Talk me out of a Wilson Combat 20” Match Barrel

[Rangemaster]

Just built a new AR and went out to sight the sucker in over the weekend and I would have had better groups with my shotgun.
I was trying to make a light weight AR tactical rifle for local matches, but with groups that look like a shotgun blast is unacceptable.

 

[sanpedroranch]

There are a number of great barrel makers. On my bolt guns shilen select match, bartlein, krieger and Mcgowen have been my go to companies. I used to run BHW on my ar's pretty exclusively until I ventured out of 223. I used a couple of shilens for some "nicer" builds in calibers other than 5.56. then one day last Xmas I scored a fantastic deal on a 18" fluted recon in 6.5CrMr . I was expecting decent groups sub moa .7-1's. What I got with a quick break in was more like .3's with 40gr of IMR 4350 and 140gr Nosler CC. Accuracy is great, but it's a bit of a slower shooting barrel. Not really a gripe as I have had top tier barrels shoot slower. Several other guys ordered barrels during that sale and no one has had any complaints. A 6 Creedmoor, 7.62 WT, (2) 6.5 Creedmoor, and (1) 308 was ordered in total. My Only complaint was gas port. I had to open it up it was significantly undersized. Other than that I will probably go with WC barrels going forward. Not just for the money but for the accuracy We are all sold on WC barrels. I know WC has very strict qc. I have a pair of WC 1911's and I have yet to see anything leave Arkansas not live up to the WC reputation.

 

[XLR308]

The only WC barrel I have is in 68spc but it has been a great barrel so far. If you truly feel it is the barrel and not something associated with the build I would contact them and see if they will correct it.

 

[RNWRKNP]

Have a Wilson 6.5 CM heavy fluted 24” and love it. Banging steel over a 1000 no problem.

 

[Frankly]

I'd try to eliminate every other possible cause before switching barrels.

Try your "bad" barrel/upper on another lower. Swap any other barrel in to see if the inaccuracy is repeatable.

https://www.precisionfirearms.com has a lot of stuff to ponder.

 

[Rangemaster]

There are a number of great barrel makers. On my bolt guns shilen select match, bartlein, krieger and Mcgowen have been my go to companies. I used to run BHW on my ar's pretty exclusively until I ventured out of 223. I used a couple of shilens for some "nicer" builds in calibers other than 5.56. then one day last Xmas I scored a fantastic deal on a 18" fluted recon in 6.5CrMr . I was expecting decent groups sub moa .7-1's. What I got with a quick break in was more like .3's with 40gr of IMR 4350 and 140gr Nosler CC. Accuracy is great, but it's a bit of a slower shooting barrel. Not really a gripe as I have had top tier barrels shoot slower. Several other guys ordered barrels during that sale and no one has had any complaints. A 6 Creedmoor, 7.62 WT, (2) 6.5 Creedmoor, and (1) 308 was ordered in total. My Only complaint was gas port. I had to open it up it was significantly undersized. Other than that I will probably go with WC barrels going forward. Not just for the money but for the accuracy We are all sold on WC barrels. I know WC has very strict qc. I have a pair of WC 1911's and I have yet to see anything leave Arkansas not live up to the WC reputation.

Oh i have several ar rifles with match grade barrels, wilson arms, krieger, bartlein, etc. What I am building is a gun for shooting 100 yards to 300 yards. I would normally use my 6mm FatRat rifle for this match. But the cost of brass and 105 bergers was killing me. I am looking for a quick swap, and was wanting feedback.

 

[RTH1800]

The Navy did your research for you. Get a Douglas. Or, you can be a doubter like me and buy a couple dozen “better” barrels. Build them up, shoot a few thousand rounds downrange chronograph them until you own stock in Duracell then buy Douglas barrels. Fast, accurate and long life.

 

[hlee]

Go to your local box box sporting goods store and buy a box of every flavor of ammo in your caliber. Good money says one will shoot well in your rifle. You don't say what ammo you shot, but the above is what I do when bringing a new rifle into the house. Once I identify a good factory offering, I work up a handload for the rifle. Factory ammo makes a good backup. I don't have a single (factory) rifle that doesn't shoot moa with at least one factory offering and my hand loads...

 

[ccoker]

I have had a lot of nice ARs and used all sorts of barrels
I am VERY happy with my WC rifles and the barrels I have used in builds.
Never had one that didn't shoot very, very well.

Having said that, be sure and try different match quality ammo before making a decision to switch as well as checking everything out on the gun..

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I have never had an AR that didn't have a preference for some ammo, and a true-blue hatred for others. Until you find that it shoots bad across the board using a bunch of the available choices, keep the barrel/fix the ammo.

If this is a trick question, and your mind was already made up; nobody can talk you out of the WC barrel.

Greg

 

[XLR308]

Without knowing all of the details of your build and not knowing your skill level when it comes to building AR type rifles there are just to many variables given the limited info in your OP. It has been my experience that an AR in 556 are not that fussy and is generally an accurate platform even with less than premium components. There are a few considerations and processes that I myself allways perform but others may not consider them to be as crucial I just have had good luck doing it my way and stick to what works.
Some of the main items I allways check are as follows.
1) Lapping of the upper receiver face to ensure even contact, not always necessary with quality components but check them regardless.
2) Barrel extension to upper receiver fit, if they are snug I leave as is if there is a bit more play than I like I use loctite slip fit compound to bed it.
3) I prefer to use a clamp on gas block but have used quite a few of the set screw type so long as you dont get overzealous with tightening them and create a pressure point in the barrel. Many would be surprised just how much pressure those little set screws can exert with minimal force.
4) I allways check and then double check both inside and out to ensure there are no burrs or small metal chips left at the gas port location from the drilling process, they can jack up the inside of a barrel if not caught. No one is perfect and any manufacturer can miss small things like that.
5) Many others may disagree with this one but I do not like 1/2-28 muzzle threads there just seems like to much material removed from one of the most critical areas of the barrel.
6) one of the final things I obsess over is proper torque of all the threaded connections, I know many accurate rifles are built with little more than an armourers wrench but if accuracy is the ultimate goal then all of the processes should be as accurate and repeatable as possible.

There are plenty more things that could be covered here but those are some of the main things I allways cover when assembling a new rifle.

 

[bigjake83]

Oh i have several ar rifles with match grade barrels, wilson arms, krieger, bartlein, etc. What I am building is a gun for shooting 100 yards to 300 yards. I would normally use my 6mm FatRat rifle for this match. But the cost of brass and 105 bergers was killing me. I am looking for a quick swap, and was wanting feedback.

100-300????

Just build a 20" Grendel Upper

 

[Rangemaster]

I'd try to eliminate every other possible cause before switching barrels.

Try your "bad" barrel/upper on another lower. Swap any other barrel in to see if the inaccuracy is repeatable.

https://www.precisionfirearms.com has a lot of stuff to ponder.

Without knowing all of the details of your build and not knowing your skill level when it comes to building AR type rifles there are just to many variables given the limited info in your OP. It has been my experience that an AR in 556 are not that fussy and is generally an accurate platform even with less than premium components. There are a few considerations and processes that I myself allways perform but others may not consider them to be as crucial I just have had good luck doing it my way and stick to what works.
Some of the main items I allways check are as follows.
1) Lapping of the upper receiver face to ensure even contact, not always necessary with quality components but check them regardless.
2) Barrel extension to upper receiver fit, if they are snug I leave as is if there is a bit more play than I like I use loctite slip fit compound to bed it.
3) I prefer to use a clamp on gas block but have used quite a few of the set screw type so long as you dont get overzealous with tightening them and create a pressure point in the barrel. Many would be surprised just how much pressure those little set screws can exert with minimal force.
4) I allways check and then double check both inside and out to ensure there are no burrs or small metal chips left at the gas port location from the drilling process, they can jack up the inside of a barrel if not caught. No one is perfect and any manufacturer can miss small things like that.
5) Many others may disagree with this one but I do not like 1/2-28 muzzle threads there just seems like to much material removed from one of the most critical areas of the barrel.
6) one of the final things I obsess over is proper torque of all the threaded connections, I know many accurate rifles are built with little more than an armourers wrench but if accuracy is the ultimate goal then all of the processes should be as accurate and repeatable as possible.

There are plenty more things that could be covered here but those are some of the main things I allways cover when assembling a new rifle.

 

[Rangemaster]

Without knowing all of the details of your build and not knowing your skill level when it comes to building AR type rifles there are just to many variables given the limited info in your OP. It has been my experience that an AR in 556 are not that fussy and is generally an accurate platform even with less than premium components. There are a few considerations and processes that I myself allways perform but others may not consider them to be as crucial I just have had good luck doing it my way and stick to what works.
Some of the main items I allways check are as follows.
1) Lapping of the upper receiver face to ensure even contact, not always necessary with quality components but check them regardless.
2) Barrel extension to upper receiver fit, if they are snug I leave as is if there is a bit more play than I like I use loctite slip fit compound to bed it.
3) I prefer to use a clamp on gas block but have used quite a few of the set screw type so long as you dont get overzealous with tightening them and create a pressure point in the barrel. Many would be surprised just how much pressure those little set screws can exert with minimal force.
4) I allways check and then double check both inside and out to ensure there are no burrs or small metal chips left at the gas port location from the drilling process, they can jack up the inside of a barrel if not caught. No one is perfect and any manufacturer can miss small things like that.
5) Many others may disagree with this one but I do not like 1/2-28 muzzle threads there just seems like to much material removed from one of the most critical areas of the barrel.
6) one of the final things I obsess over is proper torque of all the threaded connections, I know many accurate rifles are built with little more than an armourers wrench but if accuracy is the ultimate goal then all of the processes should be as accurate and repeatable as possible.

There are plenty more things that could be covered here but those are some of the main things I allways cover when assembling a new rifle.

Only the best, vortex gen ii scope, timney trigger, JP silent caputre, three different stocks. magpul prs, A2, magpul ctr.
This thing cycles like a dream, but shoots like a shot gun.

 

[Rangemaster]

100-300????

Just build a 20" Grendel Upper

I have two fatrats by Lee, but with the shortages with berger its hurting to run my rats.

 

[Rangemaster]

Here is the groups, the left is five shot groups with 69 SMK ‘s and the right is the groups using 10 shot groups same load.

 

[hlee]

Factory? Brand? Handloads? Have you tried any other ammo? I have a lr308 that shoots one load into a “group” you’d be hard pressed to cover with a cowboy hat, and another load you could cover with a nickel.

 

[XLR308]

Only the best, vortex gen ii scope, timney trigger, JP silent caputre, three different stocks. magpul prs, A2, magpul ctr.
This thing cycles like a dream, but shoots like a shot gun.

Well then I would have to say if you feel like you have exhausted every possibility and don't think it's anything you can attribute to the build contact WC and see were that goes. I hope you can get it it sorted out considering the pics of the groups you posted are far from the norm.
When my youngest son was seven we were getting ready to go hog hunting (his first trip getting to shoot not just hang with dad) and he shot a five shot group under 1" at a 100 yards using Hornady 120sst factory loads in an AR I assembled with a WC barrel. That was his first time ever shooting an AR from a bipod, wish I could take all the credit for that but would have to attribute most to a quality barrel and ammo.

 

[ccoker]

what barrel do you have?

 

[Rangemaster]

what barrel do you have?

Freedom barrel from PSA.

 

[XLR308]

Freedom barrel from PSA.

So then I'm guessing you didn't order this barrel from Wilson Combat? Is it stamped Wilson Combat?

 

[Rangemaster]

Factory? Brand? Handloads? Have you tried any other ammo? I have a lr308 that shoots one load into a “group” you’d be hard pressed to cover with a cowboy hat, and another load you could cover with a nickel.

I have exhausted my tests with this barrel, i have several AR’s all built for different type matches. All shoot great groups. I shoot a lot of AR tactical matches, so I need two rifles all the time. You never know when something will go wrong at a match. Most of ammo is hand loads from 55 gr to 77 gr SMKs.

 

[Rangemaster]

So then I'm guessing you didn't order this barrel from Wilson Combat? Is it stamped Wilson Combat?

No, I just ordered the Wilson Barrel today. I was looking for people who have them and how they shoot before I buy one.

 

[XLR308]

No, I just ordered the Wilson Barrel today. I was looking for people who have them and how they shoot before I buy one.

Ok well then that sheds some light into the darkness of this thread. In all fairness to WC I have no affiliation to them other than products I have bought in the past but I think there was some misrepresentation of the barrel in question here.

 

[ccoker]

Thanks, I have replaced two Noveske barrels (new) that didn't meet my expectations with WC barrels that did.
I have 2 WC 6.8s rifles, a 5.56 with 2 uppers (14.5 and 18") WC 308 and an 8" 9mm

All shoot GREAT!

 

[Wile_Coyote]

My 6mm Creedmoor is a WC. Great barrel so far. Wouldn't hesitate to get another WC.

 

[Rangemaster]

I should have the new barrel here tuesday.

 

[ccoker]

cool, hopefully it has a nice tight fit into the receiever

 

[PAYDIRT]

Go to your local box box sporting goods store and buy a box of every flavor of ammo in your caliber. Good money says one will shoot well in your rifle. You don't say what ammo you shot, but the above is what I do when bringing a new rifle into the house. Once I identify a good factory offering, I work up a handload for the rifle. Factory ammo makes a good backup. I don't have a single (factory) rifle that doesn't shoot moa with at least one factory offering and my hand loads...

I agree 100% Ive been broke most of my life and had to "make" things work. I even have a handi rifle that took a bunch of homework but it shoots moa.

 

[KrashIntoTNT]

Thanks, I have replaced two Noveske barrels (new) that didn't meet my expectations with WC barrels that did.
I have 2 WC 6.8s rifles, a 5.56 with 2 uppers (14.5 and 18") WC 308 and an 8" 9mm

All shoot GREAT!

Interested in selling one of the Noveske barrels?

 

[ccoker]

sorry, long gone

 

[sanpedroranch]

FYI ordered an 18" ss fluted recon 1-10" for 259.99 plus tax and shipping. It's on sale

 

[ccoker]

cool. that is what is in my WC 308, it's a shooter for sure

 

[Rangemaster]

The new barrel and adjustible gas block finally arrived.

 

[oldnmkid]

I shot my WC a couple of days ago for the first time. I was very pleased with 1/2" groups. Quite honestly, I was surprised it shot that good as the rifle still has the stock trigger. My best group was 1/2" (twice) and after that about 3/4". I prefer a very light trigger so I'm thinking I'll get an aftermarket one. So, the WC has done it's part. No regrets here.

 

[gopherslayer]

Very underrated barrels. I love mine. Built my 6.8 and my buddy’s 6.8 at the same time. Here’s the sight in pic I sent him. Walked 3 up with crappy Nikon Buckmaster 3-9. Remaining 7 from the mag in the same hole. Factory 110 VMax.

My barrels shot the same with 120 SST factory loads. 90 gr gold dots do well at killing 2 liter soda bottles at 330 yards.

 

[ccoker]

YEP!
Get a Wilson Combat single stage trigger, I order mine set to 3lbs