Switch Barrel Technology

[arm017]

What is the current state of switch barrel technology? I was quite interested in employing this in an upcoming build, and I couldn't find a solid resource on the available offerings. From my research I have come to the conclusion that there are a handful of different options available that one would be able to get in order to have the ability to easily change barrels and calibers.

1. West Texas Ordinance - Switch Lug
2. Remage based platform
3. AI based switch barrel technology
4. Bug nut barrel nut system

Why is switch barrel technology not more popular?
What are the inherent drawbacks of these systems?


Many of these manufacturers claim no deleterious impact on accuracy. It seems WTO is a top choice for my platform, but it might serve the forum well to have a bit of a resource on each of the systems or others moving forward.

 

[morganlamprecht]

only downside ive heard from people is they dont want to have to hassle with possibly dickin something up if their gun is shooting well by changing barrels...they like to get a rifle shooting well then shoot it til the barrel craps

i wouldnt put the nut systems on the same level as the AI quicklock or WTO Switchlug...both the AI and WTO style are far more simple and dead nuts repeatable because they actually shoulder up on a machined shoulder, not an adjustable nut

myself on the other hand (running an AIAT), i like to be able to grab a 22 creed, 6slr, 6.5 creed, or 308 barrel...adjust my scope offset, and go to work...just depends on what i feel like shooting that day

 

[BurnOut]

So, switchbarrel setups are concepts that hold a great deal of appeal to me, because you get to use the same stock/chassis, trigger, optic, and action, and select the ballistics that best fit your application-of-the-moment. For someone who isn't made of money who has nonetheless managed to invest in a few nice pieces of gear, this is a stellar option, IMO. Instead of buying 3 cheap stocks, you buy 1 nice chassis... instead of 3 middle-of-the-road optics, you invest in 1 top-tier scope, etc... Add in the flexibility that you have with something like the DTA where you can run anything from .223 Rem to .338LM in the same platform, and it's damned tough to beat!!

In any event, regarding the Remage/Bugnut approach (they're really the same thing in practice), another user on here (in an older thread) mentioned a caveat... getting the headspacing consistent from one barrel install to the next... to which someone else then suggested using Rocksett or Loc-Tite to hold the barrel nut in position. It's an interesting idea, and one that I have not had an opportunity to try, so I cannot comment on the repeatability... but it's certainly something to think about/consider, IMO.

In regard to consistency/repeatability, I think that the DTA architecture is probably the best... for the simple reason that the headspacing is controlled by the barrel extension (similar in concept to an AR), thus removing that as a variable that can change from one installation of a particular barrel to the next. That said, the ergos of the DTA don't work for everyone (nor does the price, for that matter). Next up in terms of consistency, IMO, is the AI Quickloc... because it doesn't require the user to seat the barrel shoulder any more than hand tight, and the "pinching action" of the action threads is in the middle of the breach threading rather than at either end. Next up for me would be the WTO switchlug, which is very similar in concept to the AI system, but with the pinching action at the end of the action body. That leaves the barrel nut setups in last place, IMO...

That said, don't read that and think that I'm saying that rifles built with a barrel nut can't shoot, because there are TONS of examples of those that can... I just feel that for a switchbarrel rig, it is the least consistent architecture of those that have been mentioned.

 

[TheOE800]

Where does swappable bolt head fall in? i.e. Bighorn TL3.

 

[TC308]

If I were starting from scratch, I'd buy a tl3 or something similar with an integrated recoil lug and just buy shouldered barrels and use as a switch barrel setup. No need for nuts or head spacing issues. Then, as said above, one optic, trigger, chassis etc. And a few barrels.

 

[padom]

If I were starting from scratch, I'd buy a tl3 or something similar with an integrated recoil lug and just buy shouldered barrels and use as a switch barrel setup. No need for nuts or head spacing issues. Then, as said above, one optic, trigger, chassis etc. And a few barrels.

Exactly what he said!

Bighorn TL3, Bighorn action wrench and a vise or barrel clamp is all you need. The tolerances are so tight on the Bighorns the smith doesnt need you to keep sending your action in when you need a shouldered barrel spun up.... Want a 223, 6.5cm or 300win just swap barrel and bolt head. Bolt head swaps take 30sec...I know a few that do this and accuracy is dead nuts upon reinstalling the barrel.

 

[Sheldon N]

That's what I'm doing... twin Bighorn TL-3 actions with matching headspace, multiple shouldered barrels and bolt heads. Mix and match to your hearts content. Going to take a piece of square steel tube and bolt my barrel vise to it so I can attach to my trailer hitch. Shoot a practice barrel, swap over to a match barrel while still at the range, check zero then go shoot a match.

 

[arm017]

That makes a lot of sense. So is a WTO switch lug sufficient in this case with non-integral lug actions? Or is there some other inherent benefit to an integral lug based action with tight tolerances?

 

[BurnOut]

If I were starting from scratch, I'd buy a tl3 or something similar with an integrated recoil lug and just buy shouldered barrels and use as a switch barrel setup. No need for nuts or head spacing issues. Then, as said above, one optic, trigger, chassis etc. And a few barrels.

That's the plan for my next build. I'm thinking something like 6.5 Addiction and .280AI.

 

[Sig Marine]

That makes a lot of sense. So is a WTO switch lug sufficient in this case with non-integral lug actions? Or is there some other inherent benefit to an integral lug based action with tight tolerances?

One advantage of the WTO is that it's basically done without tools. Barrels are installed handtight and then the clamp is torqued. No need for a barrel vice or action wrench or ft/lb torque wrench to remove or install barrels.

 

[TC308]

I'm building my 28 nosler on a bighorn, and plan to have multiple barrels I'm the future

 

[arm017]

So it seems a lot of love for bighorn, but can someone explain how you're able to swap barrels without worrying over headspace? This video on the TL3 is talking about how you are still having to account for headspace. So are we using some sort of barrel nut with the TL3 actions?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSM3CYOcGgI

 

[Sheldon N]

Bighorn has been remarkably consistent in their machining of actions and bolts. They won't give you an official guarantee that all actions are identical but some gunsmiths are so confident in the consistency they are willing to offer a shouldered barrel that is cut to match the TL3 specs with out ever having the action in hand.

An example of this consistency is a match I shot a couple weekends ago. My firing pin broke but I was able to swap out the entire bolt with a fellow TL3 shooter and continue the match. Gun ran great, headspace matched perfectly, checked the fired brass afterward.

Even if there were some small variation, your gunsmith can keep a specific action's specifications on file so if you want another barrel they just chamber it and set the shoulder to match those measurements and it will headspace perfectly when you screw it on. You could do this with any action, it's how most people buy replacement barrels... call their gunsmith, order another one, screw it on. The TL3 just has the advantage of swappable bolt faces and very consistent machining - that's why I can run a pair of them and not worry about which barrel goes on which action.

 

[ShtrRdy]

I had taken a picture of the barrel clamping feature on the AI AT. Thought it might be useful in this thread.

 

[Clint E.]

I had taken a picture of the barrel clamping feature on the AI AT. Thought it might be useful in this thread.

Thanks for posting this pic. How does this work? Does it clamp the threads when the cross bolt is tightened? Or does the bolt keep the barrel from backing out somehow? Just curious if I could convert my non quick-change AX to quick change.

 

[Supersubes]

Thanks for posting this pic. How does this work? Does it clamp the threads when the cross bolt is tightened? Or does the bolt keep the barrel from backing out somehow? Just curious if I could convert my non quick-change AX to quick change.

Just clamps the barrel threads. No, you cannot convert a previous model.

 

[powdahound76]

You can use an action without an integral lug and you will want it double pinned so you dont have to dick with timing it.
I really like the Bighorn for a switchbarrel for my needs after reading so much on here from guys who actually shoot and know stuff.

Its on the list after Mike Bush gives us the lowdown on his new RF action.......

 

[knockemdown]

Price savings aside...
For sheer simplicity, isn't easier to just swap a complete bolt out, over changing a bolt head back & forth?

 

[Dlwheel]

Price savings aside...
For sheer simplicity, isn't easier to just swap a complete bolt out, over changing a bolt head back & forth?

It takes like 10 sec to change a bolt head on the TL3's. It takes 10 minutes to change a barrel.

Accuracy, repeatability is within .1mil
This has held true with a Lapua Dasher; a Norma Dasher; a 6x47; all spun by Josh-PVA.
The 223 barrel I just received has been the only barrel giving me problems.

 

[IOWASHOOTER]

It takes like 10 sec to change a bolt head on the TL3's. It takes 10 minutes to change a barrel.

Accuracy, repeatability is within .1mil
This has held true with a Lapua Dasher; a Norma Dasher; a 6x47; and a 6.5SAUM.

The 223 barrel I just receive from Josh (PVA) has been the only barrel that I can't trust.

Interested to hear why you can't trust that one. Where are the other barrels from?

 

[Sig Marine]

I don't know how changing/switching barrels gets much easier than this, see video below. In talking with Clayton, the SwitchLug can be installed on Bighorns without issue. The only advantage of the SwitchLug over conventional methods of doing a barrel swap is not having to use a barrel vise and action wrench as both methods are using a shouldered barrel that sets the headspace.

WTO SwitchLug video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjHqB6WMzVM

 

[arm017]

I don't know how changing/switching barrels gets much easier than this, see video below. In talking with Clayton, the SwitchLug can be installed on Bighorns without issue. The only advantage of the SwitchLug over conventional methods of doing a barrel swap is not having to use a barrel vise and action wrench as both methods are using a shouldered barrel that sets the headspace.

WTO SwitchLug video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjHqB6WMzVM

I agree; This is what I had settled upon originally, and partly why I started the conversation regarding what else is available. The thread has got me looking in to the TL3 hard.
What would be the argument against using the WTO Switch Lug? I am assuming thread engagement would be less comparably?

 

[BurnOut]

Looking at the Cadex website, it looks like they now have a multi-caliber offering: https://www.cadexdefence.com/products/cdx-precision-rifles/cdx-mc-kraken/

There doesn't seem to be very much information on the mechanism that allows for caliber switching, but looking at the barrel change tool kit (https://www.cadexdefence.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/tool-kit1-kraken-options-2.jpg), the inclusion of a 100 ft/lb torque wrench seems to indicate that they're likely not using any sort of clamping mechanism, but are instead just seating shouldered barrels against the recoil lug/action.

 

[TheOE800]

WTO SwitchLug video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjHqB6WMzVM

That poor torque screwdriver...

 

[scudzuki]

Exactly what he said!

Bighorn TL3, Bighorn action wrench and a vise or barrel clamp is all you need. The tolerances are so tight on the Bighorns the smith doesnt need you to keep sending your action in when you need a shouldered barrel spun up.... Want a 223, 6.5cm or 300win just swap barrel and bolt head. Bolt head swaps take 30sec...I know a few that do this and accuracy is dead nuts upon reinstalling the barrel.

Barrels made for TL3 actions can be swapped between TL3 actions because the shoulder to boltface dimension is extremely uniform from action to action, like AI actions. This makes prefit barrels an option for TL3s.

However, barrels can be made without having the action in hand for any action once the shoulder to boltface dimension for that action has been documented. I can (and have) made a 2nd barrel for a particular action without having the action in hand. Spun the barrel on when the action became available, headspaced perfectly (of course, math don't lie). Any competent smith can do the same.

 

[scudzuki]

I agree; This is what I had settled upon originally, and partly why I started the conversation regarding what else is available. The thread has got me looking in to the TL3 hard.
What would be the argument against using the WTO Switch Lug? I am assuming thread engagement would be less comparably?

The only thing preventing the barrel from loosening is small hardened pins in shear. Small diameter hardened pins like this are fairly brittle in my experience. I wouldn't be surprised to see reports of the pins breaking.

 

[Dlwheel]

Interested to hear why you can't trust that one. Where are the other barrels from?

I didn't mean it to be a slight on Josh. My son and I both got 223 barrels (Rock Creek 7.7t) as trainers. However my groups open up and become erratic at 600yds after first 10 shots (first two groups of five are within 1/2moa) with 10min downtime after each group. After two groups things become erratic. This is the only barrel I have that does this. I'm still testing. I'm about 150 shots in. It easily could be any number of things. Initial load is 24.5g 8208XBR w. 75g AMAX @ 2950fps. I'm probably spoiled how easy things have been with the Dashers and 6Lapua.
All barrels by PVA.

 

[padom]

Price savings aside...
For sheer simplicity, isn't easier to just swap a complete bolt out, over changing a bolt head back & forth?

No, a TL3 bolt head swaps in second. Push a pin out and swap heads and push the pin back in...

 

[TheGerman]

Get a Barrett MRAD already.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Desert Tech

 

[Bradu]

Price savings aside...
For sheer simplicity, isn't easier to just swap a complete bolt out, over changing a bolt head back & forth?

I went with a Defiance deviant and bought three bolts. Yeah it's a little more money but when you are talking about a build with 3 bolts and 3 barrels along with the rest of the parts/optic it really isn't worth worrying about. I have that switch barrel, another one on a trued 700 and a Desert Tech, the Desert Tech is by far the easiest but I know the ergonomics isn't for everyone. I want to try a switch lug from WTO and an AXMC but it won't happen anytime in the near future. I like having multiple calibers with the same rifle because it saves a lot of money and it doesn't take long to swap out even if you use a barrel vise and action wrench.

 

[3rdfocal]

For me it came down to Desert Tech vs AIAT. I wanted a purpose-built switch barrel "system" with off the shelf barrel options and really like the idea of hand-tight then clamped vs having to torque. Went with the AI, their quality really is pretty impressive. Running 308 and 243 barrels and they are very repeatable but I have noticed that they need to be retightened the same amount before being clamped. After figuring that out I indexed both barrels and just barely snug with a wrench to index them properly, now they repeat almost perfectly. Takes probably 5 mins to swap barrels doing it carefully.

Currently shooting 308 and 243, its nice to know that I could pick up say a 6.5 barrel from a local vendor and be shooting 6.5 by noon tomorrow. Just wish the AT could run short mags.

 

[Bradu]

Defiance's website says 350 for a replacement bolt but I don't remember them being that high. That is a complete bolt though.

 

[knockemdown]

I went with a Defiance deviant and bought three bolts. Yeah it's a little more money but when you are talking about a build with 3 bolts and 3 barrels along with the rest of the parts/optic it really isn't worth worrying about. I have that switch barrel, another one on a trued 700 and a Desert Tech, the Desert Tech is by far the easiest but I know the ergonomics isn't for everyone. I want to try a switch lug from WTO and an AXMC but it won't happen anytime in the near future. I like having multiple calibers with the same rifle because it saves a lot of money and it doesn't take long to swap out even if you use a barrel vise and action wrench.

Me too, multiple bolts for Defiance & Surgeon actions.
Easy as the Bighorn bolt head swap sounds, just can't think of a boltface change being any easier than sliding one bolt out, and another one in.

Thanks all for the replies...

 

[arm017]

I went with a Defiance deviant and bought three bolts. Yeah it's a little more money but when you are talking about a build with 3 bolts and 3 barrels along with the rest of the parts/optic it really isn't worth worrying about. I have that switch barrel, another one on a trued 700 and a Desert Tech, the Desert Tech is by far the easiest but I know the ergonomics isn't for everyone. I want to try a switch lug from WTO and an AXMC but it won't happen anytime in the near future. I like having multiple calibers with the same rifle because it saves a lot of money and it doesn't take long to swap out even if you use a barrel vise and action wrench.

So it is the same sort of scenario as previously discussed on the thread with Bighorn actions where you would need some of the action wrench/ tools to torque down the barrel to desired spec that allow it to function as a switch barrel type system based on the tight machine tolerances?

 

[brianf]

there have been switch barrel actions around for ever. just get any old action and have it trued and the recoil lug pinned, a few used bolts that are cheaper than a case of beer and your done. have the smith do the measurements and send those via email to the barrel spinner. years ago it was a little more difficult but with the ease of communication send the specs and your done.
you are slightly limited by action size (not like my AXMC) but its cheap and just as effective and accurate. if you want tool less/on site swap at the range get a barrel wrench or have the smith mill a few slots with indicator marks for a big adjustable. switching barrels is not re inventing the wheel, and its not going to cost you a $1000 (or more) new action.
that being said i love the innovation over the past few years, but sometimes the juice isnt worth the $$.

 

[Sheldon N]

How many of you are able to swap a standard shouldered torque-on barrel while leaving the action in the stock and the scope mounted?

 

[BurnOut]

How many of you are able to swap a standard shouldered torque-on barrel while leaving the action in the stock and the scope mounted?

I am interested in this as well, and plan to try it soon with a switchbarrel Tikka (using shouldered barrels) that I'm having built. Honestly, my primary concern is in getting the barrel clamped tight enough without damaging the Cerakote... thinking of trying to find a way to clamp on to what will be red Loc-Tite'd muzzle brakes.

 

[morganlamprecht]

my buddy has been running his TL3 that way the past couple months...he got flats machined into his barrels, he snugs them by hand then bumps them with a crescent wrench...has a 7saum and 243 that shoot great...he checked RTZ of both barrels on and off multiple times also and shift was less than 0.1 if any at all...was close enough it could have just been shooter induced

ive had a 6x45 build on a rem700 for a year or so now set up the same way...had my smith put flats on the barrel and i just snug it with a wrench...no issues with consistency or accuracy...i run this gun 100% with a can on the end, and its never came loose

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I still like the Savage barrel nut approach; and the Savage action, because of the replaceable bolt head. This provides greater chambering versatility.

The only mod I'd make would be to set the barrel nut up with a jam nut. That way, once the headspace is set, and the jam nut is tightened, the barrel has the equivalent of a shoulder. Headspace it once, then spin it on and off as required.

A set screw could achieve the same thing, but I'd take care to position it where it didn't bugger the barrel threads.

Done optimally, the barrel could be tightened and loosened using a strap wrench.

Greg

 

[morganlamprecht]

why does everyone want to call their system a "switch barrel"...

if you have to pull your action out of the chassis...
if you have to remove your scope...
if you have to have $100+ in specialty tools to take things apart...

its not a "switch barrel" anything...youre just changing the barrel...

i have about 7 (maybe 8 barrels??) for my AT...i can engage a target with 1 one barrel...then engage the target with another barrel, in a different caliber, less than 2 min later (probably closer to 1 min if i hauled ass) with 1 allen wrench

 

[BurnOut]

why does everyone want to call their system a "switch barrel"...

if you have to pull your action out of the chassis...
if you have to remove your scope...
if you have to have $100+ in specialty tools to take things apart...

its not a "switch barrel" anything...youre just changing the barrel...

I can see your point here, but at the same time, I would consider a single action that is used to host a variety of barrels* a "switchbarrel" setup.


*The caveat here, for me, is that the barrels are swapped back and forth by the end user, and doing so doesn't require any sort of skill set beyond basic mechanical ability; additionally, the argument (at least to me) is easier to make if the barrels in question are in different chamberings from one another, or are significantly different in configuration/usage.

 

[morganlamprecht]

I can see your point here, but at the same time, I would consider a single action that is used to host a variety of barrels* a "switchbarrel" setup.


*The caveat here, for me, is that the barrels are swapped back and forth by the end user, and doing so doesn't require any sort of skill set beyond basic mechanical ability; additionally, the argument (at least to me) is easier to make if the barrels in question are in different chamberings from one another, or are significantly different in configuration/usage.

then every action out there is a switch barrel setup...if you get multiple barrels spun for it

 

[BurnOut]

then every action out there is a switch barrel setup...if you get multiple barrels spun for it

Well, they certainly have the potential to be (IMO); but the question is, how many of them have multiple "in use" barrels that are removed and reinstalled by the end user prior to being shot out?

 

[Bradu]

why does everyone want to call their system a "switch barrel"...

if you have to pull your action out of the chassis...
if you have to remove your scope...
if you have to have $100+ in specialty tools to take things apart...

its not a "switch barrel" anything...youre just changing the barrel...

i have about 7 (maybe 8 barrels??) for my AT...i can engage a target with 1 one barrel...then engage the target with another barrel, in a different caliber, less than 2 min later (probably closer to 1 min if i hauled ass) with 1 allen wrench

I'm sure most of use could do it without pulling the scope or stock but taking four bolts loose isn't really all that difficult. I would rather take 5 minutes to pull the scope and stock off than worry about putting the scope in a bind and being able to hold the barrel up by the receiver. What would you prefer they be called when you have an action, stock and scope with multiple barrels that can be swapped out in 10 minutes? I personally don't care what anyone wants to call it, having one system with multiple calibers is very convenient and saves a lot of money.

 

[TheOE800]

IMO if you have to use a vise it's not a quick-change setup. When I think switch barrel, I think quick-change.

The machined flats/crescent wrench sounds like an interesting way to do it, but I'd never think I could get consistent torque.

 

[Bradu]

IMO if you have to use a vise it's not a quick-change setup. When I think switch barrel, I think quick-change.

The machined flats/crescent wrench sounds like an interesting way to do it, but I'd never think I could get consistent torque.

Realistically how many people change the barrel at the range and I'm not talking bench rest shooters. I know what caliber I plan to shoot for the day so there is no point in me changing out in the field. If I go to a range that I can shoot farther than normal then I will put in a bigger/better caliber, if it's the usual 600 yard then I will just leave the 223 or 308 barrel.

 

[Covertnoob5]

Realistically how many people change the barrel at the range and I'm not talking bench rest shooters. I know what caliber I plan to shoot for the day so there is no point in me changing out in the field. If I go to a range that I can shoot farther than normal then I will put in a bigger/better caliber, if it's the usual 600 yard then I will just leave the 223 or 308 barrel.

I constantly switch between my .308 and .223 barrels on my DTA at the range. Just depends on which I have more ammo for on that particular day. I don't reload so it varies a good bit. I also have a 6.5 barrel that I'll use once in a while as well.
Also, if I run out of ammo but want to keep shooting, it means I can just buy a box or 2 at the range in whatever the best quality is and just continue shooting that caliber.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kane0519]

I just spoke to NSS to see if they would be willing to sell Criterion pre-fits for a shouldered TL-3. He's checking with Criterion. Their RPR pre-fits are $400.

That to me would be ideal. Big Horn TL-3 with some pre-fit barrels (223 & 6.5cm). Set the headspace, use a barrel nut set, then lock-tited the nut to the barrel.

I really like the machined flats on your barrel for quick field changes.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

No, I think that Morgan is right on the money about how we define a switch barrel.

In my fading mind, there is only a simple distinction to what I (probably erroneously) call a switch barrel.

To me, it involves whether or not a gunsmith must machine a barrel in order to headspace it, or whether a user can achieve headspace without doing any machining. If they can, then I use the term 'switch barrel'.

My Savage custom (the original SH Ghost Dancer, born in 2001) has been switched between three different barrels to create maybe as many as a half dozen separate rifle configurations. It will be switched again soon, this time to host a factory Savage .308 barrel while its current L-W 28" .260 barrel is swapped over to a new Savage 11VT .308 donor rifle.

Greg