I have a "tanker" Garand. I have already added a scope. Its still not very accurate. I'd like to have it accurized by a competent gunsmith, beginning with the trigger! What all would you suggest having done? Does any company make a replacement trigger? Or is this a case of having a $1000 worth of gun smithing done to a $500 gun in order to get a $350 rifle?
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Tanker Garand
- Thread starter bill rogers
- Start date
Re: Tanker Garand
Garands are great guns. I love mine.
...but unless worked over they are military "acceptable" at 3-4 MOA, and thats for a full length one. I dont know what to expect with a tanker. I imagine its a fun gun but I wouldnt be buying it for the accuracy factor as much as the cool factor. If you do a search for Shuffs Restorations/Garands you may be able to get help there, he builds some very nice tankers.
What distance are you shooting at? The tanker must incinerate everything out to 10 feet and your bullets would be required for everything beyond that range.
Garands are great guns. I love mine.
...but unless worked over they are military "acceptable" at 3-4 MOA, and thats for a full length one. I dont know what to expect with a tanker. I imagine its a fun gun but I wouldnt be buying it for the accuracy factor as much as the cool factor. If you do a search for Shuffs Restorations/Garands you may be able to get help there, he builds some very nice tankers.
What distance are you shooting at? The tanker must incinerate everything out to 10 feet and your bullets would be required for everything beyond that range.
Re: Tanker Garand
You could get a custom barrel. The stock garand trigger isn't bad.
The garand I have (full size + criterion barrel) shoots about 1.5-2" @ 100 with handloads from a rest.
You could get a custom barrel. The stock garand trigger isn't bad.
The garand I have (full size + criterion barrel) shoots about 1.5-2" @ 100 with handloads from a rest.
Re: Tanker Garand
I haven't taken it to a gunsmith, yet. I just wanted to know if it was a foolish errand. But the advice, so far, is giving me hope.
I haven't taken it to a gunsmith, yet. I just wanted to know if it was a foolish errand. But the advice, so far, is giving me hope.
Re: Tanker Garand
A tanker is too cool to trash up. I sold a guy a matching serial number Russian SKS with great wood in mint condition and he put a plastic stock and an extended clip on it. I just groaned.
Buy a M1a (socom) and run it ragged.
I'm sure I'll irritate somebody but some things should just be left pristine.
A tanker is too cool to trash up. I sold a guy a matching serial number Russian SKS with great wood in mint condition and he put a plastic stock and an extended clip on it. I just groaned.
Buy a M1a (socom) and run it ragged.
I'm sure I'll irritate somebody but some things should just be left pristine.
Re: Tanker Garand
I have one of Tim Shufflin's (Shuff's Parkerizing) Mini Gs. I love that little gun. I had Tim put a Smith Muzzle brake on and holy $hit! I shot once accidentally without plugs and had my ears ringing.
For accuracy mine is decent enough with M2 ball ammo. It is easily minute of elk in the brush so I never worried about it. One thing you need to consider is these were designed for full length barrels. Velocity................. I don't even want to know what muzzle velocity is on a cut down Garand. I think the muzzle blast would shred the fins on my chrono.
Fun as hell gun, plus for me with Tim's adjustable gas plug I can run any flavor fodder to feed it. Just work it up till it cycles. I would leave it as is. Get an AR platform if you're wanting accuracy and leave your Tanker as a fun gun.
I have one of Tim Shufflin's (Shuff's Parkerizing) Mini Gs. I love that little gun. I had Tim put a Smith Muzzle brake on and holy $hit! I shot once accidentally without plugs and had my ears ringing.
For accuracy mine is decent enough with M2 ball ammo. It is easily minute of elk in the brush so I never worried about it. One thing you need to consider is these were designed for full length barrels. Velocity................. I don't even want to know what muzzle velocity is on a cut down Garand. I think the muzzle blast would shred the fins on my chrono.
Fun as hell gun, plus for me with Tim's adjustable gas plug I can run any flavor fodder to feed it. Just work it up till it cycles. I would leave it as is. Get an AR platform if you're wanting accuracy and leave your Tanker as a fun gun.
Re: Tanker Garand
Yep, it is a fun little gun. That is why I am disappointed with its accuracy at a hundred yards.
Correct my if I am wrong, but the shortened barrel and operating rod that comprise the tanker Garand concept are all after market changes. So it isn't really pristine anymore. That is why it isn't in the gun safe with the others.
I think that a trigger job, from "Trigger Works" that was suggested above, wouldn't be too great a deviation. And so I believe that I'll try that first, before laying out a lot of dough. On the other hand I've always wanted a Socom M1a!
Yep, it is a fun little gun. That is why I am disappointed with its accuracy at a hundred yards.
Correct my if I am wrong, but the shortened barrel and operating rod that comprise the tanker Garand concept are all after market changes. So it isn't really pristine anymore. That is why it isn't in the gun safe with the others.
I think that a trigger job, from "Trigger Works" that was suggested above, wouldn't be too great a deviation. And so I believe that I'll try that first, before laying out a lot of dough. On the other hand I've always wanted a Socom M1a!
Re: Tanker Garand
The military did experiment with a cut down version of the Garand but it was a prototype deal. These would be exceedingly rare and are probably destroyed, locked away in some high end collection or in a museum at this point. Unless you hasd some sort of history to expect an original rifle I'd assume you have a commercial construction.
Individual pieces - receiver, trigger pack, barrel bands, stock if uncut - may have value but as a whole your gun fits the modified category and would hold no overall value collecting wise.
Are there import marks on the barrel or stamps added by other than the armory tat produced it? What is marked on the heel of the receiver? Was it one of the four US contractors?
Parts for your trigger pack are readily available so stoning and mods will be relatively easy. A big part of Garasnd accuracy is stock to receiver fit. Check for tight lock up when you are closing your trigger guard. Having to wham the TG closed with a leather mallet is a good thing. Inversely too tight a fit that interferes with the op rod is a bad thing. Look for areas on the wood channel that show rubbing of wood and metal. The "tilt test" is an important aspect of M1 building. If you do a search for M1 Garand tilt test you will get more info.
Note these checks are assuming full size and tanker fit the same pattern. Your gun is custom not GI and these points may not apply. There are a bunch of accuracy concerns regarding the gas cylinder and front handguardof a full length Garand but I dont know if they would apply to a cut down.
The military did experiment with a cut down version of the Garand but it was a prototype deal. These would be exceedingly rare and are probably destroyed, locked away in some high end collection or in a museum at this point. Unless you hasd some sort of history to expect an original rifle I'd assume you have a commercial construction.
Individual pieces - receiver, trigger pack, barrel bands, stock if uncut - may have value but as a whole your gun fits the modified category and would hold no overall value collecting wise.
Are there import marks on the barrel or stamps added by other than the armory tat produced it? What is marked on the heel of the receiver? Was it one of the four US contractors?
Parts for your trigger pack are readily available so stoning and mods will be relatively easy. A big part of Garasnd accuracy is stock to receiver fit. Check for tight lock up when you are closing your trigger guard. Having to wham the TG closed with a leather mallet is a good thing. Inversely too tight a fit that interferes with the op rod is a bad thing. Look for areas on the wood channel that show rubbing of wood and metal. The "tilt test" is an important aspect of M1 building. If you do a search for M1 Garand tilt test you will get more info.
Note these checks are assuming full size and tanker fit the same pattern. Your gun is custom not GI and these points may not apply. There are a bunch of accuracy concerns regarding the gas cylinder and front handguardof a full length Garand but I dont know if they would apply to a cut down.
Re: Tanker Garand
It will most likely never shoot with a varmitized AR. It isn't supposed to. It is the 1940s version of the M4. I personally wouldn't scope it unless your eyes are very bad. It is a fun gun to run open sighted. I have two, both are the full sized. One is in .308 and has been bedded and floated. It will shoot sub moa but is now a very delicate piece to handle. No grabbin by the front wood, no rough handling at all. I don't hand it to anyone unfamiliar with a accursed M1 as the risk of damage to the front hardware is too great. My other one is stock. It is a ton of fun to blast plates with and break clay targets at 100 yards. It is also fun to miss plates and clay targets at 100 yards. Go have fun with the gun and post some pics.
It will most likely never shoot with a varmitized AR. It isn't supposed to. It is the 1940s version of the M4. I personally wouldn't scope it unless your eyes are very bad. It is a fun gun to run open sighted. I have two, both are the full sized. One is in .308 and has been bedded and floated. It will shoot sub moa but is now a very delicate piece to handle. No grabbin by the front wood, no rough handling at all. I don't hand it to anyone unfamiliar with a accursed M1 as the risk of damage to the front hardware is too great. My other one is stock. It is a ton of fun to blast plates with and break clay targets at 100 yards. It is also fun to miss plates and clay targets at 100 yards. Go have fun with the gun and post some pics.
Re: Tanker Garand
Nope, no papers, history, or provenance. I'm pretty sure that it is in a commercial after market non-pristine condition So I think that it is a shooter. But I don't intend to do anything too radical that can't be undone.
And it did mention to me, the other day, that it wanted to go black bear hunting next Sept. Of course I couldn't promise anything until it worked on its accuracy a little.
Nope, no papers, history, or provenance. I'm pretty sure that it is in a commercial after market non-pristine condition So I think that it is a shooter. But I don't intend to do anything too radical that can't be undone.
And it did mention to me, the other day, that it wanted to go black bear hunting next Sept. Of course I couldn't promise anything until it worked on its accuracy a little.
Re: Tanker Garand
I would leave it alone. You're spot on about putting $1000 into a gun that's not worth it.
You'd be much better off buying a M1A (if you want that style) or something else (AR-10, etc.).
It's very hard to make something into what it isn't, but very easy to make something into what it already is... or something like that
I would leave it alone. You're spot on about putting $1000 into a gun that's not worth it.
You'd be much better off buying a M1A (if you want that style) or something else (AR-10, etc.).
It's very hard to make something into what it isn't, but very easy to make something into what it already is... or something like that
Re: Tanker Garand
As already suggested, do-it yourself:
-trigger work with a ceramic stone
-trigger guard fit
-bbl to gas cylinder fit to "unitized"/tightened by lightly peening
see: "Accurizing the Standard M1 Rifle" by Angelica or something similar has had good results for me with standard length M-1's
http://mysite.verizon.net/stuems/Accurizing%20the%20Standard%20M1%20Rifle%20Angelica.pdf
http://forum.shuffsparkerizing.com/showthread.php?371-Links-From-Old-Forum
As already suggested, do-it yourself:
-trigger work with a ceramic stone
-trigger guard fit
-bbl to gas cylinder fit to "unitized"/tightened by lightly peening
see: "Accurizing the Standard M1 Rifle" by Angelica or something similar has had good results for me with standard length M-1's
http://mysite.verizon.net/stuems/Accurizing%20the%20Standard%20M1%20Rifle%20Angelica.pdf
http://forum.shuffsparkerizing.com/showthread.php?371-Links-From-Old-Forum
Re: Tanker Garand
Ok, so here is the plan: I'm going to send the trigger assembly to the Trigger Works. Potential improvement: lighten trigger pull up the 15% and reduce creep up the 70%, without changing the firearm much from original. Cost: $39 includes priority return mailing. Unintended consequences: There is the potential that it takes Trigger Works a long time or you never see your parts again, but a trigger assembly is very replaceable. Then I'm going to see if those four inch groups shrink a little.
Then in the mean time I'm going to think about everything Angelica wrote in that article, find a local gunsmith, and talk to them about the article. You know, just to see if they are agreeable to the project.
Ok, so here is the plan: I'm going to send the trigger assembly to the Trigger Works. Potential improvement: lighten trigger pull up the 15% and reduce creep up the 70%, without changing the firearm much from original. Cost: $39 includes priority return mailing. Unintended consequences: There is the potential that it takes Trigger Works a long time or you never see your parts again, but a trigger assembly is very replaceable. Then I'm going to see if those four inch groups shrink a little.
Then in the mean time I'm going to think about everything Angelica wrote in that article, find a local gunsmith, and talk to them about the article. You know, just to see if they are agreeable to the project.
Re: Tanker Garand
I'd really talk to Shuff first. He did excellent work rebarreling my Garand with a CMP Criterion. He also recessed the crown on both barrels, stoned the sear, parkerized everything perfectly and replaced a cracked handguard with one of his own. This rifle shoots 1-2 MOA.
I'd really talk to Shuff first. He did excellent work rebarreling my Garand with a CMP Criterion. He also recessed the crown on both barrels, stoned the sear, parkerized everything perfectly and replaced a cracked handguard with one of his own. This rifle shoots 1-2 MOA.
Re: Tanker Garand
Tanker Garands, or any custom firearm is neat. But like custom cars, jewelry, or pretty much any custom item, custom guns are almost never worth what you put into them. I think you are right about putting $1000 into a $500 rifle only to have one worth $350.
But if you like the rifle, and want to shoot it, build whatever pleases you. The primary reason for building custom guns is for the owner to enjoy them.
On the other hand, if you are building a rifle to make money, then you would need a different set of parameters for what you build.
Tanker Garands, or any custom firearm is neat. But like custom cars, jewelry, or pretty much any custom item, custom guns are almost never worth what you put into them. I think you are right about putting $1000 into a $500 rifle only to have one worth $350.
But if you like the rifle, and want to shoot it, build whatever pleases you. The primary reason for building custom guns is for the owner to enjoy them.
On the other hand, if you are building a rifle to make money, then you would need a different set of parameters for what you build.
Re: Tanker Garand
Tanker Garands often have two problems with the barrels.
#1. A barrel with a worn muzzle is shortened to Tanker style, which gives a new muzzle. But, it does absolutely nothing for the worn throat. One often sees Tanker Garands listed with brand new muzzles, but very worn throats, and that does nothing for accuracy.
#2. A 2 piece barrel. People used to take worn out Garand barrels, cut off the front, and sleeve in a turned down 1903 Springfield barrel. This also does nothing for the accuracy. This is often a barrel visable seam line around the barrel at the taper from the major chamber diameter to the major barrel diameter about 4" in front of the chamber. These barrels often have only 2 grooves in them, as many 1903 barrels often did.
What kind of barrel does yours have? Military or commercial. Pull the op rod back and check the numbers stamped on the side of the barrel. If it is a military barrel it could have one of those two problems.
I built my Tanker, using a kit I got from Numrich, in .308 Win, and it is one of my more accurate guns. If you decide to go back to iron sights, put on a National Match front sight. They are thinner, but since the front sight is closer to your eyes, it appears the same width as the standard sight on a standard length barrel.
Tanker Garands often have two problems with the barrels.
#1. A barrel with a worn muzzle is shortened to Tanker style, which gives a new muzzle. But, it does absolutely nothing for the worn throat. One often sees Tanker Garands listed with brand new muzzles, but very worn throats, and that does nothing for accuracy.
#2. A 2 piece barrel. People used to take worn out Garand barrels, cut off the front, and sleeve in a turned down 1903 Springfield barrel. This also does nothing for the accuracy. This is often a barrel visable seam line around the barrel at the taper from the major chamber diameter to the major barrel diameter about 4" in front of the chamber. These barrels often have only 2 grooves in them, as many 1903 barrels often did.
What kind of barrel does yours have? Military or commercial. Pull the op rod back and check the numbers stamped on the side of the barrel. If it is a military barrel it could have one of those two problems.
I built my Tanker, using a kit I got from Numrich, in .308 Win, and it is one of my more accurate guns. If you decide to go back to iron sights, put on a National Match front sight. They are thinner, but since the front sight is closer to your eyes, it appears the same width as the standard sight on a standard length barrel.
