Suppressors Talk me out of a K can

[rlsmith1]

So I've got a Sandman S already and when I put it on my 12.5, it starts feeling more and more like my 14.5.

My thought is to either buy a 556 specific can (Dead Air is supposed to have one at some point) or get a K can.

Has anyone done a direct thread K can on an 11.5 or 12.5 and regretted it? I shoot with earpro 99% of the time but I don't like a fireball at night. Thoughts?

 

[alamo5000]

It's just my opinion but you would be substantially better off getting something like a tubeless can. The Griffin Explorr is one example of what I am thinking about.

The new ones are insanely light and also offer great suppression.

 

[Maurygold]

It's just my opinion but you would be substantially better off getting something like a tubeless can. The Griffin Explorr is one example of what I am thinking about.

The new ones are insanely light and also offer great suppression.

yikes. friends don't recommend griffin to friends.

I've been big fan of CGS group. I went with heir full size instead of the K since I don't want to have to wear HPD when shooting but their k can seems to be well perceived. Checkout pewscince for suppressor date if interested

 

[rlsmith1]

Yeah weight is important but length is too for me. I'm wondering if something like the Turbo K in direct thread would be terrible or not. CGS is expensive but very light. The Energetic ARX is about as long as I'd like to go on this one.

If anyone has firsthand experience with 11.5 or 12.5's with K cans I'd love to hear it. I just don't want to be shooting fireballs at night if I can help it (ammo is probably just as important with shorter barrels)

 

[Maurygold]

Yeah weight is important but length is too for me. I'm wondering if something like the Turbo K in direct thread would be terrible or not. CGS is expensive but very light. The Energetic ARX is about as long as I'd like to go on this one.

If anyone has firsthand experience with 11.5 or 12.5's with K cans I'd love to hear it. I just don't want to be shooting fireballs at night if I can help it (ammo is probably just as important with shorter barrels)

The surefire has been touted as one of the best to eliminate said "fireballs" its longer but maybe worth the little bit of extra length and has a badass host system

 

[rlsmith1]

But I've already got the Sandman S and with the 556 flash hider end cap, it all but eliminates that signature. It's just longer and heavier than I'd like on this gun. It's perfect for my linger pinned guns that wear an LPVO and are naturally heavier

 

[alamo5000]

yikes. friends don't recommend griffin to friends.

WTF is wrong with you? Griffin makes some of the best suppressors on the market.

Griffin makes absolutely amazing suppressors.

Not saying there are not others making great stuff, but when it comes to suppressors Griffin is easily in the top ten percent of all suppressor manufacturers.

 

[alamo5000]

Yeah weight is important but length is too for me.

This is going to make the decision for you pretty much. If the absolute length is a must have it will cut out a lot of options.

If it's primarily weight then there is a lot more options.

I don't know how much emphasis you put on the criteria you are after. Is it 90% weight and 10% length or more like a 50-50 split?

 

[rlsmith1]

Probably 70/30 with emphasis on length. I wouldn't mind a larger diameter and I don't know why so many companies are stuck on 1.5" tubes especially for shorter cans. I really don't want to be much over 5.5" if I can help it

 

[alamo5000]

Probably 70/30 with emphasis on length. I wouldn't mind a larger diameter and I don't know why so many companies are stuck on 1.5" tubes especially for shorter cans. I really don't want to be much over 5.5" if I can help it

The one I mentioned above is 6" long total. Don't know if half an inch matters.

Keep in mind that part of that length fits over the muzzle device so the true added length will be right around 4 ish inches I think.

The specs also say total weight is 9oz.

They have new baffles as well that drastically reduce back pressure as well.

Honestly I think it would be an excellent choice and you don't have to sacrifice full size can performance.

 

[Riverlife87]

Not a big fan on my sandman K. Major flash

 

[alamo5000]

Keep in mind that part of that length fits over the muzzle device so the true added length will be right around 4 ish inches I think.

The specs also say total weight is 9oz.

The griffin taper mount system will basically mean that to get a true overall length of the rifle with the can installed, you can subtract the total length of your threads from the 6" OAL of the can.

 

[Huskydriver]

K cans are silly imo unless you kick doors for a living

 

[rlsmith1]

@alamo5000 I hadn't seen the 556 version and it looks pretty interesting. I was leaning more towards a semi permanently attached direct thread but I may reevaluate.

@Riverlife87 I've heard that quite a bit but the flash hider end cap on my S has helped with that. Are you using a FH endcap? What barrel lengths are you using it on?

 

[TxWelder35]

K cans are silly imo unless you kick doors for a living

You know, I thought the same, then I was dragging my 16” with a turbo on it around in the woods the other day and that’s a long mf. I have a direct thread sico saker 556k showing up soon I got a hella deal on. Bet that on a 12” gun would be tits.

 

[Riverlife87]

@alamo5000 I hadn't seen the 556 version and it looks pretty interesting. I was leaning more towards a semi permanently attached direct thread but I may reevaluate.

@Riverlife87 I've heard that quite a bit but the flash hider end cap on my S has helped with that. Are you using a FH endcap? What barrel lengths are you using it on?

My original intent was to use the K on a scar 17 with the normal end cap. Resulted in comical amounts of flash. Added the FH end cap still has a ton. Switched to a sand man S with the fh end cap and has pretty much been my go to. Using the k on a scar 16 currently. I will say on certain days the tone of the k is pretty good.

 

[alamo5000]

@alamo5000 I hadn't seen the 556 version and it looks pretty interesting. I was leaning more towards a semi permanently attached direct thread but I may reevaluate.

You can get a can that you pin and weld but if your lower is already an SBR I would not do it that way.

There are a few companies that use a taper mount system. Personally I like taper mounts a lot more. Super solid and extremely good repeatability.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I have a R6 and a Nomad Ti coming at some point, that's how I decided to add to my can collection. The R6 is dedicated for 223, not sure how happy I will be with it, but length wasn't the top priority for me.

 

[Huskydriver]

You know, I thought the same, then I was dragging my 16” with a turbo on it around in the woods the other day and that’s a long mf. I have a direct thread sico saker 556k showing up soon I got a hella deal on. Bet that on a 12” gun would be tits.

So your saker k is like 1" shorter...
I mean it's everyone's decision but for a stamp and wait na I'm good k cans are so freaking loud...



Hell I run a L stellite can on my 10.5" sbr

 

[HenryTheAce]

I’m with @Huskydriver not a fan of K cans.. they’re loud, suck at night, and I’d rather hang an inch or two extra off my barrel with a little more weight for the benefits. K cans leave a lot to be desired.

 

[TxWelder35]

So your saker k is like 1" shorter...
I mean it's everyone's decision but for a stamp and wait na I'm good k cans are so freaking loud...



Hell I run a L stellite can on my 10.5" sbr

Guess we will find out, I’ll run it side by side with my full size turbo, It’s quite a bit narrower also iirc. I haven’t seen it in a while, def an impulse buy. But at $500 OTD with a tax stamp

 

[Huskydriver]

Guess we will find out, I’ll run it side by side with my full size turbo, It’s quite a bit narrower also iirc. I haven’t seen it in a while, def an impulse buy. But at $500 OTD with a tax stamp

Double up your ear pro... Def not a bad deal tho

 

[IOWASHOOTER]

An opposing opinion, I love my K cans. I run a turbo K on a 11.5" gun. It absolutely takes a lot of the edge off, especially if you're shooting with ear pro most of the time anyway. It's short, light, and works exactly as I want it to. Highly recommend the setup!

 

[TxWelder35]

Double up your ear pro... Def not a bad deal tho

Double up? It’s a suppressor, I was hoping for zero ear pro at least for a couple shots.

 

[cast1]

So I've got a Sandman S already and when I put it on my 12.5, it starts feeling more and more like my 14.5.

My thought is to either buy a 556 specific can (Dead Air is supposed to have one at some point) or get a K can.

Has anyone done a direct thread K can on an 11.5 or 12.5 and regretted it? I shoot with earpro 99% of the time but I don't like a fireball at night. Thoughts?

Don’t do it. Happy?

 

[rlsmith1]

@cast1 happy, thank you!

 

[rlsmith1]

My original intent was to use the K on a scar 17 with the normal end cap. Resulted in comical amounts of flash. Added the FH end cap still has a ton. Switched to a sand man S with the fh end cap and has pretty much been my go to. Using the k on a scar 16 currently. I will say on certain days the tone of the k is pretty good.

Yeah I don't think I would ever put the Sandman K on a 308 but the 556 burns about half the powder so I'd expect it to do much better on the Scar 16

@IOWASHOOTER how does the Turbo K do at night? I'm less concerned about noise since I run earpro most of the time and this isn't intended to be a silent gun. But I also don't want to sling fireballs at night. At that point I might as well save the weight and run a good flash hider and apologize to my buddies for the concussion haha

 

[IOWASHOOTER]

Yeah I don't think I would ever put the Sandman K on a 308 but the 556 burns about half the powder so I'd expect it to do much better on the Scar 16

@IOWASHOOTER how does the Turbo K do at night? I'm less concerned about noise since I run earpro most of the time and this isn't intended to be a silent gun. But I also don't want to sling fireballs at night. At that point I might as well save the weight and run a good flash hider and apologize to my buddies for the concussion haha

Mine is very ammo dependent. Plinker 55gr stuff has some but mine doesn't have the FH endcap. With my duty load there isn't any noticable flash.

 

[NHR]

I use a Turbo K on a 12.5. zero regrets.

All cans are loud on 5.56. I've been able to do a side by side comparison with the Turbo K and DA nomad on a 10.5 and 12.5 AR. The Turbo is marginally louder, but it's down range noise. If you're near a structure you'll hear the noise bounce back, otherwise it's not that different.

The Turbo K on a 12.5 is the same length as my 16" rifle + brake. Short and light enough to use for gun games, and way quieter so I don't need to double up on earpro if shooting under a roof or in a structure.

 

[rlsmith1]

@NHR thanks a lot for the info, are you direct thread or WD? That’s great info.

Have you run it at night much? I’m sure at that barrel length powder makes almost as much difference as the can does

 

[FuhQ]

On Sunday there was 2 guys shooting a YHM Resonator K on a .30-06... It was still loud as hell, and required PPE. When I first walked into the shooting house, I thought they were shooting unsuppressed, it was so loud. There is no point in owning a suppressor, and paying $200 per stamp, and waiting for it, to still blow your ears out. If you're going to own a suppressor, might as well own one that actually does what it's supposed to do...Suppress.

Just my opinion on K cans...

 

[NHR]

@NHR thanks a lot for the info, are you direct thread or WD? That’s great info.

Have you run it at night much? I’m sure at that barrel length powder makes almost as much difference as the can does

I just switched to the Kurz QD mount but haven't tested outdoors yet. I have used the DT on a 16" barrel. There wasnt a noticeable difference on the 16" between DT and QD. The DT mount is a lot lighter than QD and completely changes the handling. Makes me tempted to use A419 mounts.

I have the first gen TK. There is some muzzle flash at night with M193 in the 12.5. Best analogy is like 9mm from a Glock 19(not using flashy ammo). The TK2 has a new end app that's supposed to kill flash.

On Sunday there was 2 guys shooting a YHM Resonator K on a .30-06... It was still loud as hell, and required PPE. When I first walked into the shooting house, I thought they were shooting unsuppressed, it was so loud. There is no point in owning a suppressor, and paying $200 per stamp, and waiting for it, to still blow your ears out. If you're going to own a suppressor, might as well own one that actually does what it's supposed to do...Suppress.

Just my opinion on K cans...

So... Do you think it would have been louder without the can? And we're talking about ARs, not bolt guns.

The whole point of a K can on an AR is to keep the whole thing light and short so it still handles like an AR. Port pop on ARs is loud for ALL cans and will require ear pro. Shooting a 10.5-12.5 indoors or under a roof requires doubling up if you don't use a can, and even then it's still loud AF. K cans knock it down enough to use muffs or loose plugs.

 

[FuhQ]

So... Do you think it would have been louder without the can? And we're talking about ARs, not bolt guns.

The whole point of a K can on an AR is to keep the whole thing light and short so it still handles like an AR. Port pop on ARs is loud for ALL cans and will require ear pro. Shooting a 10.5-12.5 indoors or under a roof requires doubling up if you don't use a can, and even then it's still loud AF. K cans knock it down enough to use muffs or loose plugs.

I love how people go into huge pointless drivel to justify something that is obviously not worth the money, time, or effort, unless you’re kicking-in doors for a living... And if you’re doing that, then you’re LE, military, or agency, and they buy your equipment.

And yeah, I own several different length and model suppressors and lots of AR’s in different barrel lengths and cartridges…I know how that game works. You’re still never going to convince me that a k-can will be worth it, over my Sandman-S cans. That tiny amount of length and weight savings are not worth the 10-15 DB increase in volume to me.

But to each, his own.

 

[E. Bryant]

LOL, yes, a shorty on a rifle approaching magnum powder volumes in near proximity to reflective surfaces is going to be loud - especially over a long string of shots. I would agree this is not the right tool for the job of lengthy range sessions. But for hunting, I'd much rather listen to 1-2 shots through a shorty than an un-muffled rifle, and I don't particularly relish the thought of hauling an extra few inches of can through the woods, and so the idea of a K can on a rifle with a slightly shorter-than-normal barrel is quite appealing.

For SBR use, it's somewhat more complicated. First, a slightly shorter can + slightly longer barrel will be ballistically superior to a longer can on a shorter barrel with the same overall system length. It's also possible that the acoustic signature will be better for the shooter, as any additional burn time for the powder charge will make life easier for the silencer, and it's also possible that port noise will be lower with this combination. (Note that port noise is a major contributor to the "shooter's ear" performance on semi-autos). It's also fair to question whether a "normal" can on a SBR is truly ear-safe (140 deeeebeee!), and so if earpro is required anyways, why not enjoy a shorter silencer? (Also note that this argument applies to situations that involves stuff like transition from carbine to pistol, or simply involve the presence of other unsuppressed shooters).

In short (no pun intended), they have their place. That place is probably not shooting from a bench at the local range, but there are plenty of other uses for suppressors.

 

[hlee]

What's wrong with MauryGold? He's still sandy that his FIRST suppressor form 4 is stuck in Silencer Shop e-form purgatory. I'm no expert on the subject, but I'd take his opinion with a grain of salt. Anyway, K cans are loud, and get louder when you put them on short rifles. They are a bit better on long barreled guns, but still not hearing safe. If I'm going to have to wear hearing protection, I'll just go with a FH or a brake.

 

[rlsmith1]

@E. Bryant the question is where is the happy medium balance? Based on current military procurement, they think it is a 14.5" with a K can. How short is too short? Sounds like it's shooter dependent and unless I'm on Uncle Sam's dime, I shouldn't ever even think about anything other than a standard length (of which I have 2 already and one on the way)

What's wrong with MauryGold? He's still sandy that his FIRST suppressor form 4 is stuck in Silencer Shop e-form purgatory. I'm no expert on the subject, but I'd take his opinion with a grain of salt. Anyway, K cans are loud, and get louder when you put them on short rifles. They are a bit better on long barreled guns, but still not hearing safe. If I'm going to have to wear hearing protection, I'll just go with a FH or a brake.

I agree except I don't think I'd do a brake on much less than a 14.5". Just yesterday I shot my 12.5" with a single port DA brake, Sandman S and A1 birdcage. The single port brake was useless; no noticeable reduction in recoil but that single chamber redirected enough concussion I could feel it for sure (I know, cry me a river). The A1 was loud but not concussive at all. This leads me to believe a K can may be just what I'm after

 

[Gustav7]

So I've got a Sandman S already and when I put it on my 12.5, it starts feeling more and more like my 14.5.

My thought is to either buy a 556 specific can (Dead Air is supposed to have one at some point) or get a K can.

Has anyone done a direct thread K can on an 11.5 or 12.5 and regretted it? I shoot with earpro 99% of the time but I don't like a fireball at night. Thoughts?

I have a Rex Silentium MG7(.358 bore diameter) and a Socom RC1 I run on 11.5 and 12.5 guns. I have a 4 baffle MGX from Rex in jail right now. The REX cans are 1.7" wide so a little fatter than normal, and I really like the look.

My MG7 bored at .358 is quieter on my 11.5 than the SOCOM RC1 is on my 12.5. This is, of course, my own perception, I don't have testing equipment, but it was noticeable to me. The tone is also more like a "psshhh" and less like a pop.

The guys at REX said my incoming 4 baffle (bored at .224) will be quieter than my RC1, and I wouldn't be surprised if they're right. I'm happy with the shorter cans.

@FuhQ does make a good point, even if I don't want to admit it, that being able to use a longer suppressor and not have to run earpro all the time is nice.

But I also didn't buy my MG7 or MG4 for that purpose. My MG7 on my 11.5 is what I personally consider just above hearing safe. Meaning I don't mind taking a shot or two in the fields or woods without earpro, even though 95% of the time I shoot I have earpro on. I won't do the same with my SOCOM, as it is more noticeably unpleasant to the ears without earpro.

That all being said, I also use these cans on all my longer barreled guns (20/18" AR's, 6.5cm bolt, 223AI bolt, .357 levergun) and for those purposes they work fine and I haven't felt I needed earpro when I shoot outside (field shooting, no structures).

I'm a fan of shorter cans, but I also understand having longer ones. I'd highly recommend looking into the MG7 .224 Can. You can also get an MGX can and make them built to your specs with how many ever baffles you want. His MG7 standard line is 6 baffle. You can go from 3 baffle up to 18 baffle with his MGX can.

 

[kthomas]

If you want a shorter suppressor, why not get one that is short and fat (~1.7+" OD), that way you still have the volume to suppress better then a regular K can.

Options to look at would be Abel Co. Biscuit (1.85" OD) , Rex Silentum (various models, 1.70" OD), KGM R30K (1.75" OD), etc.

 

[Huskydriver]

If you want a shorter suppressor, why not get one that is short and fat (~1.7+" OD), that way you still have the volume to suppress better then a regular K can.

Options to look at would be Abel Co. Biscuit (1.85" OD) , Rex Silentum (various models, 1.70" OD), KGM R30K (1.75" OD), etc.

Tbac dominus

 

[kthomas]

Tbac dominus

I was actually just about to post this option, beat me to it!

The Dominus/Dominus-K (1.80" OD) would be an obvious premium option to consider.

 

[stello1001]

And the nomad30 as well, although I own the dominus...

 

[chrismartin]

An opposing opinion, I love my K cans. I run a turbo K on a 11.5" gun. It absolutely takes a lot of the edge off, especially if you're shooting with ear pro most of the time anyway. It's short, light, and works exactly as I want it to. Highly recommend the setup!

Same here. I love my Sandman-K. I mostly shoot with other people around, so having the best sound suppression is not a priority. I just want to take the edge off. I mostly shoot bolt guns now-a-days, so it sits on my precision rifles. Other than that, it's on various SBRs. I bought the Sandman-K when they were running the Hearing Protection Act sale, so it was pretty cheap. If I were buying today, it would probably be a Turbo-K, or I'd spend more money and get a TBAC can or something super light and short (Ultra 5 or 7).

 

[NHR]

It's crazy that some people can't fathom another person having different priorities.

To summarize:
-A K can will not be as quiet as a full size
-A K can will be quieter than an unsuppressed rifle
-Port pop on ARs is loud regardless of what can you use


If the size and weight are important to you, K cans are great. If you're after maximum DB reduction, long cans and bolt guns are your best bet.

I find value in the K can for hunting, biathlons, and carbine matches. I also own a full size .30 cal can for times when size and weight don't matter. Like another poster mentioned, if you're just shooting from a bench it doesn't matter. Hanging a 1 lb ~8in can on the end of an AR does ruin the handling.

 

[rlsmith1]

I have a Rex Silentium MG7(.358 bore diameter) and a Socom RC1 I run on 11.5 and 12.5 guns. I have a 4 baffle MGX from Rex in jail right now. The REX cans are 1.7" wide so a little fatter than normal, and I really like the look.

My MG7 bored at .358 is quieter on my 11.5 than the SOCOM RC1 is on my 12.5. This is, of course, my own perception, I don't have testing equipment, but it was noticeable to me. The tone is also more like a "psshhh" and less like a pop.

The guys at REX said my incoming 4 baffle (bored at .224) will be quieter than my RC1, and I wouldn't be surprised if they're right. I'm happy with the shorter cans.

@FuhQ does make a good point, even if I don't want to admit it, that being able to use a longer suppressor and not have to run earpro all the time is nice.

But I also didn't buy my MG7 or MG4 for that purpose. My MG7 on my 11.5 is what I personally consider just above hearing safe. Meaning I don't mind taking a shot or two in the fields or woods without earpro, even though 95% of the time I shoot I have earpro on. I won't do the same with my SOCOM, as it is more noticeably unpleasant to the ears without earpro.

That all being said, I also use these cans on all my longer barreled guns (20/18" AR's, 6.5cm bolt, 223AI bolt, .357 levergun) and for those purposes they work fine and I haven't felt I needed earpro when I shoot outside (field shooting, no structures).

I'm a fan of shorter cans, but I also understand having longer ones. I'd highly recommend looking into the MG7 .224 Can. You can also get an MGX can and make them built to your specs with how many ever baffles you want. His MG7 standard line is 6 baffle. You can go from 3 baffle up to 18 baffle with his MGX can.

I've actually got an MGX on the way in 338 that will be more of a standard size with a set of baffles to make it magnum length (15). I've heard their baffle design is higher pressure than other cans but I'm waiting to see with the one I have on order. Sounds like you haven't had any issues though? Less baffles means less back pressure too so it probably evens out. My Biggest question is flash... Have you shot it at night? The Rex cans check a lot of boxes...

@kthomas that Biscuit looks pretty good too. Any experience with them?

 

[Huskydriver]

It's crazy that some people can't fathom another person having different priorities.

To summarize:
-A K can will not be as quiet as a full size
-A K can will be quieter than an unsuppressed rifle
-Port pop on ARs is loud regardless of what can you use


If the size and weight are important to you, K cans are great. If you're after maximum DB reduction, long cans and bolt guns are your best bet.

I find value in the K can for hunting, biathlons, and carbine matches. I also own a full size .30 cal can for times when size and weight don't matter. Like another poster mentioned, if you're just shooting from a bench it doesn't matter. Hanging a 1 lb ~8in can on the end of an AR does ruin the handling.

I agree with you on everything but your port pop claims. You can 100% have hearing safe numbers at the port and se...it usually means you will have louder muzzle numbers as there is no free lunch. As a rule for ar's I generally run a oversized bore for this reason because I want it as quiet as possible for my ears. Could care less about the homies they better stay behind me while I'm shooting

Ask Todd at dead air @Mageever since he's prolly slacking off at shot .

You also can have a relatively quiet ar just running a S class can for only an inch or so more length than a K with marginal weight gaines is most of our opposing point.

Your money knock yourself out but you are sacrificing alot of suppression to be marginally shorter with a k but it may make sense for your intended use. Hunting is def valid or if your milsimming a shoot house regularly

 

[rlsmith1]

For real, I'm only exploring other options because I've been waiting on Todd to release their 556 can for a long time!

 

[kthomas]

I've actually got an MGX on the way in 338 that will be more of a standard size with a set of baffles to make it magnum length (15). I've heard their baffle design is higher pressure than other cans but I'm waiting to see with the one I have on order. Sounds like you haven't had any issues though? Less baffles means less back pressure too so it probably evens out. My Biggest question is flash... Have you shot it at night? The Rex cans check a lot of boxes...

@kthomas that Biscuit looks pretty good too. Any experience with them?

I don't yet, but I do have one currently in ATF jail.

@hic28 is your guy to contact in regards to the Biscuit. And there's a thread about it here:

Abel Company - new offerings - Suppressors!​

 

[rlsmith1]

Just read that thread, lots of great info. Sweet company that seems to listening to some smart people too

 

[Quiet6.8]

I run a EA VoxK on a 20” 308 and it does it job for a hunting rig, added OAL and OAW were my two deciding factors for this silencer / rifle combination

 

[Bluedog82]

I have a Rex MG7K in .30 that I run on an 11.5. I just shot it in a night match last month using cheap steel case ammo, and don’t recall any noticeable flash (with white light, not NODs). It definitely makes shooting with muffs very comfortable on that gun or my 10.5 AK pistol, where’s its night and day with the can vs with a blast shield. It also sounds great on my 6.5CM bolt gun… I say go for it!