Tactical training and equipment

#53
jcmullis2 said:
I think we’re talking apples and oranges here. I’m looking for something like urban warfare stuff for LE and Military that’s open to military retirees or civilians.
I can’t believe I’m the only guy that would pay to kick doors in, blow doors off the hinges and assault buildings with flash bangs and moving from room to room clearing buildings of bad guys.
If you guys wouldn’t enjoy that sorta stuff y’all are messed up.
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Well, I don't know what your experience is, but the number of folks I trust to stack a door (or bodies) with is a vanishingly small number. If I've gotta go, it's not gonna be because some rando domed me in a shoot house.
 
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#54
THEIS said:
Hi,

I think you are missing the fact that all that kicking in doors, assaulting buildings and room clearing is absolutely something that cannot be taught in a 1 week, 2 week or 1 month training course.

It takes months and months of trust building on those mil/le teams you keep referring to as examples before they conduct live fire room clearing and assaulting and we are talking about guys that have passed multiple selections just to get to that point.

Last thing someone wants to do is got shot in the back while going through a doorway because the guy behind him has an entire 3 days of training in such a situation.

IF you find a facility that does what you are looking for can you please ask them to show you their insurance policy and update this thread with their coverage because I can guarantee to you most will not have one.

Sincerely,
Theis
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I realize there’s liability issues involved. Your absolutely right in what you said. I’ve been retired a long time about 20years. Anything I think I knew is antiquated at best. However they could make more money by requiring students take prerequisites. A potential gold mine if done properly.
The military guys nowadays must be a whole bunch better than the fellas I served with. For the most part, everything was a real shit show back in the day. 17-21 year olds are good at one thing and that’s screwing up. You wouldn’t believe the number of guys that get killed or disabled in military training. Most of them wouldn’t have been injured if they’d been the highly trained, well oiled machine you believe them to be. The special forces guys might be like that but I don’t know because I wasn’t SF. Most active duty guys aren’t SF and don’t have the training. They do regular jobs like civilians. I promise you the active duty status that I’ve seen required accomplishes nothing. The active duty supply guy is fine. How about the Active duty labor delivery nurse, she’s good too. Let’s not forget active duty clerk typists, yep they’re fine. Retired military personnel are not acceptable. Why? You suggest it’s because the retiree might shoot the active duty nurse, clerk, or supply sgt.
The sad thing is that people obviously think like that.
 
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#55
DJL2 said:
Well, I don't know what your experience is, but the number of folks I trust to stack a door (or bodies) with is a vanishingly small number. If I've gotta go, it's not gonna be because some rando domed me in a shoot house.
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None for the most part. I’ve only been in one shootout in a house and it was pretty stressful and time seemed to slow down but shit was really happening fast. I was very fortunate I didn’t get hurt worse or killed. I survived but it was close and could have just as easily went the other way. Training or divine intervention saved me. However training is the only thing out of the two I might can purchase. There’s bad guys out there and shits over long before help arrives.
 
#57
Instagram does tactical lessons now?!? Maybe I need to rethink some more social media so I can get edumicated on door kicken and room clearing. Maybe they will reach me how to make a flex linear so I can remove a door sans ghetto blaster.
 
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#59
Do those kits come in Mil or Moa?

For the love of all that is holy, please tell me they are available in 6.5 Creed..

(OP trolling aside--take a class with Frank, or one of those local to you..there is no "kit", just a man, his rifle, and the will to learn)
 
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#60
😂 Lmmfao You fellas busting my balls about the “kit”. Keep it coming, I deserve it because I shouldn’t screw with people. After my initial failed search for this training. I said to myself, if anyone has heard of such a training course they would be on the interweb. However what about the lunatic fringe, how to weed out those crazy mofo’s? I further surmised that being crazy mofos they probably had a “kit” of some sort.
The training is really what I wanted the kit was a way to identify and weed out the psychos that were sure to respond. I respect the opinions of most of fellas here on the hide and I can’t tell you guys how surprised I was that none of the crazies responded. If they did I missed it so please let me know so I can go back and read it again.
I don’t know if I’ll be able to find anything like I want because it is dangerous. However I believe everyone could benefit from training to fight in close quarters like their home or even their automobile. The police do what they can but they’re stretched real thin and can’t always get to you right away.
I appreciate you guys help with this and if you come across something like that please let me know.
 
#61
THEIS said:
Hi,

IF you have an Instagram account you can see exactly what happens when people attempt to do the "Tactical" shit they see on TV

Instagram

www.instagram.com www.instagram.com

Sincerely,
Theis
Click to expand...
I don’t have Instagram but I’ve seen enough gore and shit shows to last my lifetime. It’s not just civilians that get hurt attempting to do tactical shit seen on tv. The attrition rate on some of this shit in the military is over 50% from injury alone. When they screw up it doesn’t make it outside the chain of command so they’re not on Instagram.
You’re right though. It’s very dangerous even if it’s not live fire. I understand the value of running teams through training together but they aren’t requiring teams just the person be active duty. The places that accept any active duty military are asking for the same problems that happen accepting civilians. Just because they’re active duty doesn’t mean they have even ever touched a weapon. That’s the problem I have with that requirement but private business can deny service for any reason. I appreciate what you’re telling me I was just hoping that there was something out there that could help me sort out defending my home. Thanks again for your honesty I do appreciate it. You’re a Good guy for speaking an unwelcome truth.
 
#63
reubenski said:
What means.... "kicking doors"?

Oh, you mean the "Raid"? From Raid, Ambush, and Recon. The three missions of Small Unit Tactics. An Infrantry staple.

The derivatives of SUT are the universal lessons of:

Leadership: Selfless service. Supervision and spot checking. Providing clear guidance. Succinct and clear communication. Providing motivation, purpose, and direction to humans that are sucking in environments conditions.

Accountability: For your subordinates, physically. In the middle of the night. In the middle of an operation. In the middle of a TIC. For your actions. For your squad/ section/ platoon/ company in everything it does and fails to do.

Security: First thing you do. In every situation. Always. Universal and neverending. All the way from while your buddy sips off his canteen to "fill a hole to get to a hole".

Troop leading procedures. 8 of them. You do them after you receive a WARNO. Learn them and the concept has greater meaning in problem solving and planning.

Fire and Maneuver warfare: The basis of everything we( Military) does. From individuals within a buddy team to buddy teams within a fire team, to fire teams in a squad, to....the number 3 man covering the opposing threat to the number 1 man digging his corner.

Priorities of work. Employment of fires. Planning. Information dissemination. It goes on and on. It takes a career and you'll never master it. The best thing you can do is MASTER THE BASICS. Focus on principles and fundamentals because they are universal and hold greater meaning that extrapolates to more than just the Raid, Ambush, and Recon.

But I guess my question for all these civilian tactical trainings are, 1. What is it that you're raiding(aka an attack on a fixed/ stationary enemy position)? 2. With whom?

2. You're militia buddies? 1. The chinese or russians? Your neighbors? A government or municipal facility or activity?

No real good explanation for why a citizen needs to be good at the "collective tasks" of the "Raid". I'm sure it comes from a much more innocent place. The 14yr old deep inside that still wants to be "commando-like". Even though everyone had the chance to be a triple volunteer and ultimately chose not to be. Without really understanding the greater context and reasons for learning CQB and stalks, the inner child still wants to learn how to be the "cool guy". Buy the kit. Make the Instagram. Get the tattoos. Order the Molon Labe sticker for the Dodge Ram 2500. Build an AR15. Etc...

Oh, self-defense you say? So how does single-team, multi-room cqb, "kicking doors, explosive breaching, throwing bangs figure into self-defense? Exactly. Bullshit.

But if you really do desire to be a more capable and lethal human being. Just be good at "Man skills".

1. Keep yourself fit. Run a 7 to 8 min mile. Carry 40lbs for 10 miles on flat terrain in 2.5hrs. Maintain your durability by regular workouts. Resist the urge to take the cop out and say, "oh, I'm 49 or 56. Lived a hard life(as an ELM clerk). All broke up from a life of sacrifice". Cool, but you're dead weight.

2. Continue to train basic and combat marksmanship because it is a life-long pursuit. (Master the basics) IDPA, IPSC, and 3G do a decent job of providing practical exercises of multiple target indexing, speed mag changes, shooting while moving, etc. Really, action shooting sports in general.

3. Study and practice Ju-Jitsu. Don't be a bitch.

4. Maintain situational awareness. Continue to perform the mundane, redundant tasks of locking up at night, replacing the bulbs in the street light, switching up your routine. Etc. These basic and easily blown off minutae tasks.

5. Be prepared. Gas, medical kits, snow chains and cold weather clothing in the winter. The 10 essentials. Read the weather report. Don't be over-confident and under-prepared.


6. Fix your truck. Ski a black diamond. Kill and butcher deer. Trap an animal. Make a three day drive without getting pulled over, having an accident, running out of gas, getting onto a road rage incident. Bake bread. Know how to operate a CB radio. Rebuild a carberatur. Can venison. Make a fire in the rain. Build a forge. On and on.

Otherwise, I'd suggest simply focus on being a healthy human being, being a good husband and father, neighbor. Mow your grass. Pay your taxes. Contribute to your community. Don't watch the news. And enjoy what time you have left in this earth. 10 years goes by fast.
Click to expand...
1630493844659.gif

This threads over. Pack in it boys, time to go
 
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#64
jcmullis2 said:
I don’t have Instagram but I’ve seen enough gore and shit shows to last my lifetime. It’s not just civilians that get hurt attempting to do tactical shit seen on tv. The attrition rate on some of this shit in the military is over 50% from injury alone. When they screw up it doesn’t make it outside the chain of command so they’re not on Instagram.
You’re right though. It’s very dangerous even if it’s not live fire. I understand the value of running teams through training together but they aren’t requiring teams just the person be active duty. The places that accept any active duty military are asking for the same problems that happen accepting civilians. Just because they’re active duty doesn’t mean they have even ever touched a weapon. That’s the problem I have with that requirement but private business can deny service for any reason. I appreciate what you’re telling me I was just hoping that there was something out there that could help me sort out defending my home. Thanks again for your honesty I do appreciate it. You’re a Good guy for speaking an unwelcome truth.
Click to expand...
Are you sure? Because even @THEIS told you earlier in this thread that the guys doing the CQB, dynamic entry, whatever are actually cherry picked to be on those teams, and have months of training, together as a team, to build the trust you 110% need to build a stack to then push into a building…
 
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#65
TheBigCountry said:
TheBigCountry said:
Are you sure? Because even @THEIS told you earlier in this thread that the guys doing the CQB, dynamic entry, whatever are actually cherry picked to be on those teams, and have months of training, together as a team, to build the trust you 110% need to build a stack to then push into a building…
Click to expand...
Selecting qualified members and training as a Teams is the way it should be and all of that makes damn good sense to me. However the only requirement I seen was active duty military and that’s nothing but some bs.
Click to expand...
 
#66
I'm not sure where I fit into with this entire discussion....

As an only child I did run around in the woods throwing sticks pretending they were dynamite.
This very day I'm back shooting and making videos right next to that same woods.
For me playing tactical sits somewhere in between the past and self betterment as I move forward in life.
Self challenge might be a better description...
Made this video the other day. (Cause I have fun doing it)
Does this quantify me as a tactical bitch or a dude in trunks having a good time?

(Definitely not raiding shit with red trunks running cross a green field of beans)

Vic
 
#68
The talking in circles gets quite old. @reubenski laid it all out for ya bud. Bitching and moaning on the internet really gets you nowhere. You’ve been given quite the nice treatment and honest answers but you keep digging the hole deeper.
 
#69
TheBigCountry said:
The talking in circles gets quite old. @reubenski laid it all out for ya bud. Bitching and moaning on the internet really gets you nowhere. You’ve been given quite the nice treatment and honest answers but you keep digging the hole deeper.
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Who’s talking in circles? Let me guess, I’ve “been given quite the nice treatment” and you feel a different type of treatment is in order. I was wondering why some of the guys were talking shit about you in the earlier replies. You do realize that nobody likes an asshole, don’t you? Maybe instead of playing the role of the asshole when you don’t like something, you can move on to something you do like.
 
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#70
Since no one asked yet, you said you're retired military, what did you do, for how long, what branch? If your gonna ask for help, we need to know what we're working with and that can give us an idea on where to send you for help.
 
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#73
jcmullis2 said:
Who’s talking in circles? Let me guess, I’ve “been given quite the nice treatment” and you feel a different type of treatment is in order. I was wondering why some of the guys were talking shit about you in the earlier replies. You do realize that nobody likes an asshole, don’t you? Maybe instead of playing the role of the asshole when you don’t like something, you can move on to something you do like.
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LMAO..you really think they were talking about me? You need to re-read the thread as everyone was mocking YOU. Bless your heart. You’ll make it far here.

By the way, do you work concrete? How many bow kills do you have?
 
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#80
Door kickers? Depends on branch:

The AIR FORCE would take out a three-year lease with an option to buy the building.
The Coast Guard would turn out the lights
The NAVY would turn out the lights and lock the doors.
The ARMY would turn out the lights and lock the doors and post a guard
The MARINE CORPS would call in an airstrike.
 
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#82
THEIS said:
Hi,

I think you are missing the fact that all that kicking in doors, assaulting buildings and room clearing is absolutely something that cannot be taught in a 1 week, 2 week or 1 month training course.

It takes months and months of trust building on those mil/le teams you keep referring to as examples before they conduct live fire room clearing and assaulting and we are talking about guys that have passed multiple selections just to get to that point.

Last thing someone wants to do is got shot in the back while going through a doorway because the guy behind him has an entire 3 days of training in such a situation.

IF you find a facility that does what you are looking for can you please ask them to show you their insurance policy and update this thread with their coverage because I can guarantee to you most will not have one.

Sincerely,
Theis
Click to expand...
I took a new team (MiTT) of various MOS's for my second tour to Iraq. I was the only combat arms guy (Infantry) that had prior deployment experience (two of us were Infantry on the team other guy had no deployment experience). We had a 90 day pre-deployment training timeline. Getting some of my guys to understand Enter, Clear a Room execution and the flexibility it requires was painful to say the least. It required me putting my hands on one of my guys to assist him in pulling his head out of his 4th point of contact.

In 05 a kid was killed in a training incident at Campbell doing tactical training. This stuff is no joke.

Very Respectfully,
Stefan
 
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#83
jcmullis2 said:
I’ve noticed that more civilians are getting into tactical training. All sorts of nice bdu’s and gear out wazoo. Run and gun drills where everything is designed to challenge the shooter. Are those types of courses and training expensive and how did y’all go about getting into this?
Click to expand...
Buy a good reliable AR (not a $600 Funstore special) think BCM, FN etc. Buy several cases of the same ammo and go take a basic class from a reputable training group Pat McNamara, John McPhee, Robert Keller, Fieldcraft Survival, Ronin Tactics etc. Don’t get caught up in the gear until you take a basic AND a more advanced class and have a better idea of what does and does not work for you. Don’t ever substitute gear for proper training and repeating the drills that you learned at class.

eta: A quality basic class should be your first step even before random range time, repetitions are repetitions and you want to be repeating good habits and not reinforcing bad habits.
 
#84
jcmullis2 said:
They seem to be geared more for teaching basic firearms safety. There’s tons of BS places hustling education but I figured someone here would have had some first hand knowledge of the good ones. I’m talking about cqb and urban combat sorta training but thanks for trying to help.
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Most training schools are going to assume you don't know anything until you prove you do. I would be very leary of any school that would put you in a 360 shoot house kicking doors & clearing rooms without properly vetting you first.
 
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#86
I have things you people wouldn't believe.

Entire hillsides on fire from tracer machine gun fire off the shoulder of southern Utah.

I watched full power IR lasers glitter in the dark near your mom's house.

All those moments will be lost in time, like Bender's virginity.

Time to find more rare custom Crye combat pants.
 
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#87
EddieNFL said:
My "kit" is still Alice. I would never be allowed to attend one of these classes.

View attachment 7699247
Click to expand...
I wish I still had mine. I had an old H harness my buddies Dad gave me and a his butt pack from Viet Nam. I had purchase all of my own shit so I could modify it with 550 cord and get rid of the metal clips that always seemed to catch me in the right place when carrying a ruck. I lost it during a move to CA and all of my other stuff, like BDUs, boots and dress greens.
 
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#90
I'd take the LCE or the Brit's belt kit over anything I've used or seen since for no-BS, live in the field, ruck everywhere use. My interest in chest and ab mounted kit these days stems more from the necessity of its use, than its merit. The fact that the trend over the last few years has been towards minimalist versus "I need 12 mags, 4 frags, 2 chemlights in each color, 1x flaming rock, 1x fire fly, 1x notebook, 2x smokes, etc., etc." is indicative that most folks now appreciate that stacking 20 lbs of gear a foot deep on your chest is not ideal most of the time.
 
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#93
BullGear said:
Lee jeans and a tank top from Kmart bought in 1986. It's not what you have but what you can do with it.....
Click to expand...
I got my lunch absolutely handed to me in a Mountain Bike race by a guy with dreads wearing stone washed cut off Jordash Jeans one time.
Is it possible you two are related?

I'm still scared from that day.
Run what ya brung.....
 
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#94
Op, here you go. Buck knows what he is doing. Your next best bet is running around the desert in AZ with @TheGerman. He started a good thread for running drills, start there and see how you do.

Follow Through Consulting

Firearms instruction & training (pistol, carbine, scoped carbine ) in Utah and nation-wide.
www.followthroughconsulting.com www.followthroughconsulting.com

www.snipershide.com

I think I'm going to start a 'weekly carbine drill' thread or something

Because you guys here all shoot, right? (lolHorta) This week is simple but is probably the most used shot in regards to carbines and combat shooting that there is. It's also overlooked with the carbine just like with the pistol, as it seems 99% of peoples' shooting "begins" once the weapon is...
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com
 
#96
#100
stefan73 said:
View attachment 7699851
Click to expand...

I'm kind of considering some sort of week long course in southern Utah, during the summer, where you arrive to our facility and end up living in a MGPTS tent, that has an ECU, which I never turn on for you.

The required equipment for the course, is for you to bring a shovel, whatever clothing you want to bring and thats about it. Everything you bring has to be able to be carried on you at all times.

Then, through evolutions of digging trenches, filling hesco barriers, flattened hard pack desert with your hands, I will allow you to earn equipment, weapons, ammunition and maybe a little bit of actual instruction when I feel like it. Those who succeed, get to actually learn shit. Those who don't, will continue being made fun of by me in my umbrella covered lounge chair, conveniently located in a spot far enough to where your digging and dying of dehydration won't bother me, but also close enough so I don't have to actually yell when I'm going over the list of absolutely horrible life decisions that have gotten you to this very point.


7 day class
Bring your own shovel
Estimated Round Count: 4

$2100/per person
 
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