Rifle Scopes Talk me out of it...or tell me to go for it...

[Exo]

Alright guys, here's the deal...I started a thread some months ago about a new setup (and had it all figured out) but due to some financial issues it got put on hold. Fast forward to today, and im ready to drop some coin (in the next week or two).

I had originally got my heart set on the Midway special Vortex 5x15 mil/mil scope but it has since been discontinued...

Now I am looking at the vortex 6.5x20x44. For a little background, this is going on a hunting rig.
(Vortex Viper Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 6.5-20x 44mm Side Focus Mil-Dot)
(Vortex Optics - Viper 6.5-20x44 PA Mil Dot)

I have some reservations about a couple things here...
1. MIL reticle (which i like) and MOA adjustments. I read somewhere on here that mixing the two is just bad ju-ju. You either want MOA/MOA or MIL/MIL, is this correct?
2. Minimum power is 6.5, on a hunting rig is this too much? Accurate ranging with the MIL reticle needs to be done on 14 power.
3. I am open to recommendations, but my price point is SUB $500, not a dollar over....

 

[tacshooter223]

1. I don't think you'll have much of a problem with the non-matching turrets, as they are covered and it's doubtful you'll be adjusting them besides zeroing (correct me if I'm wrong assuming your intentions)
2. Depending on how far your average shots are, you could run into a problem. Seeing as it looks like you're from AZ I'm guessing your shots won't be as close as for me here in PA where the average shot on a deer was 50 yards. So to better answer #2, we would need to know what you think your average shot distance would be and what exactly you'd be hunting. Maybe the 6.5 power would be better for smaller animals even at 50 yards (I assumed deer or large game).

 

[Exo]

1. I was halfway thinking about getting some custom turrets made in the future (Vortex | Kenton Industries) but for the most part your right, I wont be dialing in much, more so holdover, but I do like having the quick adjustment (if needed) my current scope is a cheap ass 3x9 mil/moa adjustable and having that option is nice.
2. yes, most shots are going to be 75 yards plus.

 

[KillShot]

Mixing the turrets/reticle is just plain stupid, in my (unprofessional) opinion. Why complicate things?

There's enough variables in the field that a shooter has to deal with than having to do extra math because he didn't get an optic with matching turrets and reticle. Pick the one you want, be it moa or mil, and go with it.

Everyone has their own preference and many will argue why which is better, but go with whatever YOU are comfortable with using.

 

[tomcat mv]

Thinking about getting that scope myself. By the way, Long Range Supply has them for $399.

 

[Facemelter]

I have the exact scope you have the link of in your first post on my 308. For a 400 dollar scope,I love it. The glass is clear,the turrets have a nice strong click,returnability is great and warranty you cant beat. Granted the reticle and turrets dont match,but you learn to overcome and deal with it. If your going to sight it in and use hold overs,I say run it and dont look back.

 

[Exo]

ok just for shit's and giggles...

can anyone point me to a 4x16 (or greater) MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA scope under $500

 

[Graham]

1) Mixing MOA turrets and a Mil reticle is an excuse for not learning what you need to know.
2) High magnification, on a $500 variable power scope, is a tourist trap.
3) For what you want, unless you want to send it back when it breaks and wait for it to be fixed, you need to add $1000 to your budget.

 

[Crosshair]

I think this scope deserves a look, it is 12x on the top end but it mil/mil and very very lightweight:
Leupold 4-12x40 Mark AR MOD 1 Riflescope

Another mil/mil (and FFP) under $500 is:
Falcon Menace 4-14x44 Tactical 30mm Riflescope

And one more mil/mil that is $48 over your budget, but may be helpful to others reading this thread is:
Burris 4.5-14x42 MTAC 30mm Rifle Scope

I don't really know of any others above the 3-10x range that are mil/mil for under $500 that I could recommend for hunting.

 

[Defusion]

I'm no hunter, but reading quite a few of these threads, you might want to go with a lower power scope.
Whats wrong with your 3x9? If just the quality, not so much the magnification range, just get a better 3x9 scope.

 

[Exo]

1) Mixing MOA turrets and a Mil reticle is an excuse for not learning what you need to know.
2) High magnification, on a $500 variable power scope, is a tourist trap.
3) For what you want, unless you want to send it back when it breaks and wait for it to be fixed, you need to add $1000 to your budget.

Graham,
I can appreciate that, and would LOVE to have a nice high end scope. Bottom line is it is NOT going to happen anytime soon. I agree with you with the mixing of turrets / reticles, unfortunately it seems that this is what a majority of the scopes in this price point offer.

 

[Exo]

I think this scope deserves a look, it is 12x on the top end but it mil/mil and very very lightweight:
Leupold 4-12x40 Mark AR MOD 1 Riflescope

Another mil/mil (and FFP) under $500 is:
Falcon Menace 4-14x44 Tactical 30mm Riflescope

And one more mil/mil that is $48 over your budget, but may be helpful to others reading this thread is:
Burris 4.5-14x42 MTAC 30mm Rifle Scope

I don't really know of any others above the 3-10x range that are mil/mil for under $500 that I could recommend for hunting.

Thanks Crosshair, I was looking at the AR MOD 1..I was looking at midwayusa and it specifically stated this optic being calibrated for a .223/5.56 type weapon. Im looking to put something on my 700 .308, what are your thoughts? Am I over thinking this???

I'm no hunter, but reading quite a few of these threads, you might want to go with a lower power scope.
Whats wrong with your 3x9? If just the quality, not so much the magnification range, just get a better 3x9 scope.

I was shooting at a 3' x 18" silhouette at 800yds and the reticle almost covered up the target. I think its both actually, quality and magnification.

 

[BCP]

Thanks Crosshair, I was looking at the AR MOD 1..I was looking at midwayusa and it specifically stated this optic being calibrated for a .223/5.56 type weapon. Im looking to put something on my 700 .308, what are your thoughts? Am I over thinking this???

I was shooting at a 3' x 18" silhouette at 800yds and the reticle almost covered up the target. I think its both actually, quality and magnification.

I wouldn't put more than a 3-9 on a hunting rifle. Scopes like the zeiss conquest/meopta are what get my attention for 500 or less. Leupold has some interesting ones with the VXR label I believe a BDC reticule and BDC knobs tailored to your cartridge. So that could be an option as well.

If you want to shoot at longer ranges think about a more target oriented scope on a target-oriented rifle.

The vortex 5-15 is a good start for under 500, I don't know how reliable they are but it has a good balance of features and Vortex stands behind their product.

 

[jjrgr21]

the midway weaver tac 3-10 would be a good choice.

and 16X is a lot of mag. most scopes in the sub $1k range with high mag are not 100% usable. the PST 4-16 is barely usable @16 on hot days. the PST 6-24 is def better, but with a higher low end.

 

[Crosshair]

Thanks Crosshair, I was looking at the AR MOD 1..I was looking at midwayusa and it specifically stated this optic being calibrated for a .223/5.56 type weapon. Im looking to put something on my 700 .308, what are your thoughts? Am I over thinking this???

The Mod1 series is has mil adjustments like any other scope, with additional yardage marks at the top of the turret that are factory calibrated for 55 gr .223 @3200 fps, and also an extra dial in .308 168 gr @2650 fps. This scope uses replaceable dials with yardage marks for fast and dirty dialing. You can get unlimited dials for $40 each with your own custom parameters for any load from Leupold's Custom Dial Shop (CDS). Or, you can disregard the yard marks at the top completely and just use it as a regular mil/mil scope-- and this is mostly what I'd recommend.

 

[Exo]

Thanks guys!! I think I am going to go with the Leupold AR MOD 1 4x12. Having the reticle and turrets match I think will pay off in the long run to be able to use this scope for more than JUST hunting. The CDS option is a better deal than the $110 for custom turrets for the Vortex as well.

Here is my platform I am putting together...any thoughts / concerns?

rings = Burris 1 Xtreme Tactical Picatinny-Style Rings Matte Medium
base = Weaver 1-Piece Extended Multi-Slot Tactical Picatinny-Style Base
scope = Leupold Mark AR MOD 1 Rifle Scope 4-12x 40mm 1/10 Mil Adjustments

 

[Graham]

Here is my platform I am putting together...any thoughts / concerns?

The performance of your scope will be no better than the ability of the base and rings to do their job.

 

[Quarter Horse]

Check your ring height. The low rings will probably give you sufficient clearance.

 

[Exo]

[MENTION=37460]Quarter Horse[/MENTION]

the forward housing (???) is 2" , the tube is 1", (which would leave appx 1/2 inch difference), the low rings are 1/4" height, and the medium rings are 1/2" height. I cant find (and I dont know) how tall the 20MOA base is to fully be able to tell if the clearance on the end of the scope will clear the barrel...

I would ASSUME the medium rings would make the end of the scope/base of the ring sit level if placed on a flat surface.

 

[BCP]

Thanks guys!! I think I am going to go with the Leupold AR MOD 1 4x12. Having the reticle and turrets match I think will pay off in the long run to be able to use this scope for more than JUST hunting. The CDS option is a better deal than the $110 for custom turrets for the Vortex as well.

Here is my platform I am putting together...any thoughts / concerns?

rings = Burris 1 Xtreme Tactical Picatinny-Style Rings Matte Medium
base = Weaver 1-Piece Extended Multi-Slot Tactical Picatinny-Style Base
scope = Leupold Mark AR MOD 1 Rifle Scope 4-12x 40mm 1/10 Mil Adjustments

I would get a warne base and maybe warne rings too they are better quality than the burris and in the same price range.

That scope looks neat but I'm not particularly familiar with it I'm sure someone else will chime in though.

edit: I have low warnes on a warne base on a rem 700 and a 42mm scope clears with plenty of room to spare.

 

[Quarter Horse]

Burris extremes are measured from the base of the ring that contacts the rail to the bottom of the race for the scope. You are correct that low rings are 1/2" with this dimension. The top of the rail will probably be about .3"+ above the front bridge so you add that. Then the barrel does not have a butt diameter that is equal to the full height of the bridge. Additionally the barrel tapers. I am assuming you will use a 20deg. rail, as that will get you to 1000yds. with you scope, which will angle your scope down from ocular to objective. The loss of height from the angle of the scope will not use up the additional height gained from the taper of the barrel and the height of the rail. You should have plenty of room with a 40mm objective and Bushnell Extreme low rings.

 

[steve123]

I have 3 Midway BSA tactical 4-14's which are FFP/Mil/Mil, very happy with them for the money. That being said the most powerful rifle they've been mounted on is a 17 Remington. Hopefully you can find some reviews of them mounted on more powerful rifles to help you make a decision as to whether it's a scope worth considering.

Not a penny more... There's very few times in my life when I bought expensive higher quality items not really in the budget that I was sorry I went ahead and splurged for. The opposite has pissed me off more times than I care to admit, usually causing a loss of $ in the end. Those BSA's I mentioned are the only cheap scopes I've thought worth more than the price.

The SWFA 3-15 FFP Mil/MIL is supposed t be a great scope also. Looking hard at getting one myself.

 

[billyburl2]

I have hunted quite a bit in the state of AZ, and found that 3-9 will do the job nicely. That being said, I have since moved on to higher mag scopes, mainly for shooting comps(when I get the time). The lesson I learned pretty fast about scopes, is that features, good glass, and low-cost are very rare to find in the same package. I have had eyeballs on Steve's BSA's, and they are pretty good. But I haven't shot them. I also own a SS 3-15, and a SS 10x, and a SS 5-20HD. The 10x, and the 5-20 have stood up to just about 1000 rounds of 300wsm recoil, each, without a hiccup. The 10x even survived the POS Burris rings I had on my rifle when it only weighed 6lbs. They didn't hold. I wouldn't recommend those rings for hold ANYTHING but maybe a flashlight on a very soft recoiling rifle. Scope rings and bases are not a place to skimp. If on a budget, go with Talley light weight rings. Talley Lightweight Aluminum 1" Scopemount
I know they are not "tactical" but they flat work!

 

[Red_Beard]

The guy I trust most when it comes to optics is ILya Koshkin and he did a great review of some scopes in your price range $400: Born in Europe, Assembled in the US

My recommendation is to wait another month or 2 and spend an extra 100 bucks on a SWFA 3-9x42. It has matching reticle/turrets, FFP and great optics for the price, but there are other scopes he reviewed that fit in your price range now if waiting isn't an option