some of that answer is obviously subjective. If I were a quarter-minute shooter, then there might be a different answer. However I am not. What I can do with my barrels though, is string together 4-5 consecutive groups where accuracy is sub half-MOA. That's as good as I'll ever shoot, so that's as well as my barrels will ever shoot.

For the competitive benchrest crowd, there might be a different answer. But if you are routinely a 3/8 MOA + shooter, then I highly doubt you'll ever see the difference.

 

[wind gypsy]

I assume it varies based on what the “quick change” system is? Biggest possible nock I’ve heard of on some is the possibility of zero shift from hard bumps or contact to the barrel. Would expect no different in precision capability.

 

[NateVA]

I assume it varies based on what the “quick change” system is? Biggest possible nock I’ve heard of on some is the possibility of zero shift from hard bumps or contact to the barrel. Would expect no different in precision capability.

I'd be really interested for someone to do some impact testing with a Terminus Zeus that has the quick change feature.

 

[Chaps5800]

If your question is "am I giving up accuracy by using a QC barrel instead of a prefit installed via barrel vice?" - The answer to the layman is no.

My AI barrels are as consistently accurate as I am. Some of that answer is obviously subjective. If I were a quarter-minute shooter, then there might be a different answer. However I am not. What I can do with my barrels though, is string together 4-5 consecutive groups where accuracy is sub half-MOA. That's as good as I'll ever shoot, so that's as well as my barrels will ever shoot.

For the competitive benchrest crowd, there might be a different answer. But if you are routinely a 3/8 MOA + shooter, then I highly doubt you'll ever see the difference.

Thank you, that is exactly what I was wondering.

 

[brianf]

I’ve found I never switch when the cartridges are very close in performance.

Target stuff get a 308 barrel so it lasts etc
Long range or hunting get your magnum

Something like that.

 

[JR1200W3]

Another question, am I leaving accuracy on the table with a switch barrel?

No.

If you plan on using a barrel vise and action wrench to swap barrels, is it really a switch barrel? Semantics, it doesn't matter. But if that is how you plan on swapping barrels why would it be any difference in accuracy capability than a rifle you put together the same way and just didn't swap barrels on?

 

[Chaps5800]

No.

If you plan on using a barrel vise and action wrench to swap barrels, is it really a switch barrel? Semantics, it doesn't matter. But if that is how you plan on swapping barrels why would it be any difference in accuracy capability than a rifle you put together the same way and just didn't swap barrels on?

I was wanting a a quick change, like “switch lug” or a Zeus. But if I’m giving up a lot of accuracy in that kind of setup, I would just scrap the idea and use the old reliable vice and action wrench. I have never owned anything I can swap barrels in the field.

 

[JR1200W3]

I wouldn't trust the Barloc or switchlug. They're too many individual pieces with small locking parts. Those are exactly the types Wind Gypsy was talking about being vulnerable to barrel impacts. And frankly they're completely unnecessary. I have 7 switch barrel rifles and a wall of barrels. One is an AI. The other four are traditional actions and rifles that I've adapted to the role by just cutting AI prefit style barrel flats into. Screw the barrel into the assembled rifle by hand, put a crescent wrench (or torque wrench if you want to be a Timmy Try Hard) on the flat, grip the rifle with your legs/knees and give it one oogadooga. I am 6'3" and weigh 240lbs. I have to work out for my job 5 days a week. I have found I can apply 40-50ft/lbs with a manly oogadooga. That's it. Reverse to remove the barrel. No Barloc, switchknuckle, grub screw nonsense. Just torque the barrel on. I've tested 20, 30, and 40 ft lbs. Zero difference in accuracy. The barrel doesn't know the difference between those torque weights. I've even shot it hand tight - no difference. I don't even bother with a torque wrench anymore, I just use a crescent wrench.

I have this setup on 2 x TL3'S, 2 x Origins, a Tikka T3, and a RIMX. They all behave the same. I write the zero offsets down on the outside of my gun box and dial the offset. I order custom closed cell foam inserts from mycasebuilder.com with an extra barrel channel cut. This allows me to carry a second barrel to the range and I can swap barrels in less than a minute. Not a brag; literally under 60 secs. I found the RTZ to be better than the average shooters ability to maintain the same zero from day to day, position to position. I stole this idea from a compact sniper rifle proof of concept. See the Surgeon CSR as a reference. Same deal. I'm sure they stole.it.from someone else. Everyone thinks a switch barrels rifle needs to be some complicated magic gadget. We're just torquing barrels on here. We just figured out how to do it without a vise.

 

[FimRire RongLifle]

I'd be really interested for someone to do some impact testing with a Terminus Zeus that has the quick change feature.

I have two qcs I swap 223 6.5cr and 6.5prc and someday I'll add a 6mm in. I keep my rezero adjustments in a book for Cal changes then verify. However there are other variables unless as any weapon system everything is as consistent as possible especially ammunition.
I like the QC system but it didn't solve my problem of more rifles since now I have two. And you can always torque a full tenon barrel on if you want and use the zues anyway and I do see this done at elr light class. I've only been out to 1900 with my PRC rig and the carbonsix barrel has been repeatable. I'm at 3000+ with 24" in a m24 profile my setup for that is 11lb
In a lite chassis. Second gun happened because I had a spare ba comp.
You also don't need to use the grub screws the post above is correct. Hand spec for terminus is 35lbs if I recall I just give it a hard try and I use witnesss marks with markers out of optional paranoia. I've never had one 'move' . Essentially I'm shooting hand tight as above poster mentions.

 

[Chaps5800]

I wouldn't trust the Barloc or switchlug. They're too many individual pieces with small locking parts. Those are exactly the types Wind Gypsy was talking about being vulnerable to barrel impacts. And frankly they're completely unnecessary. I have 7 switch barrel rifles and a wall of barrels. One is an AI. The other four are traditional actions and rifles that I've adapted to the role by just cutting AI prefit style barrel flats into. Screw the barrel into the assembled rifle by hand, put a crescent wrench (or torque wrench if you want to be a Timmy Try Hard) on the flat, grip the rifle with your legs/knees and give it one oogadooga. I am 6'3" and weigh 240lbs. I have to work out for my job 5 days a week. I have found I can apply 40-50ft/lbs with a manly oogadooga. That's it. Reverse to remove the barrel. No Barloc, switchknuckle, grub screw nonsense. Just torque the barrel on. I've tested 20, 30, and 40 ft lbs. Zero difference in accuracy. The barrel doesn't know the difference between those torque weights. I've even shot it hand tight - no difference. I don't even bother with a torque wrench anymore, I just use a crescent wrench.

I have this setup on 2 x TL3'S, 2 x Origins, a Tikka T3, and a RIMX. They all behave the same. I write the zero offsets down on the outside of my gun box and dial the offset. I order custom closed cell foam inserts from mycasebuilder.com with an extra barrel channel cut. This allows me to carry a second barrel to the range and I can swap barrels in less than a minute. Not a brag; literally under 60 secs. I found the RTZ to be better than the average shooters ability to maintain the same zero from day to day, position to position. I stole this idea from a compact sniper rifle proof of concept. See the Surgeon CSR as a reference. Same deal. I'm sure they stole.it.from someone else. Everyone thinks a switch barrels rifle needs to be some complicated magic gadget. We're just torquing barrels on here. We just figured out how to do it without a vise.

JR, that is awesome information. Thank you. That is what someone would confirm. Now to start spending money.
Also, perfect torque specs definition! Lol

 

[Chaps5800]

I have two qcs I swap 223 6.5cr and 6.5prc and someday I'll add a 6mm in. I keep my rezero adjustments in a book for Cal changes then verify. However there are other variables unless as any weapon system everything is as consistent as possible especially ammunition.
I like the QC system but it didn't solve my problem of more rifles since now I have two. And you can always torque a full tenon barrel on if you want and use the zues anyway and I do see this done at elr light class. I've only been out to 1900 with my PRC rig and the carbonsix barrel has been repeatable. I'm at 3000+ with 24" in a m24 profile my setup for that is 11lb
In a lite chassis. Second gun happened because I had a spare ba comp.
You also don't need to use the grub screws the post above is correct. Hand spec for terminus is 35lbs if I recall I just give it a hard try and I use witnesss marks with markers out of optional paranoia. I've never had one 'move' . Essentially I'm shooting hand tight as above poster mentions.

Thanks for this. I’m starting to see $$$ signs roll with the confidence I was looking for.