Has anyone had a chance to shoot a Tavor? One of my old college roommates is a Canadian citizen and got his hands on one of these and I had the chance to shoot same. Very accurate, very fast to sight onto a target, a little tail heavy. I liked this gun better than my Scar 16 and my Sig 556. Not sure that it's even available in the USA. Just curious if anyone else has had a chance to shoot this AR.
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Tavor
- Thread starter prairiefire
- Start date
Re: Tavor
Tavor is an Israeli bullpup design. From all the bullpup semi-auto I only shot Steyr AUG, and found it more comfortable to shoot than AR15 - except when prone (depends also on the mag on AUG - I used 42-rnd). Another disadvantage of AUG shows up if you need to shoot from the weak side - it is adjustable, but not on-the-fly. My personal opinion - overall I liked AUG's ergonomics, balance, speed of acquiring targets, etc. much better than AR15.
Looking at the pictures and the specs of Tavor - it seems close enough to AUG for my comments to loosely apply.
Tavor is an Israeli bullpup design. From all the bullpup semi-auto I only shot Steyr AUG, and found it more comfortable to shoot than AR15 - except when prone (depends also on the mag on AUG - I used 42-rnd). Another disadvantage of AUG shows up if you need to shoot from the weak side - it is adjustable, but not on-the-fly. My personal opinion - overall I liked AUG's ergonomics, balance, speed of acquiring targets, etc. much better than AR15.
Looking at the pictures and the specs of Tavor - it seems close enough to AUG for my comments to loosely apply.
Re: Tavor
Everyone will have their own opinions of bullpup designs. I strongly suggest people try before they buy. For example, I'm not a fan at all of the AUG and AUG clone rifles. Magazine changes are typically a lot slower than running an AR platform weapon. It is nearly impossible to get an aggressive, high support hand hold on the weapon because you end up grabbing the barrel/gas block area. This isn't a problem for someone shooting a few rounds but when you are actually running the gun your support hand can't find a comfortable placement shy of down on the forward grip.
There are other ergonomic issues I found with the AUG that just didn't work for me. Other folks I am sure might feel differently.
Triggers on bullpups usually are not as nice as you can get with a more traditional design. Most bullpups use some type of linkage system that I find less than crisp and clean breaking.
I've not shot the Tavor though. As mentioned, it is an Israeli design and there aren't many in the USA. I know some guys who have played with the Tavors but, like me, they simply aren't big fans of bullpup designs in general.
Everyone will have their own opinions of bullpup designs. I strongly suggest people try before they buy. For example, I'm not a fan at all of the AUG and AUG clone rifles. Magazine changes are typically a lot slower than running an AR platform weapon. It is nearly impossible to get an aggressive, high support hand hold on the weapon because you end up grabbing the barrel/gas block area. This isn't a problem for someone shooting a few rounds but when you are actually running the gun your support hand can't find a comfortable placement shy of down on the forward grip.
There are other ergonomic issues I found with the AUG that just didn't work for me. Other folks I am sure might feel differently.
Triggers on bullpups usually are not as nice as you can get with a more traditional design. Most bullpups use some type of linkage system that I find less than crisp and clean breaking.
I've not shot the Tavor though. As mentioned, it is an Israeli design and there aren't many in the USA. I know some guys who have played with the Tavors but, like me, they simply aren't big fans of bullpup designs in general.
Re: Tavor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Triggers on bullpups usually are not as nice as you can get with a more traditional design.</div></div>
I've heard this too. You try DTA SRS (bullpup precision rifle, several good reviews here on SH) and tell me then what you think of bullpup triggers!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magazine changes are typically a lot slower than running an AR platform weapon.</div></div>
Those who shoot AUG regularly claim that mag changes are as fast as on AR15. I cannot confirm it due to my lack of practice and experience, but suspect that designers of a battle rifle like AUG would have figured the way to change the mags quickly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is nearly impossible to get an aggressive, high support hand hold on the weapon because you end up grabbing the barrel/gas block area.</div></div>
I confess I don't have a clue what you're talking about here. AUG forces you into a nice strong <span style="text-decoration: underline">compact</span> stance, with both hands on the support handles (and to me it's tons more comfortable and ergonomic than either AR15 or AK-47, with or without foregrip). Why on earth would you want to spread your arms wider? Not for bayonet fighting I hope? (<span style="font-style: italic">There is a bayonet for AUG, and I've seen bayonets for handguns - fitting like tits on a bore.
</span>)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are other ergonomic issues I found with the AUG that just didn't work for me. Other folks I am sure might feel differently.</div></div>
Yeah people typically either love them or hate 'em.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Triggers on bullpups usually are not as nice as you can get with a more traditional design.</div></div>
I've heard this too. You try DTA SRS (bullpup precision rifle, several good reviews here on SH) and tell me then what you think of bullpup triggers!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magazine changes are typically a lot slower than running an AR platform weapon.</div></div>
Those who shoot AUG regularly claim that mag changes are as fast as on AR15. I cannot confirm it due to my lack of practice and experience, but suspect that designers of a battle rifle like AUG would have figured the way to change the mags quickly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is nearly impossible to get an aggressive, high support hand hold on the weapon because you end up grabbing the barrel/gas block area.</div></div>
I confess I don't have a clue what you're talking about here. AUG forces you into a nice strong <span style="text-decoration: underline">compact</span> stance, with both hands on the support handles (and to me it's tons more comfortable and ergonomic than either AR15 or AK-47, with or without foregrip). Why on earth would you want to spread your arms wider? Not for bayonet fighting I hope? (<span style="font-style: italic">There is a bayonet for AUG, and I've seen bayonets for handguns - fitting like tits on a bore.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are other ergonomic issues I found with the AUG that just didn't work for me. Other folks I am sure might feel differently.</div></div>
Yeah people typically either love them or hate 'em.
Re: Tavor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Triggers on bullpups usually are not as nice as you can get with a more traditional design.</div></div>
I've heard this too. You try DTA SRS (bullpup precision rifle, several good reviews here on SH) and tell me then what you think of bullpup triggers!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magazine changes are typically a lot slower than running an AR platform weapon.</div></div>
Those who shoot AUG regularly claim that mag changes are as fast as on AR15. I cannot confirm it due to my lack of practice and experience, but suspect that designers of a battle rifle like AUG would have figured the way to change the mags quickly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is nearly impossible to get an aggressive, high support hand hold on the weapon because you end up grabbing the barrel/gas block area.</div></div>
I confess I don't have a clue what you're talking about here. AUG forces you into a nice strong <span style="text-decoration: underline">compact</span> stance, with both hands on the support handles (and to me it's tons more comfortable and ergonomic than either AR15 or AK-47, with or without foregrip). Why on earth would you want to spread your arms wider? Not for bayonet fighting I hope? (<span style="font-style: italic">There is a bayonet for AUG, and I've seen bayonets for handguns - fitting like tits on a bore.
</span>)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are other ergonomic issues I found with the AUG that just didn't work for me. Other folks I am sure might feel differently.</div></div>
Yeah people typically either love them or hate 'em.
</div></div>
I have tried DTA triggers. I did state bullpups "usually" have less than stellar triggers. There are some exceptions to this though and some modifications that can be made to some triggers.
While it is true that magazine changes are generally a training issue, I've personally found the learning curve on the AUG and most other bullpup design rifles steeper than that of something like an AR.
I personally don't like assuming anything, which is why I try to gain first-hand experience something. If you assume all firearm designs are without faults or room for improvement, well I don't know what to say to that other than prepare to be very disappointed. LOL.
Firearm designs continue to evolve as people find better ways to achieve a desired result. In fact, some newer designs (like the SCAR as one example) have even fallen short of expectations once actual users started testing the products.
Regarding body posture and stance, many people who actively compete/train have evolved to a shooting stance with the support hand high and forward on the weapon. This is an example and generally how I run something like an AR.
The stance is squared to the target, same as shooting a pistol. Bring your weapon and support hands and arms in tight to the body. Stance is NOT bladed to the target. Support hand higher on the weapon allows for faster target tracking and better recoil management. It is a user preference, so this might not work for everyone. But try running an AUG like that and tell me what happens to your support hand. LOL. Let me save you the pain - your hand will get burned.
Look, there really is no perfect answer on one perfect solution that fits everyone. It all comes down to user preference and what works best for YOU.
Take care.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Triggers on bullpups usually are not as nice as you can get with a more traditional design.</div></div>
I've heard this too. You try DTA SRS (bullpup precision rifle, several good reviews here on SH) and tell me then what you think of bullpup triggers!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magazine changes are typically a lot slower than running an AR platform weapon.</div></div>
Those who shoot AUG regularly claim that mag changes are as fast as on AR15. I cannot confirm it due to my lack of practice and experience, but suspect that designers of a battle rifle like AUG would have figured the way to change the mags quickly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is nearly impossible to get an aggressive, high support hand hold on the weapon because you end up grabbing the barrel/gas block area.</div></div>
I confess I don't have a clue what you're talking about here. AUG forces you into a nice strong <span style="text-decoration: underline">compact</span> stance, with both hands on the support handles (and to me it's tons more comfortable and ergonomic than either AR15 or AK-47, with or without foregrip). Why on earth would you want to spread your arms wider? Not for bayonet fighting I hope? (<span style="font-style: italic">There is a bayonet for AUG, and I've seen bayonets for handguns - fitting like tits on a bore.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are other ergonomic issues I found with the AUG that just didn't work for me. Other folks I am sure might feel differently.</div></div>
Yeah people typically either love them or hate 'em.
</div></div>
I have tried DTA triggers. I did state bullpups "usually" have less than stellar triggers. There are some exceptions to this though and some modifications that can be made to some triggers.
While it is true that magazine changes are generally a training issue, I've personally found the learning curve on the AUG and most other bullpup design rifles steeper than that of something like an AR.
I personally don't like assuming anything, which is why I try to gain first-hand experience something. If you assume all firearm designs are without faults or room for improvement, well I don't know what to say to that other than prepare to be very disappointed. LOL.
Regarding body posture and stance, many people who actively compete/train have evolved to a shooting stance with the support hand high and forward on the weapon. This is an example and generally how I run something like an AR.
The stance is squared to the target, same as shooting a pistol. Bring your weapon and support hands and arms in tight to the body. Stance is NOT bladed to the target. Support hand higher on the weapon allows for faster target tracking and better recoil management. It is a user preference, so this might not work for everyone. But try running an AUG like that and tell me what happens to your support hand. LOL. Let me save you the pain - your hand will get burned.
Look, there really is no perfect answer on one perfect solution that fits everyone. It all comes down to user preference and what works best for YOU.
Take care.
Re: Tavor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regarding body posture and stance, many people who actively compete/train have evolved to a shooting stance with the support hand high and forward on the weapon. This is an example and generally how I run something like an AR.</div></div>
First - I really appreciate that you brought a picture to demonstrate your point. I understand perfectly now what you were saying about the stance.
I must also say that I've much more experience with AK than with AR15 (or M16), and that I personally tend to dislike M16 quite a bit. That aside - I tried the posture your picture shows, and found it uncomfortable - mostly because of the weight balance of the weapon. Probably that (weapon balance) is one of the qualities that attracts me to AUG and repulses from AR15.
My training with AUG was very limited - but sufficient to fully confirm what you're saying: holding in front of the receiver anywhere but the front handle will get the hand burned. It's just that I found I can move from target to target quicker in a "tight" position with arms close to the body - like what a good bullpup allows and unlike what one can do with a longer firearm (which may necessitate the posture like you described).
And thank you for a great exchange!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regarding body posture and stance, many people who actively compete/train have evolved to a shooting stance with the support hand high and forward on the weapon. This is an example and generally how I run something like an AR.</div></div>
First - I really appreciate that you brought a picture to demonstrate your point. I understand perfectly now what you were saying about the stance.
I must also say that I've much more experience with AK than with AR15 (or M16), and that I personally tend to dislike M16 quite a bit. That aside - I tried the posture your picture shows, and found it uncomfortable - mostly because of the weight balance of the weapon. Probably that (weapon balance) is one of the qualities that attracts me to AUG and repulses from AR15.
My training with AUG was very limited - but sufficient to fully confirm what you're saying: holding in front of the receiver anywhere but the front handle will get the hand burned. It's just that I found I can move from target to target quicker in a "tight" position with arms close to the body - like what a good bullpup allows and unlike what one can do with a longer firearm (which may necessitate the posture like you described).
And thank you for a great exchange!
Re: Tavor
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And thank you for a great exchange! </div></div>
That is what this place is all about - helping each other out and learning from each other.
Hope you have an awesome day.
