Templar action owners chime in! Sticky bolt !

A

alpha6164

Full Member
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 3, 2008
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Jacksonville, FL
#1
I just picked up a GAP FBI HRT rifle from a friend which has the Templar action. The rifle has a little over 300 rounds and although i have not shot it, i have seen it in action and it is a hammer. My only concern/question is that the action is not very smooth and sticks quite a bit. If there is the slightest side to side force, the the bolt will stick and does not want to slide in smoothly.

My other GAP rifle is based on the Rem 700 action and it is smooth as glass. I also have a Tikka T3 Tactical which is also like butter. I called GAP and the gentlemen that answered explained that it is expected to be that way and is because of the tight tolerances. I can see where that makes sense but wanted to hear other owners to see if you guys also have similar experience or not? All inputs appreciated.
 
#3
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

GAP Crusader with Templar action. It has about 600 rounds on it and has been smooth since new.

Have you cleaned and inspected the receiver and bolt for any "grunge" that could be causing problems?
 
#4
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

In custom tight receivers when the receiver and bolt have been coated there is a chance and is very normal for the bolt to stick with this "side to side" movement as you describe.

Does it do it on every one? No because they are all different and if spray coated this to is different.

Will it smooth out over time? Maybe, maybe not, but usually.

There is a reason that BR tight type actions and bolts are polished and it's not because it looks pretty.
 
#6
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

I have not cleaned it yet, but even Costa says that it has been sticky since day one. I would expect a BR rifle to be sticky, but not for a tactical type rifle. I will give it nice cleaning and see if that changes anything.
 
#7
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Irisharrow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine was just like that until I finally wore off some the paint from the bolt....now its butter and can't make it stick if I wanted to. </div></div>


Did you purposely do it, or you mean by over time and continued shooting?
 
#9
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

Mine does the same thing.I have noticed that if put a little bit of down tension on the bolt while chambering a round that it is smoother.I also noticed that if i dont clean the bolt all the time the brass will stick on extraction and i also get miss fires.I dont have either problem with my Remington 700 rifles.Im not happy with these problems because it is not a dependable system.
 
#10
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

Could have been over coated. I would grease it up and start working that bolt! It will loosen up with time and use or send it back in to George and let him hand polish it. I had a PGW action that was way to tight after cerakote, send it back to him and he reworked it, now its cycling like its on bearings.
 
#11
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

Alpha, grease the bolt lugs up, front and sides, and work the bolt in and out trying to make it stick like it's Friday night
wink.gif
The company that makes the receivers for GAP also make mine. Once coated they need a little abuse to slick up.
 
#12
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

You may want to consider some lapping compound in the raceways, just work the bolt back and forth for a while, make sure you clean it out very well afterwards.
 
#13
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alpha, grease the bolt lugs up, front and sides, and work the bolt in and out trying to make it stick like it's Friday night
wink.gif
The company that makes the receivers for GAP also make mine. Once coated they need a little abuse to slick up. </div></div>


Thanks for the pointer. As dumb as it sounds, what type/brand of grease. Would any "gun oil" such as Slick2000 etc will work or something specific?
 
#15
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alpha, grease the bolt lugs up, front and sides, and work the bolt in and out trying to make it stick like it's Friday night
wink.gif
The company that makes the receivers for GAP also make mine. Once coated they need a little abuse to slick up. </div></div>


Thanks for the pointer. As dumb as it sounds, what type/brand of grease. Would any "gun oil" such as Slick2000 etc will work or something specific? </div></div>

Use the Red grease by Shooters Choice or any other high quality gun grease. I dont think oil will cut it.
 
#16
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You may want to consider some lapping compound in the raceways, just work the bolt back and forth for a while, make sure you clean it out very well afterwards. </div></div>

Thats a bitch to get out once the rifle is assembled. I'd skip the lapping compound FWIW.
 
#17
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

I had good results with using Militec while the bolt was tight in the action. After a few hundred rounds the action became smooth as butter, the bolt glides. It is still the smoothest action I have felt to this day.

Now that it is smooth I just lube with a litte quality grease and its good to go.
 
#18
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

I own three of them... They all "stick" when the bolt it all the way back with slight side/upward pressure when new.

After about 1500 rounds they are all nice and smooth. 300 rounds is not that many.

Tikka and rem actions are much looser then a custom set up as randy from R&D notes.
 
#19
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

I've got a coating of Brian Enos' Far Superior Slide Glide on mine and spent some time dry firing. This got everything all slicked up and feeling good.

On the slide glide, I use both light and standard. Both are good high quality greases.
 
#21
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

Agree with a lot of the comments above. My Templar has been smooth as glass since the day I got it. I have noticed with most all actions when closing the bolt that applying a small amount of downward pressure as you push the bolt forward also seems to allow them to slide better and be smoother.
 
#22
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Irisharrow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine was just like that until I finally wore off some the paint from the bolt....now its butter and can't make it stick if I wanted to. </div></div>


Did you purposely do it, or you mean by over time and continued shooting? </div></div>

No, it was done over time from working the bolt.
 
#24
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Agree....I have three GAP Templar's(Cerro'ed) and they all got smoother with use. Glen builds a hell of an action. </div></div>

Got two and same as above !
grin.gif
 
#25
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

Mine does stick allitle also, less so than new however.

One thing that I think exacerbates the problem is a bolt handle with a longer knob,it can add more side load to the bolt.
 
#27
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I think the Templars are Defiance Machine. I don't know if they are tolerranced
different for coatings or not.

http://www.defiancemachine.com/

They are held to .002. </div></div>

Yes they are and no they're not.
 
#28
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

I've had a couple of custom actions. All were tight when new. A little grease on the raceways will make it slide like butter.
 
#30
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sigster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine does the same thing.I have noticed that if put a little bit of down tension on the bolt while chambering a round that it is smoother.I also noticed that if i dont clean the bolt all the time the brass will stick on extraction and i also get miss fires.I dont have either problem with my Remington 700 rifles.Im not happy with these problems because it is not a dependable system.</div></div>

what kind of Mis fires are you referring to, can you explain what it is that happened exactly, i had some issues with mine but i assumed that i cut my primer pockets to deep and or had some bad primers....
 
#32
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

I have a defiance actioned 243. It had a timney trigger and was getting misfires. I talked to Glen and he said the timney trigger can cause misfires on his actions because they result in slightly less sear engagement I think. Anyways, I replaced it with a jewel and have gone through about 250 rounds without a misfire since the change.
 
#34
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a defiance actioned 243. It had a timney trigger and was getting misfires. I talked to Glen and he said the timney trigger can cause misfires on his actions because they result in slightly less sear engagement I think. Anyways, I replaced it with a jewel and have gone through about 250 rounds without a misfire since the change. </div></div>

This is why I worked on a new trigger that Timney now makes for Underground Skunkworks. They're specifically designed for the Model 911 (or any action made by Defiance Machine) and can be ordered direct from Timney (part number 510-U, for Underground Skunkworks). Call Jeff Dodge at Timney if you want/need one. More energy in the firing pin due to proper sear timing/handoff.
 
#35
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

On my rifle it is not the primers or primer pocket cut to deep.I have tried the same rounds with a remmy 700 and had no mis fires.It seems to happen when im also having extraction problems,I cant beleive that the bolt is that sensitive that it needs to be takin apart and cleaned after 1 trip to the range,something is not wright.When i first got the action it would mis fire almost all the time so i pulled it apart and the inside of the bolt was loaded with rust and crud.I cleaned the shit out of it a couple of times and it was better,but there was still the problem of mis fires and extraction.It just pisses me off that i spent that type of money and i cant depend on it to work.
 
#37
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you contacted GAP about the problems? </div></div>


+10000
 
#38
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you contacted GAP about the problems? </div></div>




You must have not read my post. It is in the second paragraph
smile.gif
 
#39
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

I was talking to Sigster who seems to come in here complaining about his action but I haven't seen any posts that he has contacted GAP about the problem.
 
#40
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sigster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It just pisses me off that i spent that type of money and i cant depend on it to work. </div></div>

I'm assuming that you've called George with these problems, and that he told you to Fuck off, right? Thats the only reason I can see you bitching on the Internet vs actually having it fixed.

The Templar action was good enough to qualify for the FBI HRT team, but apparently a plumber thinks it's a bad design, so I'm glad I didn't buy one... Thanks for the heads up.
 
#41
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was talking to Sigster who seems to come in here complaining about his action but I haven't seen any posts that he has contacted GAP about the problem. </div></div>


Sorry Gotcha.


And to make things clear to everybody, this thread was not meant to be bitching session about GAP or this rifle even. It was more information gathering about whether my finding are usual or not and it appears that it is common for such tight tolerance action. George has been gracious enough to contact me and offered to send the rifle to him to make it smooth if i want which is very nice of him. You cant ask for better service than that. I am not even sure i want to part with the rifle hehe
smile.gif


I think i will get some grease and work the action myself and see how it goes, if i dont make it better then i will contact George to make plans to send it back.
 
#44
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

My Gen2 can get sticky if dry. Sticky is not the optimum word just more felt friction. A dab of grease and is slickery as crisco, just over 300 rounds too. Same thing out of the case new, had some dry friction but a quick rag job and a dab of lube slickery it up.

My factory 700 is smooth too with 1400 rounds but you can feel some slop, there is a huge difference in how they feel that I cannot explain, just have to be felt.
 
#45
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

Yes i have contacted them and was told that the crud in the bolt was from the type of cutting oil that was used and that i should clean it.Well i cleaned it many times and i still have the same problem.The man asked for a opinion on the Templar action and i just gave him a hands on opinion.I will contact them again and i hope they will fix it for me.
 
#46
Re: Templar action owners please chime in!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sigster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes i have contacted them and was told that the crud in the bolt was from the type of cutting oil that was used and that i should clean it.Well i cleaned it many times and i still have the same problem.The man asked for a opinion on the Templar action and i just gave him a hands on opinion.I will contact them again and i hope they will fix it for me. </div></div>



George is here on the board, if you contact him i am sure he will take care of any issues.
 
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