Range Report Terminal ballistics of the Hornady ELD-M .308 bullet info? Preferably 10% ballistics gel.

[SPDSNYPR]

Well, since Buddha hates me or whatever if looks like our .308 duty ammo (168gr AMAX) is now being replaced with the 168 gr ELD-M bullet from Hornady.

I get that the AMAX was made to be a match bullet (it's in the name) but it also appeared to perform very well in ballistic gel. Now that the tip has been changed (to increase BC for better performance at long range), what affect will it have on the performance through glass and in gel?

Anyone lucky enough to have murdered some jello with this new round? I'd like to know if it performs similarly before I buy next year's batch of ammo.

I really liked the consistency of the AMAX from year to year for the last however long we've used it. Hopefully the new bullet is as good or better terminal-wise.

 

[Supersubes]

So the Dept. didn't do this testing already in preparation for the switch?




This is not apples to apples, but I recovered several .338 cal 285gr ELD's from a sand bank at 1650 yards. Every one of them was neatly mushroomed, but the cores were all missing. We pulled 250 smks out of the same bank at the same time and those could darn near be loaded and fired a second time, they were in such good shape. Gave me the feeling I wouldnt want to use the 285 on big game for fear of erratic performance.

 

[Rob01]

You might want to check as I thought they were keeping the 168 and 155 AMAX for the TAP line.

 

[BearNaked]

So the Dept. didn't do this testing already in preparation for the switch?




This is not apples to apples, but I recovered several .338 cal 285gr ELD's from a sand bank at 1650 yards. Every one of them was neatly mushroomed, but the cores were all missing. We pulled 250 smks out of the same bank at the same time and those could darn near be loaded and fired a second time, they were in such good shape. Gave me the feeling I wouldnt want to use the 285 on big game for fear of erratic performance.

Just curious to your thinking on this. wouldnt the 285 be better since it mushroomed and the 250 was still a FMJ practically? I want my rounds to mushroom in game so that is why i am a bit confused. I shoot the eld-x for this reason. It's my preference but a rock over the head will still do the same results so its all about placement.

 

[Supersubes]

Just curious to your thinking on this. wouldnt the 285 be better since it mushroomed and the 250 was still a FMJ practically? I want my rounds to mushroom in game so that is why i am a bit confused. I shoot the eld-x for this reason. It's my preference but a rock over the head will still do the same results so its all about placement.

The OP is talking about duty ammo, not hunting ammo. The performance he needs is not just bullet on flesh. Barrier performance is pretty high on the list too I think.

Our duty .223 ammo for our patrol rifles (m4 sized AR) use the 64 gr power point. It was chosen for its very consistent penetration performance through many types or materials. Probably due to the fact that it mushrooms but stays together. This is why the best regarded hunting bullets are a bonded core of one sort or another.


I thought the 285 performance was weird because it was striking at a fairly low velocity, right around the speed of sound, and he cores just about fell out. We recovered several and they were identical.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BearNaked]

10-4. i missed that part of the duty ammo. read right over it.

I love soft points for that reason. i would say its the only bullet that opens up 100% of the time but still providing a lot of penetration.

 

[seanh]

seems that losing the jacket isn't uncommon
https://www.shootersforum.com/handloading-procedures-practices/103817-eld-x-308-testing.html

 

[SPDSNYPR]

Our duty ammo is the Black Hills 168gr AMAX, which black hills is replacing the projectile on, not us. If Hornady is still offering the AMAX, I'll look, but since it's a different loading, we're looking at - at minimum - a re-zero with all of our rifles and possibly a change in our data out to the distance we have available at our range (only goes out to 500). I'm way more interested in barrier penetration and terminal side of the house than how it flies though the air. That is easy enough to deal with (just go shoot it and write down the Data). We don't make our own gel in house. I was hoping someone had a line on it having been tested out there.

 

[Rob01]

Get a hold of the Hornady LE reps and ask them anything you need to know about the 168 AMAX TAP load. I am betting out to 500 the ballistics won't be much off the BH load and if you are happy with the 168 AMAX bullet then it would be worth a call or email.

http://www.hornadyle.com/contact-us

 

[Tspeis]

Our duty ammo is the Black Hills 168gr AMAX, which black hills is replacing the projectile on, not us. If Hornady is still offering the AMAX, I'll look, but since it's a different loading, we're looking at - at minimum - a re-zero with all of our rifles and possibly a change in our data out to the distance we have available at our range (only goes out to 500). I'm way more interested in barrier penetration and terminal side of the house than how it flies though the air. That is easy enough to deal with (just go shoot it and write down the Data). We don't make our own gel in house. I was hoping someone had a line on it having been tested out there.

The AMAX is great for unobstructed open air shots, but there are better options if barrier penetration is required. I don't know how much the construction of the AMAX has changed with the addition of the new tip, but I can't imagine it's significant since it's still not bonded. I don't know if selecting something different is an option for you or if staying with that projectile is mandatory, so I won't start suggesting alternatives unless that's something you want. If you can get someone the rank of Sgt or higher to sign off, the FBI BRF will provide you a CD with all their test data on different loads. It's as simple as contacting them for the request form and returning it to them on a signed department letterhead.

I sent you a message with their SSA's contact info. He may have the gel test data you're looking for on the ELD if you require third party data outside of the manufacturer.


Tspeis

 

[SPDSNYPR]

Our barrier round is the Fed 168gr bonded tip (I think it's called the T2). We run an open air round and a barrier round. I know some have gone to just shooting the bonded tip for everything in our state, but they apparently have more money than we do and/or not as concerned with over-penetration. Luckily, in most of our guns they shoot pretty close to POA of the AMAX round at 100.

I run the range and buy the ammo, but I'm not the final word on ammo. That is a group of guys who are genuinely uninformed about a lot of stuff. I'm just doing my research so I can advise them as well as I can.

I will contact the link you provided. Thank you.

 

[CM^2]

Our duty ammo is the Black Hills 168gr AMAX, which black hills is replacing the projectile on, not us. If Hornady is still offering the AMAX, I'll look, but since it's a different loading, we're looking at - at minimum - a re-zero with all of our rifles and possibly a change in our data out to the distance we have available at our range (only goes out to 500). I'm way more interested in barrier penetration and terminal side of the house than how it flies though the air. That is easy enough to deal with (just go shoot it and write down the Data). We don't make our own gel in house. I was hoping someone had a line on it having been tested out there.

ifintermediate barriers and terminal performance are at issue, I'd strongly consider the Black Hills 180 Accubond. they fly like the 178Amax or just a bit better and burn through intermediate media...including tempered glass...without disintegration. If you can get higher ups to listen, you should get them to try.

 

[Wyfox]

Pm sent

 

[JWG]

Our barrier round is the Fed 168gr bonded tip (I think it's called the T2). We run an open air round and a barrier round. I know some have gone to just shooting the bonded tip for everything in our state, but they apparently have more money than we do and/or not as concerned with over-penetration. Luckily, in most of our guns they shoot pretty close to POA of the AMAX round at 100.

I run the range and buy the ammo, but I'm not the final word on ammo. That is a group of guys who are genuinely uninformed about a lot of stuff. I'm just doing my research so I can advise them as well as I can.

I will contact the link you provided. Thank you.

What kind of issues (if any) is the nickel plating causing with fouling?

 

[SPDSNYPR]

Sorry for my really late response, but I spent a lot of time at the range of late, and haven't been internetting much.

I called Black Hills. They were able to give me data sheets and gel shot pics for both their old AMAX and the new round. They were very helpful - but all they had was bare gel shots. The newer round actually penetrates slightly less in calibrated ballistic gel. I don't know if they want me to distribute the info - but just call them and they'll send it to you. I'm fairly confident this will be a non-issue on the transfer.

JWG - we don't have chrome-lined barrels on most of our guns. But we have changed nothing about our cleaning regimen. We don't take it down to the bare metal like some people do. A few wet and dry patches, and clean carbon off everything. Lube stuff, and go about life. With the T2, we have changed nothing. But honestly, we don't shoot it enough for my liking. Ammo budgets at my PD have died a horrible death, and this is our most expensive non-payload ammo (think gas rounds).

 

[Emouse]

The AMAX is great for unobstructed open air shots, but there are better options if barrier penetration is required. I don't know how much the construction of the AMAX has changed with the addition of the new tip, but I can't imagine it's significant since it's still not bonded. I don't know if selecting something different is an option for you or if staying with that projectile is mandatory, so I won't start suggesting alternatives unless that's something you want. If you can get someone the rank of Sgt or higher to sign off, the FBI BRF will provide you a CD with all their test data on different loads. It's as simple as contacting them for the request form and returning it to them on a signed department letterhead.

I sent you a message with their SSA's contact info. He may have the gel test data you're looking for on the ELD if you require third party data outside of the manufacturer.


Tspeis

Hornady have published openly all the LE test data including ballistic gel performance. If you actually read the factory blurb you will see one is a match bullet the other core bonded for hunting applications. Check out Ballistic Research, Nathan Foster if you want to see actual in flesh performance.