T3x CTR 6.5 CM - barrel gone, need help

[Jayjay1]

Hey folks,
burnt out my first barrel, it was the 24" version.
Now I need a new one and beg for your help, because I have no clue which way to go, but do have some determinations.

Caliber is set with the 6.5 Creedmoor, I do have everything for this caliber and do love it.
Because of price and availability (here in Germany) it should be a Lothar Walther - barrel, everything else (import) would double the price over here.
The length of 24" seems to be a pretty good "in-between" of enough length for speed and manageability.
Heat problems were my biggest restrictions with the original Tikka barrel, after roundabout 4 shots fired (slowly) I got mirage and cooling time was a pita.
So I´d like to have a bit more beef to it, but don´t want to go with a bb.

Here comes my problem.
Lothar Walther has approx. about 100 barrel profiles and I have (except of the thickness) absolutely no clue which of them I should choose.
So,
6.5 CM
24" (26" would be standard at LW?)
twist 1:8"
beefier than the original
should be able to lasersplit hairs (just kidding)

What I need to know:
barrel contour
chamber normal or minimal


I hope you can help me out

 

[wooferocau]

If i can ask...how many did you get out of the original barrel?

 

[Jayjay1]

Actually, I have no clue.

I don´t count rounds at all, I load them and shoot them, repeat ...

My guess would be somewhat between 3 and 5k?

 

[Chris1972]

I would shoot for something around 19mm at the muzzle. This is a fair compromise.

It looks like they sell straight blanks as well. If you have a good smith you can design the barrel profile that you want and have it cut to your specs instead of an off the shelf profile.

 

[LuvDog]

What stock or chassis?

 

[Rob01]

First 26-28" is a good length to get good velocity out of the Creedmoor so I would go with the 26" seeing as they have that available.

Contour comes down to how heavy you want it. That's something we can't tell you but if you want it heavy something around .9" and up at the muzzle will be that. They have a few on their site from what I saw. #2400, 2500, or 3250. I would go with the #2500 myself if wanting heavier.

Chamber would come down to bullet used and magazine length. The standard .199 freebore works well over all. Not sure what they call minimal is for freebore though. You might want to check.

 

[Jayjay1]

A friend just called me and told me, that there are Shilen-barrels available which a gunsmith imports.

So that is another option.

I´m totally open between LW or Shilen.


The measurements are in mm.

 

[Jayjay1]

I would shoot for something around 19mm at the muzzle. This is a fair compromise.

It looks like they sell straight blanks as well. ..

Well, my original has 19mm at the muzzle, so I guess I should go beefier, though it has a "bottle" profile and isn´t straight.

 

[Jayjay1]

What stock or chassis?

KRG Bravo, the poor man´s TRG.

 

[Rob01]

A friend just called me and told me, that there are Shilen-barrels available which a gunsmith imports.

So that is another option.

I´m totally open between LW or Shilen.


The measurements are in mm.


View attachment 8154718

Either will work. I would go heavy varmint.

 

[Jayjay1]

First 26-28" is a good length to get good velocity out of the Creedmoor so I would go with the 26" seeing as they have that available.

Contour comes down to how heavy you want it. That's something we can't tell you but if you want it heavy something around .9" and up at the muzzle will be that. They have a few on their site from what I saw. #2400, 2500, or 3250. I would go with the #2500 myself if wanting heavier.

Chamber would come down to bullet used and magazine length. The standard .199 freebore works well over all. Not sure what they call minimal is for freebore though. You might want to check.

Ok, 26", but I don´t want to go longer than that.

Well, I might have to carry it around a bit at matches.

As long as I don´t have to shoot it off-hand, this would have been a pita even with the thinner 24".

All profiles you´ve mentioned are "straight", so do I understand this as a preference above the bottle-contour types?
I think I got the idea behind it.
#3190 is straight and beefier than the original with 19mm at the muzzle.

I have no clue what the difference between the standard and the minimal chambers is, would have guessed minimal stands for minimal tolerances like exactly SAAMI (or CIP).

What about the balance?
I´m using a normal muzzle brake, nothing big or heavy, have a Steiner M7Xi 4-28x56 on it, an Atlas Bipod at the front, everything in a KRG Bravo.

 

[Chris1972]

Well, my original has 19mm at the muzzle, so I guess I should go beefier, though it has a "bottle" profile and isn´t straight.

I just realized that your original was a CTR. Even though you said it I assumed it was T3 Lite because I can’t imagine a CTR only being good for 4 rounds. I apologize for my lack of reading comprehension.

Bigger barrel, shorter stick, same weight, less velocity, more accuracy, longer heat resistance.


How much velocity do you need? You’re talking 24” and some are trying to convince you to go longer. The real question is how much do you need?

A 21” that’s .900” at the muzzle (23mm) will be similar in weight but easier to handle and sustain longer strings of fire. It will also easily get you past 1000 meters/yards.

 

[Rob01]

Ok, 26", but I don´t want to go longer than that.

Well, I might have to carry it around a bit at matches.

As long as I don´t have to shoot it off-hand, this would have been a pita even with the thinner 24".

All profiles you´ve mentioned are "straight", so do I understand this as a preference above the bottle-contour types?
I think I got the idea behind it.
#3190 is straight and beefier than the original with 19mm at the muzzle.

I have no clue what the difference between the standard and the minimal chambers is, would have guessed minimal stands for minimal tolerances like exactly SAAMI (or CIP).

What about the balance?
I´m using a normal muzzle brake, nothing big or heavy, have a Steiner M7Xi 4-28x56 on it, an Atlas Bipod at the front, everything in a KRG Bravo.

What type of matches is the first question as you need the right tool for the job.

Straight taper or "bottle" style as you call it makes no difference. Just comes down to weight and outside diameter. Either will work fine. You said you wanted heavier than factory, which are usually the Rem Varmint contour and about 21mm at muzzle, and sounds like you had a thinner factory barrel at 19mm. If you don't want to go heavier like the ones I mentioned then you can go with something lighter.

You need to figure out the chamber and how much freebore is there in the minimal. If you can't find out then just go SAAMI and not the minimal. What bullet you plan to use?

Balance is important and with a KRG Bravo, which is lighter in the rear end, it won't have to be super heavy to balance out. I'd go light or heavy varmint depending on how much weight you want. The 7LV or HV or similar in the Lothar Walther.

On length, you get free velocity with the longer barrel. I have run 28" barrels with brakes on them in matches for years with my Creedmoor. The round was developed around a 28" barrel so it's not a bad length but if you want to go 26" that will work fine also. I wouldn't go shorter personally especially for a match rifle. Also you can always cut back if it's too long. You can not add length if you get a short barrel and find it lacking.

 

[4O6shootist]

Closest standard contour to a ctr is light palma, Tikka used a 1.13" od shoulder with a 1" major tenon OD. Smith could easily turn the tenon from 1.25 to 1.13 prior to cutting threads. I have a few Tikkas that are using barrels with 1.2" shanks and it's a non issue, just cosmetic.

 

[Jayjay1]

I agree with the barrel length.
The 6.5 Creedmoor needs a longer barrel to activate her full potential.
There are calibers which manage shorter barrels more easily, like the good old trusted .308, but that´s not what the 6.5 CM was built for I think.
I prefer heavier bullets with higher BCs, in my Tikka the SMK 142 was the most accurate bullet with a high BC.
So the 26" barrel might make the most sense, but I will have to think about that.
PRS is pretty much the use I´m thinking about, even if I do not compete, but that´s what I actually want from this rifle.

Thanks so far guys, everyone of you, for your thoughts and effort to help me out.
I understand your arguments and think I´m on track now.

Cheers from Germany!

 

[Rob01]

Get a 26" barrel with the 8 twist and SAAMI chamber with that bullet or the 140 or heavier. The 142 SMK jumps fine. If you want the weight then get one of the ones I mentioned. Don't get stuck in analysis paralysis as it's not a tough choice as you know what you want.

 

[4O6shootist]

A thing to remember, Tikka 65cm chambers have quite a bit more freebore VS the saami spec. I've measured 4 different tikkas to be near 240-250k freebore. Works very well with heavy eldm bullets at 2.93 coal. If you're a hand loader, definitely check lands prior to using custom ammo from your old barrel. Tikka barrels have always been slow to average in the hand full I've owned or dealt with reloading for friends. A high quality custom barrel at 20-22" will match or exceed the velocity from a factory 24" using the same components and powder charge. The tikka barrels always shoot very well though. It's a great rifle for the price. These are just my experiences with tikkas, which has been several.

 

[Redmist]

I’ve built a heap of rifles based on Tikka T3 action

The medium Palma profile works very well in terms of weight, stiffness and ability to not move when heated with repeat fire

The profile can be custom ordered at source to have the 1.150” shank that is required for the T3 (or get your rifle smith to turn it down )

Either way, Lothar Walther would be a good choice if you are based in Germany or contact Phoenix Barrels in the UK who will probably export to Germany if you wanted a cut rifled barrel - I use both for my work, no performance difference bettween the two