Talk to me about 6.5 Creedmoor in a GAP-10

[Flyboy22]

I'm fairly new to precision shooting but excited about learning. I've decided to go with a GAP-10 for the present and hope to take it out to 1000 yards with practice. I've done lots of reading, and it seems like many of you are absolutely sold on 6.5CM over the standard .308. I initially plan to use this weapon to learn long range precision fundamentals, and potentially join competitions down the road as my skills improve. Hunting is not a priority for this rifle. Another variable is I currently do not reload (though certainly would like to learn at some point).

To sum up the pros and cons of 6.5CM as I understand them so far:

+Better BC, flatter flight profile
+Better in wind
+Less recoil

-Shorter barrel life (vs .308)
-Requires longer barrel for effective velocities (?)
-Much less factory ammo available, brass hard to find

I am not made of money, so cost of ammo is a factor to me as well. I see that Hornady 120 A-MAX match is about $1.20/rnd right now, whereas .308 match tends to be around $1.50/rnd (ie. FGGM).

Other factors I'm considering are the barrel length. I would like the rifle to be of reasonable size/weight, be able to mount a brake, and potentially suppressible. These desires would limit me to a maximum of a 20" barrel.

Ultimately, what do you guys suggest? I really like the idea of 6.5 Creedmoor and am willing to accept the barrel life compromise. I'm essentially worried that a 20" barrel is too short to get adequate MV, and that the lack of match quality ammo will limit my options as a non-reloader.

I await your infinite wisdom!

 

[The Lawn Ranger]

6.5 Creedmoor Gap 10
- 20"-22" barrel length
- get the adjustable gas block if you plan to shoot suppressed
- shoot the Hornady 140 over the 120 Amax. 130 vlds at 2800 fps are best for this caliber in a gas gun.
- Copper Creek loads the 130's
- reload ASAP. You won't save money you will just shoot more.
- don't worry about barrel life

 

[fireguyty]

Spend half as much on an ugly $1200 DPMS and shoot circles around any of those guys with $3K gas guns. With the difference, buy a reloading kit and run the 139 Lapua's. After all this is done, smile.

Ty

 

[pkt1199]

6.5 Creedmoor Gap 10
- 20"-22" barrel length
- get the adjustable gas block if you plan to shoot suppressed
- shoot the Hornady 140 over the 120 Amax. 130 vlds at 2800 fps are best for this caliber in a gas gun.
- Copper Creek loads the 130's
- reload ASAP. You won't save money you will just shoot more.
- don't worry about barrel life

Agree for the most part however its been mentioned a few times in other threads about how these guns prefer the 120s and 130s over the 140s.

I'm about 8 months into my wait for nearly the exact same build you listed above. Food for thought - if you are going this route and plan on reloading you might also consider the 6mm Creedmoor in GAP 10. A number of positive reviews on it as well as it ever so slightly edges out the 6.5 (just don't pretend you will be buying ammo at the store).

 

[swhiteh3]

Why do the gas guns tend to prefer the lighter bullets?

 

[The Lawn Ranger]

It's been my experience that you can't run the heavier bullets fast enough.

The 130 vld is a good compromise because you get the speed (+2800 fps) and good BC 0.552 G1/ 0.282 G7.

I was ringing the 1000 yd target all day at TVP on Sunday.

 

[pkt1199]

Why do the gas guns tend to prefer the lighter bullets?

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting.../211887-why-lighter-bullets-6-5-gas-guns.html

 

[Mike from Texas]

What is the purpose and why would anyone choose the Creedmore over the ballistically equal and much better established 260 Remington or even the 6.5 x 47 Lapua.


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[shooter.dm]

I do agree with the get a dpms route its a lot cheaper and shoots verry tight groups I would recommend a new trigger tho and with the money u save you can get better glass and a reloading kit as for the cal .260 and 6.5cm are both great about the same just with the .260 will probley save u a lil bit more money

 

[Flyboy22]

What price do you pay for getting a 20" barrel as opposed to something like a 24 or 26 inch? (Obviously Muzzle Velocity, but how much does this practically affect long range shooting?)

 

[LawnMM]

I will be the dissenting opinion I suppose. A GAP 10 in 6.5cm is not a beginners gun. You are looking at around a 10 month wait and around 2500-3000 bucks before you even think about glass. Gas guns are not as forgiving with regard to the fundamentals. The fundamentals you plan to acquire with this gun. You should consider a Remington 700 with a 20" 1:10 Twist - Threaded barrel. Can be had for around 750 with plenty of room leftover for base, rings, bipod, scope, rear bag, data book, reloading kit, reloading supplies.

You don't buy a Ferrari to learn how to drive, start with a Honda. After you have a good hold on the basics you can start looking at the whiz bang gas guns in high BC calibers. Or don't take my advice, fork out upwards of 3k for a rifle you will wait for 10 months to realize you still need other gear and that hitting targets at 1k isn't as easy as it is in the movies.

That's my advice for your situation, don't be offended by it.

 

[The Lawn Ranger]

This is my observation shooting the three and how it would pertain to shooting them through a gas gun.

1. 6.5x47L- Underpowered compared to the CM and 260 to begin with. Shoot them through a gas gun and you will be losing another 80-100 fps
compared to a bolt gun.

2. 260 Rem- On par for speed with the CM but the CM case design suits the gas gun platform better because the case is .1" shorter
than the 260 so you can load bullets slighty longer in AR magazines.

3. The CM case feeds very nicely through a gas gun.

Again, these are just my observations so take away what you will.

What is the purpose and why would anyone choose the Creedmore over the ballistically equal and much better established 260 Remington or even the 6.5 x 47 Lapua.


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[Flyboy22]

I will be the dissenting opinion I suppose. A GAP 10 in 6.5cm is not a beginners gun. You are looking at around a 10 month wait and around 2500-3000 bucks before you even think about glass. Gas guns are not as forgiving with regard to the fundamentals. The fundamentals you plan to acquire with this gun. You should consider a Remington 700 with a 20" 1:10 Twist - Threaded barrel. Can be had for around 750 with plenty of room leftover for base, rings, bipod, scope, rear bag, data book, reloading kit, reloading supplies.

You don't buy a Ferrari to learn how to drive, start with a Honda. After you have a good hold on the basics you can start looking at the whiz bang gas guns in high BC calibers. Or don't take my advice, fork out upwards of 3k for a rifle you will wait for 10 months to realize you still need other gear and that hitting targets at 1k isn't as easy as it is in the movies.

That's my advice for your situation, don't be offended by it.

I hear what you're saying, my friend. I'm not dead set on 6.5CM, just trying to educate myself. Concerning the GAP-10, I realize it will be less forgiving regarding correct shooting fundamentals. I suppose my reasoning is that that is a good thing. I want to learn correctly, and not get away with poor technique. I've already invested in quality glass (hopefully a one time purchase), and I look at the rifle as a training tool with room for growth. I have no expectation of scoring hits at 1K right off the get go. I hope to take precision courses when I'm back in the lower 48, and also join a shooting club to gain knowledge & experience.

I guess I want to invest in quality gear so I can focus on my own shooting ability rather than troubleshooting gear issues. I will probably need the 10 month lead turn of the GAP-10 to save up for it after buying the glass, and winter shooting in Alaska isn't that awesome anyway. Between the rifle and glass, it will be a while before I can justify the purchase of reloading equipment, Kestrals, spotting scopes, and all the other fancy gear. One step at a time! I'm excited about the hobby and eager to learn. Thanks for all the help you guys have and will provide in the future.

 

[308Shooter1911]

If you want the Gap 10, get the Gap 10. Don't cheap out with the DPMS, because everytime you get a flyer, shoot a bad group, etc, you will be wondering if it's you, or the gun. With the Gap 10, you will have to OWN every bad shot. I'm not saying the DPMS is a bad gun, but you will end up buying the Gap eventually, because it's what you originally wanted. "Buy once, cry once"....Went through the same thing buying a Rem 700 when I really wanted the AI. Put all the bells and whistles on her and now what am I doing??? Buying an AI...

 

[D Miller]

I am not made of money, so cost of ammo is a factor to me as well. I see that Hornady 120 A-MAX match is about $1.20/rnd right now, whereas .308 match tends to be around $1.50/rnd (ie. FGGM).

Other factors I'm considering are the barrel length. I would like the rifle to be of reasonable size/weight, be able to mount a brake, and potentially suppressible. These desires would limit me to a maximum of a 20" barrel.

Ultimately, what do you guys suggest? I really like the idea of 6.5 Creedmoor and am willing to accept the barrel life compromise. I'm essentially worried that a 20" barrel is too short to get adequate MV, and that the lack of match quality ammo will limit my options as a non-reloader.

I await your infinite wisdom!

I have 2 bolt rifles in 6.5creedmoor right now and could not be happier with them. One has a 26" barrel while the other has a 16.5". Barrel length becomes far less of a concern if you do decide to reload some day since you can build a load for you exact rifle. For example I have a 123 gr scenar & varget load for my 16.5" creed that matches my 139&H4350 DOPE for the 26" nearly identical. Both of those rounds shoot right around 2800-2850fps. The only thing it gives up is a slight bit of windage with the lighter projectiles but still way less than any 308.

Any length barrel can be threaded for a brake or suppressor.

120gr Amax ammo seems to be readily available but the 140gr is a little rare at this time.

One of only 2 firearms I regret selling is my 6.5creedmoor DPMS. I dropped many a .5moa group with that rifle using 139gr hand loads and 140 gr factory. Im not sure if that's normal accuracy from a DPMS or if it was a stand out but I would have put that particular rifle up against a G10 any day for 1/3 the cost.

 

[Flyboy22]

I think I will go for the 6.5CM, and start reading about reloading In the meantime, I've set up a 16" Daniel Defense M4 for precision, and can hopefully get some good practice with my new optic over the next 10 months.

Is the .223 cartridge decent enough for learning the basics of ballistics, wind estimation, and fundamentals? The glass will easily get the cartridge out to it's ballistic limits if my brain can figure it out!

 

[308Shooter1911]

Just remember, when reloading for a gas gun, you will need to full length size your brass. This works the brass more, giving less life to the brass. Lapua may be the go to brass for bolt guns, but you may want to choose a less expensive brass for your gas gun.

 

[Flyboy22]

Just remember, when reloading for a gas gun, you will need to full length size your brass. This works the brass more, giving less life to the brass. Lapua may be the go to brass for bolt guns, but you may want to choose a less expensive brass for your gas gun.

Just for budget planning purposes... how much would you guesstimate a quality reloading kit costs? Minus supplies... just the cost to produce round 1.

 

[308Shooter1911]

For reloading for precision rifles only, get a single stage. If you ever plan on reloading for pistol you may consider a progressive. I went with a progressive, but I wish I had gone with a single stage, because I will never reload for pistol, but thought I might. A LEE single stage kit will run you about $120. I recommend the Hornady, they will run about $320, but to me they have better components...

 

[pkt1199]

The kit cost is just the start of the costs. You will easily add 2-300 more in parts/components to get that first round: caliper, dies, gages, tumbler, components, book(s). That said - it is incredibly worth it IMO. Producing QUALITY ammo on your schedule is amazing.

Check out the reloading and reloading depot sub-forums. Ton of information there.

 

[krummarine]

Grabagun.com has the DPMS 6.5 CM for 985.00 right now.

DPMS Rifle R65 Panther CREED 6.5FXD Online Gun Store

 

[308Shooter1911]

The kit cost is just the start of the costs. You will easily add 2-300 more in parts/components to get that first round: caliper, dies, gages, tumbler, components, book(s). That said - it is incredibly worth it IMO. Producing QUALITY ammo on your schedule is amazing.

Check out the reloading and reloading depot sub-forums. Ton of information there.

Yeah, forgot about all that other stuff. Start with a kit, dies and calipers, and take it from there. There's a list of shit I could tell you to buy, but it all isn't necessary from jump. Try youtubing AGI reloading video. A lot of good information on there. He takes it to the extreme, but good info...

 

[308Shooter1911]

AGI 321 Handloading for the Long Range Shooter - YouTube

 

[The Gump]

1) Fuck DPMS.
2) I would not hesitate on a 6.5 Creedmore. I have a Mike Rock barrel chamered in .260 for my LMT MWS but the Creedmore has a more efficient case design that feeds better. That being said I have not had any feeding issues with .260. I do get flat primers with 140 AMAX's and 44.0gr of H4350. I've been thinking about going to the 123's.
3)A Semi is fun in a match but searching for brass sucks.
4)Burning up a barrel is not necessarily a bad thing. Rebarreling gives you the opportunity to try new calibers.
5)Fuck DPMS.

 

[Flyboy22]

1) Fuck DPMS.
2) I would not hesitate on a 6.5 Creedmore. I have a Mike Rock barrel chamered in .260 for my LMT MWS but the Creedmore has a more efficient case design that feeds better. That being said I have not had any feeding issues with .260. I do get flat primers with 140 AMAX's and 44.0gr of H4350. I've been thinking about going to the 123's.
3)A Semi is fun in a match but searching for brass sucks.
4)Burning up a barrel is not necessarily a bad thing. Rebarreling gives you the opportunity to try new calibers.
5)Fuck DPMS.

Searching for brass? Is it terribly inefficient to buy factory match ammo, shoot it, and keep the brass for reloading? Definitely not being sarcastic, I have no idea about this stuff

I absolutely believe in buying quality the first time, almost to a fault (cough S&B!). Is a reloading KIT the way to go, or should I research / buy components separately? I know in many other disciplines (ie sound systems for example), kits tend to be cheapy, with much better components available individually. Just wondering if the same is true for reloading. The last thing I'd want is to buy a kit and then replace half the components.

 

[George Mac]

Where did you get the LMT 260 barrel? I love my 24" 6.5 CM bolt gun and would love to shoot 6.5 CM 140's out of my LMT MWS...

 

[The Gump]

Searching for brass? Is it terribly inefficient to buy factory match ammo, shoot it, and keep the brass for reloading? Definitely not being sarcastic, I have no idea about this stuff

I absolutely believe in buying quality the first time, almost to a fault (cough S&B!). Is a reloading KIT the way to go, or should I research / buy components separately? I know in many other disciplines (ie sound systems for example), kits tend to be cheapy, with much better components available individually. Just wondering if the same is true for reloading. The last thing I'd want is to buy a kit and then replace half the components.

Not in cost of factory ammo. More in how the design of the case makes use of the charge. In the end they are close enough that it does not make a huge difference. Brass is brass. Buy enough to burn the barrel when you buy the gun. I'm not sure what that is for 6.5C. 3K-4K rounds? So maybe 800-1K pieces of brass? Just plan on loosing it at a match. That's my philosophy at least.

I bought the RCBS rock chucker kit and went from there. Everyone has their way of going about it. It all costs money. If I could give any advice on a path forward, buy the nicer stuff the first time, expect to spend time finding out what works for you with regard to tools and process, and be safe.

 

[The Gump]

Where did you get the LMT 260 barrel? I love my 24" 6.5 CM bolt gun and would love to shoot 6.5 CM 140's out of my LMT MWS...

I bought a used barrel and had a local smith do his magic.