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Advanced Marksmanship Tactical Barrel Length
- Thread starter EMJ
- Start date
Wtf is tactical shooting
Cool, now that that’s out of the way, as to length, it depends on why you need to go shorter, ie if portability is going to be an issue. Other than that, from 18 to 24, you’ll be fine muzzle velocity-wise to 600y. Personally, I would vote not doing anything to it as of now, unless like I said earlier, if there is reason to go shorter.
Actually I would like to know does the accuracy work when you have .308 168 MK BTHP in a 18” barrel 1:12 twist... 18” is light to carry and shooting standing...
Hi,
Are you really asking of "how does the accuracy work" but you are shooting LEO Tactical Shooting Challenges??
Are you doing these shooting challenges as a LEO (As in "tactical" shooting is your real job in which you might need to use this shorter barreled rifle) or as a Civilian?
Sincerely,
Theis
Are you really asking of "how does the accuracy work" but you are shooting LEO Tactical Shooting Challenges??
Are you doing these shooting challenges as a LEO (As in "tactical" shooting is your real job in which you might need to use this shorter barreled rifle) or as a Civilian?
Sincerely,
Theis
A shorter barrel is not a determining factor affecting accuracy, velocity will be affected. ish. 1:12 will stabilize what you’re feeding it. A short fat barrel will have less whip, but the gun will group what it will group with the ammo it will group with.
Cut 1/2” at a time until it shoots best with your chosen ammo. But done get greedy because it’s hard to put that last 1/2 back on?
And make sure your hacksaw blade is new and sharp. I had a buddy that used an older saw blade. It didn’t work out so well for the crown. ??
I never used a 18” barrel before and I think that someone here have used some similar set up...
about the accuracy, as I told, my twist is 1:12 and in a 18” length, the bullet will make 1,5 turn to stabilize... the shooting group would be the same? In 24” it turns 2 x inside the barrel and I have 1 moa accuracy! With 18” will be the same? This place s the point.
About the use... for LEO for sure!
Thank you!
Why not buy a barrel?
Sure would be a lot easier to start with something made to work as is.
Criterion Barrels - Criterion Barrels
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I can do, but my question will keep existing... the 18” will be accurate as 24”?Why not buy a barrel?
Sure would be a lot easier to start with something made to work as is.
Criterion Barrels - Criterion Barrels
I'll bite:
If you're sticking with 168 FGMM, etc., 1-12 at 18" should be about the same accuracy wise for you, but slower MV, assuming were talking measuring non-bench/prone static groups. For shooting moving comps, like you say, you'll probably notice no accuracy change, but find shorter handier.
Most short .308s are 1-10 or 1-11.25 twist, or even faster, gain, left, yadda yadda twists, and are happiest shooting heavier pills 175+, etc.
You sound like you want to do it, so why not just go 20" and shorter if you want? Your time and $, nothing else to lose.
The internets once claimed 21.75" was definitely the best, definitely, but YMMV WTFDIK etc.
Personally, I would just keep it 24" as-is, or send it to LRI for their full Rem700 makeover with a fast twist shorty, you won't be sorry.
If you're sticking with 168 FGMM, etc., 1-12 at 18" should be about the same accuracy wise for you, but slower MV, assuming were talking measuring non-bench/prone static groups. For shooting moving comps, like you say, you'll probably notice no accuracy change, but find shorter handier.
Most short .308s are 1-10 or 1-11.25 twist, or even faster, gain, left, yadda yadda twists, and are happiest shooting heavier pills 175+, etc.
You sound like you want to do it, so why not just go 20" and shorter if you want? Your time and $, nothing else to lose.
The internets once claimed 21.75" was definitely the best, definitely, but YMMV WTFDIK etc.
Personally, I would just keep it 24" as-is, or send it to LRI for their full Rem700 makeover with a fast twist shorty, you won't be sorry.
Rpm is only related to barrel length as far as speed is concerned. I a bullet is going 2700fps out of a 16 or 24” barrel with the same twist; it will have the same rpm. Rpm is what stabilizes bullets and as long as they are stable accuracy shouldn’t be affected. If you’re LEO and taking shots with a rifle, I would hope you know this stuff already. What is your AO so I can make sure to never be there ...?
I was always pretty sure that the higher the speed, the more twist you'll put on the bullet per second, millisecond, or whatever given time.
So in general, if you go to extremely short barrels, you might want to twist a bit more aggressive in your barrel. If you have an extremely long barrel, say 32 inches, you can get away with a slightly less aggressive twisted barrel.
Only reason to go with a faster twist in a shorter barrel is to make up for the lack of speed
This. Something is off about this OP.......
Ut oh...theis doing theis things now!
I shoot a 18.5" 308. Someone said a 18" 308 will point out any flaws in your fundamentals and that is a highly understated point. Assuming this isn't a 18+lb rifle at 18" its going to rock your shit if you aren't on your game. Id keep it longer or add weight.... you cannot have your cake and eat it too here.
I shoot a 18.5" 308. Someone said a 18" 308 will point out any flaws in your fundamentals and that is a highly understated point. Assuming this isn't a 18+lb rifle at 18" its going to rock your shit if you aren't on your game. Id keep it longer or add weight.... you cannot have your cake and eat it too here.
D
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Since no one has answered your question...
As long as you launch that bullet at least 2450fps from that 1/12 twist barrel, you will be stable with a SG factor of 1.66. ( 1.0 being unstable, according to Berger's stability calculator).
You will go sub-sonic at sea level at about 700 yards.
As long as you launch that bullet at least 2450fps from that 1/12 twist barrel, you will be stable with a SG factor of 1.66. ( 1.0 being unstable, according to Berger's stability calculator).
You will go sub-sonic at sea level at about 700 yards.
I know a few sheriff depts that use 168’s for duty. Obviously it’s not a great long range weight/length, but the furthest police sniper kill in america was like 100 and something yards or last I heard. I Hardly doubt the bad guy would notice the difference.
We have been using this round for quite a long time, we just recently decided to start talking about bonded rounds. SOs move slow for the most part, but the 168gr SMK is very reliable for LE snipers as you said. I've used it in my state's TPOA competition and it was dead on (out of an 18'' Rem700 and AIAT 20'') at 300ish and in.
Hi,
That is the understatement of the week on SH, lol..
I just spoke with my local SO Team last night and they are using a passed down M700 that is going on 14 years in service and they had never heard of the "Tactical" ammunition line from RUAG built pretty much specifically for glass penetration.
Sincerely,
Theis
Not just RUAG but Federal and Black Hills have had rounds for intermediate barriers for a long time. The latter much more common in North America but in this day and age I don't why teams are still deploying with bullets designed for shooting paper. We tested RUAG on our team including their Styx and Barrier rounds but of course money always comes into play and currently use Federal's Tactical Bonded Ammunition. We still use Federal GMM 168 gr for training etc but I can't remember when we deployed with BTHP rounds, if so it was long before my time. I haven't read the ASA's most recent Sniper Utilization Report but years ago it was mentioned how some teams where still using FGMM as a duty round and why it's not the right tool for the job. I am from Canada by the way.
My reservations on the 168 SMK is not about long range accuracy, rather lack of effective terminal ballistics compared to purpose built duty rounds. SMKs can over penetrate a lot through (Ruby Ridge was a perfect example of that). Over penetration is a bad thing for LE.
Well put. LEAs should always give careful consideration in the distinction between training ammo and duty ammo. I mean, we use ball point for handgun training and hollow-point for duty on handgun, there should be no sudden departure from this philosophy on precision rifle duty rounds.
if you plan to pay a smith atleast $150 to cut down a barrel you should just concider buying a remage style barrel at the length you want in 1/10 or 1/9 twist. at the end of the day you're going to be way happier with the performance and you will only be spending maybe 200 extra.
just my .02
18" 1:12 with 168gr SMK works great in a Scar-H, and is plenty accurate, but there is more to it than length.
(insert joke about trying to convince my wife).
actually, depending on barrel profile and other variables, your particular example might shoot "better" with some of it cut off to reduce oscillation.
www.thetruthaboutguns.com
rifleshooter.com
(insert joke about trying to convince my wife).
actually, depending on barrel profile and other variables, your particular example might shoot "better" with some of it cut off to reduce oscillation.
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I’ve had no problem popping steel at 600 with a 17”, and no problem killing deer at 400 with a 13” it groups well at 100 also. If you want small and light get a SCAR.
What the German really said was “Meine Frau sagt, neun Zentimeter sind perfekt”
What the lovely wife says is “Zum Glück kommt gelegentlich Steel Head herüber, um das Kätzchen zur Unterwerfung zu zwingen”
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